It doesn't matter... we lose all of our destiny points. If there was still a use for them, Turbine wouldn't take them away.
If DP is going away and the new currency is capped guess what that means. You'll have to use the old currency, TP to get your buffs (if you spend your 10k limit). I really dont trust these people, it just feels shady and the DP system wasnt broken it certainly was somethign that worked for both sides in the moors.
So why fix it? There are only a few explinations that make sense, given the larger problems this game engine has with its pvp.
I cannot speak for creep side myself, but the only way people will be heading in the moors in great numbers is to finally update the aging gear. The jewellery is still really old, same with bartered gear besides the class specific. if you want people to be hyped about a new currency update all the goodies on both sides so they want to do it. Most of this game is driven by gear, people have ran the same instance 20 times hoping for one piece of gear. Bring back some great rewards with this update not just a currency system that does not really change anything but annoy your pvp player base.
I posted this in the Creep Forum, but I'll repeat it here.
The suggested combat formula awards Commendations only for doing damage, or healing those doing damage. This leaves out the contribution of Crowd Control to fights, and puts classes based on CC (like the Weaver) at a disadvantage.
In many small fights, the first 2-3 skills I use are CC skills without damage. This is usually to set up the kill for the dps classes in the fellowship. Since fights end so quickly, it is possible that I would get no Commendations in this case, even though I made as great a contribution as the others.
The dev's should add application of CC skills to the defeated player as a condition for contribution.
CC skills would need to be given a damage/heal value. I suspect that would be a technical issue. I 100% agree with you, as my creep main is/was a weaver, but I don't think it will happen.
so, since cloaks will still require freep rank to obtain... is there any plans to revamp the cloaks to be more fair to the different classes? right now, a captain or champ can get the teal cloak with 84 might on it at rank 10, whereas a hunter or a burg who wants the same exact cloak (but with agility instead of might) needs to be rank 15.
wouldn't it be better, to have an upgrade every 3 ranks for the cloak, and the cloak be available for every class at the same rank? ie 5 cloaks available at rank 3, one of each primary stat, instead of spreading out the variations of the same cloak over 5 ranks...
If DP is going away and the new currency is capped guess what that means. You'll have to use the old currency, TP to get your buffs (if you spend your 10k limit). I really dont trust these people, it just feels shady and the DP system wasnt broken it certainly was somethign that worked for both sides in the moors.
So why fix it? There are only a few explinations that make sense, given the larger problems this game engine has with its pvp.
I was mistaken. We don't lose our DP. They just become of little use. I have almost a million points (940k+). I'm supposed to just use these on perks?
There have been suggestions this is just a scam to pressure us into use the Turbine store to hurry up and buy our skills while we still can, forcing up to buy Turbine points. While I hate to think that, if true it's pretty despicable. Turbine needs to figure out a way to fairly compensate vets with large DP pools. Let us convert them to infamy... let us convert them to Turbine points (either case would require an exchange rate... I'm not asking 1 to 1). Anything else is basically telling us lifetime creeps that you don't value us as customers nor do you value the play-time we've invested accumulating those pools.
so, since cloaks will still require freep rank to obtain... is there any plans to revamp the cloaks to be more fair to the different classes? right now, a captain or champ can get the teal cloak with 84 might on it at rank 10, whereas a hunter or a burg who wants the same exact cloak (but with agility instead of might) needs to be rank 15.
They ignored the buggy, limited r10+ cloaks. Don't really think they'll consider this.
This isn't about pvp at all. This is all about pushing the store. I've been subscribing since 2007; and yet, I get a stupid TURBINE PICK AXE notification every 5 minutes during the buried treasure event. Harass the F2Pers, leave me alone...
Or doesn't ANYBODY remember all our woes with DP the past 4 years. If there was one thing they'd fix, I'm glad it's the ol' faithful DP system that always failed......
*rolls eyes*
Last edited by soccercake7; Feb 16 2012 at 11:41 PM.
"Enemies in the Delving of Frór that previously only dropped barter tokens now have a chance to drop consumables for both Freeps and Creeps. All vendors that previously bartered for these tokens have been converted over to Commendations."
