Natural wastage of vets, inability of new players to rank and grow, imbalanced opposition equals a broken PvP system. I'm sorry but Lotro PvP is horridly broken.
Not a fan of the Commendations conversion... Period.
you wanna help creeps? disable bubbles, scrolls, and buffs from freeps upon entering the moors. Give us Balance...
Now all I can think of is the dude from "Amistad" saying, "Give us free".
(Yes, this is pretty much unrelated to the matter at hand, sorry.)
On-topic: if I had to create a new creep from scratch, at this point I wouldn't. I liked being able to roll a new creep and kit him out with passives, corruptions, and skills from the DP I'd earned on my freep. Oh well - those days are no more.
And 7.5k for a new skin is... laughable at best. I can't even think of a freepside equivalent...
"Sam thinks it a queer place, but I think he likes it, too." - Frodo
"If you're in advertising or marketing, kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
As others have pointed out: commendation acquisition and costs are way out of sync. Quests are giving far too little, Keep-taking quests in particular (how does 2k DP translate to 100 comm exactly?). Things cost far too much, several thousand for skins? Really?
Also low ranks have it bad. Skill costs are not scaling to rank properly at all. To get all the appropriate skills/traits at rank 1 for example costs about 15k comm? (off the top of my head, around that figure). In order to get 15k comm a creep would have already achieved several ranks. They'll be playing catch-up for ages.
As for the second rank of audacity costing 6000 comm? Unbelievable.
How these prices could make it past the testers I don't know.
If this is fixed - and it definitely needs it asap - I hope some form of compensation would be in the pipeline.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
I agree with almost everything said in that post. I agree that the veterans got the short stick however I don't think that really matters.
Veteran Freeps don't really need audacity as they will continue to kill creeps like cutting butter with a hot knife.
Veteran Creeps will still be able to gain their audacity through repeatable quests in the moors but most importantly, they already have all the skills and traits their creep need to be (somewhat) competitive.
Newb Freeps will gain commendations at a slightly higher rate than veteran freeps due to some deeds rewarding commendations as well.
Newb Creeps however will be hard pressed to gain both their skills and the audacity they need.
Veterans complaining about this issue seem to be far removed from the newb perspective. As has already been said, without newbs to replenish the population, the moors will die a slow and painful death.
Originally Posted by Voter
"-Make PvMP combat the primary source of Commendations, reducing the need to PvE for PvMP advancement.
-Place a cap on Commendations as part of a move to create a “PvMP Seasons” mechanic that encourages/requires player investment with each content update."
1. Commendations do not reduce the need to pve for pvmp advancement. If anything it is going to be equal if not more pve (for low ranked creeps).
I also agree wholeheartedly to this statement. If the purpose was to encourage pvp rather than pve, then turbine really missed the mark on that one.
Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath
As others have pointed out: commendation acquisition and costs are way out of sync. Quests are giving far too little, Keep-taking quests in particular (how does 2k DP translate to 100 comm exactly?). Things cost far too much, several thousand for skins? Really?
Also low ranks have it bad. Skill costs are not scaling to rank properly at all. To get all the appropriate skills/traits at rank 1 for example costs about 15k comm? (off the top of my head, around that figure). In order to get 15k comm a creep would have already achieved several ranks. They'll be playing catch-up for ages.
As for the second rank of audacity costing 6000 comm? Unbelievable.
How these prices could make it past the testers I don't know.
If this is fixed - and it definitely needs it asap - I hope some form of compensation would be in the pipeline.
I also agree with the prices for skills being out of sync with reality. If anything these prices will force players to grind even more.
After only a short time playing in the moors, I'm horrified. In the dev Diary, one of the GOALS is:
Make PvMP combat the primary source of Commendations, reducing the need to PvE for PvMP advancement.
I'm sorry, but this has utterly failed. On the primary server I play on (both creep and freep), there is a large population pve'ing constantly... flipping the map on one side (all blue) then switching to the other side, flipping it all red. Rinse and repeat, so they can farm the maximum amount of commendations. We are a low population server -- most accept this and are going along.
Please, don't let this be what LOTRO's PvMP will be. I urge quick changes be made, as this is expressly NOT what the stated goals were supposed to be. It's certainly not what I hoped for in the U6 changes.
