Thread: Do Hunters really need buffed?

┻━┻ ლ(ಠ▃ಠლ) Stop trolling or I will flip tables!

itt: mad wargs

Originally Posted by Tinluen

Champs, guards, cappies and even some wardens will hit much harder than any hunter in melee range

Tydalmir

Imagine that...a melee class hitting harder than a ranged class

The point is :

-Hunters are godmode in Ranged
-Hunters are competitive in melee
-Hunters do not need a godmode or competitive escape skill

-Wargs are not even currently competitive in melee
-Wargs have zero ranged attacks
-Wargs have competitive escape skills

You already have Range + Melee strengths. Why should you also have escape skills?

Based on your logic, Wargs should also have ranged attacks

First off let us address the competitive escape skills hunters have.... ah... emmm.... nope don't really see any. So we have none at this point, so some hunters are asking for one. Most of us just want a bit more surviability.


Second isn't it surprising that a dual wielding toon can actually melee.... at the lowest level of all the "melee capable" classes. They make damn sure that we aren't anywhere close to a real melee toon and you know it.

Stick to the point worg... we want our armour fixed along with our mits... we are not asking for extra dps, more melee skills, the oh everything has gone to hell in a handbasket skill that every other freep class has, we just want what was taken returned. Just like creeps asked for and got by the way.

Try trolling the warden threads, you should be more worried about the buffs they ARE getting... oh noes a toon that can heal, has some nice oh ()hit buttons, can do nice melee dps, and NOW RANGED dps damage... are those tears starting to form yet?

By the way aren't wargs getting some nice toys to play with? Keep trying chief, your qq needs some work.

Tydalmir

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Imagine that...a melee class hitting harder than a ranged class

The point is :

-Hunters are godmode in Ranged
-Hunters are competitive in melee
-Hunters do not need a godmode or competitive escape skill

-Wargs are not even currently competitive in melee
-Wargs have zero ranged attacks
-Wargs have competitive escape skills

You already have Range + Melee strengths. Why should you also have escape skills?

Based on your logic, Wargs should also have ranged attacks

Please go troll somewhere else

Originally Posted by Tinluen

First off let us address the competitive escape skills hunters have.... ah... emmm.... nope don't really see any. So we have none at this point, so some hunters are asking for one. Most of us just want a bit more surviability.


Second isn't it surprising that a dual wielding toon can actually melee.... at the lowest level of all the "melee capable" classes. They make damn sure that we aren't anywhere close to a real melee toon and you know it.

Stick to the point worg... we want our armour fixed along with our mits... we are not asking for extra dps, more melee skills, the oh everything has gone to hell in a handbasket skill that every other freep class has, we just want what was taken returned. Just like creeps asked for and got by the way.

Try trolling the warden threads, you should be more worried about the buffs they ARE getting... oh noes a toon that can heal, has some nice oh ()hit buttons, can do nice melee dps, and NOW RANGED dps damage... are those tears starting to form yet?

By the way aren't wargs getting some nice toys to play with? Keep trying chief, your qq needs some work.

Tydalmir

./signed ten times over


Until the mits that were removed with RoI from med armor are addressed for ALL medium armor classes, the problems for hunters will remain, be that PvE or PvMP.

Wardens are rightly getting that fixed, but if the devs remain silent about how this has affected hunters/burgs I wouldn't expect too many hunters in particular to keep playing to next lvl cap without it since burgs have skills to compensate which hunters do not have.

I would point out though, as have others, that aside from missing mits raid hunters in PvE also have additional issues of threat mgmt which have NEVER been addressed. EVER.

I can now easily build up to 2000 agility unbuffed, 10K crit, and for what?? To get one shotted in a raid after pulling aggro off the tank. This does nothing but contribute to wipe, rinse, repeat. The immediate response to this situation is always the same: either "that was a bad tank then" or "you don't know how to manage aggro then." NOT.

The fact is the tools we have to manage the monstrous amount of aggro we can generate by full dps build output are laughable.

One cannot manage aggro correctly without decent tools. Beneath care and threat books are a joke. Dropping to ES defeats the point of a dps build, and it still doesn't dump aggro should you get it. If you stand there and do nothing but QS in ES, the raid is better off replacing you with an RK, LM, burg, champ, etc. Even in ES doing nothing but QS on the target, you still get aggro if you crit, and then can't dump it.

To repeat: it's not the tank's fault either. Nothing in the game generates the amount of aggro we do if we are running full dps builds so give us the tools to manage that correctly. You would then effectively see the constant ridiculous arguments about who deals out more single target dps, with which these forums are replete, come to a total end. Hunters would then be able to sustainably do what they are supposed to - deal out significant ranged damage to help their raid end the battle. Period.