This was my favorite part. I believe since they added drops for creeps in the Delving that I have received . . . oh . . . . ZERO creep drops in the process of earning 4K dull stones. Yea . . . thanks for the "chance" again Kelsen.
More information is required about how destiny points will be acquired after these changes have been implemented. As you level really isn't specific enough, especially for creep side. I like the idea of being able to earn potions and skills through pvp provide the exchange rate for commendations is reasonable. Perhaps bosses in dof should drop sigils? That would be preferable to lockboxes which i despise.
We really do need clarification with the DP system, and how that's going to be affected by the change.
The concept - of earning my gear through PvPing - is good, and I like it. However, I want to know what happens to the older stuff when the change happens - are they simply losing their rank requirement? Or are the older pieces keeping the requirement, and the new stuff doesn't have it?
We really need more information than what Kelsen gave us.
We basically need Orion to handle the PR - cause he doesn't suck at it.
Why does this latest slap at creepside not surprise me? This has gone on for so long now it is not even slightly funny.
I and many others worked a long time to gather our DP points, and now, because SWTOR had a good idea you have decided to inflict the ideas of another gaming company on us? If I wanted to play SW, I would play SW. I do not want your blasted commendations, I want my DP that I earned over three years.
If the change is something you feel you cannot live without, then do us all a favor. Let all the FTPers into the moors, both sides, no charge at all. And let us the heck out.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
Why does this latest slap at creepside not surprise me? This has gone on for so long now it is not even slightly funny.
I and many others worked a long time to gather our DP points, and now, because SWTOR had a good idea you have decided to inflict the ideas of another gaming company on us? If I wanted to play SW, I would play SW. I do not want your blasted commendations, I want my DP that I earned over three years.
If the change is something you feel you cannot live without, then do us all a favor. Let all the FTPers into the moors, both sides, no charge at all. And let us the heck out.
No one is taking away your hard-earned DP. They will still be there in your wallet to spend on buffs. You will just earn less of them, Creepside, in the future.
And true, SWTOR would let you keep your commendations -- even if didn`t earn them (as the late exploits on Ilum show).
Let them convert our DP to commendations. Besides, the LOTR lore states that free folks earn Renown. In the books no one mentioned going forth to earn commendations.
No such lore that I recall for Infamy, but I very much doubt that any evil being would have a wits interest in earning commendations. The focus in Lotro of late seems to be, if it's not broke, then hurry and break it.
Hey, here is another great idea. I have two life time accounts,. Why not change the life time to be not the life of the game, but the lifetime of the bird on the rock near the tree.
Pouncival-Rank 13-Leader of the Pouncing Pwny
We Pounce Because We Care
Some of you are overreacting.[EDITED] I absolutely hope no one at Turbine reads this thread. I think this is a prime example of why there is so little interaction by the developers on these forums. gl hf
"...a wider breadth of rewards (refreshed on a regular basis) should create a ‘fill and flush’ economy that always has something to offer....."
This. Regular updates to rewards available for PvP is a real positive and, if these rewards are available within 'seasonal' commendation caps, will liklely introduce motivational spikes for doing some PvP to earn the available reward. Reward driven motivation has often been lacking on freepside where time spent has rarely been matched by the rewards on offer or those rewards have simply been out of reach (i.e. rank based + brilliant stone grind). If 'fill and flush' helps remedy this problem then its good news.
Other aspects of the changes i.e. future use of DP throughout the game, requires more clarification.
While I'm happy to see this as possibility to get all the pve-rs pvp more, I'm worried about the impact on freepside dp gaining. Many people creep because it's an easy way to get dp (I did it pre-RoI as well, a lot) and dp can really boost you for t2 raids. Levelling at 75 isn't an option though, is it? And I shouldn't be needing to roll new toons just for that (might be I have 9 level capped toons already, who knows). Do you think we should just run GS and StH now?
I'm usually a supporter of new stuff but this gets me slightly worried.
Sounds cool.
But I would wan't more reasons to rank up my Freep, not less.
Though this is not the 1st thing they should fix in EM.
For U6 I hope there will be a dev diary about Creep fixes, I guess we will se some Stalker and Weaver fixes atleast
and please people put down your pitchforks and torches, atleast wait until all Dev diaries has been announced.