I know in this thread there have been many recommendations regarding the numbers for the commendations, but I'd like to echo a suggestion I've heard that makes sense (along with other changes). Please LIMIT PvE commendations to Rank 0 through 4 ONLY. Once you're Rank 5... you've arrived. Just like when you hit a certain level and you have to start repairing your armor, now you can only earn commendations and infamy through PVP. My thinking here is that it will help low ranked creeps.
Maybe that's not a good idea, I haven't taken a lot of time to think through the possibilities, I just know, right now, this is wrong, wrong, wrong. There are lots of suggestions here, let's find what IS the best and meets the goals, which I agree with and support.
I've put up with a lot of broken things in this game -- I do not see myself putting up with this.
I'm gonna have to agree with most of the comments on this page, and the 32 pages before it. The whole system is really poorly done. What is the delving now, an underground parking lot? I think most people would expect a lot more professionalism when rolling out changes to a big game like this. After 2 days and some number crunching, it makes little sense overall.
In 5 years, I have not seen so much anger over a change in this game - sure people bump their gums a bit when 'their' class gets nerfed for a bit, but this is a unversally angry mob. People feel robbed, cheated and seen off.
Where is the response from Turbine? This is in the official discussion section of the fora - Discussion is a 2 way process, but this would appear to be one way? The addage about banks springs to mind - lend you an umbrella when its sunny, but demand it back when its raining....
Also, I would add that clearly the whole Bullroarer thing isnt working as a testing and quality assurance site. How many of you went to Bullroarer and why didnt you spot this? If you reported your concerns as strongly as you are now why werent they actioned? I have my suspicions, but there is no point in finger pointing other than to say that everybody could have played a role in stopping this ridiculous situation.
Last edited by Oren; Mar 14 2012 at 05:24 AM.
Reason: added the 'also I would add'
OK. So we are just about universal in our aggreement over the present commendations awards and cost for skills system.
So lets try and come up with some suggestions of what would constitute fairness. And give the newbie incentive to play PvMP and chase his/her ranks and the requirements therein.
My 2c:
1:Make all commendations awarded EQUAL the amount of infamy you get from killing or participating in the kill of a Freep/Creep. With a 10% bonus if you were in a group.
2:ALL creep skill commendation costs should be 1/3 - 1/2 of what they presently are. Scale it upwards in cost vs rank. i.e R1 class skill cost = 750 Commendations. And a R10 skill cost say 7500 Commendations.
3: Make skill commendation costs lower as you outrank them. If I were a R4 reaver that didn't get X R1 skill it should be cheaper for me than if I were R1. Example: @R1 = 750 commendations. If I were to get that same skill @R4 = 150 commendations.
4: Delving: BOSSES drop Loot-boxes and keys - Guaranteed. BUT to enter the delving 3 OP's held AND one relic.
There you go. Lets give this developer some real ideas to chew on. Right now all he's getting is grief. We're better than that.
Progress demands development of individuality; mediocrity seeks perpetuation in standardization.
In 5 years, I have not seen so much anger over a change in this game - sure people bump their gums a bit when 'their' class gets nerfed for a bit, but this is a unversally angry mob. People feel robbed, cheated and seen off.
Where is the response from Turbine? This is in the official discussion section of the fora - Discussion is a 2 way process, but this would appear to be one way? The addage about banks springs to mind - lend you an umbrella when its sunny, but demand it back when its raining....
Also, I would add that clearly the whole Bullroarer thing isnt working as a testing and quality assurance site. How many of you went to Bullroarer and why didnt you spot this? If you reported your concerns as strongly as you are now why werent they actioned? I have my suspicions, but there is no point in finger pointing other than to say that everybody could have played a role in stopping this ridiculous situation.
What exactly do you expect them to say? Seriously, what do you surmise would be their rebuttal to your post? If you have a look at the changes we got someone who made a reasoned and rationed observation could say that the changes were made in reaction to another game. Someone could also make the observation that the changes were made in an effort to combat the DPS problem created by the last expansion.
What we all have to do as players is be honest with ourselves and reconcile the fact we choose to play this game and its PvP. One has to assume that Turbine desires for us to keep making that choice. Here in lies the very base of the relationship going forward. Is the PvP community viable to merit investment and changes. The answer is yes, we have just seen it happen. The next question is why. Why were changes made? We’ve seen the arguments from the PvE fan boys “its only 10% of the player base” odd that this much development would go towards 10% of the base don’t you think?
