Well. Due to trolling from all sides the previous one got closed. obviously I expect it to happen to this one too. Please refrain from trolling. Anyway, post your issues with runekeepers in here (the class not the players)
and hopefully we can get zombie to look at it.
I realize that many people feel strongly about the RK situation but again, lets try to prevent personal attacks.
if you play a runekeeper please post, (i don't care if it's in your sig or not)
i stated several issues in the previous thread, and this thread will be a calmer attempt to get something done.
those issues remain, also please /sign today to support the movement, or /unsign if you wish.
please give reasons for either option, and lets keep personal likes and dislikes/spite out of it.
ty for participating.
here is my /sign
and here is a list which i will edit as things come up, of the issues as we see it:
1: The rk healing bug where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.
2: The perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. our healing needs a buff.
3: People asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.
4: Our legendary traits seem very weak..... steady hands (which doesn't work when silenced strangely), fall to our wrath, even the healing capstone is only ok-meh,
5: Hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, there is no build whatsoever that will let us approach that.
6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.
7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! i can't find the source now, but it is sustained, hopefully someone can dig it up.
8: Our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all
9: Flurry of words...... doesn't seem to have scaled, and really has no applications.
10: Distracting winds..... has been tested, it drops about 4k damage worth of aggro (about 1 good hit), maybe this needs scaling too.
11: Our runestone falls through the floor, this bugs fights, bugs bosses and and also cuts our healing by 30% since the runestone is no longer present to use with rousing words.
12: Our runestone needs scaling, both with morale and healing output.
13: Lightning is a little weak.
14: Fire is repetitious, strong, in a good place, but mostly it's IEoF followed by FR.
15: The lack of an offhand, and/or lacklustre chisels
16: Survivabilty in the moors, particularly in light of what wargs are getting.
17: Our frost line including the debuffs needs a revamp and general scaling.
18: the lack of ways outside of cooldowns to cope with spike AoE, rousing words is great, but it's not enough by itself.
Last edited by loki84; Feb 15 2012 at 12:45 AM.
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
I think you should list the issues clearly in your OP and then edit it when other people add more. That way it'll make it an easier reference for Zombie to look at or for someone to copy and paste it and send to him.
I agree - I don't know what the 'issues' are supposed to be, but then I've just started a RK a couple days ago. If they were in the OP, it would help keep us all on the same page.
This post is much better than the last thread. I agree with some, but not all the items on your list. I still think attempting a blackout is a useless way of trying to get the dev's attention. Your OP, in of itself, is a much better way of doing that. All you need to do now is to list reasonable alternatives/suggestions for improvements as YOU see it next to the issues you've listed.
Lastly, I would change the tone of your OP slightly by indicating those are the issues as YOU see them. What I'm trying to get at is, that the way you present it, you come across like you're speaking for all RKs and we both know that isn't the case and since no one knows how many RKs feel about the issues listed, one way or the other, you can't even say its the majority view.
Last I know is that RK's (and wardens for that matter) are getting revised in update 6. Lists like this (especially when all the communities issues and grieves are in one post) make things easy for the developer to look at, while he is thinking / working for the upcoming update.
Threatening to black out is a childish threat. Let's all hold our breath until we get what we want... Let's not. First wait what happens in the upcoming update and talk about it, like adults. The RK developer has a plan and makes choices with reasons. We may not like those reasons, but that doesn't mean they're not valid reasons.
I really hope this thread can remain constructive. I hate troll threads. In any case, just let's everyone keep in mind that there will be people on both sides of the issue on this thread, and try to comment on what people are saying, not on the person doing to talking. It's when insults start flying about that these threads disintegrate. If you think someone is trolling you, don't respond. It's what they want. I still don't agree with the idea of a blackout, as I don't see it affecting anything, but having a nice calm place for discussion of these issues would be nice.
Anyway, I'm going to make some quick comments on some of what you see as our perceived issues. I'm not trying to nitpick, as you definitely have some valid points, but if you're going to present these issues as being from the RK community as a whole you should know what people think of them.