Last edited by The_Legacy; Feb 17 2012 at 05:38 AM.
I've got a few question upon reading this Dev Diary (apologies if some of them had already been asked, I didn't take the time to read all of the reactions):
- first of all, commendations are won upon dealing damage or healing the damage dealer. But as a debuffer/controller (yeah, and DPS, but...), I feel a bit disappointed that controlling/debuffing seems still not to be taken into account into the victory process. I hope I don't have to draw the picture of the mezzing burglar, whose target is nuked down in 2 secs by a bunch of hunters before he has time to come to close-combat...
- (creepside) "low level" is evoqued in the Dev Diary, but no explaination is given for MP. So what's a "low level creep"?
- what will ranks become? As they are not required anymore for gearing up/comping up, will they at last let us have some cosmetics/perks/little something?
- (freepside) will the gear be updated? And will it be a viable alternative to the high-end raiding gear? What will rank cloaks become?
- Will "experienced" PvPers be rewarded for their fidelity to the game? Will they have, for example, a one-time quest that would allow them to gain some commendations as a special reward? This would ease the pain of some high ranked experienced monster players, who sit on a pile of DPs and will lose all...
- (completely not related): will we soon get a new map? Or will the Moors landscape be revamped soon?
The PvP seasons indicate we´ll get new armor/gear more often, I also like the fact that the PvP Armor will have no rank requirement and be superior to PvE Armor in the Moors (due to the PvP stat) - at least I understood it will be that way
Basicly it means no more PvE Instance grind to for PvP (the amount of time necessary to get all Skirmish/Draigoch/Orthanc jewelry, Orthanc Teal Sets etc. was far to much for someone who primarily PvPs)
I hope now the PvP gear will be better than the PvE gear for Freep PvP, that will make balancing easier (as any PvPer will grind out the PvP gear will many will skip the Raid gear)
Suggestions:
Concerning DoF bosses, give them Sigils of Battle as reward and make a new barter for Freeps (1 Sigil of Battle = 2nd Age Weapon with PvP stat, 10 Sigils of Battle = 1st Age Weapon with PvP stat)
Make them slightly inferior their PvE counterparts for PvE and slightly better for PvP
Make a new barterer that allows Creeps to buy skills with Sigils of Battle two Ranks earlier (that would definitly help Creeps from R6 upwards)
Q. Why cap Commendations?
The cap is designed to limit exploitive behavior.
All of the existing barter tokens will be converted over to Commendations upon Update 6 launch. The conversion rates are still being decided, but they will be small to avoid exploitation.
Automatic conversion of something that has been grinded to something that is capped, and calling EXPLOITATION any attempt to increase what I will have in my wallet is at the least... Pitch and Fork! And at the Stake!
Am(was) I exploiting if I grind(ed) money/marks/medallions/seals?
Why was the cap. that was initially implemented for the Currency Consolidation removed?
P.S. : Commendations being shared between creeps and freeps characters (10+), a cap of 10000 seems a bit low with the currently planned re-cost.
Wine Wine Wine. Dry Dry Dry. What will it be today ?...
Beer!
~Me
Don't push it. Don't push it or I'll give you a war you won't believe.
Automatic conversion of something that has been grinded to something that is capped, and calling EXPLOITATION any attempt to increase what I will have in my wallet is at the least... Pitch and Fork! And at the Stake!
Am(was) I exploiting if I grind(ed) money/marks/medallions/seals?
Why was the cap. that was initially implemented for the Currency Consolidation removed?
P.S. : Commendations being shared between creeps and freeps characters (10+), a cap of 10000 seems a bit low with the currently planned re-cost.
Call me Mr Cynical, but I'll take a guess that by 'expoitative bahaviour' what they really mean is finding ways to not use the shop for the longest possible period by grinding before the update......
I am hoping that this change to destiny points is only for the pvp/pvmp side of the game. I have not, nor ever will use dp for anything pvp related and prefer to use them for buffs that are available for dp. Could you please clarify if this change also includes the non pvp/pvmp buyable items?
Let them convert our DP to commendations. Besides, the LOTR lore states that free folks earn Renown. In the books no one mentioned going forth to earn commendations.
