Thread: Grouping with a pair of Hunters

New to LotRO and grouping with a pair of Hunters for trio play. One Hunter is experienced, the other is new. Suggestions on what I should create?

To me, the "obvious" choice would be a tank (Guardian/Warden) or healer (Minster/RK) -- I know some of those classes are $, and that's fine. I tend to play Controllers so Loremaster is also looking like a comfortable fit.

If this post is tl;dr, just gimme your advice on what class would mesh well. If there are ways to specialize a class to synergize with said Hunters, ways that a new player wouldn't figure out from reading the 101 guides, lay it on me. (Making this up -->) Maybe a Champion has ways, if you specialize them right, of healing. Maybe a Loremaster can draw aggro. Anything goes, no matter how esoteric a build.


If not tl;dr, bit more below on my thought process.

What I don't understand, not having played the game much, is how skill and trait choices affect things. I'm reasonably familiar with MMOs, but not this one. If I take skills X, Y, Z, sure they require each other but does that mean I am now a Type A Warden? If I change two of those skills out and Skill trees are a big jumbled mess to me, and I will need to play to see what's what. Thing is, I tend to research things a before making decisions like this. I don't want to get to level 20 and realize, "####...this sucks for my playstyle."

The class guides are great as they go into great detail -- but I need more info about what it means to specialize, not the 101 guides and not the "how to squeeze every last drop of efficiency" guides. Something in between.


Thanks everyone!



EDIT: Huh. Didn't realize the word starting with "c" and ending with a type of music was going to be blacked out.

Difficult question

Your first thought is right, A Guardian can protect both Hunters by pulling the enemys Aggro on himself.
In the meantime both hunters can do the damage.
But you don`t have any healing Skills.

Maybe you should think about a captain.
He is able to protect, to heal, to buff and his companion helps in the Infight and to buff Morale or Power.
just an idea.


( English is not my first language. Hope my thought are understandable )

If I am reading your questions correctly, it seems to me that you are under two misconceptions:

1. There are no "skill trees" in Lotro. This isn't like, say, Diablo II, in which once you select a particular line of skills your character is permanently fixed along a line of specialization. "Skills", in Lotro terminology, are actions that can be performed in or out of combat--these include melee and ranged attacks, healing of oneself and others, crowd control actions, etc. All class skills are the same for every character of that class (ie every hunter has the same skills available as every other hunter).

2. There are no permanent class training choices in Lotro. The differentiation of one character from another of the same class comes from "traiting". Again, all traits, for the most part, are available to all characters of the same class (it requires some effort in questing and slaying to acquire all traits). Traits can be swapped at any time by visiting a bard and paying a small fee. Each class has three "groups" of related class traits. In very, very general terms, the three trait lines for each class fall under the headings of solo, primary group function and secondary group function. Class traits can be freely mixed and matched. There is never a need to "re-roll" in Lotro due to a poor choice made during leveling a character.

As to a class that would complement two hunters, I would recommend the Guardian as a good choice -- if the class suits your play-style. The guardian is the most durable tank in the game, and arguably the easiest with which to keep aggro from two hunters of varying skill. Hunters do a lot of damage but can take little; the guardian is the opposite. You mentioned, however, that you like to play "Controllers". This suggests to me that you might like to play the Loremaster class. With a group of one loremaster and two hunters, battles will be fought using a lot of crowd control skills by you and the two hunters, reducing the number of active enemies. You will be able to provide limited burst healing to your hunter friends, as well as using your pets to further control crowds. You'll all three be easy kills if large numbers of enemies close to melee range; the variety of crowd control skills at your disposal in addition to the high damage output of the hunters should make battles very quick for you and very frustrating for your enemies.

Welcome to Middle-earth and have fun!

Originally Posted by Dark_Toad

1. There are no "skill trees" in Lotro. This isn't like, say, Diablo II, in which once you select a particular line of skills your character is permanently fixed along a line of specialization. "Skills", in Lotro terminology, are actions that can be performed in or out of combat--these include melee and ranged attacks, healing of oneself and others, crowd control actions, etc. All class skills are the same for every character of that class (ie every hunter has the same skills available as every other hunter).

