Thread: Please - no more "kill 10 of this critter/humanoid" or "scout these points" 'quests'

I would like to hold forth Evendim as an example of an area that was actually interesting and fairly immersive. As a counterpoint to that, we have Dunland, which is not interesting, nor very immersive and involves a lot of mob number killing.

Please, put some effort into the area.

I have played since beta and purchased every expansion in advance, as have my friends, but after the last couple we're all now wondering if we should bother with Rohan, which is a shocking thing for us to contemplate since we're all huge Tolkien fans.

We have not really felt like we were part of the actual 'story' since pre-Moria. The quality of the quests has gone downhill, for our way of playing the game. We only play because it is Middle Earth and used to stay true to Tolkien's vision. I know the devs have to make a 'game', but some of their decisions have left us cold. The new area feels more like a grind, than a game. It's just not that much fun.

I am sure there will be plenty of people to say how great Moria, Lothlorien, Mirkwood and Dunland were, but we're not in that group. The new skirmishes are poor too - we still run the 'starter area' ones much more than the new ones, because they're actually less boring.

Run here, come back, return and kill stuff, come back, return and destroy stuff, come back, return and destroy more stuff, come back, return and kill a named mob or two, booooring. (Dimrill Dale and other areas). There was a little of that near the end of Evendim, but it was not as prominent as in later areas.

Please, try to be creative and make the game fun again - I find I'm only logging lower level characters in now as I can't stand going through that boring higher level content any more and a free 'warhorse' with maybe a pretty cloak is not going to get me, or my friends, to part with our money. RoI showed us your current direction and it is not one we wish to travel along...

To anyone who enjoys the content since Moria - good for you, have a great day in the game, but don't bother trying to talk it up for us - different playstyles, different opinions...

I love Enendim because questing there is very streamlined, but I fail to see how it is that different from newer regions when it comes to quest.
I remember doing quite a bit of kill X quest ore find this spot quests in the region.
On top of that most questhubs follow the same patern:

GO Talk to NPC X
NPC X tells you "Finish quests for NPC Y,Z,A"
Finishes quests for NPC Y,Z,A.
Talk to NPC X
NPC X Tells you "Finish quests for NPC Y,Z,A"
Finish quests
Talk to NPC X
NPC X sends you to the next hub.


Personlly I quite liked Dunland, because each smaller region had a little storyline.
I understand that you don't like the "new" content, but I doubt it's only because of the way quests play out.

Please provide some food suggestions of new types of quests they could use.

Yes, I find it remarkable that you bring up Evendim as an example of an area with less kill X mobs or run an errand there and back again. While I did enjoy Evendim very much, it's a nice region, the quests per se aren't very different from anywhere else. Perhaps slightly more streamlined quest hubs and some interesting twists to quests but other than that, pretty much the same quests as anywhere else.

There aren't a lot of ways to create quests in reality. Gather X items or kill X mobs has been pretty much standard in most MMOs since the dawn of time. Even before the dawn of time, in the good old P'n'P-RPG-days, adventuring was pretty much based on going out killing a lot of mobs, gathering a lot of items. As one grew older though, other aspects of those games became more interesting though but those aspects would be hard to implement in a game based on gaining experience and items in the way most MMOs work.

I can guarantee there will be same types of quests in Rohan. It is basic MMO design: the type of quests is limited by design: "Kill N of X", "Kill one named X", "Gather N of X", "Find an X", "Visit several locations", "Talk to X", "Protect X from attacks", with a few riddles here and there. It's funny that you mentioned Evendim, because alongside with Enedwaith and Dunland is has the most innovative questing to date: Phasing, Mobile Questgivers, Auto-Completing quests etc. Rohan will feature Mounted Combat and Warbands, so we can look for some new gameplay too. The rest is all down to story: and Dunland quests were in fact specifically memorable because each zone had its own specific story, which all neatly tied together - and I loved that.

Sounds more like a generic burnout on MMOs than an issue with the questing really.. Every MMO has done it this way since the beginning, and no matter how you mask it it'll always be the same grind with a different twist. Why? Longevity, and server stress. Putting such grindy quests in equals more playtime, which(for paying customers) equals more time spent they need to cough up money for. And the server stress issue, if we're going with personal storylines and scripted events to the max like certain single player games do(although those are oft plagued with the same grind quests along with the story quests) it will cause a MASSIVE strain on the servers if you need to handle all this for aprox. 2000+ players, and I doubt Turbine only has 2000 active and playing accounts right now.. It's a lot more.

