Thread: Anyone tried to run with 4 blues and 3 reds as a normal build?

With Glory souped up (or at least no DPS penalty), has anybody considered traiting 4 blues as an every day build for the defense and extra 1k morale?

The back drop for the question is, for myself, I mostly play in random groupings and, the limited times I'm in the Moors, I just dislike dying. What I've found is if I'm playing with the mains in my kin, I don't need to be concerned about being a glass cannon. But, if I'm grouped with (and that's most of the time) newer players (than me) and the less powerful alts, it makes a difference if I can stay up to finish a fight.

For example, when running Foundry Tier II, with a group of fully geared mains, it didn't matter if we pulled two trolls at the beginning (we basically ignored the snitch), our leader didn't even set target assists or FMs until the final boss room, didn't assign who would take out the adds guarding the levers with the first boss, etc. we just blew through the instance in about 43 minutes. However, just the night before, with a couple of newer players and alts, it took way over 2 hours and we barely completed it. That run would have ended in half of time if, during one of the earlier final boss fights, I just could have survived a big hit by Pendrith (I was the heavy armour on him and had him down to 600 morale.) I realized during that run I didn't retrait from earlier skirm raid runs (I had a lot of useless yellows traited.)

In the Moors, I find I tend to get jumped by creeps (I mainly just do the repeatable quests rather than looking to kill or be killed by creeps) while I'm running around. So, with 4 blues and in Glory, I put on a bubble and having sprint duration as a legacy, I run the creep back to NPCs- then switch to my 2 hander (and switch to fervour if I had the time) and whack the creep. (Funny side bar- I did this to a creep outside Grothum- baited it back to OR. When it rezzed, it tried to jump me a second time at the exact same spot. I did the same thing and it took the bait a second time. Funny- but, hey, it helped my rating.)

So, since RoI, my main day to day (non raid) build is with 4 blues and I start out with Glory on. For example, in the 3 person instances, I'm normally the tank. So, I take the initial hits from the bosses; then, I switch to fervour once I've got the aggro.

I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with different trait combos since the changes were made to Fervour, Ardour and Glory after RoI?

Thanks.

I played around with it a bit but never really liked the lack of dps in glory (yes, you DO less dmg in glory, end of story). Once you have a high enough dps you can basically tank in fervor if you have a cappy with you, though some gear switching might be a good idea. I run 99% in fervor atm and only switch into glory if i'm needed as a tank. But in the end it boils down to what style you prefer, knock them on the head or exchanging blows with them over a period of time... as i said, i prefer to knock them out cold before they knock me out

yes, I played around with 3r/4b for quite some time - and I like it. It's a very flexible spec and not that much away from a more damage oriented spec like 4r/3x or 5r/2y.

The set bonus for 4 blue is quite nice, not only due to the nearly 1k moral boost and crit defence - but also due to Exalted Combatant.

If running with PUG or not that well equipped/played toons I find that build very usefull for going multiple roles within one raid or even within one pull.

4 blues and 3 reds Its a very balanced and solid choice to play pvmp solo against wargpacks increasing survavility a lot with glory and fervour/cb switching

i used to run 4b/2r/1y (the yellow being rend :P) in glory all the time......then i started messing around with traits around 65(ish? i do remember it was in response to fervour getting a higher damage bost so maybe 63-65) and settled on a 3r/1y/3b setup. red traits flurry, crit, and crit mag; blue traits hedge, bracing, second wind; yellow trait rend. with this bracing attack costs 0 fervour (the 3b bonus) so i can do bracing and keep going without having to build back up, bracing heals me a bit more, and ofc i always have imp second wind (5k icpr ftw)

but now im back to 4b/2r/1y except in fervour and this i do like. perma flurry from fervour, the +20% dmg, some extra strikes crit, rend. and i can swap to glory if i need to for the extra 1k morale 2k armor and reduced cds which is nice since my morale and mits kinda suck i think at 4.7k morale, ~46-47% physical mit, but 22.8k physical mastery. plus i can swap some gear and drop to ~18k-19k mastery but have ~8k morale so if i need to offtank in a skraid i can

I did that for a while after the expansion came out. One could some pretty nifty stuff solo, it was a welcome change in the moors, and due to certain circumstances I often was the tank in early skirmraids. One can say that I tried out a lot of builds in-depth.