Originally Posted by loki84
1: The rk healing bug where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.
The biggie. This definitely needs a fix.
2: The perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. our healing needs a buff.
I would encourage you to both be specific, and discuss issues the class itself has as opposed to the perspective people have on these issues. ZC can't fix the fact that "many" feel that RKs are a poor man's mini; what he can fix are the things creating that perception. Furthermore our healing does not require a buff across the board, which is what you appear to be implying here. What we need are a few tweaks along with some improved method of dealing with spike damage. Our absolute healing output is fine.
3: People asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.
This isn't an issue with the class. This is an issue with people. And not just with people in general, but with a small minority of an even smaller minority. Most people who play the game don't read the forums, and I haven't encountered a single person in the actual game making that recommendation. Again, please try to keep the focus on problems ZC can actually fix.
4: Our legendary traits seem very weak..... steady hands (which doesn't work when silenced strangely), fall to our wrath, even the healing capstone is only ok-meh,
Yes, SH and FtoW could definitely use a buff. The healing capstone is more powerful than people give it credit for, but it would be nice if it got a little extra oomph somehow.
5: Hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, there is no build whatsoever that will let us approach that.
One-off crits are meaningless numbers that have no bearing on anything. The fact that you had to point out that this was on a training dummy, not even in an actual raid, should tell you something about its relevance.
6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.
I agree here. We need something, anything to deal with these things.
7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! i can't find the source now, but it is sustained, hopefully someone can dig it up.
I find this impossible to believe, and I'll not be convinced by continued vague references to a thread that no one seems to be able to find a link to.
8: Our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all
I'd agree here, were it not for the fact that we have never had fewer power problems. I haven't been in a fight where I felt squeezed for power outside of a few gratuitously long 3-man instance fights in ages. I haven't run out of power altogether before the end of a fight even once since ROI launch. In any case, SM is not supposed to be a solution for power emergencies. If you use it as soon as it will have full effect and every time it's up thereafter, it adds a lot to your overall power regen abilities. Even then, it's been a while that I felt I had to do that outside of certain 3-man or raid fights. A well-played and reasonably well-geared RK should not be having issues with power.
9: Flurry of words...... doesn't seem to have scaled, and really has no applications.
Aside from decloaking wargs, I've been struggling to find an application for this since I rolled this character. A skill with an overly long induction that requires us to go into melee range in order to apply a measly DoT and an evade debuff that's been all but outmoded by finesse...yeah, I'd say it's the most useless skill we have.
10: Distracting winds..... has been tested, it drops about 4k damage worth of aggro (about 1 good hit), maybe this needs scaling too.
Yeah, this has lost quite a bit of its potency.
11: Our runestone falls through the floor, this bugs fights, bugs bosses and and also cuts our healing by 30% since the runestone is no longer present to use with rousing words.
It's really ridiculous that this bug has been around this long. This needs fixing, and has needed fixing.
12: Our runestone needs scaling, both with morale and healing output.
Meh, I suppose that might be a bit helpful, but it's not a huge deal. It still does what I need it to in both groups and solo.
13: Lightning is a little weak.
I don't have any huge problems with lightning in its current state, but I think it could probably use a bit of tweaking to round it out just a bit more.
14: Fire is repetitious, strong, in a good place, but mostly it's IEoF followed by FR.
16: Survivabilty in the moors, particularly in light of what wargs are getting.
18: the lack of ways outside of cooldowns to cope with spike AoE, rousing words is great, but it's not enough by itself.
I agree that these are problems that need dealing with.
15: The lack of an offhand, and/or lacklustre chisels
Meh. I don't have any real problem with our itemization. The only thing I'd really like is if our stone could become a 1-handed weapon so we could get an off-hand, but I really don't see this happening ever. Trying to get the passives you want on your stones has always been the worst part of the LI grind.
17: Our frost line including the debuffs needs a revamp and general scaling.
Could you please be more specific about the problems you see with the debuffs? They're percentage-based, they can't not scale. I suppose an argument could be made for a bit of a damage buff for the frost line in general, but I can't see why the debuffs wouldn't be fine.