While I agree grinding can be dull, I often simply hop onto a voice chat with people and joke away, listen my music or watch TV in the meanwhile. Sure, the grind is still there.. But it's a lot less tedious when you have some form of distraction around.

Originally Posted by Malachi108

I can guarantee there will be same types of quests in Rohan. It is basic MMO design: the type of quests is limited by design: "Kill N of X", "Kill one named X", "Gather N of X", "Find an X", "Visit several locations", "Talk to X", "Protect X from attacks", with a few riddles here and there. It's funny that you mentioned Evendim, because alongside with Enedwaith and Dunland is has the most innovative questing to date: Phasing, Mobile Questgivers, Auto-Completing quests etc. Rohan will feature Mounted Combat and Warbands, so we can look for some new gameplay too. The rest is all down to story: and Dunland quests were in fact specifically memorable because each zone had its own specific story, which all neatly tied together - and I loved that.

Your absolutely correct. No matter what MMO I have played, the quests are always the same with very little difference. What makes or breaks an MMO is the story and we have a classic. I doubt that it is much different with the newer games like TOR etc. I doubt that this will change until someone comes up with a new and innovative quest paradigm. Don't hold your breath waiting for it though.

I'm not a big fan of grinding either, not sure who is actually, but the newer areas, especially Dunland was very enjoyable for me. I do find myself grabbing my lower level alts and enjoying the older areas more these days, but that's simply because I finished the main end game quests and don't like the grind for items that's left until Rohan launches As far as content goes, I'm not sure what you would have left if you took away the "go see npc over there and they'll send you to kill, discover, collect, etc. something that moves you thru the area? Perhaps drinking at the Prancing Pony, which I'm sure Ole Barliman wouldn't mind I think the developers are trying to give us a storyline in the content that not only appeals to Tolkien fans, but also provides the opportunity to have fun and enjoy this game as we head to Mordor. I'm looking forward to the day when I can ride up to the Black gate and yell out..."Can Sauron come out to play!"

If you look at quests in this game the vast majority are a version of one of the following:
Gather some number of X material
Talk to X NPC
Kill some number of X
Go place items at/scout these points and report back

There's no getting away from this at the moment especially in an MMO where certain parts of the story are designed as if you are the only player who will ever do this and other parts are designed to involve the aid of additional individuals. The writing of the quests is really the only thing that separates them, and if you don't read the quests on your first time through you are guaranteed to miss out on a lot of content and lose the feeling of necessity to doing these quests and that you aid people of Middle Earth.

Certain other quest designs like persuading an individual with interactive dialogue, crafting items for an individual based on your profession, defending a position for a certain amount of time, quests where you are doomed to fail and are forced to retreat, role specific quests which have different objectives (tanks need to survive for a certain amount of time, DPS kill a certain amount of mobs per second, healers need to heal wounded soldiers, CC keep dangerous mobs locked down for certain amounts of time).

One other hard thing about quests is when they are not at level cap it is very hard to motivate players to do group quests which limits your pool of available quest types.

Originally Posted by Hrefntor

but some of their decisions have left us cold. The new area feels more like a grind, than a game. It's just not that much fun.

... we still run the 'starter area' ones much more than the new ones, because they're actually less boring.

Run here, come back, return and kill stuff, come back, return and destroy stuff, come back, return and destroy more stuff, come back, return and kill a named mob or two, booooring. (Dimrill Dale and other areas). There was a little of that near the end of Evendim, but it was not as prominent as in later areas.

Please, try to be creative and make the game fun again - I find I'm only logging lower level characters in now as I can't stand going through that boring higher level content any more and

...RoI showed us your current direction and it is not one we wish to travel along...

To anyone who enjoys the content since Moria - good for you, have a great day in the game, but don't bother trying to talk it up for us - different playstyles, different opinions...

I agree with you

everyone who cant see the difference between the old-style they did the quest and areas and the Dunland style of
doinf the quests is just trolling or denying the facts or dont know much about Lotro ...

the difference and lack of creativity in Dunland is so massive it strikes you in the face right at the beginning...

Lotro was always an mmo that disguised the 'get-X/kill-Y' formula with questwriting or sending you through
remarkable areas etc.

I am just shocked how little thos F2P-people expect from there 'game' ...

boy, if you chat, listen to music or watch tv to make you forget about the grind ...
wouldnt it make any difference to just shut off the game and only chat, listen and watch ?

best regards

There are only 3 types of quests.