Turbine is trying to improve their product, the ideas they put forth aren’t bad and look familiar to competitors (instance finder, commendations, audacity). They are competing, the problem is they implemented it poorly and it will cost them players. However the way we frame the discourse will help ensure engagement in the future. The language you chose leaves them now way to jump in and have a meaningful discussion.
Perhaps you are beyond that? That’s cool I get it, no worries there but let’s not be foolish. We’ve just got a release with some major PvP development which serves the “10%” and looks like it’s partially in response to competition. Now is the time to engage to get better changes down the road, or truly move on. In the end the clearest message you can send is your choice of consumption. They want you to play their game and consume it, if it isn’t suitable the competition is just as good if not better.
1:Make all commendations awarded EQUAL the amount of infamy you get from killing or participating in the kill of a Freep/Creep. With a 10% bonus if you were in a group.
2:ALL creep skill commendation costs should be 1/3 - 1/2 of what they presently are. Scale it upwards in cost vs rank. i.e R1 class skill cost = 750 Commendations. And a R10 skill cost say 7500 Commendations.
3: Make skill commendation costs lower as you outrank them. If I were a R4 reaver that didn't get X R1 skill it should be cheaper for me than if I were R1. Example: @R1 = 750 commendations. If I were to get that same skill @R4 = 150 commendations.
I would say:
1. Double quest comm rewards. Keep-taking quests need to give 500 comm+ each. OP and AN should give 200 comm.
2. Make comm gain equal to inf gain.
3. Reduce skill comm costs overall. Skins need even more reducing after that.
4. Scale the costs better. Rank 1 skills should cost 300-500 each, not 1500-2000.
4. Audacity needs to scale with rank, not stay the same. For example: rank 1 = 500, rank 2 = 1000, rank 3 = 2000, rank 4 = 3000, rank 5 = 4000, rank 6 = 6000, rank 7 = 7000.
These changes could be done easily and quickly in a hotfix. Let's see how long it takes the devs.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
1. Double quest comm rewards. Keep-taking quests need to give 500 comm+ each. OP and AN should give 200 comm.
2. Make comm gain equal to inf gain.
3. Reduce skill comm costs overall. Skins need even more reducing after that.
4. Scale the costs better. Rank 1 skills should cost 300-500 each, not 1500-2000.
4. Audacity needs to scale with rank, not stay the same. For example: rank 1 = 500, rank 2 = 1000, rank 3 = 2000, rank 4 = 3000, rank 5 = 4000, rank 6 = 6000, rank 7 = 7000.
These changes could be done easily and quickly in a hotfix. Let's see how long it takes the devs.
Don't do this, it would be too easy to get everything. If people want this there should be scrolls available like Mark Aquisition scrolls, to increase the gain, I don't want it to be this easy. Maybe ranks would be okay, but others no.
Don't do this, it would be too easy to get everything. If people want this there should be scrolls available like Mark Aquisition scrolls, to increase the gain, I don't want it to be this easy. Maybe ranks would be okay, but others no.
This makes no sense. Compared to the previous Destiny Point system it wouldn't be that easy.
As for your scroll idea - that sounds like you're advocating even more Turbine Store influence in the Moors'.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
But guys! You can buy the creep skills the store! No need to grind or be angry, Turbine already handed us the solution for only a couple thousands TP!
On a serious note, you remember a thing called radiance? I love this example, because it gives us a clear a time-frame of how much time Turbine is going to take to admit their mistake and change things. In the meantime, I'm not even going to go near the moors with my creep.
Commendations is by far the worst thing ever happened in Ettenmoors as it is now.
Costs are way too hi and should be fixed asap turbine.
There are many good suggestions in the thread for fixing this.
I would add ...
make all npc's give 10-20 commendations too (including DOF ones)
R5 Def - R6 RVR, WL - R7 warg - R8 spider - R10 Ba
Member of WoTGe
Founder/Lifetimer
This makes no sense. Compared to the previous Destiny Point system it wouldn't be that easy.
As for your scroll idea - that sounds like you're advocating even more Turbine Store influence in the Moors'.
