I've been playing on the monster side lately and every time i see a free people side player and i go attack them 1v1 the free person always wins even though i am 2 ranks higher and some times if its 2 monsters vs 1 free person the free person wins , all i am trying to say is that lord of the rings online pvp should be more fair and equal so monsters should be strong as free people and should not be afraid to do 1v1.
I've been playing on the monster side lately and every time i see a free people side player and i go attack them 1v1 the free person always wins even though i am 2 ranks higher and some times if its 2 monsters vs 1 free person the free person wins , all i am trying to say is that lord of the rings online pvp should be more fair and equal so monsters should be strong as free people and should not be afraid to do 1v1.
Either wonderful sarcasm or almost touching in its naivety. PvMP has never been 'fair', nor will it ever likely be my friend.
Follow on Twitter: @theartofwarg | LOTRO Players Council
Either wonderful sarcasm or almost touching in its naivety. PvMP has never been 'fair', nor will it ever likely be my friend.
This.
Notice how in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the numbers are 250,000 Orcs vs ~20,000 Free Peoples? The freeps won.
Until you reach a very high rank and attain a large amount of experience, the only power you have would be in a zerg.
Peaceguy
"With that, I ran back to Hobbiton, Land of the Noobs" - TSK
Either wonderful sarcasm or almost touching in its naivety. PvMP has never been 'fair', nor will it ever likely be my friend.
i used to play this game few years ago when it was p2p and recently came back just because i like pvmp and this game used to be way way way way more balanced then the trash it became.U could see rvr vs champ or guard ... in 1 vs 1 and the one with more skills was the winner not like now where u see 10 creeps vs a champ or guard with 15-20k morale,not to mention that got hit on my r5 spider by champs and other classes for 4k+.Creeps had more hp,freeps more dmg and much more cc.I remember fighting in front of ta and when one lm was pulling just 1 troll npc it was the advantage we were waiting and charge in the freep raid geting a decent amount of kills.Yesterday a min had 3 trolls npcs +my spider and still managed to kill me he even waited for me to get out of burrow.12k morale,bubble,heals....lot lot of dmg compared to us.And is not just me saying this,even higher rank creeps that used to play it before f2p agreed that pvmp was way way more fair then it is now.I fear that u6 won;t do much good either
There are so many threads on this writing a another response in any depth would make my ears bleed.
Originally Posted by Haunt123
This.
Notice how in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the numbers are 250,000 Orcs vs ~20,000 Free Peoples? The freeps won.
Erm I see you have left out a few details:
1. The ratio on the moors is closer to 1:1, often there more freeps than creeps on some servers.
2. The combined armies of gondor and rohan were not made up of 40% elves, 20% Musical instrument wielding artillery guns that laughed at sword blows and arrows, Lightning zapping, fire spatting non-existant mobile machine gun nests and 10% wizards.
3. A lot of free people actually did die at the battle.
4. Ive not seen aragorn on the moors lately - I suspect he will arrive in U6.
5. They actually would have lost were it not for an army of undead warriors who could not be harmed... oh wait there is a similarity...
You sir a are a turbine lore specialist i see.
Last edited by Oldwiley; Feb 16 2012 at 07:52 AM.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
This.
Notice how in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the numbers are 250,000 Orcs vs ~20,000 Free Peoples? The freeps won.
Until you reach a very high rank and attain a large amount of experience, the only power you have would be in a zerg.
no no and no, this is a game it makes no sense that 1 side should faceroll the other because that's how it was in the movie/books if that was the case none would want to even bother playing creep side.
even if you are a high rank your chances are slim of killing a good freep, yes it is that unbalanced atm with the dps and survival skills.
I've been playing on the monster side lately and every time i see a free people side player and i go attack them 1v1 the free person always wins even though i am 2 ranks higher and some times if its 2 monsters vs 1 free person the free person wins , all i am trying to say is that lord of the rings online pvp should be more fair and equal so monsters should be strong as free people and should not be afraid to do 1v1.
Ranks =/= Better or Stronger
1v1 and RvR are 2 different beast.
Sadly I can't tell if you're doing sarcasm or naive about pvmp. It has been that way since launch and didn't really changed since then.
On the brighter side though, learn the classes, their strength and weaknesses, make some friends and profit.
