Thread: War-Leaders, What would we like to change?

The other creep classes have posted about skills/functions that they would like fixed/added.

As a WL myself I would personally like Bubble to be Immediate once more, As of right now it sits at about a 2 or 3 second delay which really affects our ability to save someone. Another thing that would be nice is if we could have a damage type(preferrably shadow) for our auto attacks and melee skills. Common damage is a thing of the past and we are still stuck using it.

Traits:
-As mentioned above, I would like to see shadow damage implemented into our melee skills. However no creep class should have to trait a damage type as it completely wastes a Class Trait Slot.
-Snap Out of It and Purge should not be gated by a Class Trait Slot, they should be added as skills that can be purchased with Destiny Points(Turbine Points). Justification is that freep classes dont have to use up class slots for skills, their class slots simply improve the skills they already have aquired.

Skills:
There are not many new skills that I can see being useful to a WL without making them Overpowered. But one skill I would like to see added is a Shield Bash. War-Leaders have a shield but it is just a cosmetic, It would be nice a nice addition to our combat rotation when DPSing.
-My suggestion is a 300-400 (shadow) damage attack that could have a 2-3 second daze(not stun). This would give the player some breathing room when trying to fire off heals.(Especially when plagued with multiple npcs/freeps) A reasonable cooldown in my eyes for a skill like this would be 20-30 seconds.

This is my input on what could further improve the War-Leader as a class without shifting the balance too much.
Opinions are appreciated, Post Away!

Above all else, I would like another ST, short CD heal skill. It's so frustrating when I'm trying to help out another creep and I need to wait for Crack the Whip to cool down and I end up powerless to do anything whilst they get pounded into the dust.

Aside from that, I agree with the shield use skill. Honestly, WLs are the ONLY class in the game that has NO CC to speak of. Getting a slow was a nice step, but anything, daze, stun, knockdown, I would appreciate.

Originally Posted by Nyrion

Above all else, I would like another ST, short CD heal skill. It's so frustrating when I'm trying to help out another creep and I need to wait for Crack the Whip to cool down and I end up powerless to do anything whilst they get pounded into the dust.

Aside from that, I agree with the shield use skill. Honestly, WLs are the ONLY class in the game that has NO CC to speak of. Getting a slow was a nice step, but anything, daze, stun, knockdown, I would appreciate.

Reavers have no stuns/roots/dazes/mez's/fears you get the point :P

and yes WLs need some loving

The problems can be summed up with these:

Outdated/bugged traits and skills.
Lack of direct combat and healing skills.
Boring and repetitive animations.
Induction problems.
A system behind the class that is not true to the physical characteristics of an Uruk. What I mean in this is that Uruks are intended to be very strong, this is not demonstrated in our combat capabilities.

Originally Posted by zclabaugh

Reavers have no stuns/roots/dazes/mez's/fears you get the point :P

and yes WLs need some loving

Ah, my mistake. For some reason I thought Reavers had a stun.

Originally Posted by Nyrion

Ah, my mistake. For some reason I thought Reavers had a stun.

They do have a root, blade toss roots if I remember correctly, or maybe its a slow.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

They do have a root, blade toss roots if I remember correctly, or maybe its a slow.

Hmm, well regardless, it's insignificant in comparison to the amount of CC available on freepside*, and honestly a class not having ANY when darn near every freep class has access to at least one(and often more than that), is shameful.

*I should know, playing an LM I hold a good chunk of it.

Originally Posted by Nyrion

Hmm, well regardless, it's insignificant in comparison to the amount of CC available on freepside*, and honestly a class not having ANY when darn near every freep class has access to at least one(and often more than that), is shameful.

*I should know, playing an LM I hold a good chunk of it.

I know what its like, until RoI WLs didnt even have a slow, let alone any other form of CC.

Blade Toss is a 40% slow

I think WLs need def shadow damage or something, and another heal to fill in the gaps when they can't heal or something. That and make their bubble instant again.

I want my mits to be better than a guardians again. And a damage type for my melee skills. Thats about it.

Although I must interject, if any class was to get an unpottable stun in U6 it should be the warleader. (No offence wargs!)

Reavers have a disarm, which in my opinion, is a form of CC.

I agree with most of whats been mentioned.