The treasure hunt - Go find X, Y and Z (item, place or person)
The slayer - Go kill X, Y and Z
The escort - Protect X, Y and Z

Every single quest in the game will just be a variation of the above 3. Why? It's easy, it requires simple coding and simple completion criteria, it also means quests can easily follow a very linear progression where there's no continuity issues.

Want more varied quests? Go play some SP RPGs.

Nobody has yet provided a specific example or five of how Evendim quests were so much more varied than Dunland. Nor has anyone provided specific examples of quest types that would make Rohan so much better than Dunland.

Assertions are useless without backing evidence.

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Nobody has yet provided a specific example or five of how Evendim quests were so much more varied than Dunland. Nor has anyone provided specific examples of quest types that would make Rohan so much better than Dunland.

Assertions are useless without backing evidence.

They weren't more varied, they are exactly the same.

As for quest ideas:
Instead of go kill 15 bandits. The quest could go, we are having trouble with some bandits can you go a deal with them. Then you have a choice of how you 'deal' with them. Do you just go in and kill them, do you try and bribe or persuade them to leave or do you try to help them acquire what they want so they leave the original group alone. Where your choice open up different quest chains.

Another idea is riddles, and not like the riddles in moria where it's just find the appropriate area then keep clicking on the plaques till the quest completes, but ones where wrong answers have consequences and different loot.

Races.

In general just give my characters more control on how I deal with problems and change loots and quest chain progression based on how those quests are completed.

The problem is: you can't create another questline.
Everything in the game is dealing with "kill x" or "scout these points".

You can only merge more quests in one questline, but it's the same

Tell me some examples of quests, with have nothing to do with "kill X" or "scout point x" or "speak to x" ...

Originally Posted by Hecki

You can only merge more quests in one questline, but it's the same

I would at least be happy with this. I get tired of running half way across the map to kill some mobs only to be sent back out to then kill their boss on the follow up quest.

Careful what you ask for. I would much rather be bored and do kill/collect quests than be angry while doing protect stupid npc from dying quests.

The worse thing about questing in Dunland was the fact that whole questlines started at one single NPC ... If you somehow managed to miss him: Good luck
Bonevales and Trum Dreng are perfect examples for that.

On the other hand we have questhubs like Starkmoors: Riding horses back and collecting hay for them sounds rather dull, but once the cutscene is over, we actually see those three horses in the paddock and dunlanders feeding them with the hay we found. That was truely amazing design.

Actually you can tell when Dunland starts to become very tedious ... The answer is Rohan.
Every single quest with Theodreds riders kinda goes like this:

"Hello <insert name here> mind if you check on our three scouts?"
"Hi, I'm Scout #1! Complete my three dull quests and move on to scout #2 to do the same things again.
Oh and please don't mute the game while I'm telling you that "the minions of Sauron are getting stronger in these lands" each and every time you accept or turn in a quest, ok?

It really looks somebody ran out of ideas and then filled a whole area with "talk to the scout" quests.

Once you get closer to Isengard though, questing gets more interesting and just the way I would have expected it to be from the start (except maybe for this damned cave I had to clear six times, because they just kept sending me down there)

Originally Posted by Korgain

They weren't more varied, they are exactly the same.

As for quest ideas:
Instead of go kill 15 bandits. The quest could go, we are having trouble with some bandits can you go a deal with them. Then you have a choice of how you 'deal' with them. Do you just go in and kill them, do you try and bribe or persuade them to leave or do you try to help them acquire what they want so they leave the original group alone. Where your choice open up different quest chains.

Another idea is riddles, and not like the riddles in moria where it's just find the appropriate area then keep clicking on the plaques till the quest completes, but ones where wrong answers have consequences and different loot.

Races.

In general just give my characters more control on how I deal with problems and change loots and quest chain progression based on how those quests are completed.

The idea of "choose your own adventure" would be cool, but I think unworkable on such a gigantic live game (as Mr. Juicebox said, above). And what would the consequences be to the player? There isn't any provision in the story line for chaotic, neutral, or lawful, which is what most consequences would revolve around.

I like your idea of riddles or puzzles that can disappear (or have a long timer) if you guess incorrectly. Even better would be puzzles that could kill you if you mess it up.

Races would be interesting, too, if we ran them against other players. That's something that doesn't have to be coded, though. It's something we can organize ourselves. If you did them in the Shire, it would practically be like a steeplechase.