Originally Posted by Haunt123
This.
Notice how in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the numbers are 250,000 Orcs vs ~20,000 Free Peoples? The freeps won.
Until you reach a very high rank and attain a large amount of experience, the only power you have would be in a zerg.
Not really, its still possible to score pts on creeps side with less number, but you have the field on your side (and no, I don't mean to hug oneshotter, OC or keeps..).
Last edited by MorningStarSE; Feb 16 2012 at 08:10 AM.
If it isn't about FlameThrower, Grenade and Rocket Launcher, you're playing the wrong classes, race and game..
1. The ratio on the moors is closer to 1:1, often there more freeps than creeps on some servers.
2. The combined armies of gondor and rohan were not made up of 40% elves, 20% Musical instrument wielding artillery guns that laughed at sword blows and arrows, Lightning zapping, fire spatting non-existant mobile machine gun nests and 10% wizards.
3. A lot of free people actually did die at the battle.
4. Ive not seen aragorn on the moors lately - I suspect he will arrive in U6.
5. They actually would have lost were it not for an army of undead warriors who could not be harmed... oh wait there is a similarity...
You sir a are a turbine lore specialist i see.
nice troll, feel better?
@OP: Accepting reality isnt always easy, particularly when that reality is not the outcome you desire. The dynamic that you need to understand is how turbine works. When there is a lot of complaining they address the issue (see wardens). We now have orion coming in and doing something for U6, we also got mits brough back to pre roi levels which made them go up slightly. These are positive outcomes, resulting from a negative situation where players had to complain at length for months.
Stay within the rules, and press the case for better balance in the moors.
We now have orion coming in and doing something for U6, we also got mits brough back to pre roi levels which made them go up slightly. These are positive outcomes, resulting from a negative situation where players had to complain at length for months.
Stay within the rules, and press the case for better balance in the moors.
Yup thats positive, experience has made me wait and see what actually happens before I break out the champagne mind u - freeps will also get an update... Think to be honest its a case of another multi month wait to see if things do actually change for the better, been there before. Like many am also hoping they do, I suspect like many am waiting for the reality, not making any assumptions yet =)
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
I honestly just wanted to know how you feel. From 8:20 AM to 8:37 AM (US east coast) you are by far my favorite poster.
Thanks very much me old mucker and good morning from Wales.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Excellent lore knowledge you have there, sir. The Oathbreakers did NOT take part in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
I agree with your other points, though.
To all of those who were arguing against me, what I said was intended to be humorous. I was just pointing out how pathetic most of Sauron's orcs are, compared to the freepsies. I pvp on the creepside, and I agree the system is unbalanced.
Though I should have noticed that humor is not welcomed in these forums, which is understandable since pvmp is pretty much a joke to the devs I guess.
And... yeah... as if a greenie creep can ever hope to 1v1 a freep and win. That's what I meant by "your powers are zerg". I've seen large groups of creeps being roflstomped even though they were fighting from a creep-held ta. These guys were NOT good players, which was my point.
Peaceguy
"With that, I ran back to Hobbiton, Land of the Noobs" - TSK
Excellent lore knowledge you have there, sir. The Oathbreakers did NOT take part in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
I agree with your other points, though.
To all of those who were arguing against me, what I said was intended to be humorous. I was just pointing out how pathetic most of Sauron's orcs are, compared to the freepsies. I pvp on the creepside, and I agree the system is unbalanced.
Though I should have noticed that humor is not welcomed in these forums, which is understandable since pvmp is pretty much a joke to the devs I guess.
And... yeah... as if a greenie creep can ever hope to 1v1 a freep and win. That's what I meant by "your powers are zerg". I've seen large groups of creeps being roflstomped even though they were fighting from a creep-held ta. These guys were NOT good players, which was my point.
Lol well missed your humour; make it more obvious for simple folks like me ;D
Well I always counted the corsairs of umbar section as part of the battle to be honest, as their arrival would have spelt ruin for the free peop's, but nice to see someone who has read the books =)
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Lol well missed your humour; make it more obvious for simple folks like me ;D
Well I always counted the corsairs of umbar section as part of the battle to be honest, as their arrival would have spelt ruin for the free peop's, but nice to see someone who has read the books =)
Heh, nice to see someone familiar with the books here as well. A very low concentration of us in the pvmp community.