Now, as a normal build it is just not versatile enough for me. Most red and yellow traits do not lose their essential effect in other stances; many of the tasty blue traits however do. The aggro element of many skills can actually be detrimental; it is only there to make up for the missing threat from damage in other stances and hence does not serve much of a purpose in other stances.

And as Fralin said, in the long run the lacking DPS slows down too much.

i like this build alot since ROI. it offers alot of options, especialy if you also have good runestone for glory.
you can swap to it, pop glory and your invincible. and for the people who think there DPS will drop down whenver they
dont have 7 reds.... well look again at the red line bones. i would say 3 is more than enough. more reds gives you a DPS increase
off i would 5-10%. while with the 4 blues you gain like 300% survival.

Originally Posted by edjepredje

...and for the people who think there DPS will drop down whenver they
dont have 7 reds.... well look again at the red line bones. ...

And the people who know their DPS will drop? What shall they look for?

4 blue and 3 red is how i run 90% time, with criticals and flurry and criticals, to switch from glory to fervour after heroics.

i run 4 blues 3 reds for pvp mostly and for tanking as well. for pve its good for tanking or off tanking cause you can still do great damage and as long as your healer isnt ########. and i've only lost once traited this way 1v1 so yea its pretty good.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

And the people who know their DPS will drop? What shall they look for?

even those kinds of people should see that trading 5-10% dps to gain 300% survivabliaty is worth doing. and they
should go and realise that 90% of the fights in this game are not a DPS race and are not about scoring your max hit.

Originally Posted by edjepredje

even those kinds of people should see that trading 5-10% dps to gain 300% survivabliaty is worth doing. and they
should go and realise that 90% of the fights in this game are not a DPS race and are not about scoring your max hit.

For the people running Orthanc T2, the fights are pretty much all DPS races. Thus my recent conversion to using CBR in raids (in other words, 5r; for me, the other two are yellow traits: Stalwart Blade and Improved Rend).

My survivability comes from using the virtues designed to mitigate against whatever the prevalent damage type is in that particular fight, a decent morale pool, and having Ebbing Ire and Sudden Defense on 1 minute cooldowns.

I'm sure that 4b/3r works fine for the 3- and 6-mans, and maybe even for Orthanc T1, but 4b/3r is not an option for doing Orthanc T2. (And I'd be losing a heck of a lot more than 5-10% DPS, for that matter - ~20% from not being in Fervour, another 10-20% from not being in CBR, lower crit multipliers, fewer and lesser bleeds - so not an option.)

Originally Posted by Lestache

For the people running Orthanc T2, the fights are pretty much all DPS races. Thus my recent conversion to using CBR in raids (in other words, 5r; for me, the other two are yellow traits: Stalwart Blade and Improved Rend).

My survivability comes from using the virtues designed to mitigate against whatever the prevalent damage type is in that particular fight, a decent morale pool, and having Ebbing Ire and Sudden Defense on 1 minute cooldowns.

I'm sure that 4b/3r works fine for the 3- and 6-mans, and maybe even for Orthanc T1, but 4b/3r is not an option for doing Orthanc T2. (And I'd be losing a heck of a lot more than 5-10% DPS, for that matter - ~20% from not being in Fervour, another 10-20% from not being in CBR, lower crit multipliers, fewer and lesser bleeds - so not an option.)

Well first off al you really dont lose more than 5-10%, cause with 3 reds you can actualy just go fervour and it doesnt effect your crit multiplier at all. if you cut out the 1200 crit rating and blood lust you really dont lose much dps at all( ow ya the 4 red line bones , 1 second faster auto fervour gain. come one, who really needs that to pull of there rotation ? )

However i aggree that Ortanc tier 2 bosses are a big dps race, well 3 of them atleast. Its all out ( i useually go 5 r 1y 1b ) on those bosses. Still for the trash, i am sure your minis and guards we be happy to know that IF you trait for it , you can actualy take a mop or 2 on you. and still keep you dps up to kill the rest afther that.

and CBR in a raid? my kins healers will kill me before the DoT does.
ow and what you said about survival, thats basic, i hope every champs has that.

Originally Posted by edjepredje

Well first off al you really dont lose more than 5-10%, cause with 3 reds you can actualy just go fervour and it doesnt effect your crit multiplier at all. if you cut out the 1200 crit rating and blood lust you really dont lose much dps at all( ow ya the 4 red line bones , 1 second faster auto fervour gain. come one, who really needs that to pull of there rotation ? )

However i aggree that Ortanc tier 2 bosses are a big dps race, well 3 of them atleast. Its all out ( i useually go 5 r 1y 1b ) on those bosses. Still for the trash, i am sure your minis and guards we be happy to know that IF you trait for it , you can actualy take a mop or 2 on you. and still keep you dps up to kill the rest afther that.

and CBR in a raid? my kins healers will kill me before the DoT does.
ow and what you said about survival, thats basic, i hope every champs has that.