No such lore that I recall for Infamy, but I very much doubt that any evil being would have a wits interest in earning commendations. The focus in Lotro of late seems to be, if it's not broke, then hurry and break it.
Hey, here is another great idea. I have two life time accounts,. Why not change the life time to be not the life of the game, but the lifetime of the bird on the rock near the tree.
While I'm happy to see this as possibility to get all the pve-rs pvp more, I'm worried about the impact on freepside dp gaining. Many people creep because it's an easy way to get dp (I did it pre-RoI as well, a lot) and dp can really boost you for t2 raids. Levelling at 75 isn't an option though, is it? And I shouldn't be needing to roll new toons just for that (might be I have 9 level capped toons already, who knows). Do you think we should just run GS and StH now?
I'm usually a supporter of new stuff but this gets me slightly worried.
the dp reward have basicly been the same since lvl 50 215 moral /150 power perks? worthless now youll get more and better stuff now..
Appears to be another LI scroll scenario, remove something that was initially benefical to the community but now charge for it. Poor show and will lead to more resent towards Turbine and the store.
To me this looks like a ill disguised way of taking away "free" buffs and forcing us towards the shop.
Next step will prolly be replacing the powerbar with turbine points, feel free to use all the skills you want for only a small cost
Have a concern that I havent seen mentioned yet. With commendation shared on account and rank taken away from gear I think many will use the character who makes the highest numbers to gear up all their characters. History tells us this is the ranged classes and if there is one thing we don´t need it is more pew-pew.
The PvP seasons indicate we´ll get new armor/gear more often, I also like the fact that the PvP Armor will have no rank requirement and be superior to PvE Armor in the Moors (due to the PvP stat) - at least I understood it will be that way
Basicly it means no more PvE Instance grind to for PvP (the amount of time necessary to get all Skirmish/Draigoch/Orthanc jewelry, Orthanc Teal Sets etc. was far to much for someone who primarily PvPs)
I hope now the PvP gear will be better than the PvE gear for Freep PvP, that will make balancing easier (as any PvPer will grind out the PvP gear will many will skip the Raid gear)
Suggestions:
Concerning DoF bosses, give them Sigils of Battle as reward and make a new barter for Freeps (1 Sigil of Battle = 2nd Age Weapon with PvP stat, 10 Sigils of Battle = 1st Age Weapon with PvP stat)
Make them slightly inferior their PvE counterparts for PvE and slightly better for PvP
Make a new barterer that allows Creeps to buy skills with Sigils of Battle two Ranks earlier (that would definitly help Creeps from R6 upwards)
You do understand how long it takes to "rank up" a creep? ReRead the dev diary this is making it easier for freep players (what a shock) as you eloquently illustrated. Yet the elephant in the room remains (see sig). Its normally not a good idea to fix something that isnt broken, when you do that its a pretty good indicator you cant or wont fix a larger issue that is broken.
Time i played with my first character, Blackarrow (CREEP):
You have been playing for: 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours 22 minutes 56 seconds (oh yes, a lot of pve with my creep, I like it)
Time i played with my second character, Guardian (FREEP):
You have been playing for: 1 month 4 days 8 hours 11 minutes 14 seconds (oh yes, play freep is very bored, and more in last updates)
And I read things like: "All of the existing barter tokens will be converted over to Commendations upon Update 6 launch. The conversion rates are still being decided, but they will be small to avoid exploitation." Oh my god more than 4 months of play and the result of play creeps side from begining is tell me about i will get less conversion rate for avoid exploitation (I never was up pillar on bridge shooting melees than can`t touch me exploiting the terrain for take advantage of game, etc...)
"Commendations will be capped at 10000." Oh yes, but when you raise 10k, you will buy a buff in store for maybe 1000 more for 695 TP?
"Player A is defeated within 60s of retreating and is worth 20% less Commendations.
Subsequent defeats within 60s of retreat reduces his value 20% more.
His value cannot be reduced below 90%
His Commendation value would look like this: 200/160/120/80/40/20"
Oh yes FC's will stop of FC because they must wait 60s. Thanks Turbine we need it.
Only two things good...