IMHO, the Rohirrim were the saviors, as they fought and dispatched a large amount if not most of the Orcs. But let's not derail the thread.
Peaceguy
"With that, I ran back to Hobbiton, Land of the Noobs" - TSK
1. The ratio on the moors is closer to 1:1, often there more freeps than creeps on some servers.
2. The combined armies of gondor and rohan were not made up of 40% elves, 20% Musical instrument wielding artillery guns that laughed at sword blows and arrows, Lightning zapping, fire spatting non-existant mobile machine gun nests and 10% wizards.
3. A lot of free people actually did die at the battle.
4. Ive not seen aragorn on the moors lately - I suspect he will arrive in U6.
5. They actually would have lost were it not for an army of undead warriors who could not be harmed... oh wait there is a similarity...
Sure would be nice if someone had actually READ the books! Because, if you had, you would know that in the actual Battle of Pelannor Fields you would know that there were exactly zero (0) undead on the side of the free peoples.
In the ACTUAL story, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimili walked the Paths of the Dead and claimed an undead "army". Aragorn lead this army into the southern fiefs, joined the Southern portion of Gondor's Army, fought the Corsairs, defeated them, and captured their fleet. At that point, having fulfilled their vow, the undead were released by Aragorn. He then had the Southern Army board the captured ships and sailed up the river to join the Northern portion of the Army and, on arrival, found themselves joining the Battle of Pelannor Fields. A battle that was fought by the free peoples by an army that consisted of 1 Elf, 1 Dwarf, 1 Hobbit, and a not entirely unspecified number of men in the combined armies of Gondor, and the 6,000 Rohirrim Cavalry with 1 additional hobbit and 1 woman.
Certainly by the lore of the books, it is entirely true that there is nothing mentioned about any numbers of magic wielding men, dwarves, or hobbits in the forces of the Army of Gondor. Neither, however, are there any indications that, other than the undead Nazgul, were there any magic using orcs or men in the armies of Mordor. In fact, while virtually every allied contingent had a named leader in the books, there is but one named leader in the combined armies of Mordor - Gothmog - although there is a statement that the Easterlings had an unnamed leader.
It is also worth adding that the Armies of Mordor consisted only of men and orcs, with some small number of trolls and an unspecified number of mumuks which, contrary to the movie, were never described as being anything more than large elephants. There is no indication whatsoever of the presence of wargs in the fight and there is no indication at all of spiders ever fighting in any enemy force of battle.
One can assume that there were many people with special abilities serving the forces of Gondor - healers being mentioned. But, in the books, there is every indication that, outside of the elves, magic was virtually non-existent and magic weapons of power were extremely rare. In fact, the later category consisted of the two swords carried by Gandalf (not a man) and Aragorn, a fine (though not necessarily magic) bow carried by Legolas, and the two swords carried by the hobbits Merry and Pippin.
Just as clearly, in the entire lore of the Third Age, there is not a single battle of any size wherein a force of the free peoples was ever defeated by anything but an overwhelming number of evil beings - and those evil beings were restricted to men and orcs in all but the rarest cases, or included some number of goblins, perhaps with a number wargs, or an occasional troll.
The only enemy type that was ever described as being somewhat "elite" was Saruman's Uruks - and even then, they were dispatched with regularity by outnumbered forces of the free people.
Also, anything that was ever slain by wargs was always defeated surprise and by numbers.
Thus, from the lore of the Third Age, the entire concept of a single "creep" beating a single "freep" in any kind of fight is absurd. It would be just as absurd to imagine a "creep" that wanted to try to fight a "freep" in single combat. The only "creeps" that ever offered any kind of single combat were those of great power (Lord of the Nazgul, the balrog, and perhaps a troll or two) that believed (not necessarily correctly) that the fight was against an all but defenseless being (The Lord of the Nazgul vs. Theoden, then Eowyn and Merry) or unwillingly when facing an opponent of great power (balrog vs Gandalf).
Simple put, the desire to engage and defeat an enemy in single combat involves the concept of honor - such a concept was (and is) entirely beyond the experience of any "creep".