A 3rd heal to fit into our lackluster rotation
A shield bash that even the uruk npcs have (the aoe knockdown)

Fixing the bubble animation is a must but something that would be...well...OP...is that we are able to bubble ourselves.

Freeps have how many bubbles? why cant we self use ours? It might add to the bubble fiasco and not remedy it but nevertheless, it would be nice

New skill: War-Task.

Style: A debuff applied to an enemy Freep, that doesn't do anything directly to the target.

While a War-task is on a target, any creep that does damage to that player receives a temporary buff, depending on what the War-task was.

War-task 1 would be outgoing damage buff to the creep for 15 seconds

War-task 2 would give a good boost to attack speed and finesse

War-task 3 would give the creep +10% power regeneration in-combat. War-tasks would not be able to stack and applying one over another dispells the last one.

This encourages warleaders to debuff enemies with the new skill, following or being the target caller would provide benifits to the whole raid, and it would fit the role of the Leading aspect, and meets the much needed niche of buffing other raid members.

There is nothing worse on WL than having a heal and having non available b/c your paltry amount of skills are all on cooldown. I say gives WLs a parallel to Minstrel's Bolster Courage.

I like the idea Elyske, it functions like a captains telling mark but gives buffs similar to a captains shield brother skill(s).
The idea of a third heal sounds nice as well to fill in the gap between heals. Maybe something in the 1500-2000 heal range with a 5-10 second cooldown.
Keep the ideas coming!

Stackable banner effects.

Another reason for a 3rd heal on a short CD (or no cooldown) is because WLs already have trouble healing someone out of group. They have 1 heal on a 4s cooldown they can use on someone out of group...lame.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

Another reason for a 3rd heal on a short CD (or no cooldown) is because WLs already have trouble healing someone out of group. They have 1 heal on a 4s cooldown they can use on someone out of group...lame.

Aren't captains restricted to one heal for out of group as well?

They're a buffing support healer, anyone who isn't willing to group with a WL for the sexy aura of command buff (the attack duration is amazing), deserves to die for lack of heals.

You cant really compare creep classes to freep classes....Captains main role is not healing, they can buff their group members and dish out much more dps then a Warleader can. The reason I like the idea for the 3rd heal is not necessarily for out of group heals, but it is for the hole we are left with once our 2 primary heals are on cooldown. It is frustrating to watch someone die and you have to sit their and wait. Captains add a large amount of survivability to the group and when coupled with a good minstrel that group is nearly impossible to bring down unless you have numerical superiority or you are in a A-Team group that has its stuff together. This brings in Defilers, Defiler/Warleader combo is also great. That being said, Minstrel/Captain have much greater utility skills to keep the group alive with Escape skills/CC/Groupwide buffs. The minstrel Coda of Vigour is a massive heal that can be used on the move and it is nearly spammable with a cooldown of a couple seconds(and a few healing ballads).


This is my justification why a 3rd heal needs to be added to the Warleader, It would be fine by me if it was also gated to Commanders Stance, that way we dont have too much utility at our disposal while soloing/dpsing.

Originally Posted by Krazything

You cant really compare creep classes to freep classes....Captains main role is not healing.

Captains general healing output is greater than WL in a lot of situations. I've seens cappys main heal foundry runs. And keep a whole group of freeps alive in the moors versus a bunch of creeps. But yes, they have way better tools in the buffing/DPS departement/oh **** departement.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

Aren't captains restricted to one heal for out of group as well?

Yeah but they are not classed as the main healer. We are. I definately think the 3rd heal should be a single target heal. One heal out of group just aint right.

Originally Posted by Krazything

This is my justification why a 3rd heal needs to be added to the Warleader, It would be fine by me if it was also gated to Commanders Stance, that way we dont have too much utility at our disposal while soloing/dpsing.

Did you mean Brawlers instead of commanders?

Originally Posted by bladestr

Yeah but they are not classed as the main healer. We are.

You are?

Defilers are the creep main healer.

War leaders are a support healer/tank.

If the defiler is classified as the main healer....we are all doomed. A defiler would never be able to keep someone alive when being focused by more then 2 or 3 freeps

Originally Posted by Krazything

Traits:
-As mentioned above, I would like to see shadow damage implemented into our melee skills. However no creep class should have to trait a damage type as it completely wastes a Class Trait Slot.
-Snap Out of It and Purge should not be gated by a Class Trait Slot, they should be added as skills that can be purchased with Destiny Points(Turbine Points). Justification is that freep classes dont have to use up class slots for skills, their class slots simply improve the skills they already have aquired.