Actually now that I read other comments, if they really grind that much, they should decrease the prices of the skills a bit, or increase the gain of commendations. If 90% of players are having the issue, it should be done. Like I said in my topic in 'General' forum, if all the people have problems, it then really must mean that there is an issue with this. But what I don't want is a game where I get insta-everything. The good thing about the Store is you can buy additional buffs so you get things faster, only if you want, but the bad side is, you can buy a lot of advantages too.
So I hope in future updates they will make everything balanced, not too easy, and not too Store-dependant either.
1. Double quest comm rewards. Keep-taking quests need to give 500 comm+ each. OP and AN should give 200 comm.
2. Make comm gain equal to inf gain.
3. Reduce skill comm costs overall. Skins need even more reducing after that.
4. Scale the costs better. Rank 1 skills should cost 300-500 each, not 1500-2000.
4. Audacity needs to scale with rank, not stay the same. For example: rank 1 = 500, rank 2 = 1000, rank 3 = 2000, rank 4 = 3000, rank 5 = 4000, rank 6 = 6000, rank 7 = 7000.
These changes could be done easily and quickly in a hotfix. Let's see how long it takes the devs.
1. This would just encourage more flipping sides to flip the map, which some here indicate is already a big problem on their servers. If I have two Moors-ready freeps, two creeps, and 10-11 other people do as well, we'll all have 10k commendations within a few hours.
2. DP gain was half of infamy gain, wasn't it? Why would commendation gain be twice as much?
3. Definitely agree.
4. Agree again.
5. That might work well now, but I eagerly await the wailing when the next season hits and the new ranks cost 8-14k each.
"Sam thinks it a queer place, but I think he likes it, too." - Frodo
"If you're in advertising or marketing, kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
It costs 35,000 commendations to get each of the 3 new armour set for the moors.
While the tyrant quests give the same amount of commendations, usually, it is roughly half commendations for the amount of renown you earn. So for each of the 3 sets, you have to earn 70,000 renown.
I'm 10k from r12 with 1 million renown. For me to even consider the new sets (and audacity for that matter), I'd have to grind another 7% of my total earning up to now....
It costs 35,000 commendations to get each of the 3 new armour set for the moors.
While the tyrant quests give the same amount of commendations, usually, it is roughly half commendations for the amount of renown you earn. So for each of the 3 sets, you have to earn 70,000 renown.
I'm 10k from r12 with 1 million renown. For me to even consider the new sets (and audacity for that matter), I'd have to grind another 7% of my total earning up to now....
It's ridiculous
Yes but you forgot the best part…. Seasons!!!!
Seasons Besides the various pacing changes Audacity brings to PvMP, it is an opportunity to create a seasonal rotation. Veteran players will be able to rank their Audacity higher and higher, while the potency of low rank Audacity will keep new players viable. At some point in the future, likely the next expansion, we will increase the max Audacity rank. The bonuses that Audacity grants will then be re-distributed so that the new max rank provides the same defense bonuses the old max rank did. New PvMP gear with +2 Audacity will be made available for Freeps, and Creeps will be able to purchase past rank 7. Lastly, we will balance the defense values at the now lower ranks to provide enough potency to stay viable. This should make entering the Ettenmoors for new players easier, while providing ample advancement opportunities to veteran players!
Check the bolded part that means that the grind your doing now to get the best rank bonus from audacity you will need to do again for the next season. Basically, you’ll be reset every season. This will go over big…..
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Check the bolded part that means that the grind your doing now to get the best rank bonus from audacity you will need to do again for the next season. Basically, you’ll be reset every season. This will go over big…..
lol thanks a lot!
I'm a completionist so I'm used to getting screwed over from back when F2P went live.
Turbine is trying to convince all the players who have been here a long time to not subscribe.....it's working.
They seem to be encouraging new creeps to give up once they realize they will be rank 7+ before they will have enough commendations to buy all the skills open to them, then only if they don't buy any audacity or consumables.
As I stated in an earlier reply, the only thing I like about this change is not having to farm the Delving for stones for the consumables. I agree that an option to convert some of our DP over, and they could have put a limit on how much, would have been better than the lack luster conversion rates we got. The new spider skills, 3 of them, cost 2K each. I have managed to get one so far, so yes the skill costs are way off, and the skins was definately a point to the store. Have I been able to purchase any of the consumables? No, I'm still trying to get the new skills. Not a happy camper!!