Now, if you were to extend the parameters of this game to the first, or even the second age, these facts would be significantly different. So might they be even in the third age if one were discussing the three assaults made on Lorien during the "War of the Ring", for there is every possibility that more than a few elves of power that resided there would have either carried, or wielded magic in defense of the woods, and perhaps the forces of the "sorcerer" that marched from Dol Guldur did as well. But, that remains speculation...
Anyway, have fun dreaming ...
Marisibelle & Melissabelle [L85 Brgs], Rosilyn [L85 Cp] One is truly rich who has friends.
I've been playing on the monster side lately and every time i see a free people side player and i go attack them 1v1 the free person always wins even though i am 2 ranks higher and some times if its 2 monsters vs 1 free person the free person wins , all i am trying to say is that lord of the rings online pvp should be more fair and equal so monsters should be strong as free people and should not be afraid to do 1v1.
First of all if Monster Play was 100% balanced the number of creeps would get too high. Another reason Monster Play is not balanced is because it takes more time to get to level 75 on a freep, then it does to get to level 75 on a creep. All the more you have to do is get a freep character to level 10 in order to get a level 75 creep.
Last edited by Subtotal95; Feb 16 2012 at 12:26 PM.
Sure would be nice if someone had actually READ the books! Because, if you had, you would know that in the actual Battle of Pelannor Fields you would know that there were exactly zero (0) undead on the side of the free peoples.
Aww bless - yeah I 1st read these books in 1979:P I went on to read them many more times; there were indeed no dead on the fields outside minas tirith, no more than there was more than one elf at helms deep, or for that matter that it was an orc chieftain not a troll that stabbed frodo in moria, the cave troll did not get in the room, although frodo did stab it in the foot at the door.. Hollywood made changes to crowd please =)
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
In the ACTUAL story, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimili walked the Paths of the Dead and claimed an undead "army". Aragorn lead this army into the southern fiefs, joined the Southern portion of Gondor's Army, fought the Corsairs, defeated them, and captured their fleet. At that point, having fulfilled their vow, the undead were released by Aragorn. He then had the Southern Army board the captured ships and sailed up the river to join the Northern portion of the Army and, on arrival, found themselves joining the Battle of Pelannor Fields. A battle that was fought by the free peoples by an army that consisted of 1 Elf, 1 Dwarf, 1 Hobbit, and a not entirely unspecified number of men in the combined armies of Gondor, and the 6,000 Rohirrim Cavalry with 1 additional hobbit and 1 woman.
Originally Posted by Oldwiley
Well I always counted the corsairs of umbar section as part of the battle to be honest, as their arrival would have spelt ruin for the free peop's
^ to be fair this engagement was crucial to the battle outcome. I said they would have lost if not were for the undead army, I did not say it happened like in the movie. Had not the corsairs been stopped the city would have fallen.
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
... it is entirely true that there is nothing mentioned about any numbers of magic wielding men, dwarves, or hobbits in the forces of the Army of Gondor. Neither, however, are there any indications that, other than the undead Nazgul, were there any magic using orcs or men in the armies of Mordor.
Um yeah that was in my post.. thanks for the entirely true, note the word entirely:P A nazgul was not beaten in the misties in a lvl 40 odd quest either:P
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
It is also worth adding that the Armies of Mordor consisted only of men and orcs, with some small number of trolls and an unspecified number of mumuks which, contrary to the movie, were never described as being anything more than large elephants. There is no indication whatsoever of the presence of wargs in the fight and there is no indication at all of spiders ever fighting in any enemy force of battle.
Um I didn't mention wargs, or spiders, while the ettenmoors would undoubtably benefit from a number of creep oliphants, the climate up there is rather bitter and we creeps are animal lovers. But now you mention it, if the freeps were not busy hugging minas tirith and came to mirkwood, our spiders would have played a glorious role.
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
One can assume that there were many people with special abilities serving the forces of Gondor - healers being mentioned. But, in the books, there is every indication that, outside of the elves, magic was virtually non-existent and magic weapons of power were extremely rare. In fact, the later category consisted of the two swords carried by Gandalf (not a man) and Aragorn, a fine (though not necessarily magic) bow carried by Legolas, and the two swords carried by the hobbits Merry and Pippin.