"The awarded Commendations will be divided equally between all contributing players. Contributing Players are classified as any player that does damage to the target or heals a player that damaged the target."
Great for all healers that safe our ### without go in fellow or raid. Very good notice. Only hope that freep-in-creep don´t do ninja heals without neccesary (all know how freeps exploiters play with creeps).
"Defeating a player that is lower level will also return less Commendations in a similar manner to Diminishing Returns. Each level of difference the amount of Commendations awarded is reduced by 20% to a maximum reduction of 90%."
But sad freeps will always zerged low ranks... I think this will go with renom gain for killing low ranks.
deeman25845601
Re: Update 6: Commendations Developer Diary
Oh look, another nerf to creeps. The only way to acquire DP is by leveling? So once creeps' supply of DP runs out they will no longer be able to buy buffs unless they play freep? Please stop ruining PvP worse than it already is.
Agree... Low ranks will suffer for rank up...
If you want freeps go Ettens to pvmp not pve, don´t give them quests or gifts for quest. EASY
Rank requirements will remain on Jewelry, Weapons, Off-hands, Mounts, and Cloaks. As stated above, we see armour as a necessity instead of a luxury.
Because the Offhands are absolute junk, and the majority of the jewelry is to.
Yes, the PvMP can be used outside the Ettenmoors. The new season mechanic, associated with the new PvMP stat, will make the PvMP items more effective in PvMP than in PvE, thus preventing the undesirable overlap.
New stat sounds interesting, Would like to hear more about it. Is it a force multiply? So 1 in PvMP = increase all stats while in PvP by 1%? At 10 it is increase all stats by 10% so you would do 10% more damage/healing etc...
Oh and 60 seconds is nothing, Make it at least 120s. 60s for a drop, 120s to regain full value.
Make a new barterer that allows Creeps to buy skills with Sigils of Battle two Ranks earlier (that would definitly help Creeps from R6 upwards)
There is one barterer when you can do this. But in the time you found a key, a lootbox and got the lucky of find a sigil of battle, maybe you get the skill ranking before it...
At the time of u5, s4ms were allowed to be converted over to current currency.
CAN you imagine the justified fury in the pve world if they said at time of u5 that the currency you just worked for is just going to be dumped.
Im not opposed to what they are trying to do, Im opposed on a couple items.
One the cap.. its furious. You are saying a 10k cap and appearnce is 7.5k!
Two, some of us have built quite a large pool of destiny points. I WANT the ablity to convert these over somehow to this new currency, just like s4ms. 100 dps points = 1 commendation.
Three, this still is a very far cry of what is needed. Instead of providing instanced combat , where both sides are forced to compete in a smaller area, or balancing issues, like the ridicolous mini at the moment, or rework Creeps, to allow for actually varied build types , and not to depress us with the futitily of trying to change something so small it has no effect on the game.
WHAT the biggest issue is, is the rank gating to field promotions. Rank and Ability to compete shouldnt be tied together. ITS A horendeous Ideal. Rank on the freep side has nothing to do with ablilty to compete, at all! Creeps should be allowed the same sort of grind time to be able to compete regardless of rank. Play times of 4 months to mid ranks to be able to compete !
It should be near the same time /play time of 2-3 weeks at most, to get us to the point of competing. Give creeps more skills, more ablity to change builds, ARMOUR purchase, WEapons purchase via your new point system! Let us build and compete, let us choose between a few thousand morale and 15-20% more dps and crit chance.
This is the only way we can truly work this out.
Pvmp isnt a bad ideal, its just terrible implemented. They had years to sort this out and all they do is tinker slighly with it. Its time to blow some of this stuff up and redo it!
Its just another slap in the face to the poor people who only play creep side. Im glad that I enjoy parts of the pve world, so I have no issue rolling alts and going through the game again (in fact , honestly, so much work was done int he early part of this game between 1-30 , its really fun at those levels.) Its so discourging, I barely can ever log into pvmp and play.
There is percantage of freeps who dont play creeps, that play with a guard, champ or mini only and say.. hey whats the big deal, well frankly. If you are in that percantage, then you dont have anythign to complain about really. This change does little, a mini can roll into the moors with yellow quest armour and still beat ANY low ranked freep on any server in the game by pressing a few heals, wait for creep to run out of power and hammer then with nukes. Its that simple. Im sorry if you are in that percantage of players, then you dont have a reasonable perspective on why this change 1. isnt needed and 2. Better be adjusted to those players on creep side who have already played months and months of play time into the game.