2. There are no permanent class training choices in Lotro. The differentiation of one character from another of the same class comes from "traiting". Again, all traits, for the most part, are available to all characters of the same class (it requires some effort in questing and slaying to acquire all traits). Traits can be swapped at any time by visiting a bard and paying a small fee. Each class has three "groups" of related class traits. In very, very general terms, the three trait lines for each class fall under the headings of solo, primary group function and secondary group function. Class traits can be freely mixed and matched. There is never a need to "re-roll" in Lotro due to a poor choice made during leveling a character.

Well explained. +1


As for class recommendations probably Lore-Master (LM) or Captain would be best for your trio. The guard has no way to heal the hunters, they can only heal their self. Hunters have no way to heal themselves either (except for racial or legendary traits earned later on w/ long cooldowns). But both the LM & Cappie can heal others. The Cappie & it's herald pet can act like a tank somewhat. The LM's pet can act like a tank especially if you have a bear. If you like to crowd-control (CC), then the LM might be the best fit for your play style. Using hunter traps, fears, roots, etc & LM stuns, roots, mezzes, etc your enemies will be putty in your hands. But if your CC fails (as it sometimes is ''resisted'') & if you get too many (6+) melee mobs in close, then it will get ugly fast b/c you are all fairly squishy classes (if not well-prepared), that aren't really made for melee combat. Also keep in mind that a lot of "bosses" are immune to CC & may require kiting.

Hope this helps. Welcome to LOTRO & happy questing! :-)

.

http://my.lotro.com/user-802586/wp-c...eep-65-sig.gif
yeah yeah, I know my sig is outdated already even though I just updated it lol...

I've leveled a Guard to 75, and it was by far the easiest class I've brought to level cap. I've also leveled an RK to 75 as well. Solo, getting from 70-75 was a lot harder than for my Guard, but if you're planning on taking your static group to cap together, then playing as a healer role will likely be easier than doing it solo.

As someone else mentioned, traits play a big part in specializing your character to fit one of it's roles. An RK, for example, has a traitline basically dedicated to healing, another for Lightning spells (for solo), another for Fire spells (which generally have inductions and are normally more used in grouping). Basically, you pick and choose from up to 24 traits the 7 that you think would be most advantageous in a given situation. And re-traiting is generally pretty cheap.

If you choose to be a healer-type, then your hunters will basically be doing their own crowd-control (hunters have their own CC abilities) and probably splitting tanking duties. It's doable, but probably a bit riskier than choosing to tank.

I'd suggest Captain, which can sort of tank, sort of heal, and sort of DPS, sort of CC, but they're generally known for their buffing and debuffing abilites. Tanking is generally harder for a Captain than Guard or Warden, or even Champ, as they can hold aggro only only 2 or so mobs at a time, but they do have access to more healing abilities than a Guard.

Speaking as a captain, grouping with even one hunter is pretty frustrating. Captains have no ranged damage to speak of, so unless you like chasing creatures back and forth, keeping aggro is difficult.

If you are talking about questing and landscape play, I would suggest a Minstrel. Minstrels also have some crowd control and lots of ranged damage, but also the healing that you will lack. You still won't have anyone to tank multiples, but you will be killing so fast that groups of 2 or 3 should not be a problem. Use crowd control for larger groups and you may be fine.

But most of all you should play a class you like. You can do most any content with any group makeup, if the players know their classes and are willing to experiment.

So, those guides for medium amounts of info I was looking for? tentonhammer.com/lotro has them. Lots. I've made up my mind! No tl;dr for this one, have to keep reading...


DonLuzi:
Captain was my first thought as a bit of melee damage is different from my normal style of play. However, mixing ranged and melee damage without a tank seems like a bad idea. I really like the Captains buffs and the Heralds, I just don't think it's for me when grouping with two Hunters.