Actually no, other than the houses of healing there was no referenece to field medics running around the battle. I did joke aragorn would be arriving in U6, then again legendary weapons are 40 for the price of one it seems. Oh you slipped the word assume in there, like your assumption i've not read the books
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
Just as clearly, in the entire lore of the Third Age, there is not a single battle of any size wherein a force of the free peoples was ever defeated by anything but an overwhelming number of evil beings - and those evil beings were restricted to men and orcs in all but the rarest cases, or included some number of goblins, perhaps with a number wargs, or an occasional troll.
The only enemy type that was ever described as being somewhat "elite" was Saruman's Uruks - and even then, they were dispatched with regularity by outnumbered forces of the free people.
Oops we have derailed a bit; is the moors fair, not unless freeps are prevented from entering until the creeps establish the kind of ratio of numbers you are alluding to then :P thats practical...
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
Also, anything that was ever slain by wargs was always defeated surprise and by numbers.
Erm, not sure exactly how you can detirmine that, not many examples of a typical wargs life in the books, but hey if it makes you happy... they are pack animals so I accept your point that you are likely to meet more than one..
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
Thus, from the lore of the Third Age, the entire concept of a single "creep" beating a single "freep" in any kind of fight is absurd. It would be just as absurd to imagine a "creep" that wanted to try to fight a "freep" in single combat. The only "creeps" that ever offered any kind of single combat were those of great power (Lord of the Nazgul, the balrog, and perhaps a troll or two) that believed (not necessarily correctly) that the fight was against an all but defenseless being (The Lord of the Nazgul vs. Theoden, then Eowyn and Merry) or unwillingly when facing an opponent of great power (balrog vs Gandalf). Simple put, the desire to engage and defeat an enemy in single combat involves the concept of honor - such a concept was (and is) entirely beyond the experience of any "creep".
You not know a lot of the creeps I know clearly.
Well done for reading the books though, if we could guarantee the kind of odds you are suggesting the creeps would not have as hard a time on the moors as we do.
Wow that took a long time to read and respond to, unlike my tongue in cheek previous post.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
This.
Notice how in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the numbers are 250,000 Orcs vs ~20,000 Free Peoples? The freeps won.
Until you reach a very high rank and attain a large amount of experience, the only power you have would be in a zerg.
Great. Then Turbine needs to start locking the moors based on ratio of players.
If there are 25 creeps out, 2 freeps will be allowed in.
Once we add 12 or 13 more creeps, another freep may come out and play.
Great. Then Turbine needs to start locking the moors based on ratio of players.
If there are 25 creeps out, 2 freeps will be allowed in.
Once we add 12 or 13 more creeps, another freep may come out and play.
lol .. I can see it now .. creeps queued up in front of GV waiting for the next freep to step out so they can gank them. Will there be a /roll for the kb ?
Remember, those 2 freeps, however, will get an impenetrable fortress with a gate built by Chuck Norris himself.
>.< Our wolf headed battering ram will win the day =) Charlie what the freeps gonna do then :O
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Funny... Free-People players in this game ARE NOT HEROES!!! They're merely yet more warriors in the battle against Sauron and his servants.
Some of you have identified the very problemw it this game's Moors play... Free-People characters are/have become HEROES in this game (a la Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, to some degree near demi-gods like Gandalf himself... cough... cough... Minstrels... cough.. cough).
I watched a single Minstrel take on 5 Creeps last night and blow 3 of them up before running away with near full health and a second bubble being used to cover their escape.
THIS IS A GAME FOLKS AND NOT MEANT TO REPLICATE Tolkien's works in every detail.
In order for a game to be entertaining, AND SUCCESSFUL, it must allow EVERY PLAYER (i.e. every playable character class) a chance at success. This is where this game's PvP coding has gone awry and continues to go awry. Freeps are coded to win and Creeps are left with frequent flyer mileage they cannot use (as a result of visiting their rez circles so much).
The only way for this game to become truly fair is for creeps to become a truly playable side (leveling/grinding for gear and traits and their own pve areas).
Thank you for your lengthy diatribe..
Wow that took a long time to read and respond to, unlike my tongue in cheek previous post.
Anyhows =) off to dream
I very much enjoyed your reply - and I am glad you did not take the tenor of my reply overly seriously - you are assuredly correct in much of what you said. And, I might add, I wish that the Moors were crawling with massive numbers of creeps every night, and I would enjoy dying to overwhelming hordes of the enemy. My experience (limited to "warg"fola) is that I get ganked by wargs constantly and find myself involved in attacking large numbers of creeps hiding inside fortresses 95% of the time - which is why I seldom go out any more.
