Sorry about my first post OP but you didn't link the diary right away.
On the pots:
Aren't stun,root, power and moral pots usually brought with silver from the vendor? Is this being changed too? Or is it just delving pots?
Can you still farm delving mobs for the new currency?
Finally perhaps the new freep gear, and what ever creeps get to buy with their points, will be something like a clicky item that removes CC so we will therefore need fewer pots? And people will get their wish for less CC in the Moors.
Anyway I like the idea of PvPing for PvP gain.
1) They are, the ones bought with delving stones don't have the health penalty though.
2) No you can't farm the delving npcs (as least thats what i gained from it). But they did mention that in the place of delving stones the npcs will drop pots (i assume to keep the delving somewhat useful, or a way to gain pots if you're hording for skills/traits).
Sorry about my first post OP but you didn't link the diary right away.
On the pots:
Aren't stun,root, power and moral pots usually brought with silver from the vendor? Is this being changed too? Or is it just delving pots?
Can you still farm delving mobs for the new currency?
Finally perhaps the new freep gear, and what ever creeps get to buy with their points, will be something like a clicky item that removes CC so we will therefore need fewer pots? And people will get their wish for less CC in the Moors.
Anyway I like the idea of PvPing for PvP gain.
(No problem m8)
Yup am all for a pvp system being enhanced; however it creates two huge problems -
> As I have already alluded to, the vendor pots are sub-par, freeps as far as we know ill still craft theirs so will not be penalised.
If the effect is to make dof pots more expensive, which at a glance it most certainly will thats a big problem; 10s anti stun pots, decent heal (and power pots) armour pots, evade and resistance pots just went up.
The number of these that get burned through is almost certainly be less than the number coming in under this system as it stands - not an issue going to be faced by the freeps, who instead get a lovely gear upgrade under this system.
>DP's creeps will no longer be able to obtain destiny, they can buff with it and fighting opponents who have 3 lines of buffs its pretty useful; its a perk for VIP players - so once those destiny points have dried up you could only get them by levelling a freep o.-
Pots can be bought from store as can buffs -.- The ability to get them in the game has been nerfed in the case of pots and blocked in the case of buffs.
I am all for more pvp returns, but to make me happy here you'd have to get a block on all craftable freep pots on the moors (lol yea right) and have cheap commodation cost for buffs. Not gonna happen is it... we both know its a push to the store for pvp.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
I, for one, have posted twice in the last three months about problems getting Pugs for the Delving of Fror.
I've no idea how the Moors are on Landroval, I've only ever been out there one night and then it was a zergball. But to tell the truth, most of the DoF is soloable and for the 140k bosses you only really need a defiler with Blight. On my server, at least, it's a lot easier to find groups if you're in a tribe, although I personally am willing to take anyone down there with me as long as they know to kite npcs in and out of blight. I don't think Landy is that much poorer than Crick, is it?
Now that I've had time to think and calm down a bit, I still don't like the Commiserations system (at least not how it's proposed in the dev diary), which might partially be because I play on a NA server while living in the EU, and what am I supposed to do when no freeps are out during the day and going to the delving has been rendered pointless?! But as long as they let us keep and still gain our DP, I guess I will have to make do.
Wouldn't it be easier and more logical though to use our already existing DP to pay for skills/pots/&c instead of coming up with a new and, I don't know, constricting currency system? And why the cap? The only message it sends is that once you hit it you've no longer welcome in the Moors till you spend it. Who would it hurt if there weren't a currency cap? I mean, if I spend more time out fighting the good fight than the next guy, shouldn't I be awarded accordingly? xD
Yup am all for a pvp system being enhanced; however it creates two huge problems -
I had a good chat with a few creeps in a private chat last night while logged, these are people whom I have learned a lot from. None of us could see where this was an enhancement, can you elaborate as to why you think it is?
This isnt meant as a troll I’m genuinely curious as the only enhancements I can see from this and that I have had articulated to me is freeps having an easier time obtaining gear. Please spell it out for us, how is this an enhancement?
If it isnt broke (the dp system) fix it anyway? Not following the enhancement logic here….
Well one of the few things in the moors that works is about to change - gone are destiny points and stones, in are turby commendation coins.
While this is no big issue on the whole, its pointless, but hey its no big deal..
freep pots continue to be uber compared to ours - but fear not we have dof pots, except now you can't grind dull/glimmering stones for them - you can buy a single stack for every 10 kills you make.