Dark_Toad:
I was indeed misunderstanding how traits/skills work. Having spent a lot more time today reading, without having played the game yet I think I understand it now. The revelation came when I found the skill "sets" on the Lorebook.

Regarding trait lines, are solo and primary/secondary lines consistent across classes? Kinda hard to tell what's what without actually playing I guess. Which I will be in a few minutes.

Guardians are great, I love tanks -- I like playing classes that defend others, too. Controllers are my favorite class in City of Heroes, and there just so happens to be what I consider a Controller with more variety programmed into LOTRO. Melee won't happen...melee won't happen...melee won't happen...I'll wake up, eventually...

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I'll be referring back to it a few times.


chazandmeh:
Loremaster is tasty, Captain is awesome but lacks ranged damage that will be problematic when trying to keep up with Hunters. You have an excellent point about CC powers not working against bosses. Do they not work, period, end of story...or do they work at reduced effect/duration? I'm really hoping they work somewhat.


Moefaux:
Thanks for the details. I crave them, and will keep these in mind. Especially the bits about tanking as a Captain. I may try Captain for my soloing character.


Shukar:
I hadn't considered Minstrel because I keep thinking HP=damage, instead of LOTRO's Morale. I like the system of Ballad/Anthem/Coda, and the concept of music as a weapon or shield. My only concern is kiting...can the Minstrel trigger their effects while moving? I read somewhere that it's difficult to do, though I've done so much reading on LOTRO today it might have been a specific circumstances that I didn't have enough knowledge to interpret.



So! Loremaster for me to start, Captain I want to try soonish, and Minstrel I'll need some convincing but I love the concept.

Thanks everyone for contributing! Still keeping tabs on this thread for any more info that gets posted.

Originally Posted by arsglacialis

My only concern is kiting...can the Minstrel trigger their effects while moving? I read somewhere that it's difficult to do, though I've done so much reading on LOTRO today it might have been a specific circumstances that I didn't have enough knowledge to interpret.

Minstrels have a hard time healing on the run; RK's and Captains are much better at that. However, Minstrels can cast many damage skills while moving. If I remember right, they also have a stun they can use to disable, get distance, and have some time to heal before the critter wakes up and reaches them again. Kiting is definitely a viable tactic with a Minstrel... one I probably don't use nearly often enough after having learned the game with a Captain. (Captains do best when they stand and fight and use their recovery skills. They're very hard to kill... but in return have some of the slowest DPS in the game.) Minstrels are strong solo-ers and popular with groups because many of their damage skills buff the group at the same time.

And yes, there is just nothing like killing orcs WITH MUSIC!

Originally Posted by Shukar

Speaking as a captain, grouping with even one hunter is pretty frustrating. Captains have no ranged damage to speak of, so unless you like chasing creatures back and forth, keeping aggro is difficult.

This!

Think very carefully about choosing a melee class when you are grouping with two hunters. If you can't do some ranged then this probably won't be much fun. Also while a captain can both tank and heal, it's not easy to heal oneself effectivly, so doing both at the same time is somewhat difficult.

If you insist on using a melee class like a Captain, Champion or Burglar with a pair of Hunters, the three of you will have to learn the hug me approach. You will always have to stay in a ball. The mobs are coming for the Hunters. As a Captain, you are going to stand there. Watch the Hunters firing like crazy as the mobs close. There is nothing to do until the mobs into your group. Do not even bother heading for the mobs. They will ignore you. Head straight for the Hunters. You will not be able to get the mobs off the Hunters as a Captain.

A Guardian works well because they have lots of strong aggro skills and forced taunts. Play a Guardian. You need to train those Hunters to watch you charge the mobs and make em mad. Let you do the pulls. Or you can do the Captain trick. You got a bow. You can join in the firing like crazy as the mobs close. Use a taunt to get them off the Hunters.