BTW, I freely admit that those ganking wargs are probably the best "role-playing" group in LOTRO - mind you, I don't understand how it is any fun, but they are doing it it just the way such creeps would have in the books.
The best fight I ever had was about 18 months ago when two huge creep raids were out, a small raid of freeps were in TR, and we were under siege all night - it is, to this day, the only fight I have ever been in where I was on the defensive in any Moors fort - I died many times - and I had a blast.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the creeps on my server seem to have an aversion to dying. And while I have few creep friends, the ones I do know freely admit that my hunter has no aversion to dying - I die early and often every time I am out.
The true gist of my post was that I believed that the underpowered creeps should be hitting us with huge numbers all the time - Interestingly, I thought the new F2P creep concept would have created the exact situation described above - scads of creeps fighting fewer freeps - and when I hit 75 I headed out to partake in such fighting - only to find reality was anything but - which is too bad.
Anywhos, I do hope we all end up with more enjoyable PvP sooner rather than later - I just don't think that making creeps the equals of freeps is the right answer in terms of the lore of TLOTR.
Marisibelle & Melissabelle [L85 Brgs], Rosilyn [L85 Cp] One is truly rich who has friends.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Great. Then Turbine needs to start locking the moors based on ratio of players.
If there are 25 creeps out, 2 freeps will be allowed in.
Once we add 12 or 13 more creeps, another freep may come out and play.
Hahaha, GOOD POINT! Keep on posting it when some genius suggests that 1 freeps should be able to take on 10 creeps.
Originally Posted by Panahasi
...
THIS IS A GAME FOLKS AND NOT MEANT TO REPLICATE Tolkien's works in every detail.
In order for a game to be entertaining, AND SUCCESSFUL, it must allow EVERY PLAYER (i.e. every playable character class) a chance at success. This is where this game's PvP coding has gone awry and continues to go awry. Freeps are coded to win and Creeps are left with frequent flyer mileage they cannot use (as a result of visiting their rez circles so much).
People forget this is not a LOTR Simulator and if it was death would be permanent and freeps will have to reroll to 40 to enter the moors.
Sure would be nice if someone had actually READ the books!
In the ACTUAL story, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimili walked the Paths of the Dead and claimed an undead "army". Aragorn lead this army into the southern fiefs, joined the Southern portion of Gondor's Army, fought the Corsairs, defeated them, and captured their fleet. At that point, having fulfilled their vow, the undead were released by Aragorn. He then had the Southern Army board the captured ships and sailed up the river to join the Northern portion of the Army and, on arrival, found themselves joining the Battle of Pelannor Fields. A battle that was fought by the free peoples by an army that consisted of 1 Elf, 1 Dwarf, 1 Hobbit, and a not entirely unspecified number of men in the combined armies of Gondor, and the 6,000 Rohirrim Cavalry with 1 additional hobbit and 1 woman.
Anyway, have fun dreaming ...
Not one to nitpick at random trivia not related to the topic, but if you want to bank so hard on the statement that you have "actually READ the books!" then you got no margin for any foot-in-mouth errors.
'In the ACTUAL story', it wasnt only Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli that walked the paths of the dead, i.e. like in the 'MOVIES'. It was the Passing of the Grey Company that Aragorn led down to the defeat the Corsairs with. This Company included not only the aforementioned three but also the Dunedain and Elrond's two sons Elladan and Elrohir who were Elven princes in their own right.
Originally Posted by CharlesRollinsWare
But, in the books, there is every indication that, outside of the elves, magic was virtually non-existent and magic weapons of power were extremely rare. In fact, the later category consisted of the two swords carried by Gandalf (not a man) and Aragorn, a fine (though not necessarily magic) bow carried by Legolas, and the two swords carried by the hobbits Merry and Pippin.
Anyway, have fun dreaming ...
Wrong again.
In the very first chapter of book 1, you know the more happy-go-easy phase of the entire saga, there were Magical "Toys" given out by Bilbo on his birthday. These were most probably from Dale and were of dwarf make. So if something as mundane as children's toys can be magical then we can take it for granted that magic wasnt as rare as you paint it to be, nor common place either mind you.