First the extange rate was terrible 1000 dull 500 glimmering stones and 8 lum for 4k Commendations??? Those took hours to gather. 125 Commendations for 5 potions are you serious!!!! it takes more than doing an outpost to get 5 potions!!!!!
Second My 200k destiny points are now virtually usless. And skills still cost 2k Commendations. so i have to grind for a full day to get 1 skill as for before i could do 2-3 quest????
Third You just screwed veteran players because the easiest way to get Commendations is to get maps!!! already have all my maps!!!
Fourth (which im sure atm is not a problem) There is a cap on Commendations??? why bother if you made it so difficult to get them. Now I understand with the additon of audacity if it was easy to get it would be overpowered. But It should not take every quest in the moors to get 1 skill. Rase the cost of audacity but make Commendations more plentiful.
Finaly WHAT IS DOF GOOD FOR ANY MORE??? so freeps can not pvp in a pvp area????? 4 Commendations for killing a hobbit npc YEAH!! only 500 more for my skill.
I dont remember anyone complaining about the currency
I am very upset about this.
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT
meanwhile hunters can still get on the pillars while creeps can not.
that little stair in TA you still need to jump over it
Definitely need an official response to this because many people won't know whether to save their earned Comm ready for the fix or to deal with the absurd costs if the fix is too far away.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
I am very disappointed in Turbine, they are experts in convincing us they are always able to make things worse than they already are. I am furious about the Destiny Points scam. Having 9 characters at the level cap I won't be able to get anymore destiny points, so they are turned in a finite currency with no chance to get them except deleting a toon and releveling it to 65 (as 65 to 75 doesn't award any destiny points). This was originally one of the major points of VIP: the access of destiny points. It is pretty useless now: all things added after F2P launch and apart from new regions, VIP's have to pay for them aswell: stat tomes, relic removal scrolls, sturdy steel keys, treasure hunt pickaxes. I'm a lifer myself, but others have to actually pay 15 bucks a month + buy turbine points if they don't want to grind themselves into oblivion? All we get is a beggar's amend of 500 turbine points, it should be doubled atleast with all these enforcements. As they always add new things before you had the time to save those up for the things you want to buy. In DDO you got 1000 turbine points during the christmas period, ofcourse they forget to do that in LotRO. Turbine should make VIP feel like being VIP again. There should be either the option to pay monthly to get everything or to buy the other things from the store à la carte as a premium.
They also add this new premium barter wallet, which should be a bugfix instead of a 1000 turbine points costing thing.
I am not playing on the creepside, but what I read so far means creeps have to farm all day for one skill or "conveniently" buy it from the store...
This is just another enforcement to drive us to their Store.
They only prove that F2P and Warner Bros mean the ruination of what was once a Quality and perfect game.
This whole thing is ridiculous and to those who don't creep, no, we can't buy all our skills in the store, we can some but not all. So, driven to grind out PvE instead of PvMPing like we should be, this is just a ridiculous change. 2000 Commendations for a rank 1 skill? The highest amount of any quest being 100 Commendations, that's 20 quests at 100 Comms, but wait, it gets better, MOST give only 20-50 Comms. I spent literally 8 hours PvEing because I wanted to see if Aud 2 made a diff, and what do you know, it didn't! Big surprise there...and when and if you get an all r7 Aud against an all r7 Aud group or raid, what difference did it make that you stuck this new random "stat" into the game, it equals out anyway lol, wow! Fights haven't slowed down, OP freeps with OP healing and DPS still come in and do what they want while all you can do is sit there and take it. Top that off with even the Freeps want to PvE now because keep and outpost flipping give the most Comms what you get is everyone questing, not fighting. The fighting comes here and there sporadically, to those who know Aud isn't a big deal, at least not yet. This whole thing was a fail. Creeps needed some love, and got some, but both Freeps and Creeps got the axe with this new "currency" and Audacity junk...you ever going to answer us devs?
What exactly do you expect them to say...etc etc etc
Having been promised, by Turbine, that there would be greater communication and dialogue, I would have hoped they would say something.Personally even the bog standard holding reply of -thank you all for your feedback, it is acknowledged - would suffice. I have also added several sentences with a question mark '?' - This is always a good place to start - where I am from, the purpose of a question being to solicit an answer.