CBR is absolutely no extra stress on the healers as long as the target you're attacking has Revealing Mark on it - you'll heal the bleed yourself thanks to your damage. So yes - CBR in Orthanc T2: for trash, for Lightning, Fire & Frost, Acid (not really necessary), Shadow, and even Saruman. It's pretty easy to toggle it off if my morale is getting low and the healers are busy elsewhere.

Our Champs end up tanking some of the trash mobs thanks to damage output (and necessity) anyway, and we do so in Fervour without worrying about traiting for tanking. Even the trash pulls in Orthanc are DPS races thanks to adaptation and other mechanics, so we generally favor the "kill it before it kills us" approach. No need to trait for tanking, even partially. In fact, doing so would probably mean that we'd only be tanking for the 10s duration of Champ's Challenge, since the Hunters, RKs, and Burgs would be pulling the DPS aggro.

Originally Posted by Lestache

CBR is absolutely no extra stress on the healers as long as the target you're attacking has Revealing Mark on it - you'll heal the bleed yourself thanks to your damage. So yes - CBR in Orthanc T2: for trash, for Lightning, Fire & Frost, Acid (not really necessary), Shadow, and even Saruman. It's pretty easy to toggle it off if my morale is getting low and the healers are busy elsewhere.

Our Champs end up tanking some of the trash mobs thanks to damage output (and necessity) anyway, and we do so in Fervour without worrying about traiting for tanking. Even the trash pulls in Orthanc are DPS races thanks to adaptation and other mechanics, so we generally favor the "kill it before it kills us" approach. No need to trait for tanking, even partially. In fact, doing so would probably mean that we'd only be tanking for the 10s duration of Champ's Challenge, since the Hunters, RKs, and Burgs would be pulling the DPS aggro.

nothing pulls aggro of a raging blade ^^. but really if you end up tanking them anyway, than i call you naive if you dont use the traits for it. alot heals are wasted there.

but it guess your kin is further in Orthanc than we are. we dont any consistansy on the pulls yet. maybe thats why i run the build. it just offers so much flexibilaty.

Originally Posted by Lestache

I'm sure that 4b/3r works fine for the 3- and 6-mans, and maybe even for Orthanc T1, but 4b/3r is not an option for doing Orthanc T2. (And I'd be losing a heck of a lot more than 5-10% DPS, for that matter - ~20% from not being in Fervour, another 10-20% from not being in CBR, lower crit multipliers, fewer and lesser bleeds - so not an option.)

I like what u say, but all depends what are u doing and who with, it all depends in the group classes and hability, and i'm sure u are not in Orthanc t2 90% of time. Fervour + cbr need good fellows cos a dead champion makes 0 dps. For all other things, glory is pro way to play last 1,5 years, but it's no easy, and i'm sure is faster in dps doing many things cos u don't need to stop to regen. As i say it all depends on hability, gear, fellows and what are you doing.

Originally Posted by edjepredje

even those kinds of people should see that trading 5-10% dps to gain 300% survivabliaty is worth doing. and they
should go and realise that 90% of the fights in this game are not a DPS race and are not about scoring your max hit.

Well, I dont really know how to discuss with you if you continue pulling numbers from thin air. I repeat what I said earlier: Unlike many red traits and red bonuses, blue traits and skills are only really powerful in glory.

The topic is called: "4 blues and 3 reds as a normal build?"
Well, what is a "normal" build? Obviously the one that balances your strengths with your weaknesses. I wrote earlier that I did it after levelling up - then it was true, obviously my gear sucked, and I had to come to terms with the changed skillset on my champ. In this case, blues helped. But it was far from a "normal" situation - being not intimate with skills, and being stuck in bad equipment.

Now, nothing except landscape mobs that are not meant to be soloed is dangerous to me (and except the Isengard trolls, none of this kind can be found in Dunland). Normality is reinstalled. Weaknesses are remedied with gear. I dont need to gimp my traits to achieve the desirable effect - killing anything there is.