2: The perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. our healing needs a buff.
Class should not be based on perceptions. It should be based on actual ability of a skilled player.
Originally Posted by loki84
4: Our legendary traits seem very weak..... steady hands (which doesn't work when silenced strangely), fall to our wrath, even the healing capstone is only ok-meh,.
Our main legendary traits -- capstones for fire/lightning/healing -- that which does not kill us and glorious foreshadowing is actually pretty potent. The others could use a touch up but not a major issue. Btw: fall to our wrath can be double triggered by certain skills. Not sure if that is a bug or wai
Originally Posted by loki84
5: Hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, there is no build whatsoever that will let us approach that..
Looking at high end crits/devs is slightly irrelevant. I'd rather compare sustained dps of each class.
Originally Posted by loki84
6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others..
I disagree. I also don't think Dargnakh hits very hard. On my RK, I healed a 7.2k morale hunter on T2c awhile back -- before they nerfed Dargnakh's damage. The 3rd was a LM, but still...a 7.2k morale hunter tanked him.
Originally Posted by loki84
8: Our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all.
I don't know of any RKs who have complained about power issues since ROI. Self motivation not scaling well is very very minor.
Originally Posted by loki84
15: The lack of an offhand, and/or lacklustre chisels.
chisel with tact mastery + crit rating is very nice. There is a great variety of chisels/rifflers. Not sure what the issue is.
Originally Posted by loki84
18: the lack of ways outside of cooldowns to cope with spike AoE, rousing words is great, but it's not enough by itself.
Not quite sure I agree here. I think RKs need a better way to deal with single target spike damage. Word of exhaltation doesn't even cut it. When bosses can hit 10k on tanks and the bubble only prevents 3.8k damage, lol. Buff the bubble amount on essay/word and it'll be fine. Plus majority of spike aoe damage isn't frequent. If it hits the group you can leave them slowly HoT up to full morale and they'll be topped off before the next hit.
I was going comment on more but decided not to.
Last edited by timmyloo22546; Feb 15 2012 at 08:09 AM.
1.EFTA: Spike heal that restores a high percent of a toons morale (75%). 5 benedictions of peace traited (with terse narrative traited) induction halved, cool down halved.
2.New skill “improved motivation”: Self motivation becomes a group power heal when 5 benediction of peace is traited.
Other than that, I have no improvements to suggest. At a minimum give the RK the group power heal, that should greatly enhance the capability and desirability of the toon for end game raids.
Also...(wall of text warning) even before ROI came out, there were concerns about RK vs Mini in raids. In here ZC says "If raid leaders routinely turn RK's down, do tell. Raid leaders, if you think RK's are not worth bringing as a main dps or healer, do tell." http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ombie-Columbus
So, to create a blackout to "bring attention" to the devs is IMO foolish. These things have been raging on the boards for a while, and a handful of RKs sitting on their hands for 1 day will accomplish nothing.
This is not so much a ZC defense as it is a post to point out that things are in the works (yes, we don't know what they are) and the devs are painfully aware of the issues that raiding RKs have.
Also, all of us were negatively impacted by the backend light/medium/heavy armor changes.
If there is anything I would like to see changed, it would be something with that. We can become a little more unsquishy, but it take alot more work.
1: The rk healing bug where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.
2: The perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. our healing needs a buff.
3: People asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.
4: Our legendary traits seem very weak..... steady hands (which doesn't work when silenced strangely), fall to our wrath, even the healing capstone is only ok-meh,
5: Hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, there is no build whatsoever that will let us approach that.
6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.
7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! i can't find the source now, but it is sustained, hopefully someone can dig it up.
8: Our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all
9: Flurry of words...... doesn't seem to have scaled, and really has no applications.
10: Distracting winds..... has been tested, it drops about 4k damage worth of aggro (about 1 good hit), maybe this needs scaling too.
