Thema: Remembering back in '07 When Wargs were Worthy of a good Fight

+Pith level 50 Warg 1,120,000 morral...


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kitty wants to fight a Warg like the one Fuzzy Teddy talks about q:
not those winps hiding in the moors these days waiting on there cd's q;

Screenies were taken around March 26, 2007 durning an End of the World event in Rivendell on Brandywine Beta Server

My First Infamy and Renown...


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was from +Pith



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Then there was the Ranked-up +Pith at 2,240,000


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Talk about a Lag-Fest q:

I wish Turbine would do this now. Wish my Weaver had 1 million morale.

I had such high hopes for pvp for this game back then.Then 5 years later all we received was DoF and a tree new TR rez

Outposts don't count as they took away hot spots come on Turbine would it really hurt to spend a little money on new pvp content.

Zitat von obiwaan

I had such high hopes for pvp for this game back then.Then 5 years later all we received was DoF and a tree new TR rez

Outposts don't count as they took away hot spots come on Turbine would it really hurt to spend a little money on new pvp content.

Lets say they did, would they even do it right based on their track record? If they did do it right would they fix their servers so we could have fights that were lag free? If we fought lag free would the mechanic be spot on so we don't have broken mitigations and other bugs some of which has plagued us for years (warleader bug)? And would it even matter when the mecca of pvp is right around the corner in GW2 and their open world pvp system makes the moors look like what it is. An area designed very badly by devs who will always care more about pve.

PS: and an honest question, since I am really intersted in what you think. What do you think they could do with the structure they have now of the moors to make it better for an extended period of time. I say extended because most people pine for a new map, but once the newness wears off, if the design and lack of purposeful objectives are the same as the current map we are going to have a new area that is exactly like the old area.

The only thing I am reasonably sure is that my faith in Turbine is absolute......

If they fix something it breaks something else;
If they add something it's already broken and may eventually be removed;
If we like something they will remove it and put something in place that will never work right and not a single player will have ever thought of requesting;
That freeps will always stronger (no offense but they keep adding to the hero side so they can't help but get stronger);
That they will never give weavers back their unbreakable root;



Other than that I am feeling good about the future...

Zitat von 1_v01d_0

PS: and an honest question, since I am really intersted in what you think. What do you think they could do with the structure they have now of the moors to make it better for an extended period of time. I say extended because most people pine for a new map, but once the newness wears off, if the design and lack of purposeful objectives are the same as the current map we are going to have a new area that is exactly like the old area.

I have thought about this alot over the years and there is no easy solution.A new map would help but like you said the problems in game (for years ) would just plague the new map lag being at the top.Then I thought of q'ed instances like warhammer had or swtor now.Where 8 people join a private instance and fight another 8.The problem with this is the sides are not mirrored and in most cases the creeps would be at a disadvantage in a equally skilled 8v8.

First thing as bad as we all hate to admit it lotro is pvp based on zerging with raid assist ,target forwarding etc the game mechanics just beg to zerg.Allowing huge number advantages for either side on the same map that most of us has played for years there is only so many places groups can go.The problem with a game designed this way is its set up for full RVR but the servers just cant handle it.

Open world pvp is ideal for a game designed for heavy RVR.For lotro it would be hard as all the maps are quest areas for freeps.Since the creeps don't have to level any fair open would pvp would be almost impossible.You know creeps would camp quest areas kill low level freeps.

So to Turbines credit they have no easy job adding any major content update for pvp.Unless they just expanded on the moors map giving at least a fresh perspective to the vets.The biggest problem is they are footing around with any end game content after all these years we are just getting to Rohan.At this rate it will be another 6 year before we reach Gondor/Mordor.To be honest I think they are just making it up as they go alone what they need is a clear plan for some end game content.Then they could really work on pvp until then pvp is just a side show to the pve.