The other relevant "normal" build is the one for instancing. I dont need the added active survivability in instances - its not my job to tank "normally". And when I need to be tougher, I rather swap some gear around, because I can carry that with me and dont have to run to a bard. Speaking about the raids in particular, the relation gets even more unbalanced. Once you have a revealing mark, there is little that can make you more survivable than sheer DPS. Its just soo effective. And if the manure hits the fan, it is either enough to pop a bubble or heal, or everything goes to hell so fast that I dont even have the time to switch in glory to actually make use of my trait bonus and skills.

The blue line is WONDERFUL. If I want, i trait blue, equip my tanky stuff and go solo some instances, or Rockwithers or whatever. But that is hardly "normal".

Well I guess I have it bass ackward! I pug pretty much everything too and I like 3b in fervour as a kind of basic way to survive the healer you don't know. I have braced against defeat, time of need and 2nd wind, and 3 b gives the 0 cost bracing attack. I found I can survive pretty much anything unless there's a whole group wipe situation, and although my dps isn't totally uber, it is up there. Just a thought

Originally Posted by GalelValdan

I like what u say, but all depends what are u doing and who with, it all depends in the group classes and hability, and i'm sure u are not in Orthanc t2 90% of time. Fervour + cbr need good fellows cos a dead champion makes 0 dps. For all other things, glory is pro way to play last 1,5 years, but it's no easy, and i'm sure is faster in dps doing many things cos u don't need to stop to regen. As i say it all depends on hability, gear, fellows and what are you doing.

Actually, I pretty much only log in to run Orthanc T2 nowadays, so I really am in there 90% or more of the time. That's neither here nor there, though.

I agree that it depends on what you're doing and who you're running with - as I said when I first posted in this thread, 4b/3r is fine for some stuff, but for the stuff that I do (and the people I do it with) it's not an option.

Vandervahn makes some good points about what constitutes a "normal" build. For me, normal is different than it is for the next person, and that person's normal is different from the next person's, and so forth.

And finally, because I didn't bother to multiquote:

@edjepredje: Raging Blades no longer has a threat component, so it's not a magical aggro grabber like it used to be. Also, as Vandervahn pointed out, as great as the blue traits are, they're mostly only useful while in Glory - and if I'm not main-tanking I don't ever leave Fervour for a second, even in Orthanc, so I just wouldn't get any benefit out of them.

By the way, I'm not saying that people using 4b/3r are doing it wrong or anything like that - I'm just saying that for what I do (and, by extension, what all Champs who are tackling the hardest group content do) it's not as useful or effective as a more DPS-focused build.

Originally Posted by Lestache

@edjepredje: Raging Blades no longer has a threat component, so it's not a magical aggro grabber like it used to be. Also, as Vandervahn pointed out, as great as the blue traits are, they're mostly only useful while in Glory - and if I'm not main-tanking I don't ever leave Fervour for a second, even in Orthanc, so I just wouldn't get any benefit out of them.

do you have any dev statements or whatnot to back this up?

The skill tool tip still claims that it "draws attention to yourself". In practice while tanking it seems to grab threat much better than blade storm even though their damage is similar. At least while i'm traited glory.

I would frankly like to know for sure.

Originally Posted by Lestache

@edjepredje: Raging Blades no longer has a threat component, so it's not a magical aggro grabber like it used to be. Also, as Vandervahn pointed out, as great as the blue traits are, they're mostly only useful while in Glory - and if I'm not main-tanking I don't ever leave Fervour for a second, even in Orthanc, so I just wouldn't get any benefit out of them.

i think you messed it up with Fericius strike here, they removed the aggro componant of that skills, but not from raging blade. its still the magic aggro grabber it used to be, atleast in glory.

but well what i wonder if is you ever tryed it. cause ,in fact ,you can offer yourself as main tank, thats how good glory is right now. And well i know alot of people wont ever do it, cause they will see a bit lower hits on there screen. But than still its worth knowing that you can trait and offer a great flexibilaty in the pulls.

ow well its turning more in a Fervour vs Glory trait now, dont want that. all i wanne say is, they both have there use, its not Fervour all year long. And traiting 4b and 3r is really the best of both.

Originally Posted by DuneBug

do you have any dev statements or whatnot to back this up?

The skill tool tip still claims that it "draws attention to yourself". In practice while tanking it seems to grab threat much better than blade storm even though their damage is similar. At least while i'm traited glory.

I would frankly like to know for sure.