11: Our runestone falls through the floor, this bugs fights, bugs bosses and and also cuts our healing by 30% since the runestone is no longer present to use with rousing words.
12: Our runestone needs scaling, both with morale and healing output.
13: Lightning is a little weak.
14: Fire is repetitious, strong, in a good place, but mostly it's IEoF followed by FR.
15: The lack of an offhand, and/or lacklustre chisels
16: Survivabilty in the moors, particularly in light of what wargs are getting.
17: Our frost line including the debuffs needs a revamp and general scaling.
18: the lack of ways outside of cooldowns to cope with spike AoE, rousing words is great, but it's not enough by itself.
1) never experienced that bug myself, but since it's there: no reason to keep it.
2) We are no minis ... But I can't deny that I wish Epic of the Ages would be more epic and take less ages to cast.
3) Rumor mongering
4) Work fine for me, I agree that +20% melee dmg is a pretty odd feature regarding martial training though.
5) You said you don't want to be a "poor mans mini", so why become a poor mans hunter? I dont get it.
6) Run away when he AoEs?
7) "It has been parsed ..." Rumor mongering #2
8) /signed
9) not our most useful skill anyways, also causes a lot of lags for ppl with older pcs :/
10) Never failed me
11) Exception/Bug is not a rule.
12) Nope, works just fine
13) see #3)
14) you forgot distracting flame, but who cares if they drop dead 1m or 2m before you?
15) Not sure why so many people hate them: Master of writs as a toggle unlocking all "Writs" skills for the cost of a bit more power is very handy and helped me save thousands of virtual lives so far and counting.
16) I hate PvMP
17) /signed. Frost RK sounds fun.
18) /signed. see #2)
Besides that: Runekeepers on strike is still a pretty silly idea.
Last edited by Zombielord; Feb 15 2012 at 11:43 AM.
I disagree. I also don't think Dargnakh hits very hard. On my RK, I healed a 7.2k morale hunter on T2c awhile back -- before they nerfed Dargnakh's damage. The 3rd was a LM, but still...a 7.2k morale hunter tanked him.
Actually, I didn't read what he had there that carefully when I agreed with him, and I would say that I don't have any real problem with how squishy we are directly, only that we need some sort of survival skill because every other light armor class has one and we are definitely the squishiest class in the game. If you're getting one-shotted by Dargnakh though, you're doing it wrong. I've seen his rock throw one-shot people at his highest damage buff level, but that's would be because they were at low morale to begin with, either because they got themselves pounded ahead of time or because they had ###### gear. (Although I would like to point out that they did not nerf Dargnakh's damage on T2, only T1.)
I agree, more or less, with your list, although a blackout is a bit silly.
You may want to clarify #15:
RK LI stone is a lottery for stats and getting out of combat regen or might/agi/parry is really annoying. 1-hand classes get to choose their offhand and they are always capable of getting better stats than what 2h classes can get. Fix it for all 2h LI. It's not a grind; It's lazy design.
Second, posts saying don't bother talking about balance because the devs know what they're doing or assuming they will fix the right problems is just naive.
"2. New skill “improved motivation”: Self motivation becomes a group power heal when 5 benediction of peace is traited."
No. Healing RKs are less likely than dps RKs to need power.
Finally, utility of RKs. What makes RK an equal choice for a spot when compared to other classes? Currently this aspect is lacking.
EFTA: Spike heal that restores a high percent of a toons morale (75%). 5 benedictions of peace traited (with terse narrative traited) induction halved, cool down halved.
A percentage-based heal will never happen, and shouldn't happen, because it wouldn't scale with the gear of the player using it and wouldn't be able to crit. A level 45 RK with yellow gear shouldn't be healing as much as a 75 RK with teal gear with any skill. Furthermore without know what the induction is or what the cooldown is it's impossible to judge how useful it would be. Simply suggesting that they increase the cooldown and heal while reducing the induction to barely there or removing it altogether is a far more reasonable way to go about this. As for magnitude, if we get even half the morale of the average tank I'd be satisfied.