So like I said, not only elves but dwarfs had knowledge of magic as well. No idea what "every indication" you are putting out here. The Dunedain had knowledge of magic too, not the flashy kind with special effects but the more subtle ones like healing and telepathy (Aragorn pulled Pippen back from the verge of death by his strength of will, Denethor mind wrestles with Gandalf when they meet up at Gondor, just to name two instances)
There were many more magical weapons than what you are listing. Sting? How could you forget that. Orcist? Glamdring's twin weapon that belonged to Thorin. And as for the westernese blades of the barrow downs, we can take it for granted that there were far more blades that existed but just not mentioned in name or detail since, face it, if magical weapons were placed in one of many barrows, the others were bound to have more of it and then some.
I can go on with pointing out more errors in your post but Im sure you got the point so I will stop now.
But that said, this isnt a event for event, word for word LOTR simulation. Its a game, and a MMO to boot. Any game designed around the idea to have a side inherently lose to the opposing faction regardless of player skills is a badly designed game. And the funny part here is that the freep classes who are so insanely overpowered compared to creep classes contain toons who get no mention in the books whatsoever! So every random footmen from LOTR is a Aragorn with superpowers in LotrO.
@topic: Yes OP, monster play is not fair. People talk about creeps having numbers and freeps having better attack and stats...but thats all a folk tale in most cases. In my server freeps outnumber and outrank creeps so badly that it isnt even funny that freeps switch every keep and OP blue on a daily basis and camp outside grams waiting to jump the stray greenie who comes out in search of slug meat (atleast it was this way a couple of months ago when I still used to play lotro, I see no reason why it would have changed all of a sudden). And the freeps used to camp grams while having ranger toons lurking next to them for backup while creeps on DD werent even able to session play as the troll, outnumbered buff or not. Totally fair, yea.
This would be the most biased and unbalanced pvp system I have played in any MMO. Playing a creep here is similar to playing a FPS game...
...without a crosshair.
The handicap is pretty much that bad.
Thus, from the lore of the Third Age, the entire concept of a single "creep" beating a single "freep" in any kind of fight is absurd. It would be just as absurd to imagine a "creep" that wanted to try to fight a "freep" in single combat. The only "creeps" that ever offered any kind of single combat were those of great power (Lord of the Nazgul, the balrog, and perhaps a troll or two) that believed (not necessarily correctly) that the fight was against an all but defenseless being (The Lord of the Nazgul vs. Theoden, then Eowyn and Merry) or unwillingly when facing an opponent of great power (balrog vs Gandalf).
Simple put, the desire to engage and defeat an enemy in single combat involves the concept of honor - such a concept was (and is) entirely beyond the experience of any "creep".
Now, if you were to extend the parameters of this game to the first, or even the second age, these facts would be significantly different. So might they be even in the third age if one were discussing the three assaults made on Lorien during the "War of the Ring", for there is every possibility that more than a few elves of power that resided there would have either carried, or wielded magic in defense of the woods, and perhaps the forces of the "sorcerer" that marched from Dol Guldur did as well. But, that remains speculation...
Anyway, have fun dreaming ...
I seem to remember a certain Uruk in the TWO TOWERS at one point durring the episode where Merry and Pip get captured claiming that he was the one who had defeated the Captain (Boromir) and was therefore the one making the decisions. (or something along those lines). So nice try, but not true.
Finally, I remember the Rohirim who then assailed that group later describing how Eomir had dismounted to fight the Uruk captain 1v1.
In fact there is the part in Moria when an Orc warrior dashes in, DODGES both Boromir and Aragorns blades, and gives Frodo a stab that everyone believes to have killed him before finally being dispatched (there was no troll in the book).
So actually several cases of pretty impressive 1v1 and even a 1v fellowship battle.
If a creep reaches the rank of, say, "lieutenant" or "commander", he has pretty much become eligible to challenge a freep to 1v1 combat lore-wise.
Assuming that is an exceptional freep hero, because if we are talking in generic terms about freeps in the game, the sheer number of super hero's begs the question of why they were worried about the war at all.
Lore has already unravelled as an argument with the nature of the classes, numbers of them. I can think of no weaker argument then suggesting freeps should always have the advantage in the game based on lore. If this was the case we should be fighting large numbers of average men at arms with almost no special abilities...