Disregard other comments, here it is straight from the horses mouth:

Many skills that once had bonus threat applied when used have been moved to only generate that bonus threat while in the Glory stance. This should make it more difficult for the Fervour Champion to hold enough threat when grouped with other Champions and high DPS classes. [yeah, how great THAT worked out...]
[...]
Raging Blade: Raging Blade no longer generates high threat in all stances. Instead the stance influences what the skill does. In Ardour, Raging Blade has an increased chance to critically hit. In Fervour, the skill increases the critical magnitude. In Glory, the skill generates high threat.

from: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1379-rise-of-isengard-champion-developer-diary-?lang=en_US

Bascially, forget Turbine skill/trait tooltips. They have a history of having errors in there and not correcting them. Worst offenders are the german and french clients, where many people have no idea *at all* what some of their skills and traits actually do, because the still have the pre-RoI tooltips 6 months after release.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

Disregard other comments, here it is straight from the horses mouth:

from: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/1379-rise-of-isengard-champion-developer-diary-?lang=en_US

Bascially, forget Turbine skill/trait tooltips. They have a history of having errors in there and not correcting them. Worst offenders are the german and french clients, where many people have no idea *at all* what some of their skills and traits actually do, because the still have the pre-RoI tooltips 6 months after release.

Ah, thank you. I had forgotten that it still has its threat component in Glory. The times I've main-tanked stuff in Glory since RoI I've mainly been doing single-target tanking and relying on Reprisal and Wild Attack threat to build aggro.

Originally Posted by Lestache

Actually, I pretty much only log in to run Orthanc T2 nowadays, so I really am in there 90% or more of the time. That's neither here nor there, though.

I agree that it depends on what you're doing and who you're running with - as I said when I first posted in this thread, 4b/3r is fine for some stuff, but for the stuff that I do (and the people I do it with) it's not an option.

Vandervahn makes some good points about what constitutes a "normal" build. For me, normal is different than it is for the next person, and that person's normal is different from the next person's, and so forth.

Ok, so you don't play champion 90% of time, only Orthanc T2, that's all. I'm agree Vander is right, what is normal build? In my case i play with Pro players and with new players in game, new lvl 75 player is a nub and i prefer to have the chance to change tank mode and help more. And i don't care if we havent a tank in the group, i do it.

Originally Posted by GalelValdan

Ok, so you don't play champion 90% of time, only Orthanc T2, that's all. I'm agree Vander is right, what is normal build? In my case i play with Pro players and with new players in game, new lvl 75 player is a nub and i prefer to have the chance to change tank mode and help more. And i don't care if we havent a tank in the group, i do it.

My Champ is my main, I'm just not featuring him in my sig right now. So yeah - I play Champ 90% of the time as well. Maybe you're saying that I don't do other stuff in the game, though - lately that's been true, but since the launch of RoI I spent time leveling, doing some solo instances, some skirmishes, 3- and 6-mans, and Draigoch. For everything but the solo stuff I've found CBR to be very useful, but admittedly I don't really pug anymore. My time is limited and so if I'm going to run an instance, I'd rather do it with kinmates.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Almost seems like you're trying to invalidate my opinion somehow by questioning my experience - I don't know. Guess I really don't care, either - was just confused by the "so you don't play champion 90% of [the] time" quote.

Quick Edit: You're absolutely correct in your earlier post that it does matter who you're running instances with. I guess if I'm trying to make any one point, it's this: if 5r/2y CBR works when running with an experienced, skilled group in the hardest content, then there's no content easier than that (i.e., the rest of the end-game content) where it won't work, meaning that 4b/3r isn't needed for survivability when in a group doing an end-game instance. That is dependent upon the skill of the group, though - I will stipulate that.

Originally Posted by Lestache

My Champ is my main, I'm just not featuring him in my sig right now. So yeah - I play Champ 90% of the time as well. Maybe you're saying that I don't do other stuff in the game, though - lately that's been true, but since the launch of RoI I spent time leveling, doing some solo instances, some skirmishes, 3- and 6-mans, and Draigoch. For everything but the solo stuff I've found CBR to be very useful, but admittedly I don't really pug anymore. My time is limited and so if I'm going to run an instance, I'd rather do it with kinmates.

Anyway, I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Almost seems like you're trying to invalidate my opinion somehow by questioning my experience - I don't know. Guess I really don't care, either - was just confused by the "so you don't play champion 90% of [the] time" quote.