Originally Posted by Taiaroa

Races would be interesting, too, if we ran them against other players. That's something that doesn't have to be coded, though. It's something we can organize ourselves. If you did them in the Shire, it would practically be like a steeplechase.

Player generated races are the only way races could work, and even then it's going to be troublesome due to lag and whatnot. Turbine tried having players race against each other in the original festival races. That turned out extremely badly. They tried and tried to fix the problems and never could, which is why the festival races are against the clock now. Heck, if they can't consistently get a player synched with their mount - without the player having to do it - I don't see player v player races ever happening.

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Assertions are useless without backing evidence.

Oh yeah? Where's your evidence of this?

But seriously, about the only thing in Evendim I can think of that is different for areas before it is the riddle markers. That gets re-used in Moria, so it's not a singular occurrence. Other than that, everything in Evendim is a "fetch-carry" or "kill that" quest.

I think the OP's thread title is a bit misleading, as I get the impression that the problem is not with the nature of the quest goals, but the narrative surrounding them. In that vein, I'll agree that we've seen some very repetitive design involving story threads that are fairly uninspired, and I can certainly see how a "lore-fan" would find some of these quest lines to be dull and non-immersive. For my part, I think the best job that's been done on quest threads post-Moria was Mirkwood, but that's just personal opinion.

I don't think anyone really expects the devs to come up with a new form of solo quest that breaks significantly from the holy triumvirate of questing: "kill it", "go to it", and "protect it." That said, I think investing some time in making sure the story lines are fresh, interesting, and vaguely Tolkeinian would be appreciated by many players. As well, Dunland and the ROI areas have also been visually bland as well (Orthanc & the Ring perhaps being an exception imo). Needless to say, the devs have their work cut out for them in making a vast open prairie a visual spectacle.

I won't pretend, however, to imagine that's an easy task. There are SO many quests that need to be written in an update where level advancement needs to be considered. I think perhaps the quest writers are also challenged by the fact that there's been limited amounts of Tolkein to draw from in some of the areas that the game has visited (though to be fair that's been true of a number of areas that have had much more interesting environments and quest threads, e.g. Forochel).

Overall, I would agree that we've seen some lackluster quest content in some recent expansions & updates, and would love to see the folks at Turbine turn up the creativity meter a fair bit. I fully expect to have to kill 10 goblins at some point along the way, but hopefully the story behind it is compelling and the environment is interesting and/or challenging enough to make it seem like more than just a mandatory level grind.

Originally Posted by snoman123

I think the OP's thread title is a bit misleading, as I get the impression that the problem is not with the nature of the quest goals, but the narrative surrounding them.

No, I think most of us got the impression it was the DESIGN of the quests from this:

Run here, come back, return and kill stuff, come back, return and destroy stuff, come back, return and destroy more stuff, come back, return and kill a named mob or two, booooring. (Dimrill Dale and other areas).

Not much mentioned in this sentence, or any of the others, for that matter, about the "narrative"

One good thing about the grind is that you can get mats for your craft, you can finish deeds, etc.

I think most of the zones contain both mundane and creative types of quest, from run of the mill to interesting storylines. Basically I'm saying that in terms of type of quest and creativity of quests the lower regions vary little from the higher ones.

Where I do think there is a difference in lower and higher areas is that in the lower areas you have time to "smell the flowers" and absorb what is going on a little more. When you are lower level you have fewer skills to use and master, however, I find with my alts being very high level now a lot of my focus is on the complex rotations and use of skills/consumables/gear/stances and so on ie my focus is taken away from the story somewhat whilst I'm doing it. It's only when I go back and really read the text again on subsequent alts that I really GET some of the storylines and finer details.

I don't know about you guys, but I seem to accept these kind of quests and carry them out just fine. I mean come on, the "Kill 10 of X" mechanic is a staple of almost every other game out there. What sets this a part from the others for me is the story behind the mundane quest. When I do them, I don't think about What I'm doing, but Why I'm doing it for. It helps me immerse myself to the story, and not feel ###### about the quest. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Dustalin

Careful what you ask for. I would much rather be bored and do kill/collect quests than be angry while doing protect stupid npc from dying quests.

Me too. I would also hate to see more solo only instances.

Please forgive me for forgetting the name of the town that we helped the Rangers helping the townsfolk in. That was one of those repetitive quest lines running you back and forth that in the end worked in giving you the feeling that the rangers must have had. Especially when they turned on us. I actually found myself immersed to a point of saying what ungrateful little maggots these people are!