Welcome to Middle Earth. Regardless of what class you pick to support the Hunters, it will be a interesting experience. If you choose a Guardian, you will be ready for group instances. Those Hunters will test your tanking skills to the limit. You learn how to control your opponents with two Hunters in your group. You will not have any problems when a Burglar, Champion, Minstrel and Captain are added to the mix. Rune Keeper may drive you crazy with their jumping jack flash fire and movement.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Let you do the pulls. Or you can do the Captain trick. You got a bow. You can join in the firing like crazy as the mobs close. Use a taunt to get them off the Hunters.

Overall this is great advice. However, Captain's can't use bows, though Guardians and Champs (eventually) can. The "Captain trick" is to use Noble Mark to place a damage-over-time effect on the mobs to draw them. However, since they reduced the threat on Noble Mark, this has been more difficult to use for keeping aggro.

It is indeed tough for Captains to be main tank AND main healer at the same time. When I'm out with Minstrels it's great; I can be a tank and heal and the Minstrels can catch me up if something goes wrong. But with Hunters that's not easy to do.

What two Hunters CAN do is to play ping-pong with the mobs... meaning that when they're heading for one Hunter, that one drops DPS and does their best to shed aggro while the other goes nuts with the damage. When the mobs turn around to run at the second Hunter, they swap.

I do think that a class with ranged damage will do better in a group with Hunters.

Originally Posted by arsglacialis

chazandmeh:
Loremaster is tasty, Captain is awesome but lacks ranged damage that will be problematic when trying to keep up with Hunters. You have an excellent point about CC powers not working against bosses. Do they not work, period, end of story...or do they work at reduced effect/duration? I'm really hoping they work somewhat.

Depends on the boss and type of CC. Most higher-level bosses are immune to CC (as in they won't pause a second) but some of them have adds that are not immune. There are, however, special cases. Most bosses are not immune to Fellowship Maneuvers (a.k.a. FM, Conj, Conjunction) that do stun them for a few seconds while your group is getting ready to execute. I will leave you to do some more reading on that subject. Burglars are masters of triggering those, but when grouping with 2 hunters it can be tricky.

Hope this helped.
Cerridan of Firefoot.

I see you picked LM. I find your group combo interesting. Working your way up as the healer will be fun. you will have some better group heals and spot heal as time goes by. I do hope you post some of your experiences in the LM forum.

Main bosses - as noted are primarily CC immune due to a LM named Shauna back in the day. Catch his videos on you tube. Prolly the ultimate in playing the LM IMO. Just because you know how to do something does not mean you can. He soloed stuff that in most opinions should not have been possible. This was at level 50 and no LI weapons. Turbine had to stick in a few cheats for the mobs so they cannot be pawned by a soloer.

Single best advice I can give you - if your gear and bling dip below 3 levels in respect to your level, life gets harder than it needs to be. You should be taking on no less than yellow mobs and as much as red with careful pulls. The 3 of you need to pick different professions in order to compliment each other. Tinker and Historian are 2 IMO that will help all 3 the most.

Second tip I will pass on - your Hunter friends will need to learn focus fire. If you root 3 mobs - no sense in them aggroing 2 of them needlessly. Group leader should be designating targets.

I don't think Captain + Hunters would have been that bad as long as the hunters wait until the Captain has meleed the mobs. Most of the time I'd expect the hunters to just focus fire one mob down before it even gets to them while the Cappie and herald go find other mobs for them. For ranged pulls Battle Shout or crafted throwing axes work fine and the axes provide something halfway useful to train weaponsmithing with.

LM + Hunters will get really interesting. You'll probably have to root + nuke most mobs, but elites and bosses will be tough.

I'd really see if one of those Hunters would think about another class just for the sake of diversity. An RK would still be able to nuke from range, but be able to go heal mode for tougher content. That's perfect for adding a Captain.

With Wardens getting a whole stance dedicated to ranged DPS they might be very appealing as a sort of Hunter-lite. A LM would go great in that group. Warden + LM has always been one of the most powerful duos. Adding a hunter into that is just more DPS plus the handy ports.

Unfortunately both of those are expansion classes which you may not have yet. For a non-expansion class the only other class that could be considered ranged-dps is minstrel, but that may not be what they want.

You'll work it out somehow though. Have fun.