Quick Edit: You're absolutely correct in your earlier post that it does matter who you're running instances with. I guess if I'm trying to make any one point, it's this: if 5r/2y CBR works when running with an experienced, skilled group in the hardest content, then there's no content easier than that (i.e., the rest of the end-game content) where it won't work, meaning that 4b/3r isn't needed for survivability when in a group doing an end-game instance. That is dependent upon the skill of the group, though - I will stipulate that.

10-20% damage is not worth the something like 300 damage a second your gonna be taking. sure if its a dps race like disease OD wing or maybbbeee lightning wing, but as SOON as you take one chain lightning hit or aggro the boss your done unless your healers already healing you (and the last thing your going to do when your at 1/4 health is keep dpsing the boss for the revealing heals). as dps your meant to dps. in nearly every boss fight it doesnt really matter about racing to kill anything and cbr puts too many complications into the equation imo. if you really want to risk wiping your run just for an extra 10-20% then hey whatever floats your boat. i used to love cbr but the 250-300 damage every 1 second really killed its usage out. Im all for trying out new stuff but CBR is 99% pointless to me.

I've lead every end game instance besides orth t2 traited 4 blues 3 red (due to my laziness in retraiting) and did just fine. i may not be hitting 2k brutals like my glass canon set, but on pve mobs ill hit 1,4k -1,6k which is just fine for any instance. the fact is you can trait however you want if your groups good. but finding excuses to make use out of broken legendaries like CBR... just no

Originally Posted by pwl120

In the Moors, I find I tend to get jumped by creeps (I mainly just do the repeatable quests rather than looking to kill or be killed by creeps) while I'm running around. So, with 4 blues and in Glory, I put on a bubble and having sprint duration as a legacy, I run the creep back to NPCs- then switch to my 2 hander (and switch to fervour if I had the time) and whack the creep. (Funny side bar- I did this to a creep outside Grothum- baited it back to OR. When it rezzed, it tried to jump me a second time at the exact same spot. I did the same thing and it took the bait a second time. Funny- but, hey, it helped my rating.)

Goes to the Moors to PvE. Runs single creeps into NPCs and uses a bubble to fight them. Uses 4 blue in an 'everyday' build.

You're so cool.

Thanks to everyone for their input. They are all good valid points I'm learning from.

Here's an actual situation that reflects the idea of a "normal build". Just last night, a kin mini grouped up with me to run Darg T2. The mini picked up a warden. Since the mini knew the ward from the past, we didn't bother to look at his stats. We seem to be having a hard time getting to the final fight (but, it was my first T2 with Darg; so, I thought, well, maybe it's normal.) During the final fight, the mini can't seem to keep the warden up as we're going for the challenge. That's when we noticed the ward only had one piece of raid gear- the rest were the beginning lvl 75 gear (not even the ones from finishing the epics nor the crafted ones.) So, I switched to being the tank. (We still ultimately failed because the mini was concerned about healing me and keep getting too close when Darg throws the big AoE attack. Then, one time, I did get 4 rages from Darg in the corners; but, one of them, didn't damage Darg. The mini didn't see that one of the corners had missed; the ward saw it but didn't say anything. So, I stopped after I got the fourth corner thinking we had finished. Blah.)

Now, I don't mean I run in PuG fail groups as a norm. My kinnies are very good at Foundry T2; I've gotten through 3 wings of ToO (all of the them the first time in the instances.) I haven't been in Lightning nor Saruman's Ring. I've been running Draigorth in the past 7 weeks; but, haven't gotten the wyrmscales roll yet.

In the failed Darg instance I mentioned above, I don't think we would have even made it to the final boss if I hadn't traited 4bs. (Now, on the other hand, maybe if I hadn't been so survivable, we would have noticed the ward's build sooner and not end up spending a couple of hours in the instance.) But, at the end of the day, I got to know one of my kin minis better and end up making friends.

Overall, I think the 4b build and optimally switching between Glory-Fervour enhanced the overall experience of my kinnies as well. I'm new to the current kin I'm in (8 weeks); but, many of them have remarked how the runs we've been in have been "nice and clean." So, I've always been invited to do runs at all levels.

Again, thanks to everyone for your input. Look forward to more in the future.