Then, unrelated I was, at level 75, doing the Bog Lurkers deed in Lone Lands tonight. I kept thinking to myself, if these creatures are so flipping rare to hunt down, how can they be such a threat to the towns surrounding them.

Like some have expressed before me, I dislike running back and forth for the sake of stretching out a quest line. Hey! I'm already there! If I'm that great of an adventurer that your very survival depends on me doing a ton of deeds to save your town from ruin, DON'T TICK ME OFF! (Go there, kill off 25 creatures; go back, grab some supplies; go back again, gather some materials; please go back again, save the scouts that you passed on the way; hey, if you don't mind, kill that leader you passed 20 times on the way). Really? You could not have me do all that in one extended visit to the area that you fear will kill off your camp?

There is a point of extending the play time of the zone until you become "Where's Waldo" in Middle Earth!

Originally Posted by hitomo_x3

everyone who cant see the difference between the old-style they did the quest and areas and the Dunland style of
doinf the quests is just trolling or denying the facts or dont know much about Lotro ...

the difference and lack of creativity in Dunland is so massive it strikes you in the face right at the beginning...

Eh what? Are you serious or just trolling?? The only difference between old and new questlines is that old quests were much more badly organized logistic-wisely.

Also Dunland questlines have much better story behind them. Political struggle, massacre, freedom fight, intrigues, betrayal, imprisonment and so on. It's much better than Bree-land story for example: we have a brigand horde around, kill brigands here, kill them there.

I agree with Zarador directly above in that it is the back and forth that is the killer. If I could ask for one change in the quest process on this (or any) MMO it would be that if you are in an area and you kill XX number of items for them and while you are there you also happen to kill the Boss and pick up some items that are both part of a later quest, when you go back to the questgiver he would see your accomplishments and have the ability to say, "I see you've also done this and that, very handy of you. Why don't I reward you with these items as well...." and then you can receive credit for the other quests also. I can be way off base here, and certainly there is some logic required in that decision-making process code, but it doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

Originally Posted by snoman123

I think the OP's thread title is a bit misleading, as I get the impression that the problem is not with the nature of the quest goals, but the narrative surrounding them. In that vein, I'll agree that we've seen some very repetitive design involving story threads that are fairly uninspired, and I can certainly see how a "lore-fan" would find some of these quest lines to be dull and non-immersive. For my part, I think the best job that's been done on quest threads post-Moria was Mirkwood, but that's just personal opinion.

I don't think anyone really expects the devs to come up with a new form of solo quest that breaks significantly from the holy triumvirate of questing: "kill it", "go to it", and "protect it." That said, I think investing some time in making sure the story lines are fresh, interesting, and vaguely Tolkeinian would be appreciated by many players. As well, Dunland and the ROI areas have also been visually bland as well (Orthanc & the Ring perhaps being an exception imo). Needless to say, the devs have their work cut out for them in making a vast open prairie a visual spectacle.

I won't pretend, however, to imagine that's an easy task. There are SO many quests that need to be written in an update where level advancement needs to be considered. I think perhaps the quest writers are also challenged by the fact that there's been limited amounts of Tolkein to draw from in some of the areas that the game has visited (though to be fair that's been true of a number of areas that have had much more interesting environments and quest threads, e.g. Forochel).

Overall, I would agree that we've seen some lackluster quest content in some recent expansions & updates, and would love to see the folks at Turbine turn up the creativity meter a fair bit. I fully expect to have to kill 10 goblins at some point along the way, but hopefully the story behind it is compelling and the environment is interesting and/or challenging enough to make it seem like more than just a mandatory level grind.

Even more so, mature MMOs especially suffer from running out of unique plots - especially ones that have to force themselves within a specific genre. If you look closely, you're not likely to find many (if any) movies made within the last 20 years that bring anything new in terms of basic plotlines; and even the better movies basically just find a unique way to deliver it. We could even go further, and say movies themselves only change the presentation on plot lines born of plays and books. Focus on it enough, and you'll never be able to enjoy another new release again. Same thing goes with MMOs, and it's even more noticeable the longer an MMO has been out, complete with the countless number of quest chains that entails.

That being said, I'm quite surprised that people are telling them to "turn up the creativity meter", as I found RoI delivered quite a few quest chains that were quite different in function and presentation than any existing ones. Outside of introducing a completely different questing mechanic, I can't see what more creativity they could've shown there.

Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia

That being said, I'm quite surprised that people are telling them to "turn up the creativity meter", as I found RoI delivered quite a few quest chains that were quite different in function and presentation than any existing ones. Outside of introducing a completely different questing mechanic, I can't see what more creativity they could've shown there.

I'm certainly not saying it's not creative. I just don't see why, other than a time sink, we can't be given all the tasks that are related in that task persons quest at one time. Most of us already know when we see some named NPC in the area that we were sent to that we are going back for more tasks. Same goes with seeing crates and other type items that more than hint of what's to come.

I actually liked Evendim before the revamp. The revamp made it more streamlined. More of a 'hub' format if you will. Where you go to point A and do all those quests which send you to point B and you do THOSE quests, and those send you to point C and so on and so forth. In fact, I miss A LOT of the 'old' stuff. This game used to be more story driven. Now it's feeling more and more cookie cutter. Turbine doesn't seem to care about the game itself anymore. The rush to put out new content to pull people in for short periods of time and get them to spend money in the store. All they care about now is the bottom line... make as much money as possible.


Yes, I'd like to see more creativity. An example of past creativity would be the chicken quests in the Shire. They are quite unique and fun to do. AND they have a fun little story line. (If you haven't done them, you really should) Unfortunately, I don't see WB and Turbine spending extra time to make up better quests than "kill 10 of X mob" or "scout this area". And if they did? They would very likely require you to buy them from the store.


This game is slowly (but surely) becoming more about the store than anything else. To even do the raids you need the perks from the store, which I find just plain silly. And now it seems they're making a beeline for Mordor. Which, let's face it, will be the end. There's SO much more to Middle Earth than the path that Frodo took to Mordor. I'd like to see Dale, the Iron Hills, South Farthing... But I don't see that happening now, or ever. They used to know that there was more to Middle Earth... Look at Angmar, Forochel, North Downs... but I guess it's no longer about Middle Earth. The majority (which I suspect are mostly free players that spend a ton of money in the store) want to see Mordor. So it looks like that's where it's headed now.

The store was supposed to sell convenience. Now it sells Advantage. This game used to be about the story, now it's about making money.


So unless WB and Turbine think they can make more money from it, don't expect better quests or stories.

Originally Posted by Zombielord

Actually you can tell when Dunland starts to become very tedious ... The answer is Rohan.
Every single quest with Theodreds riders kinda goes like this:

"Hello <insert name here> mind if you check on our three scouts?"
"Hi, I'm Scout #1! Complete my three dull quests and move on to scout #2 to do the same things again.
Oh and please don't mute the game while I'm telling you that "the minions of Sauron are getting stronger in these lands" each and every time you accept or turn in a quest, ok?

It really looks somebody ran out of ideas and then filled a whole area with "talk to the scout" quests.

LOL That's EXACTLY how it is!

Originally Posted by Zarador

I'm certainly not saying it's not creative. I just don't see why, other than a time sink, we can't be given all the tasks that are related in that task persons quest at one time. Most of us already know when we see some named NPC in the area that we were sent to that we are going back for more tasks. Same goes with seeing crates and other type items that more than hint of what's to come.

I'm certainly not going to argue on how annoying that is - but to be fair, from especially Mirkwood on, they've been a lot better about this, when it comes to the time it takes to go back to an area. If you want a taste of how bad it was, go quest through North Downs or Angmar again, then compare it to say, Dunland.

That being said, I really would like to see so-called "dynamic" questing. Say for instance, you're in this bad guys camp, and while you're in the process of collecting the 10 widgets from the normal mobs, you end up whacking the boss - when you come back, you'll be able to accept and finish the obligatory "kill boss" quest immediately.

My hobbit would like a quest where he all he has to do is eat pies.

Originally Posted by Maldrake

What makes or breaks an MMO is the story and we have a classic. I doubt that it is much different with the newer games like TOR etc.

