Thread: U6 warg changes bring worry, hope.

seeing the new warg changes i could swear that they are all/mostly for killing hunters. interrupts, induction and range debuffs.... the new inescapable root sound like its gonna be fun... for the wargs.

if hunters stay relevantly in the same place as now with u6.... hunters will go from underpowered to totally warg food.

i *think* the devs have more sense.

i hope that the devs will give as much or more attention to the hunter class as warg.

looking for yellow line to become a survival - for - damage line with something to counter the massive increase in warg effectiveness against hunter.

why do i say hope in the title?
because if the wargs need all these anti-hunter skills... shows that hunter class may get a pretty big revamp that needs a appropriate changes to creeps.


or nothing could happen.... i don't bring my hopes to high...

ps: im not saying wargs are op or dont need this up-grade... they by all means do. but hunters first please.

Originally Posted by Lendas

seeing the new warg changes i could swear that they are all/mostly for killing hunters. interrupts, induction and range debuffs.... the new inescapable root sound like its gonna be fun... for the wargs.

if hunters stay relevantly in the same place as now with u6.... hunters will go from underpowered to totally warg food.

i *think* the devs have more sense.

i hope that the devs will give as much or more attention to the hunter class as warg.

looking for yellow line to become a survival - for - damage line with something to counter the massive increase in warg effectiveness against hunter.

why do i say hope in the title?
because if the wargs need all these anti-hunter skills... shows that hunter class may get a pretty big revamp that needs a appropriate changes to creeps.


or nothing could happen.... i don't bring my hopes to high...

ps: im not saying wargs are op or dont need this up-grade... they by all means do. but hunters first please.

atm wargs are very easy to beat in spars for hunters because wargs are squishy when it comes to hunter dps and I guess they needed some love.
We could need some more survivebilety in the fights tho, like a skill that could give us a proper parry/evade buff for a short duration or something else. Especially after U6 when wargs will seek revenge on freeps.
And guess who will be their first target :P

Let me preface by saying I play a warg on creepside, have rk, guard, burg and an upcoming hunter on freepside. The warg updates (if they all go through) don’t bode well for hunters, Im openly conceding that as a warg player. However lets not loose sight of the major advantage you do have and that’s DPS. While I agree more survivability for a hunter is warranted for the moors like these (ive suggested these elsewhere on the forums)

1. Desperate flight usable in the moors (as long as the cool down stays at 30min) that’s your get out of warg pack free card

2. Press onward: 60% base morale and power heal, induction cannot be interrupted. This is your solo survival skill and should allow you to compete with 1v1 situations out in the moors.


Wargs need a boost. R8 wargs that have a mixed build are 11500 morale. Im seeing hunters with 8k morale and 1800k agility critting 5k+. So no not hunters first, wargs and hunters at the same time.

You need less then I do, but you need something. The 2 things I proposed should be easy to implement and you really shouldn’t need any more then this. Not every encounter is me pouncing you from stealth, you’re hitting me from range an awful lot too.

Originally Posted by grapez

And guess who will be their first target :P

Champions

Originally Posted by Rhedry

Champions

Cant remember reading anything about "improved seeking claws" in Orion's post so think wargs will still be chimp food.

as i always say give hunter a skimish/suravable stance but cut there dps by half sounds fair to me ..my freind got one shotted bye HS yesterday you cant have both guys...unless your a mini/champ

ps hobbit hunters can faint and DF still....ok all you hunters get off the horses camo up track if i pounce you use a heath pot use parry skills use traps most hunter get scared and dont even fight back they try to run..use your slows..if you think hunters cant fight/solo well talk to the high ranked hunters heck wulf on landy and blow me to smithers is 5 seconds max..dont like that style stack vit. moral..tac.. mits..

Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos

as i always say give hunter a skimish/suravable stance but cut there dps by half sounds fair to me ..my freind got one shotted bye HS yesterday you cant have both guys...unless your a mini/champ

A grammar Nazi would have a heart attack right now

& by half??.... lol ###
DPS is our only role, our secondary is broken

As for HS, the only way a Hunter can hit 10k+ is:

Traited specifically for it (Which weakens everything else)
Prepares for 5-10 seconds
Then gets an extremely lucky Devastate hit

But nice try

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Not every encounter is me pouncing you from stealth, you’re hitting me from range an awful lot too.

When this happens it almost invariably results in at least one of two things. HIPS and/or sprint. Sprint can be dealt with (slightly), Rain of Thorns will hold a greeny for long enough, but any decent warg will pot out before it matters. HIPS guarantee's a wargs escape from a solo hunter. By the time the hunter drops combat to track they have no hope of catching the warg.

The only exceptions to these cases are when either the warg doesn't know what they're doing, or HIPS/Sprint is on CD, 5/10min CDs allow good wargs to always have at least one available.