P.S. Funny stories about the Moors (adding on to a previous post.) A creep jumped me near Grothum. I threw on a bubble and ran it back to OR- picked up the renown for a solo kill. I went back to Grothum and the same creep jumped me again. So, I ran him back to OR and he died for a second time. Another time, I was in Hoarhollow and there was a couple of creeps trying to do quests. I was going to leave them alone; but, one of the creeps wanted to get me. I ran him back into the NPCs. The other creep came in to help the first creep. I threw on my bubbles at first; but, then, I switched to my 2H + Fervour when I saw them starting go down. By the time they realized they were talking big damage- too late- they both died. It is fun having the Glory extra defense and morale.

Originally Posted by klover307

10-20% damage is not worth the something like 300 damage a second your gonna be taking.

I am pretty sure there is a simple math Thunder put in some forums before; could not really recollect which one.
In a raid siutation (all buffs included); lets say a decent built CBR champion is doing 1500dps over the course of fight. A well built will do more.

If you have 15% revealing; you get 225 back (considering only 1500 dps). If you have mini in your group you are anyways getting the group heal dots which should atleast heal you for 60 per second (just taking the minimum to counteract our 278 dot). With these two; One does not specifically need any more heals targeted to them unless they take damage. If its AoE damage; healers anyways have to concentrate healing all irrespective of whether you are in CBR or not. If its because of aggro; seriously we are doing a lot of damage or have a decent build tank who still needs to get better; so maybe trait At the ready and do 'more' ebbs than usual.
Don't have cappy for revealing? Dont bother switching to CBR unless you have a dedicated healer or a healer whom you know can keep you up even without a cappy. Heck I will still go CBR if I have an RK who maintains t3 writ on me along with group heals. Its a toggle; if you fall low; turn it off and then come back when all are set.

Not really sure what makes it a broken legendary. Its the best imo that's available to us so far with the healing penalty removed.

Originally Posted by klover307

10-20% damage is not worth the something like 300 damage a second your gonna be taking. sure if its a dps race like disease OD wing or maybbbeee lightning wing, but as SOON as you take one chain lightning hit or aggro the boss your done unless your healers already healing you (and the last thing your going to do when your at 1/4 health is keep dpsing the boss for the revealing heals). as dps your meant to dps. in nearly every boss fight it doesnt really matter about racing to kill anything and cbr puts too many complications into the equation imo. if you really want to risk wiping your run just for an extra 10-20% then hey whatever floats your boat. i used to love cbr but the 250-300 damage every 1 second really killed its usage out. Im all for trying out new stuff but CBR is 99% pointless to me.

I've lead every end game instance besides orth t2 traited 4 blues 3 red (due to my laziness in retraiting) and did just fine. i may not be hitting 2k brutals like my glass canon set, but on pve mobs ill hit 1,4k -1,6k which is just fine for any instance. the fact is you can trait however you want if your groups good. but finding excuses to make use out of broken legendaries like CBR... just no

I thought about writing up a lengthy response to this, but Lestache and the following post summed up everything. All you need to make CBR great is a Captain's Revealing Mark. Done, you just got yourself a 10-20% dps increase. Every wing in Orthanc has a serious dps race component.

Originally Posted by vpram86

I am pretty sure there is a simple math Thunder put in some forums before; could not really recollect which one.
In a raid siutation (all buffs included); lets say a decent built CBR champion is doing 1500dps over the course of fight. A well built will do more.

If you have 15% revealing; you get 225 back (considering only 1500 dps). If you have mini in your group you are anyways getting the group heal dots which should atleast heal you for 60 per second (just taking the minimum to counteract our 278 dot). With these two; One does not specifically need any more heals targeted to them unless they take damage. If its AoE damage; healers anyways have to concentrate healing all irrespective of whether you are in CBR or not. If its because of aggro; seriously we are doing a lot of damage or have a decent build tank who still needs to get better; so maybe trait At the ready and do 'more' ebbs than usual.
Don't have cappy for revealing? Dont bother switching to CBR unless you have a dedicated healer or a healer whom you know can keep you up even without a cappy. Heck I will still go CBR if I have an RK who maintains t3 writ on me along with group heals. Its a toggle; if you fall low; turn it off and then come back when all are set.

Not really sure what makes it a broken legendary. Its the best imo that's available to us so far with the healing penalty removed.

QFT +rep

Originally Posted by pwl120

I went to the Moors one time and, once I realised that the Glory build made facerolling any creep possible, I then went out of my way to exploit this tremendous imbalance ontop of using NPCs in order to form anecdotal evidence for why this build is obviously the bestest for everyday play.

Sorry, had to fix that one for you.