"2. New skill “improved motivation”: Self motivation becomes a group power heal when 5 benediction of peace is traited."
No. Healing RKs are less likely than dps RKs to need power.
Finally, utility of RKs. What makes RK an equal choice for a spot when compared to other classes? Currently this aspect is lacking.
Just wondering if you read thoroughly before commenting? I draw your attention to "a group power heal".
Ok, so an RK doesn't really run out of power while healing... But then you said "utility of RKs" is lacking? So why say no to an increase in group utility? I would think that a group power heal would surely qualify as a group utility?
1. EFTA: Spike heal that restores a high percent of a toons morale (75%). 5 benedictions of peace traited (with terse narrative traited) induction halved, cool down halved.
Awww... That would be awesome, although a heal with 2 second induction and no cooldown able to heal 75% morale seems a bit overpowered
I can see the combat log entry already:
Thorgrum applied a Critical Heal with Epic for the Ages for 10612 Morale to TankzALot!
<irony>No worries, we'll get slapped with power cost increases on our other skills until EftA is our best heal.</irony>
I'm sure we'll see a dev diary on class changes Soon (or some variant of soon).
A percentage-based heal will never happen, and shouldn't happen, because it wouldn't scale with the gear of the player using it and wouldn't be able to crit. A level 45 RK with yellow gear shouldn't be healing as much as a 75 RK with teal gear with any skill. Furthermore without know what the induction is or what the cooldown is it's impossible to judge how useful it would be. Simply suggesting that they increase the cooldown and heal while reducing the induction to barely there or removing it altogether is a far more reasonable way to go about this. As for magnitude, if we get even half the morale of the average tank I'd be satisfied.
"never happen" is not a very good way to start a reply because its an absolute comment you couldnt possibly know. that often leads to the reader assuming you are either arrogant, trolling or simply unable to articulate your point better.
A percentage based heal based on base morale of the oon being healed, should be simple enough. if my morale is 7000 that equals 5250 capped at base so if I have 5000 and someone uses EFTA on me I'll only recieve 2000. Anyway its not even necessary, RK's are superior healers as is without EFTA but I do recall ZC wanting to make this skill more useful.
I really love my RK but I feel like a charity case when I raid with my Kin. In just about every aspect of the game I'm the choice to bring only if they can't find a Mini or a Hunter.
6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.
Rune-keepers, minstrels, lore-masters have the same amount of base morale. While minstrels and lore-masters can potentially get a little more morale than rune-keepers (one trait for RKs, one trait + instrument and non LI based stats for minstrels, two traits + off hand slot for LMs), that's likely not even the case in a typical PvE situations (where minstrels will not slot Enduring Morale (red trait) or use a 'battle' instrument, and Lore-Masters may not have Master of Staff slotted either (red trait)). All three classes have the same mitigations cap. Light armour classes are squishy, all three of them, differences are largely insignificant.
7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! i can't find the source now, but it is sustained, hopefully someone can dig it up.
Not even close there really unless we're talking multiple targets maybe where lightning is obviously inadequate. That's a myth largely coming from PvP forums where people see nothing but crits (minstrels have high crit magnitude on some of their skills traited war-skald which makes their dps look more impressive than it really is once you compound normal hits and other skills). Minstrels do not have anything that comes close to Perfect Imagery and its +30% crit rate for bursts of damage either.
Rune-keepers, minstrels, lore-masters have the same amount of base morale. While minstrels and lore-masters can potentially get a little more morale than rune-keepers (one trait for RKs, one trait + instrument and non LI based stats for minstrels, two traits + off hand slot for LMs), that's likely not even the case in a typical PvE situations (where minstrels will not slot Enduring Morale (red trait) or use a 'battle' instrument, and Lore-Masters may not have Master of Staff slotted either (red trait)). All three classes have the same mitigations cap. Light armour classes are squishy, all three of them, differences are largely insignificant.
A Minstrel can heal himself and self bubble no matter if he's dpsing or healing, a Lore-Master has Wisdom of the Council. Runekeepers have..armour of Frost/Fire/Storm. Hardly insignificant.