--- end of rant - peace out

Why does everyone in this forum site PvP for reasons as to why classes need to be buffed or nerfed? The game has always been designed around PvE, and that is where I think hunters are lacking atm. No way to manage threat, other classes can out damage us single target (Champs are my personal vendetta atm). The only thing we bring is 40M range and honestly there aren't that many situations where it is useful.

Originally Posted by Balagast

Why does everyone in this forum site PvP for reasons as to why classes need to be buffed or nerfed? The game has always been designed around PvE, and that is where I think hunters are lacking atm. No way to manage threat, other classes can out damage us single target (Champs are my personal vendetta atm). The only thing we bring is 40M range and honestly there aren't that many situations where it is useful.

PVP isn't for everyone, and the troll that started this was looking to protect his easy mode gains, but that said, we hunters still need to be able to take a few hits from a boss mob. I am sooooo squishy, especially if I am traiting heavy Agi build, that if I pull aggro the healers are not usually able to react fast enough to save me. Sometimes it is just a one shot from skirm bosses and that is just plain crazy on a medium armour toon. If I do trait for morale then I am being out dpsd by other classes because I HAD TO MAKE the choice between dps and surviability. Medium Armour needs to be fixed, our mits need to be returned. Most hunters would be happy with just that.

Others would like a decent heal: SoTE buffed up with our full 5 ticks or having Press Onward an immediate skill to help us in both PVE and PVP. Agile Rejoiner should be a heavy morale return based on it is a reactionary skill and the flat 50% chance that it may go off. If a hunter is already in melee range we have a problem Houston, so make it big and beefy please. Our medium armour is tissue paper so we need something when meleeing to offset that disadvantage. Some hunters want a "the feces hit the fan" button that other toons on both freep and creep side seem to have df returned, a bubble, a sprint, a small form of HIPS, I want a random teleport 40 meters away (that would be cool.... just saying).

PVE hunters are concerned that while we are supposed to be the top of the single target dps heap and that isn't the case. Burgs seem to be able to out dps us as well as some RKs and champs. This shouldn't be the happer either, and other hunters are saying aggro is one of the reason why we aren't at the top of the heap. Hunters are one of the only dps classes that cannot manage aggro on their own. We can postpone it with Beneath Notice, but there isn't an aggro dump that acutally reduces aggro once we get it. A hunter is not allowed to go all out because it is just a matter of time before you will pull aggro.... driving a sports car at 25 is not fun and that is what some hunters see as a problem.

Our legendaries and our skills lines need revamping. No more double dipping on our damage, power and threat on our weapons, can we have some TRUE legendary skills please, and yellow line is still the red-headed step child. It has very limited uses and some big flaws especially if traited for PVP where all traps can be potted, so any skill dealing with traps is useless, but you need them to reach the capstone.

The final area hunters would like looked at are scaling some skills to fit the times. Campfire, SoTE, Heightened Senses (should be innate at 65), poison removal should be instant and multiple target, Bow of the Righteous, ect..... Why oh why does a hunter have to do a little dance, grand gesture or flourish with every skill we have? We are one of the few classes with long induction skills and we add to them with these crazy movements.

Well that should cover it, please add if I missed anything, but it isn't anything new and gamebraking that we are asking for. If you look at the suggestions above most of them are small simple fixes that can mean a lot to our class. We aren't even asking for all of them at once (It would be nice though). If the devs would start fixing two areas at a time hunters would be in a very good place by Christmas. The two books this year would go a long way to making many hunters feel that we are at least what we should be : TOP TIER SINGLE TARGET DPS machines like it was promised.

Respectfully,

Tydalmir

^^ very well stated .. +rep

Those that don't play hunters seem to think we're in a better place than we really are. Those who are playing hunters realize what we need. Its pretty plain and simple. We just need a dev who has actually played a hunter in end-game PvE and PvP. Lets be honest, those who choose not to participate in those activities are ok with the hunter class. The class is not bad for landscape mobs and questing. The class suffers when survivability vs DPS give-and-takes are forced upon the class. If we slot DPS, we're squishy as _____. If we slot morale and survivability, we cannot keep up with our DPS counterparts. If we try for a happy medium, we really only reach a sad medium. And, that's really what we are, a sad medium armor class. Yes, we can put out some DPS numbers, but we cannot survive squat in such a config.

Originally Posted by Tinluen

PVP isn't for everyone, and the troll that started this was looking to protect his easy mode gains, but that said, we hunters still need to be able to take a few hits from a boss mob. I am sooooo squishy, especially if I am traiting heavy Agi build, that if I pull aggro the healers are not usually able to react fast enough to save me. Sometimes it is just a one shot from skirm bosses and that is just plain crazy on a medium armour toon. If I do trait for morale then I am being out dpsd by other classes because I HAD TO MAKE the choice between dps and surviability. Medium Armour needs to be fixed, our mits need to be returned. Most hunters would be happy with just that.