So your creep cannot stack up on pots (aka crafting in freepland) they have to get multiple kills to buy them 5 at a time.
or are freeps only allowed to use pots they have earned in the same way on the moors then and the rest are locked out.. no? oh ok..
Wait a sec, this is going to apply on Stun, morale and root pots as well? Or just the ED pots?
Lots of questions were left unanswered but people seem to be assuming that what is currently available on the vendors now (basic moral, power, stun, root, ect) for silver will stay but that you will need to use commendations to buy what you used to barter Delving stones for. However, the blog also says that npcs in the Delving will now drop consumables directly so farming them directly may be a reasonable options depending on drop rates.
I had a good chat with a few creeps in a private chat last night while logged, these are people whom I have learned a lot from. None of us could see where this was an enhancement, can you elaborate as to why you think it is?
This isnt meant as a troll I’m genuinely curious as the only enhancements I can see from this and that I have had articulated to me is freeps having an easier time obtaining gear. Please spell it out for us, how is this an enhancement?
If it isnt broke (the dp system) fix it anyway? Not following the enhancement logic here….
I meant in principal there is an element of gaining rewards other than ranking for actual pvp - this in iteslf is not a bad thing,
The potential for healing classes to leach inf off shop bought ba's for example; that is healers getting a more even share, although infamy rather than chocolate coins would be the real issue, in fact its screaming at you again, if they can share commodations for healing, why not inf, like they have been asked to 10000 times.
Remember all those dps classes asking for things to be based on kb deeds? lol
The pots and dp buff issue is the flaw in this sytem, its screaming at you from the diary.
Originally Posted by stoffi
Wait a sec, this is going to apply on Stun, morale and root pots as well? Or just the ED pots?
Nobody knows stoff, lets assume vendor pots remain then: lets be honest getting pre-combat 10s anti CC from a dof pot? or using a stun pot with a small delay once you are stunned... which helps more in a freep nuke environment..erm
Heal pots - dof are 50% more effective... Armour pots, resistance pots - none of these are available at the vendor.
I note a few freeps saying whats the issue, remove the ability for them to use crafted pots and food on the moors and see how happy they are then. hmm?
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Also i dont think freeps have a advantage on pots at all , ive seen both and both compare,delving stuff is the same etc.... and making them? well if you dont have a scholar then you have to buy them which can be pretty expensive.
You don't need a scholar.... you can barter Marks at a Skirm Camp or barter dull stones atm for pots...
I meant in principal there is an element of gaining rewards other than ranking for actual pvp - this in iteslf is not a bad thing,
The potential for healing classes to leach inf off shop bought ba's for example; that is healers getting a more even share, although infamy rather than chocolate coins would be the real issue, in fact its screaming at you again, if they can share commodations for healing, why not inf, like they have been asked to 10000 times.
Remember all those dps classes asking for things to be based on kb deeds? lol
The pots and dp buff issue is the flaw in this sytem, its screaming at you from the diary.
Nobody knows stoff, lets assume vendor pots remain then: lets be honest getting pre-combat 10s anti CC from a dof pot? or using a stun pot with a small delay once you are stunned... which helps more in a freep nuke environment..erm
Heal pots - dof are 50% more effective... Armour pots, resistance pots - none of these are available at the vendor.
I note a few freeps saying whats the issue, remove the ability for them to use crafted pots and food on the moors and see how happy they are then. hmm?
Couple of things:
1.No it’s not a bad thing in principal, but that principal doesn’t appear to have adjustments based on the realities of disparity between the sides.
2.The changes to affect are a positive thing for healers, yes this is a good idea but again we are talking about getting these off of kills primarily. So we come back to the elephant in the room(see sig) do we really need to go on about the disparity in damage output? Advantage freeps.
3.The flaw in the system isn’t pots or DP, the flaw in the system is the uncapping of stats for the ROI expansion gave freep players the ability to increase their DPS immensely. A corresponding buff for creeps didn’t happen we actually got a mit nerf which has just recently been corrected. That’s the larger problem here, so basing a new currency on a system that is predicated on combat outcomes, given this “problem” increases the flaw.
4.This dev diary was written by Kelsen, who is no friend to creep side and I certainly don’t believe a word he write, other creeps might which would be amazingly forgiving. So in this final aspect there is some hope that resources for this currency change will in fact be shifted to correcting the disparity in damage output. Remember U6 isn’t a creep update it’s an expansion, freeps move to 85 higher dps weapons the whole bit.