A Minstrel can heal himself and self bubble no matter if he's dpsing or healing, a Lore-Master has Wisdom of the Council. Runekeepers have..armour of Frost/Fire/Storm. Hardly insignificant.
Just wondering if you read thoroughly before commenting? I draw your attention to "a group power heal".
Ok, so an RK doesn't really run out of power while healing... But then you said "utility of RKs" is lacking? So why say no to an increase in group utility? I would think that a group power heal would surely qualify as a group utility?
I read it just fine. My response stands and it's pretty worthless anyway.
"never happen" is not a very good way to start a reply because its an absolute comment you couldnt possibly know. that often leads to the reader assuming you are either arrogant, trolling or simply unable to articulate your point better.
A percentage based heal based on base morale of the oon being healed, should be simple enough. if my morale is 7000 that equals 5250 capped at base so if I have 5000 and someone uses EFTA on me I'll only recieve 2000. Anyway its not even necessary, RK's are superior healers as is without EFTA but I do recall ZC wanting to make this skill more useful.
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether it's a percentage of a toon's buffed morale or base morale; I'm not sure why that would really make any difference. The problem is that a skill that healed a percentage of a target's morale would never scale based upon any aspect of the casting toon, which means that such a skill would be so inherently without merit from virtually every standpoint that ZC would never implement it. For one thing, it would be impossible to make such a thing balanced; a skill that returned a high percentage of morale would be tremendously overpowered on tanks with 17k morale, a skill that returned a low percentage of morale would be useless on squishy classes where a spike heal would be most helpful and is most lacking. I'm sorry if you feel that my manner of expressing myself makes me appear arrogant, but my choice of phrase does not alter the fundamental reality of the situation.
Originally Posted by Fasin
A Minstrel can heal himself and self bubble no matter if he's dpsing or healing, a Lore-Master has Wisdom of the Council. Runekeepers have..armour of Frost/Fire/Storm. Hardly insignificant.
The original statement that Equendil replyed to was complaining about how we're so squishy that we get one-shot by random attacks by bosses such as Dargnakh. Neither WotC nor bubbles nor healing can prevent a one-shot you don't see coming, so all light armor classes are equally susceptible to them. Not, of course, that we (or any other light armor class) actually have a problem like that, which is why the OP was completely off-base in that paragraph. Equendil never said we didn't need a survival skill of some kind, what he said was that when it comes to one-shots we are no more susceptible than any other light armor class, which is true.
Last edited by Telcharan; Feb 16 2012 at 07:41 PM.
We have seen a version of this bug before with Warleaders and were not able to track it to it's root. The reports of it re-emerging on Rune-keepers have caused us to dig deeper, but we still lack any reliable ability to reproduce the bug. In english: we do not know what causes it, which means we cannot yet fix it.
I encourage all Rune-keepers to /bug these instances with HIGHLY DETAILED descriptions of how they got this bug, or even private message me. Reports are deeply veried, even in this thread they contradict each other. We suspect it has something to do with server lag mixed with class interactions, making it a very difficult issue to track down. Reports have been mixed on AFE causing it; we do not believe that it is the culprit as some players have reported the bug occurring before they are high enough level to have the skill.
I wish I had better information to share, and apologize if any have taken silence to mean we have a blind eye on such issues.
A Minstrel can heal himself and self bubble no matter if he's dpsing or healing, a Lore-Master has Wisdom of the Council. Runekeepers have..armour of Frost/Fire/Storm. Hardly insignificant.
Hardly gonna save you from being '1 shotted'.
6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.
If you want to keep it calm, produce positive results, and have an impact you are going to have to lay off the hyperbole. Half of the items listed are nonsense, period. (Nonsense from a blackout perspective: is this one issue really worth a boycott of the class for a day?).
1: This is extremely important.
2: perception is not reality. Perception is a symptom of already listed problems, so putting this here allows you to call attention to the same issue twice, producing a longer list of issues than is necessary and exaggerating the problems to produce your own perception (that the class is broken beyond all hope).