At this point I just wished they would do anything I play lotro more now for the people I meet over the years it really has a great community compared to other mmo's.I just catch myself needing longer breaks as the moors really is the same old stuff over and over again.Only thing that changes is which class is OP and which side has the numbers.The game could be so much more it has great lore and mechanics just pvp is at the bottom of the list which is sad for me.

Ok to answer your question lol I would have to say instance pvp where 1v1 or up to like 8v8 could Q up to join a private instance if they could just have a balance system(like buffs) that would make it fair fights.Many players would embrace some small group fights and not worry about being zerged by overwhelming numbers.That would itself create another problem drawing players away from the moors where at times its almost dead during the non peek hours.

So there really is no simple solution

True, it's no easy task and if they change the accepted mechanic (two raids orbiting the moors for fame and fortune) they will not only drive away players (no biggie since they've been doing that for years) but they remove the only thing that does work (raiding which allows ranking at an acceptable pace for most). And like others have said (me too in the past): the servers can't take the load.

That leaves only a few choices and the easiest is upgrading the pvmp servers but I can't see them doing that unless they are pretty sure they will profit from the change. So that leaves two avenues. One: changing how the moors work from the ground up building around the server capabilities (but again a costly process with no real positives for anyone) or that last: keep adding bits and pieces to the existing setup.

So as far as I can see: get ready for more cat and mouse raid wars with a few changes to the existing classes to stimulate interest and maybe weaken the freep domination in dps.

Great ideas and suggestions. Dont want to quote the whole thing from both you, Obi, and Mummy so I will just run with some things stated.

On zergs and RvR, zerg happens in every game, you will never completely stop it, and really there is no reason if certain criteria exists. For instance open world in most game is pretty massive and lets for a second consider the moors, though instanced, as the closest we will get to open world pvp. Make the maps much much larger, make objectives of different size (some for raids, some for small groups, some for duos ect) and make those objective actually worthwhile to try and take and control and you solve a lot of the zerg problem. As it stands the closest to objective are taking the relics and taking keeps neither of which really does much in the short or long run. Not to mention keeps are about as faulty as you can get for capture and control objectives. Give me a keep I can fortify, the npcs cant be bugged or exploited and aren't trivial damage wise and we can be looking at the beginning of an place that actually requires a raid+ to take. Make overall control of areas of the map greatly benefit the side who controls it and you have a situation where the zerg will be busy fighting over large objectives leaving room for smaller groups to do their own thing.

Q'd instances are also a great idea and one I whole heartily support. To get the q's rolling and not deplete from the moors turbine should look into cross server q'ing. Not only would this assist in the q times and overall moors pop but then you could fight against new opponents something I am sure all of us would love to do. Of course turbine would have to really really tweak balance since classes are not mirrored. Something I have yet to see them really try. Where is creep equivalent of RK or mini? and that brings me to the over all mechanics of combat.

We need more dynamic combat in pvp, starting with knockbacks and gap closers. With those two things your are giving kiting classes more control and melee classes more control. So it is all a matter of whether your opponent is a better kiter then you are at keeping the gap closed tight. Add things like the ability for tanks type classes to actually tank (pulling incoming damage from friendly players) and the fights become more robust and dynamic. While your at it turbine, more accessible heal debuff for your melee (champ/reaver) and stealth classes.

Honestly I would welcome a new map if the put in measures to make sure the pvp was great there. And they really can I think. With the above improvements make a large map, make overall pvp progression based off not just killing the other side but holding strategic locations. Add more dynamic landscape with more cliffs, small bridges, bottle necks ect in areas where fighting is encouraged. Make the new map an extension even of the original map where it is practically a bad lands for both sides with very few friendly npcs except for locations your currently hold. The worst thing they could do would be to put in another oc/ec.

But this is all moot unless they outright fix their servers so that the largest perceivable amount of people can fight without it being a contest of whose skill fires first. Would be nice to see some 60+ on either side fights that went off without the server hamster experience catastrophic heart failure.

-Clio