You’re trying to apply logic that appears to be centered on a balanced world, it isn’t, and this moves it further away from balance unless item 3 is addressed on a macro scale, not a few new stances….
Its really sad to see the direction this game takes.I only see hungry companies here crawling for money
I really like that they dont care how we feel about this changes or even if we(players)want something like this.
The dev says that this game needed that.This is sooooo sh***ty sorry.
What about the creep side?
What about the armor requirements existed?
Now what? freeps are gonna be able to get the items too?
i mean the rank 8 dagger for burglar for example
there wont be requirement even for class items?What in the world are these devs doing.
Why none is answering?why do they do that without even caring about the customers?
How is that gonna help in pvp?help me here i have so many questions
Damn it feels so wrong.Im a lifer so you understand you wont get a penny from me and im still playing
Guild wars will be your destruction for sure.You will have to buy it once and then no subscription
So eat dust then
[Tangaar Captain R7][Barukhazad Minstrel R9] In M.U.G.E.N there is NO magic button
1.No it’s not a bad thing in principal, but that principal doesn’t appear to have adjustments based on the realities of disparity between the sides.
(^)
2.The changes to affect are a positive thing for healers, yes this is a good idea but again we are talking about getting these off of kills primarily. So we come back to the elephant in the room(see sig) do we really need to go on about the disparity in damage output? Advantage freeps.
(Aye, but its something for healers, was pointing out returns for pvp is in principal not a bad thing, I didn't say these changes are wholesome)
3.The flaw in the system isn’t pots or DP, the flaw in the system is the uncapping of stats for the ROI expansion gave freep players the ability to increase their DPS immensely. A corresponding buff for creeps didn’t happen we actually got a mit nerf which has just recently been corrected. That’s the larger problem here, so basing a new currency on a system that is predicated on combat outcomes, given this “problem” increases the flaw.
(If this was a thread about crit rates and dps disparity I would have commmented on that subject)
4.This dev diary was written by Kelsen, who is no friend to creep side and I certainly don’t believe a word he write, other creeps might which would be amazingly forgiving. So in this final aspect there is some hope that resources for this currency change will in fact be shifted to correcting the disparity in damage output. Remember U6 isn’t a creep update it’s an expansion, freeps move to 85 higher dps weapons the whole bit.
(I myself was one of the 1st people to caution the U6 announcements for creeps as it will cooincide with yet another freep buff)
You’re trying to apply logic that appears to be centered on a balanced world, it isn’t, and this moves it further away from balance unless item 3 is addressed on a macro scale, not a few new stances….
(Nope I am highlighting that the change to dp's and stones is in itself not a good thing)
Response in parenthesis
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Quick comment: Because the currency is tied into combat results its fair to bring up the DPS disparity as part of the discourse. I understand why you don’t want to do it, and I will respect that.
If freeps don't have a scholar they can easily befriend one to help them out so I think the expense argument is moot.
I believe its a lot easier for freeps to collect mats for pots than for creeps to get kills for pots, and agree that there needs to be somewhere that creeps can farm pots away from freeps. The imposed commendation cap will limit creeps on how many pots they can get and how often they can get them, while for freeps they are limited only by their aptitude toward grind.
Also I'd like to see a battle/warding lore equivalent on creepside or these not be usable in pvmp freepside.
No Scholar in his right mind is going to give pots to someone just because they're tight , now maybe cheaper but nothing comes free with anything.
BTW cant you buy them still?????
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
I note a few freeps saying whats the issue, remove the ability for them to use crafted pots and food on the moors and see how happy they are then. hmm?
I don´t understand your argument, seriously
I mean Creeps and Freeps have different Pots/Consumables, either leave them as they are or make them completly equal
If crafted Pots/Food get removed for Freeps, the various Pots like Armor/Evade/10s Anti-CC/etc. which only Creeps have should be removed too
They have to afford Creeps the ability to stack 20 potions and carry over a 100 of them at all times (like I do now 'cause YES CC is that OMNIPRESENT in Moors play (for Creeps at least.. BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SIGN OF POWER:RIGHTEOUSNESS).
They're shafting Creeps with the currency gains too since Creeps have to now group in order to get kills more reliably. Hence, Creeps will be gaining less currency in comparison to Freeps.
The freakin' monkey coders continue destroying Creep gameplay.
Looking on the bright side at least... this change is keeping in that tradition... destroying Creep gameplay one aspect at a time.