3: This is a repeat of #2. It is a perception / symptom of other problems and adding it is an exaggeration.
4: Minor issue, every class has bad legendary traits. Give me a break --- if I were going to boycott a class over these, RK would have to get in line behind blood rage and ferocious strikes for champs or maybe the ever popular sweep the knee for burgs (which may actually be nice in dragon, but that is a gimmick fight and does not count).
5: My burg is also broken. So is my champ. Arrrrrggh all my other toons are broken, they cannot hit 30k dev crits on dummies!!!!!!!!!
6: Second real issue. 2/6 so far.
7: I can show a parse where a healing traited captain did more damage than my champion too. Link these parses, at least 10 and no more than 2 from the same server. There is no evidence that in general a mini can out dps a RK in equal gear on a regular basis. None.
8: A minor issue. 3/8
9: Every class has a few skills that are mostly unused due to lack of utility. My burg still has not earned the deed for one of those stupid reset buttons, where you click after doing a FM or something to get a minor bonus. I cannot think of the last time I summoned a raven on my LM. Not a real problem, just take it off the bar and use the stuff that works, just like every other class.
10: A minor issue. With calming verse, winds and flame, and supposedly lame dps that cannot out-damage any other class including the healer, how the heck are we going to pull aggro anyway? This busted class couldn't pull aggro off a burg tank!
11: major issue. 4/11
12: Opinion. Not broken, but some anything can always be buffed.
13: Opinion. Not broken, but some anything can always be buffed.
14: Opinion. Not broken, but some anything can always be buffed.
15: The only thing lacking is a fire bonus class item. Some folks want a 1h stone, and an offhand, and a class item, and more and more and more... 5/15 tops and that is only a +1 for the lack of a firey class item.
16: Survival issue already listed, pvp or pve is the same issue, exaggeration.
17: Opinion. Not broken, but some anything can always be buffed.
18: 6/18 --- this is the healing issue that should have been #2 in the list, but #2 is a result of this.
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So, going down the list, we have 6 issues, 2 major (serious bugs), 2 serious (lack of healing and too squishy) and 2 very minor.
Now, 2 major bugs alone is worth serious attention from the community and devs. With that, I do support efforts to get some attention. But lets keep it to the stuff that matters and leave the "buff me, cause I want it" stuff out of the picture.
Draegon:
"stack all the morale you want but dont come on here wonderin why you aint hittin hard! "
If you want to keep it calm, produce positive results, and have an impact you are going to have to lay off the hyperbole. Half of the items listed are nonsense, period.
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So, going down the list, we have 6 issues, 2 major (serious bugs), 2 serious (lack of healing and too squishy) and 2 very minor.
Now, 2 major bugs alone is worth serious attention from the community and devs. With that, I do support efforts to get some attention. But lets keep it to the stuff that matters and leave the "buff me, cause I want it" stuff out of the picture.
Forusname..... how can you possibly say the raven is bad? It is the strongest pet by far. Both in the moors, and in PvE endgame content with the POSSIBLE exception of the eagle. also, if you wish to analyze my post go ahead, i did issues A in English too. and while i might state opinion as fact, you are not above it yourself. Many times presenting your opinion as being the undeniable truth. However it seems that many people agree with me. there isn't a blackout for no better reason than that we felt like it.
Apart from that, I am posting generally held shortcomings of our class, some i will claim as fact, others are opinions simply by virtue of being of a subjective nature, i hasten to add that being subjective in no way invalidates them as some claim. and i only post those that i have seen posted several times, I am STRICTLY keeping my opinion out of it to avoid bias, however i agree with MOST of the points stated.
Thank you for posting your response, it was in-depth, i wish i could extend the same courtesy to you and everyone who posts and have a crack at rebutting all your points, but obviously i'd be here all day if i were to do that, much as i'd like to. additionally, I must be the worlds slowest typist XD
Last edited by loki84; Feb 18 2012 at 05:09 AM.
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
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You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
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Originally Posted by loki84
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