TOR certainly has lots of kill quests, FedX quests, etc. The basic structure of a lot of the quests is pretty familiar. However, they spent what's rumored to have been a gargantuan amount of money making that game ($150M), money which allowed them to do some things to make the standard MMO fare more fun IMO:

• Every single conversation is a dynamic cutscene between your character and companion, the NPCs you're talking with, and any group members you have with you. NPCs come in and interrupt, events happen, camera angles change. It has a "cinematic" feel to it. I'm not sure that would work as well in this setting, but it works quite well there.
• It's 100% voiced, and the voicing is superb. This coming from someone who generally dislikes voicing in these games (because they're not of high enough quality, they're vastly too repetitive, they don't use enough distinct voice actors, etc). TOR must have at least 1000 hour's worth of good-quality voicing. Maybe twice that. Seriously.
• They regularly spice up some of the quests with special effects, additional cutscenes, etc. Literally every day or two I see something that must have been hand-crafted for just one particular quest. Maybe it's a maglev train leaving a station, or a ship getting shot down over Coruscant. Maybe it's an animation I'd never seen before, in any other context. This customization really goes a long way in making it feel less "cookie cutter".
• There are 8 different storylines (1 per base class) which are actually pretty decent, if often rather melodramatic in typical Star Wars fashion. I'd guess there's 100-150 hour's worth of story for each of the 8 classes, and of course they also do a lot of shared content with all the other classes for each side of the war. With that much story, you just don't get the feeling that you've done it all before 47 times.

They also learned a few things from previous games, I think. For example, they have something a bit like "deeds" that help you earn Commendations, which can be bartered for good gear. However, these aren't nearly as tedious as LOTRO's slayer deeds. There are typically 3-4 different "stages", including a couple of short "kill stuff" phases, a search-and-destroy or collection phase, and a "kill the big bad guy" phase. Completing one of those sets, start to finish, can generally be done in 15-20 minutes. They're timesinks, but not nearly as transparently as the slayer deeds in LOTRO are.

They also have a treasure system which is simply more fun, because there's always the possibility that the next kill you make or the next chest you loot will deliver something really great. As in "equal to the best 4-man group rewards" sort of great. Those drops are rare, but they're still possible. I tend to see one about once in 10-14 days of gameplay, a reward interval that's good enough to keep me interested. The next level of quality down I'll see close to once daily, and those are great too.

LOTRO has a setting I like better than TOR, and it's a thrill to see and experience these places and events in Middle-earth that I first read about when I was 11 years old. However, LOTRO does feel like it has a lot of "filler" in it, IMO. Probably because it does. TOR does as well, but because they have so much $$ to spend, they've so far been a bit better at hiding it. Time will tell whether they'll be able to keep that up.

Khafar

Hi,

if you feel that finding Questitems/NPCs is boring, just disable the questfinder tool.
It's more fun to really search for objects or persons while not knowing where they are.

Receiving a token after slaying a "Boss" NPC would be nice. It will prove that you have dealt with the nasty guys, and the NPC will may send you back to the camp to search for whatever was stolen (requires phasing of course).
Think of it as a sort of shortcut to the whole quest, but you may miss some story in between.

Would be nice to see some sort of small Anuminas style places.
E.g.: at different locations you can see raiding Wargriders/Dunledings/Uruks and help the Rohirrim to defend their position/farm, or if it was taken reclaim it for them. Depeding on this you gain questhubs or a mobile NPC.

Cheers
Eodeth

After Enedwith and Dunland, I'd rather have kill X quests (with a decent storyline justification) than playing the farm hand and collecting manure, milking cows, hauling logs of wood and gathering rusty nails. These areas were full of that type of quest. NO MORE PLEASE! It's ok now and then to break the mold, but it felt like half the quests in Dunland were like that; it was extremely frustrating. These are heroes that have thwarted Angmar, liberated Moria, slain various Dragons, humiliated Saruman - it makes no sense to give them progressively menial tasks like collecting poop.

Originally Posted by Kardess

My hobbit would like a quest where he all he has to do is eat pies.

Eat all the pies?
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/x-all-the-y

From what we have heard so far I get the feeling that we will be seeing some new and interesting quest types. Especially in the new mounted combat area, this just lends itself to original quest design and could well be something that NONE of us have done before.

Personally however I don't mind kill X, gather Y quest types. LotRO always has well written justification, and fantastic landscapes in which to perform the tasks. Hell even the landscape mobs are more interesting than the vast majority of other MMOs out there.

I too am surprised at the Evendim reference from the OP, it s a great place to level efficiently, but lacks the more dynamic feel of other zones (Angmar is a great example, with clusters far apart, and lots of group content interspersed in tough areas when on level).
Personally I'm very excited by the possibilities that mounted combat will have on questing in RoR, but I will still enjoy the more traditional areas just as much as ever if they look good, have some fun mobs and are well written.