GET IT RIGHT PATCH , the man is bring you down and the darn coding which you have told me is sooooooo easy to fix, SO GO FIX IT
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
No Scholar in his right mind is going to give pots to someone just because they're tight , now maybe cheaper but nothing comes free with anything.
BTW cant you buy them still?????
Actually I've found that if you treat people with generosity then they tend to respond in kind. Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised. I know tons of scholars that would help me out if needed simply because i've been there for them when they've needed something.
The small selection of pots that can be purchased from the quartermaster are in no way comparable to what you can buy with DoF stones eg/ morale pot from quartermaster gives half the morale that the DoF equivalent gives. The most important pots Armor, Resist, Evade are not available from the quartermaster at all even in a lesser form.
Delving sure but yet again thats pveing and going away.
Remember that the diary said the Delving NPCs will now drop consumables.
Current: Time PvEing in Delving -> stones -> pots
U6: Time PvEing in Delving -> pots (and other stuff?)
Until we know the drop rate and type (different pots in different areas, random drops all over, ect) we can't determine the new ratio of time in Delving -> pots so we don't know if PvEing will be more or less rewarding then what we have now as a way to stock up on Delving pots.
Also, starting with U6 we will have the option of turning PvP time (in the form of Commendations) into pots directly allowing us to skip the delving for at least some of our consumable needs.
My god...How about if we work on the 2 Creep classes that need the most improvement (Reaver and WL) before doing any unnecessary changes to the currencies. Have you people at Turbine forgotten the core of PvMP is the COMBAT?
I mean Creeps and Freeps have different Pots/Consumables, either leave them as they are or make them completly equal
If crafted Pots/Food get removed for Freeps, the various Pots like Armor/Evade/10s Anti-CC/etc. which only Creeps have should be removed too
My point was if freeps pots for pvp could only be bought with commendations and they were increasing the cost of pots in terms of grind, freeps would feel this is more of an issue - as it is craftable pots/food will be unaffected...
As for the equality of pots... if ur a creep, 10s anti stun pots kinda matter more given the CC disparity.. etc
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Actually I've found that if you treat people with generosity then they tend to respond in kind. Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised. I know tons of scholars that would help me out if needed simply because i've been there for them when they've needed something.
The small selection of pots that can be purchased from the quartermaster are in no way comparable to what you can buy with DoF stones eg/ morale pot from quartermaster gives half the morale that the DoF equivalent gives. The most important pots Armor, Resist, Evade are not available from the quartermaster at all even in a lesser form.
1.it still cost them time and money and there are few that would do that .
2.My main pots are wound,poison,fear pots and stun and root pots
3. Dont use the evade/resist pots for many reasons and if i used health pots everytime i need them id go threw 100 a day so i really dont waste time.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
So when is update 6, and is there time to farm 100,000 dull stones worth of pots for some of my toons...hmm
Now Reaver can get by with just anti fear pots and some armour pots, gold is not an issue so plenty of stun and root pots is here nor there.
Warg, well thats an awkward one, pre anti-stuns, morale pots, armour, resistance, fear, well all of them really, thats gonna be a grind.
Hmm spiders, mirrors warg to some extent.
WL and defiler, well a reasonable stock will help.
BA, well can manage with just fear pots.
Gonna be a boring amount of pve to compensate for a system designed to raise pvp
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Consumables were listed as costing 500 commendations. In a group of 6+ it was stated that we would earn around 30 commendations per kill. So in RvR that's, what, 15-17 kills for a stack of pots? give me a break. That makes it so much easier.
As for the reason for a commendation cap. With the recent announcement of Audacity I think the reason is pretty clear. The Seasonal mechanic. If turbine wants to release a new season of gear, they don't want people to be able to buy it in one shot. They want people actually PVPING for it when it comes out. I really don't see this as a problem at all. In fact, the only argument against the whole commendation thing that I have seen that is valid (in my opinion) is the fact that DP is going to be really hard to get and it will dwindle therefore boosting store use. Other than that these things have been asked for before.
Having read the audacity thread it seems relevant to this issue yes.
While I would still like clarification on the issue, a lot rests on how these new changes overlap.
As it is, am still gonna stock up as heavily as possible. RvR play generates a lot of kills yes, for one I am cautious of spending a lot of my life spam feared or CC'd from teh start of a fight to death. Am now waiting for more details as they are rolling out a lot it seems.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
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Originally Posted by ksjock
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I don't think Landy is that much poorer than Crick, is it? 
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