Due to above reasons I almost never bother tracking halfway decent wargs unless I merely want them to go away.

Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos

ps hobbit hunters can faint and DF still....ok all you hunters get off the horses camo up track if i pounce you use a heath pot use parry skills use traps most hunter get scared and dont even fight back they try to run..use your slows..if you think hunters cant fight/solo well talk to the high ranked hunters heck wulf on landy and blow me to smithers is 5 seconds max..dont like that style stack vit. moral..tac.. mits..

Who uses heightened senses? It's the wrong traitline and takes up a spot for useful traits? Parry skills? Nobody B/P/Es anymore, everybody is running around with 5k finesse, anyways the agile rejoinder heal you are probably referring to is a hot of 116 ticking 4 times. Traps? Firstly you can not use them in-combat unless they are crafted, secondly crafted traps any creep will just pot out of. Yeah wargs are really ####ed when caught out of stealth, but the mitigation buff really helped when we get punced.
If we stack anything like vit and mits it will never help at all, since our dmg wil drop by more than our mits rise. We'll get nowhere in the range of champs and guards but dmg output suffers greatly.
Wargs needed the buff though, they were still quite easy, yet on my server they are usually R15 storebought so that evens it all out.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Wargs need a boost. R8 wargs that have a mixed build are 11500 morale. Im seeing hunters with 8k morale and 1800k agility critting 5k+. So no not hunters first, wargs and hunters at the same time.

GAH. Im gonna fight ya on this one mate. Sorry, but I just can't stand when people over exaggerate on forums, a dev might read it and think "well, one person said this! It's all good!"
To be frank, there is NO build out there where hunters can achieve 1.8k Agil and 8k morale unbuffed. Doesn't exist. Believe me, I've looked long and hard thru many kinds of gear. Best you're gonna get at 1.8k Agil is 4k mits and 6.7kish morale. Don't compare raid buffed hunters to solo wargs, it's not being fair to both classes

Originally Posted by Bond007

GAH. Im gonna fight ya on this one mate. Sorry, but I just can't stand when people over exaggerate on forums, a dev might read it and think "well, one person said this! It's all good!"
To be frank, there is NO build out there where hunters can achieve 1.8k Agil and 8k morale unbuffed. Doesn't exist. Believe me, I've looked long and hard thru many kinds of gear. Best you're gonna get at 1.8k Agil is 4k mits and 6.7kish morale. Don't compare raid buffed hunters to solo wargs, it's not being fair to both classes

7.3k Morale 4600 Tact. 3600 Phys. Mits and 1826 Agility. Still missing a few things too.

Originally Posted by Bond007

GAH. Im gonna fight ya on this one mate. Sorry, but I just can't stand when people over exaggerate on forums, a dev might read it and think "well, one person said this! It's all good!"
To be frank, there is NO build out there where hunters can achieve 1.8k Agil and 8k morale unbuffed. Doesn't exist. Believe me, I've looked long and hard thru many kinds of gear. Best you're gonna get at 1.8k Agil is 4k mits and 6.7kish morale. Don't compare raid buffed hunters to solo wargs, it's not being fair to both classes

And same with me on the post above:

7.7k Morale
1,980 Agility
4,613 Physical Mitigation
5,142 Tactical Mitigation
(Un-buffed)
Source: http://my.lotro.com/home/character/1...4362774593177/

Originally Posted by zalladi

And same with me on the post above:

7.7k Morale
1,980 Agility
4,613 Physical Mitigation
5,142 Tactical Mitigation
(Un-buffed)
Source: http://my.lotro.com/home/character/1...4362774593177/

What's your physical mastery at, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious because I have practically the same gear stat-wise but with it equipped I'm only at a little over 6k morale unbuffed (I don't do PVMP though so I almost always choose phys. mastery/crit over morale or vit). Also where are those mitigations coming from, relics?

Three wild wargs appears!
Theandil using peneshot spam!
ITS VERY EFFECTIVE!

you have earned 131 renown points
you have earned 141 renown points
you have earned 139 renown points

I dont see any problems with wargs.
But maybe after U6 will be fights againts wargs more interesting. From point of hunter I agree with this wargs changes.

Originally Posted by Sephollos

What's your physical mastery at, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious because I have practically the same gear stat-wise but with it equipped I'm only at a little over 6k morale unbuffed (I don't do PVMP though so I almost always choose phys. mastery/crit over morale or vit). Also where are those mitigations coming from, relics?

^ This is the kinda thing I would've asked too. Are you slotting morale/power relics instead of PM/crit in your LIs? Because slotting those boosts your morale way up there, but takes a decent dip out of your damage output... My point was less of a raw agil kinda thing and more of a damage/morale comparison with gear. In response to Thorgrum, I was more concerned about the "5k crit" sorta thing with "8k morale".