Originally Posted by Thorgrum
Turbine is trying to improve their product, the ideas they put forth aren’t bad
Im sure they are trying to improve...but the concensus is that a very important element IS bad, very bad - in fact it is 'logging off and never coming back until it is changed bad'. Furthermore, there is the detected undercurrent, true or false, that the driver is to make more profit from exploitation rather than making profit from delivering a rock solid product and engendering customer loyalty. Feedback from the customer, commincation from the provider and dialogue is essential in any improvement.
Originally Posted by Thorgrum
The language you chose leaves them now way to jump in and have a meaningful discussion.
I presume you mean no way, rather than now way. In actual fact the carefully chosen language I have used conveys the mood, feeling and emotion I and others are feeling - which is useful feedback and a driver for the manner of the response. Internet based text can be misleading compared to face to face dialogue due to the potential for lack of emotional context - hence emoticons being invented. It is also a good indicator of the urgency for some response - 'do nothing' is seldom a good response in a moving landscape - sometimes a bit of oil early when there is friction will prevent the whole engine seizing.
Im sure they are trying to improve...but the concensus is that a very important element IS bad, very bad - in fact it is 'logging off and never coming back until it is changed bad'. Furthermore, there is the detected undercurrent, true or false, that the driver is to make more profit from exploitation rather than making profit from delivering a rock solid product and engendering customer loyalty. Feedback from the customer, commincation from the provider and dialogue is essential in any improvement.
[...]
I wonder if the problem comes from trying to shoehorn a PvP system made for a subscription game into one that works in a F2P game.
Most (if not all) F2P PvP games are Pay to Win. Despite some minor P2W features, Turbines model is largely "freemium" i.e. charging for content. There is no real content in the Moors though, only some repeatable quests. It's make your own fun.
So, how do they make the Moors pay in a freemium environment (so managers can make their numbers) without going P2W? The only option is to increase grind for skills and make buffs/pots harder to get. What did we get in Update 6? Exactly that. Even to the extent of making veterans regrind past levels, and forcing a "haircut" on tokens banked for buffs/pots.
This may be imputing sinister motives, but it sure fits what just happened.
Having been promised, by Turbine, that there would be greater communication and dialogue, I would have hoped they would say something.Personally even the bog standard holding reply of -thank you all for your feedback, it is acknowledged - would suffice. I have also added several sentences with a question mark '?' - This is always a good place to start - where I am from, the purpose of a question being to solicit an answer.
Although I don’t find your logic to be outlandish let’s not forget that for the most part the relationship here (at least in my observation) is an us vs. them. We’ve had a good month of communication but your expectations are high if you think you’re going to get “acknowledged”. “combat is too fast” was the acknowledgement we got for the DPS issue (which still hasn’t been fixed).
Im sure they are trying to improve...but the concensus is that a very important element IS bad, very bad - in fact it is 'logging off and never coming back until it is changed bad'. Furthermore, there is the detected undercurrent, true or false, that the driver is to make more profit from exploitation rather than making profit from delivering a rock solid product and engendering customer loyalty. Feedback from the customer, commincation from the provider and dialogue is essential in any improvement.
Again your logic is spot on but this is turbine/lotro. I assume you’ve been here a good measure of time right? Your expectations (which are logical) are based on what.... hope? Turbine isn’t great at admitting mistakes, I find it very unlikely, based on precedent that they will come in here, humbly and admit the implementation was bad. On the contrary I suspect just the opposite actually. However let’s look at your last sentence and measure that against commendations as a whole. I don’t recall communciation, or dialogue for this improvement ever happening. The moors needed work, but a new currency system that impacts the entire engine (DP accumulation is a factor here)?
I presume you mean no way, rather than now way. In actual fact the carefully chosen language I have used conveys the mood, feeling and emotion I and others are feeling - which is useful feedback and a driver for the manner of the response. Internet based text can be misleading compared to face to face dialogue due to the potential for lack of emotional context - hence emoticons being invented. It is also a good indicator of the urgency for some response - 'do nothing' is seldom a good response in a moving landscape - sometimes a bit of oil early when there is friction will prevent the whole engine seizing.
You presumed correctly, in an imperfect world, alas my strenuous efforts at perfection fail daily. Again not bad logic just presumptuous, it presumes you have someone who desires your opinion and feedback. I am assuming you have been here for a while, 2 years ago when people were asking for upgrades to PvP and they didn’t happen were the feelings and emotions accounted for? You make succinct macro points of assumed behaviors which are fine but you aren’t accounting for historic reality. I don’t recall a time other then the armor in the store bit where turbine came out acknowledged a mistake, humbly retracted its implementation and accounted for the mood, feeling and emotion of its players.