Others would like a decent heal: SoTE buffed up with our full 5 ticks or having Press Onward an immediate skill to help us in both PVE and PVP. Agile Rejoiner should be a heavy morale return based on it is a reactionary skill and the flat 50% chance that it may go off. If a hunter is already in melee range we have a problem Houston, so make it big and beefy please. Our medium armour is tissue paper so we need something when meleeing to offset that disadvantage. Some hunters want a "the feces hit the fan" button that other toons on both freep and creep side seem to have df returned, a bubble, a sprint, a small form of HIPS, I want a random teleport 40 meters away (that would be cool.... just saying).

PVE hunters are concerned that while we are supposed to be the top of the single target dps heap and that isn't the case. Burgs seem to be able to out dps us as well as some RKs and champs. This shouldn't be the happer either, and other hunters are saying aggro is one of the reason why we aren't at the top of the heap. Hunters are one of the only dps classes that cannot manage aggro on their own. We can postpone it with Beneath Notice, but there isn't an aggro dump that acutally reduces aggro once we get it. A hunter is not allowed to go all out because it is just a matter of time before you will pull aggro.... driving a sports car at 25 is not fun and that is what some hunters see as a problem.

Our legendaries and our skills lines need revamping. No more double dipping on our damage, power and threat on our weapons, can we have some TRUE legendary skills please, and yellow line is still the red-headed step child. It has very limited uses and some big flaws especially if traited for PVP where all traps can be potted, so any skill dealing with traps is useless, but you need them to reach the capstone.

The final area hunters would like looked at are scaling some skills to fit the times. Campfire, SoTE, Heightened Senses (should be innate at 65), poison removal should be instant and multiple target, Bow of the Righteous, ect..... Why oh why does a hunter have to do a little dance, grand gesture or flourish with every skill we have? We are one of the few classes with long induction skills and we add to them with these crazy movements.

Well that should cover it, please add if I missed anything, but it isn't anything new and gamebraking that we are asking for. If you look at the suggestions above most of them are small simple fixes that can mean a lot to our class. We aren't even asking for all of them at once (It would be nice though). If the devs would start fixing two areas at a time hunters would be in a very good place by Christmas. The two books this year would go a long way to making many hunters feel that we are at least what we should be : TOP TIER SINGLE TARGET DPS machines like it was promised.

Respectfully,

Tydalmir

Very well put I can get onboard with basically all those thoughts. SotE is definitely one of my other pet peeves. I actually like that they shortened the duration and increased the rate, but now at 75 it gives less power back and just isn't even worth bothering with.

Another thing bothering me is the blue line traits. In order to use the Faron Set bonus to its fullest you need to trait 5 blues. unless there are lots of Mobs to AOE, the redline traits are much better. For single target there are only really 3 blue traits that I find to be any good. Giving up BA bleed, PS mitigation or the straight crit bonus stinks just to get to your 5B's required.

Originally Posted by Nuth_KM

very well stated .. +rep

Thank you my friend

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Those that don't play hunters seem to think we're in a better place than we really are. Those who are playing hunters realize what we need. Its pretty plain and simple. We just need a dev who has actually played a hunter in end-game PvE and PvP. Lets be honest, those who choose not to participate in those activities are ok with the hunter class. The class is not bad for landscape mobs and questing. The class suffers when survivability vs DPS give-and-takes are forced upon the class. If we slot DPS, we're squishy as _____. If we slot morale and survivability, we cannot keep up with our DPS counterparts. If we try for a happy medium, we really only reach a sad medium. And, that's really what we are, a sad medium armor class. Yes, we can put out some DPS numbers, but we cannot survive squat in such a config.

What is truly sad :

"sad medium armor class" Freep > All Creeps

Good luck to the Hunters on your quest to Supreme Godmode (since Godmode isnt enough)

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

What is truly sad :

"sad medium armor class" Freep > All Creeps

Good luck to the Hunters on your quest to Supreme Godmode (since Godmode isnt enough)

ok, if u think that hunters are "godmode", just answer one simple question:

- on which freep class your warg (or whatever creep class you might be playing) has most kbs?

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

"sad medium armor class" Freep > All Creeps

So all you're trying to say is 'All Freep classes should get nerfed!'. That's not a hunter issue, that's a Creep issue...