Just everyone drop the lore argument >.< its got more flaws in it than a badly written essay kept on top of the empire state.
Last edited by Oldwiley; Feb 18 2012 at 03:15 PM.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
I don't play creep much but if I'm not mistaken their skills and such never get boosts do they? All the creeps get when a new expansion comes out is a level raise which increases morale and power but nothing else, whereas freeps get massive gains in stats and armor causing the imbalance? I'm not sure if this is true but its my theory.
To be honest, they have to keep to the lore, so some classes are just not played right, like Wargs, they are designed to be played with other wargs in a Warg Pack, not ment for solo until high ranks. However, I can very easily solo freeps on my r5 BA, even thouhg he is mostly stroebought, I just requires skill. If you spend $150 on your creep to max him out, but didnt know how to play him, that makes you stupid and a useless storebought creep, however, if you use $150 to max out, and then play your creep well, you can do just as good as people a few ranks above you.. or sumthing, look im tired so some of this mihgt not make sense.. goodnight
This.
Notice how in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the numbers are 250,000 Orcs vs ~20,000 Free Peoples? The freeps won.
Until you reach a very high rank and attain a large amount of experience, the only power you have would be in a zerg.
Other people have probably answered it but those numbers you gave are way off. There was around 50,000 baddies in total involved in that battle, including the men from Harad, certainly not 250,000 orcs.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
The argument now is becoming one of lore? Lets not be to silly here, were there any LM's, RK's or Minstrels at Pelennor Fields? Which charecter was it that was able to put a bubble around them? Gimli?, no thats right he was the one who was able to "turn the tables" if he was stunned and stun the hostile who hit him.
What is this "lore" that someone, sometimes is mentioning here?
In this game we have things like this:
1. Female hobbits in full plate armour riding through moria on goats and tanking Balrog.
2. Dwarf "sorcerers" shooting lightning bolts from their fingertips.
3. Elves in a bathrobes killing elite moria urukhai warriors with the sound of their $^&% banjos.
Are they ok with "The Lore"?
Or just you dont want to lose your godmode in moors...
1. Female hobbits in full plate armour riding through moria on goats and tanking Balrog.
2. Dwarf "sorcerers" shooting lightning bolts from their fingertips.
3. Elves in a bathrobes killing elite moria urukhai warriors with the sound of their $^&% banjos.
I loled hard at this.
@OP==> Yup, pvmp in lotro never been fair and, most probably, never will...And you know what? As a full time veteran creep, im ok with that. Im ok with freeps being SLIGHTLY OP compared to creeps, since they need to grind their LI and traits and levels ect... Im cool with that, really.
But when you look at the current situation, where im checking my combat log after a fight and find that over half the hits i received are criticals/devastated, where i get critted several times for ridiculous amount of damage (3-8k) within the same fight, where the tanking class can outDPS my healing output, where im unable to dismount a freep but IM losing my OOC movement speed, where it takes 3-4 average creeps to down 1 single average freep...
this is where im not cool with it anymore...
Last edited by whitefox1313; Feb 28 2012 at 11:53 AM.
@OP==> Yup, pvmp in lotro never been fair and, most probably, never will...And you know what? As a full time veteran creep, im ok with that. Im ok with freeps being SLIGHTLY OP compared to creeps, since they need to grind their LI and traits and levels ect... Im cool with that, really.
But when you look at the current situation, where im checking my combat log after a fight and find that over half the hits i received are criticals/devastated, where i get critted several times for ridiculous amount of damage (3-8k) within the same fight, where the tanking class can outDPS my healing output, where im unable to dismount a freep but IM losing my OOC movement speed, where it takes 3-4 average creeps to down 1 single average freep...
this is where im not cool with it anymore...
I need to take another crack at a defiler, if things have gotten that bad for them. Last one I fought was in HH, had me and 4 npc's on him and I couldn't get him down to 1/2 health. Once the yellow pee killed the hobbits, and I broke off to regen, we'd start again. I eventually just left. He kept farming hobbits.
Junior Member Online status:
Reputation:
Monster play is not fair
Poster of Note Online status:
Reputation:
Originally Posted by narthluk
Grand Member Online status:
Junior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Member Online status:
Member Online status:
Junior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Fix the lag
Senior Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