Kinda backing up to cover up my failpost, I know, but... I was just about .7k off on mits/morale. For me, that doesn't make much of a difference in the moors, one lucky crit and that's negated. On the other hand, you're losing a good deal of your dps. Doesn't matter much if you're at 11k morale and 8k hits (yes, a possible build) if your PM is at 19k and crit is at 7.5k. Don't think 5k crits are gonna pop very often, if at all, in those builds

Originally Posted by Sephollos

What's your physical mastery at, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious because I have practically the same gear stat-wise but with it equipped I'm only at a little over 6k morale unbuffed (I don't do PVMP though so I almost always choose phys. mastery/crit over morale or vit). Also where are those mitigations coming from, relics?

My physical mastery is only 25k with this main build, and it is still enough to drain aggro from weekly raids.
The relics give me the morale, and the mitigation comes from the armour and PvP rings.
If I used mastery relics, I would annoy too many people in raids.

<shrugs> the only alternative for my Hunter, as I see it, will be to raid up after U6. I really made an earnest attempt at running around solo .. and no, not the "solo play" as some define it as stealth-ing up outside a rez circle (or at Gramsfoot) waiting for a creep to show up. Solo means you are running around checking bb, hh, stops at stab/wtab, etc. Lost way more than I won .. but on occasion got lucky with the rng on my crits. When U6 hits... hunter will be raid only ... and I'll have to bring my champ out or finish leveling-up one of the myriad alts I've been working on for any sort of random 1v1 opportunity.

Originally Posted by Theandil

Three wild wargs appears!
Theandil using peneshot spam!
ITS VERY EFFECTIVE!

you have earned 131 renown points
you have earned 141 renown points
you have earned 139 renown points

On the open battlefield... doubtful.

Exploiting on one the bridge pillars or pewpewing from the 2nd floor of a Keep, sure. And killing greenies isn't the same as killing Wargs who know what they're doing... you should know that, seeing as you play one.

Fear not Huntards... you won't be targeted by the 'new' Warg anymore then you already are.. well, maybe by Wargs that despise your class or don't enjoy a real challenge.

Like I said, Chimps will probably be 1st on the menu when it comes to testing out Topple.

Originally Posted by Rhedry

On the open battlefield... doubtful.

Solo roaming with hunter is easy. If you know your class. You can kill everything. No with 100% success cuz one bad move you end with die. But you can kill about 2 sometime 3 creeps, when you use very good combinated rotation and Skill usage. Atm I have big problems kill WL, cuz fight is too long. And in few mins have big focus issues.

//edit (just want to add)
I have atm about 8500 unbuffed morale. So I have little more chances stands in fights.

Originally Posted by Rhedry

Exploiting on one the bridge pillars or pewpewing from the 2nd floor of a Keep, sure. And killing greenies isn't the same as killing Wargs who know what they're doing... you should know that, seeing as you play one.

Srsly, who need exploting bridge, or pewpew when hunter is now very good "OP" class. (in right hands ofc)

Originally Posted by Rhedry

Fear not Huntards... you won't be targeted by the 'new' Warg anymore then you already are.. well, maybe by Wargs that despise your class or don't enjoy a real challenge.

sorry I think low rank wargs are more braves then high ranks. But its my opinion only.

Originally Posted by Theandil

Solo roaming with hunter is easy. If you know your class. You can kill everything. No with 100% success cuz one bad move you end with die. But you can kill about 2 sometime 3 creeps, when you use very good combinated rotation and Skill usage. Atm I have big problems kill WL, cuz fight is too long. And in few mins have big focus issues.

//edit (just want to add)
I have atm about 8500 unbuffed morale. So I have little more chances stands in fights.



Srsly, who need exploting bridge, or pewpew when hunter is now very good "OP" class. (in right hands ofc)



sorry I think low rank wargs are more braves then high ranks. But its my opinion only.

If 3 decent Wargs are running directly at a Hunter then that Hunter is DEAD... I don't care who the Hunter is. And please don't mistake stupidity for bravery, just sayin.

But I will agree that a fully focused Hunter who burns hot and spams IPS is extremely lethal and effective against a Warg.. but not impossible to take down solo.

But staying on topic... I honestly wouldn't worry about you guys (and gals) becoming dog food out there after U6. Hunters have already "gotten theirs" after they lost in-combat DF so I see no reason why they would be singled out before any of the other classes... unless they play like a d-canoe and deserve it.

Chimps and Menstrels are the current OP classes in need of a good reality check... hopefully Wargs and Weavers will be the ones to end their god moding. But without seeing any numbers first, it's all just hearsay.