But to the point: Yes the Medium armour mitigations hit us relatively hard. That and our high evade/parry always used to be the reason Hunters could take one or two hits, while for example the RK was a true 'glass cannon'. Right now I really don't notice any difference between Light or Medium armour, except the stats on them.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

What is truly sad :

"sad medium armor class" Freep > All Creeps

Good luck to the Hunters on your quest to Supreme Godmode (since Godmode isnt enough)

Could you please go troll somewhere else? These posts in which you constantly tell us about your feelings really are boring to have to come across.

Originally Posted by Tinluen

PVP isn't for everyone, and the troll that started this was looking to protect his easy mode gains, but that said, we hunters still need to be able to take a few hits from a boss mob. I am sooooo squishy, especially if I am traiting heavy Agi build, that if I pull aggro the healers are not usually able to react fast enough to save me. Sometimes it is just a one shot from skirm bosses and that is just plain crazy on a medium armour toon. If I do trait for morale then I am being out dpsd by other classes because I HAD TO MAKE the choice between dps and surviability. Medium Armour needs to be fixed, our mits need to be returned. Most hunters would be happy with just that.

Others would like a decent heal: SoTE buffed up with our full 5 ticks or having Press Onward an immediate skill to help us in both PVE and PVP. Agile Rejoiner should be a heavy morale return based on it is a reactionary skill and the flat 50% chance that it may go off. If a hunter is already in melee range we have a problem Houston, so make it big and beefy please. Our medium armour is tissue paper so we need something when meleeing to offset that disadvantage. Some hunters want a "the feces hit the fan" button that other toons on both freep and creep side seem to have df returned, a bubble, a sprint, a small form of HIPS, I want a random teleport 40 meters away (that would be cool.... just saying).

PVE hunters are concerned that while we are supposed to be the top of the single target dps heap and that isn't the case. Burgs seem to be able to out dps us as well as some RKs and champs. This shouldn't be the happen either, and other hunters are saying aggro is one of the reason why we aren't at the top of the heap. Hunters are one of the only dps classes that cannot manage aggro on their own. We can postpone it with Beneath Notice, but there isn't an aggro dump that acutally reduces aggro once we get it. A hunter is not allowed to go all out because it is just a matter of time before you will pull aggro.... driving a sports car at 25 is not fun and that is what some hunters see as a problem.

Our legendaries and our skills lines need revamping. No more double dipping on our damage, power and threat on our weapons, can we have some TRUE legendary skills please, and yellow line is still the red-headed step child. It has very limited uses and some big flaws especially if traited for PVP where all traps can be potted, so any skill dealing with traps is useless, but you need them to reach the capstone.

The final area hunters would like looked at are scaling some skills to fit the times. Campfire, SoTE, Heightened Senses (should be innate at 65), poison removal should be instant and multiple target, Bow of the Righteous, ect..... Why oh why does a hunter have to do a little dance, grand gesture or flourish with every skill we have? We are one of the few classes with long induction skills and we add to them with these crazy movements.

Well that should cover it, please add if I missed anything, but it isn't anything new and game-breaking that we are asking for. If you look at the suggestions above most of them are small simple fixes that can mean a lot to our class. We aren't even asking for all of them at once (It would be nice though). If the devs would start fixing two areas at a time hunters would be in a very good place by Christmas. The two books this year would go a long way to making many hunters feel that we are at least what we should be : TOP TIER SINGLE TARGET DPS machines like it was promised.

Respectfully,

Tydalmir

Seconded, especially wrt the stupid animations that keep you in place way too long.

Are you Hunters prepared for U6?

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Are you Hunters prepared for U6?

so you freely admit that before U6 that wargs and hunters were balanced against each other (in your statement that if whoever gets the jump on the other wins, and you're fine with that) and now you're bragging about how wargs with their U6 are now more powerful than hunters. and you keep braggin about how it's okay for wargs to have be able to disappear, but it's not okay for hunters to have a way to escape.

make up your mind... do you want a fair fight or not? if you want a fair fight, then fight just as hard for hunter balance as you fight for warg balance. if not then troll the hunter forums all day and all night. oh wait strike that, trolling the hunter forums might be considered a violation of forum rules, so don't take that advice.

or, you could just enjoy your newly earned place on my ignore list.

i honestly wish somebody would close this thread. it's turned into nothing but the old rehashed PvP QQ. and worse there's a lot of flames rising from this thread. please please please close it already.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Are you Hunters prepared for U6?

I'm prepared. I just ranked up my warg to r8, so will be playing on him instead.. mostly..

Originally Posted by grapez

I'm prepared. I just ranked up my warg to r8, so will be playing on him instead.. mostly..

If you transfer your Warg to my server you can become my new apprentice

Your new Warg name shall be :Grapsnakh