The engine is seizing (for PvP) this was a distraction the problem remains the builds for the PvE game are not properly accounted for in PvP. We now have competitors, ones in which will take a bite out of the player base. I am under no illusion that the changes to PvP that resemble other new MMO’s are partly to compete for said players.
As you clearly infer with the sentiment of your posts, these changes are not welcomed by the player base, and from what I can recall not solicited by them either. So we are left with having to make the logical leap to deduce why were they put in? Shouting them down isn’t going to induce them to come to the boards and explain the rationale behind changes or even get them reversed when the motivation for the changes have likely multiple sources. Some of which may have nothing to do with the players at all, it may be a business decision (less DP, more store???).
PvE continues to shine, it’s a beautiful new region. Commendations and audacity aren’t bad solutions, they were just implemented very poorly.
Wouldn't it be nice if the designers actually designed things in a similar fashion to this?
Originally Posted by another game-designer from another game
Player vs. Player games in [this game] are easy to learn and quick to join but offer a variety of challenges for new players, casual gamers, and tournament PvPers alike.
In PvP matches, teams of players compete to eliminate each other and capture strategic objectives to score points. Enormous diversity can be injected into PvP games by changing the strategic objectives—players may have to survive a strafing dragon in one match or destroy an enemy siege weapon supply depot in another. Of course, there are always opposing players to contend with...
Everyone plays at the same level in [this game] PvP, where skill and strategy provide players with the winning edge. All players are set to max level and given all the skills and gear they need to meet their opponents on even terms.
So in short, removing commendations from quests all together, and give people access to all their skills/equipment for free would be one step in the right direction.
Unfortunately the word [free] means [pay] in Middle-Earth.
Well I just checked out the repeatables in the Stoor village in Enedwaith. They just scrapped the DP gain on those quests. They didn't even bother to add another reward in its place. No-one is going there for the lousy 3 silver marks they left on them.
To say I'm not amused is an understatement.
If they made DP into a PvE perks related currency then why the hell did they remove the PvE way to gather it?
Knight of Iluvatar - Gilrain. Playing LotRO since july 2007.
Deleted it by mistake because it was white text on a white background !!!
I think we are agreeing violently.....and yes I am a founder lifetimer....and yes I suspect that I am no longer welcome here by Turbine as their business model since being taken over by Warner Bros has given the impression that it would rather I didnt play and made space for a more transient FTP population....if you do a 5 whys analysis, I think this is the root cause of the emotion diplayed in this thread.
The difference between absolute truth and percieved truth is reduced by effective communication - I only 'suspect', I dont know for sure - hence my repeated call that Turbine start at least by acknowledging the feeling of the player base in what is described as an Official Discussion thread. Based on their words I can objectively reassess my view and decide whether this is a game worth playing in the future.
Already they have the 'parental factor' to their advantage as I am a founder player - where, no matter how poorly your child behaves, treats you or insults you, they are still your child and you have an indelible bond that takes a drastic situation...or misundertstanding....to be broken. At least parents and children screaming at each other are still communicating! At the moment we are screaming, but is anyone listening?
At least parents and children screaming at each other are still communicating! At the moment we are screaming, but is anyone listening?
my son listens to me when I scream, like sgt hemmer used to tell me many, many moons ago "anytime you feeling froggy go ahead and jump". One of the important things (now that I know your status as a long time player) is your investment is much greater then mine. Hence your desire for the result you want is likely stronger. Ive unsubbed recently and am devesting myself from LOTRO.
That’s the choice I made to show my displeasure, should things improve I would resub I think overall LOTRO is a great game. In the end though its clear what the players want isnt as important as what turbine wants, the parent normally always wins. The sad reality is, most people haven’t equated their consumption to be the –parent- in the relationship.
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Originally Posted by Dillenger
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Re: Update 6: Commendations Developer Diary
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Re: Update 6: Commendations Developer Diary
Don't do this, it would be too easy to get everything. If people want this there should be scrolls available like Mark Aquisition scrolls, to increase the gain, I don't want it to be this easy. Maybe ranks would be okay, but others no.
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Re: Update 6: Commendations Developer Diary >:(
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