You do understand how long it takes to "rank up" a creep? ReRead the dev diary this is making it easier for freep players (what a shock) as you eloquently illustrated. Yet the elephant in the room remains (see sig). Its normally not a good idea to fix something that isnt broken, when you do that its a pretty good indicator you cant or wont fix a larger issue that is broken.
Speaking from the perspective of a player that has 1 million Infamy and 2 million renown currently I am pleased with the changes. DP on creepside was implemented in the wrong fashion: Kill 3+ freeps to get rank 1. Take 20 keeps/OP's/An 30 times to buy all your skills. R2 Kill 7 freeps. Take 30... And so forth. Now rather than taking those keeps for rank 1 you can kill 50 freeps and take no keeps. Fun! It's pvp oh my gosh. The reason they have a cap of accommodations is so that you are prone to pvp more often and we get better pvp action. On creepside people will hit a rank and just log. Now you will hit a rank and work on getting your skills > motivation to pvp. On freepside its armor and seasonal. You cant stack them up. You will need to pvp often to continue getting whatever loot you need.
Also before you say they are making it easier for freeps wait until the patch goes live, first developer diary notes aren't full update notes read the creep forums for all the changes to wargs ect, there is alot of attention going into this. A) It's exciting to see that the devs are actually changing pvp! B) By this fact and how large of an update it is we can assume that there is more planned as suggested.
Cheers!
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
Speaking from the perspective of a player that has 1 million Infamy and 2 million renown currently I am pleased with the changes. DP on creepside was implemented in the wrong fashion: Kill 3+ freeps to get rank 1. Take 20 keeps/OP's/An 30 times to buy all your skills. R2 Kill 7 freeps. Take 30... And so forth. Now rather than taking those keeps for rank 1 you can kill 50 freeps and take no keeps. Fun! It's pvp oh my gosh. The reason they have a cap of accommodations is so that you are prone to pvp more often and we get better pvp action. On creepside people will hit a rank and just log. Now you will hit a rank and work on getting your skills > motivation to pvp. On freepside its armor and seasonal. You cant stack them up. You will need to pvp often to continue getting whatever loot you need.
Also before you say they are making it easier for freeps wait until the patch goes live, first developer diary notes aren't full update notes read the creep forums for all the changes to wargs ect, there is alot of attention going into this. A) It's exciting to see that the devs are actually changing pvp! B) By this fact and how large of an update it is we can assume that there is more planned as suggested.
Cheers!
Couple of things: My perspective is fairly simple, there is a larger issue in the moors that needs to be fixed. The DP system is not broken, it isn’t perfect either but from what I have observed it wasn’t high on the QQ list of must haves.
Fun Oh my gosh!!! Roll an R1 and go kill a freep, lots of fun yep its PvP. Here in lies the core problem with your premise you aren’t acknowledging the fact that the ROI expansion uncapped stats for freeps that made their damage output disproportionate to creep ability to absorb it. Actually our ability was reduced, recently corrected. So sure it’s a pvp zone and killing the enemy sounds perfectly reasonable for a rational for accommodations but you aren’t talking about an equal world. It isn’t about skill either, when half your morale can be critted away in 1-2 shots and you can’t garner the same crit, who’s the advantage too? (hint: it’s another nerf for creeps).
In terms of waiting, kelsen wrote the dev diary there is really no reason to believe anything he writes so you have a fair point there. That said, your premise in the final paragraph is largely based on a hoped for outcome. That hasn’t really worked out well for creepside players. Yes it’s nice to see they are giving PvP attention, but fixing a system that isn’t broken is a waste of time and resources and not heartening at all, at least for some.
The elephant in the room remains (see sig), and the room goes silent…..
So does "The role of Destiny will be changed to a strictly “perk” currency that will only be acquired through leveling." mean that we can't get it from instances anymore and that we are basically locked to the amounts we have now? I'd like to see some clarity from Kelsen on this.
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