Originally Posted by Khafar

TOR certainly has lots of kill quests, FedX quests, etc. The basic structure of a lot of the quests is pretty familiar. However, they spent what's rumored to have been a gargantuan amount of money making that game ($150M), money which allowed them to do some things to make the standard MMO fare more fun IMO:

• Every single conversation is a dynamic cutscene between your character and companion, the NPCs you're talking with, and any group members you have with you. NPCs come in and interrupt, events happen, camera angles change. It has a "cinematic" feel to it. I'm not sure that would work as well in this setting, but it works quite well there.
• It's 100% voiced, and the voicing is superb. This coming from someone who generally dislikes voicing in these games (because they're not of high enough quality, they're vastly too repetitive, they don't use enough distinct voice actors, etc). TOR must have at least 1000 hour's worth of good-quality voicing. Maybe twice that. Seriously.
• They regularly spice up some of the quests with special effects, additional cutscenes, etc. Literally every day or two I see something that must have been hand-crafted for just one particular quest. Maybe it's a maglev train leaving a station, or a ship getting shot down over Coruscant. Maybe it's an animation I'd never seen before, in any other context. This customization really goes a long way in making it feel less "cookie cutter".
• There are 8 different storylines (1 per base class) which are actually pretty decent, if often rather melodramatic in typical Star Wars fashion. I'd guess there's 100-150 hour's worth of story for each of the 8 classes, and of course they also do a lot of shared content with all the other classes for each side of the war. With that much story, you just don't get the feeling that you've done it all before 47 times.

They also learned a few things from previous games, I think. For example, they have something a bit like "deeds" that help you earn Commendations, which can be bartered for good gear. However, these aren't nearly as tedious as LOTRO's slayer deeds. There are typically 3-4 different "stages", including a couple of short "kill stuff" phases, a search-and-destroy or collection phase, and a "kill the big bad guy" phase. Completing one of those sets, start to finish, can generally be done in 15-20 minutes. They're timesinks, but not nearly as transparently as the slayer deeds in LOTRO are.

They also have a treasure system which is simply more fun, because there's always the possibility that the next kill you make or the next chest you loot will deliver something really great. As in "equal to the best 4-man group rewards" sort of great. Those drops are rare, but they're still possible. I tend to see one about once in 10-14 days of gameplay, a reward interval that's good enough to keep me interested. The next level of quality down I'll see close to once daily, and those are great too.

LOTRO has a setting I like better than TOR, and it's a thrill to see and experience these places and events in Middle-earth that I first read about when I was 11 years old. However, LOTRO does feel like it has a lot of "filler" in it, IMO. Probably because it does. TOR does as well, but because they have so much $$ to spend, they've so far been a bit better at hiding it. Time will tell whether they'll be able to keep that up.

Khafar

This is it. That is why levelling in TOR is by farm more immersive than Lotro now. I mean when did the average player last read the text of a quest where he is dealing with killing ten boars? I know I did not do so when levelling in Dunland apart from a couple of quests afterwards, where I actually thought it might have been interesting to see the story. On the whole I only read what the epics had to offer. It used to be different. I did listen to every NPC in TOR though for ervery simple quest.
I stopped that in Lotro, when that immensly stupid quest-tracker became available. It is jsut so convenient and lazy using it since Lorien especially since the Questtexts themselves do not offer enough directions any more.
Now as I study geography I am quite familiar with bad directions, and I liked how the quest-NPCs were giving out directions where you had to open the map and think about where to head to. I was known to my kinmates as Mr. Lotro because I could just find everywhere I had to go. With the Quest-tracker my incentive to read is gone because it takes the only action away from me apart from actually pressing my skills. Now this quest tracker is standard in every MMO and single player roleplaying game and it works for me as long as you put some other incentive for doing quests there. This might be an awesome landscape (I am a geographer), this is where evendim scores, or forochel. Or it needs stories that are brought to you automatically while doing the quest. This is where forochel scored as well. Remeber that quest where you had to keep the brothers away from the koti that forochel fellow was trying to score in? It was narrated in a few sentences that you could easily read on screen instead of a huge text, you could do that by audio as well of course. You can also add a kind of riddle that will need you to read the quest text, like in Moria or Evendim. This altogether creates immersion.

As an example I would like to compare Morrowind to Oblivion. I remember when doing the Dark Brotherhood quests in Morrowinf where I had to follow instructions closely to get to the target. I was running around for 10-15 minutes until I found him. That was funny in these times, never boring. In Oblivion there we had that quest-tracker but the quests were still immersive due to the outlying mechanics stated above.