There are several freep classes that have to use trait slots to gain certain skills.

Which classes? Im talking about class traits not legendary trait slots

Originally Posted by Krazything

If the defiler is classified as the main healer....we are all doomed. A defiler would never be able to keep someone alive when being focused by more then 2 or 3 freeps

This is a problem with damage scaling.

Defilers actually have a MUCH higher HPS output than warleaders. It's not even close.

The other issue is that all their heals are heals over time, They only have 1 skill that heals for over 1k and it is on a 30 sec cd.

Originally Posted by Krazything

The other issue is that all their heals are heals over time, They only have 1 skill that heals for over 1k and it is on a 30 sec cd.

Yep, and when all of their HOTs are on one target, they put out more HPS than any warleader and that's before you factor their burst heal.

HoTs are pretty useless though against massive burst dps, hunters and rks can slice right through defiler healing

Originally Posted by Krazything

HoTs are pretty useless though against massive burst dps, hunters and rks can slice right through defiler healing

This is a simple DPS vs HPS problem (ie: freep dps is overpowered right now).

The thing is, warleader HPS is lower than defiler HPS... ergo warleader heals are ALSO pretty useless (in fact, more useless) against massive burst dps.

Another healing skill would be nice. I also wouldn't mind some sort of escape skill like most other classes have.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

Aren't captains restricted to one heal for out of group as well?

They're a buffing support healer, anyone who isn't willing to group with a WL for the sexy aura of command buff (the attack duration is amazing), deserves to die for lack of heals.

What if you happen to have a "raid" of 7 or 8 people? If it's a minstrel or RK they can easily heal that other person. A defiler can also heal other group members fairly well.

Captain is what, a 3s CD + instant cast + on the move while a WL is 4s cd + 1.5s induction + must be stationary.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

You are?

Defilers are the creep main healer.

War leaders are a support healer/tank.

Other way around my friend.

Defiler HoTs in my opinion do not cut it, to be classed as the main healer (in this era anyway). They have a few debuff skills that in my opinion, are what a support class should have (Like the freepside support classes, captain/RK). You can put forth your "they have a higher HPS" output debate (as i have heard from others before) but I personally and respectfully disagree.

I know lotro has specified the defiler as being the "main" healer for creepside, but I simply don't believe it.

Originally Posted by Aarow

Another healing skill would be nice. I also wouldn't mind some sort of escape skill like most other classes have.

I wouldnt define it as an escape skill, but Purge has saved my life more times than i can count.

Originally Posted by Krazything

If the defiler is classified as the main healer....we are all doomed. A defiler would never be able to keep someone alive when being focused by more then 2 or 3 freeps

Originally Posted by Orion

Uruk Warleader

On the battlefield, the Warleader shines as a warrior on the front line and inspiration to his allies. Through mocking, humiliation and force of will, the Warleader can inspire the meekest of troops to greatness. His fearsome howls augment his strong arm and shield to make his blows all the more deadly.

Primary Role: Tank, Buff
Secondary Role: Rabble-rousing (Healing)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I have a feeling they will NOT change this anytime soon.

Defilers should not be the class with the shield wall skill, if anything they should have the bubble while warleaders have the shield wall ability, on a toggle (that allows them to continue using skills ect) just like the guardian.

Trying to change the classes set roles will not fly by, instead, suggest changes to help improve and better facilitate both of the main roles.

I would love to see 1 more healing skill that can be used on the move in BS. Plus i want to see our armour and mitigations go up, a lone freep should struggle to kill us, crit protection should be passive on a WL.

I guess i have small needs.

All i'd like is the frigging bugs to be fixed. Call The Shadow (now a self buff) still doesn't work depending on what you're targetting, making it almost useless when you most need it. The WL bug is still there, making us bug out and requiring 10-30 minutes of "Cleaning up old connection". The immediate bubble isn't immediate.

Fix these and i'll be happy. Call me crazy but i really think we're just fine as we are, if it wasn't for those horribly annoying bugs. Fix our bugs, get the *other* creeps up to par (imho BAs are fine too) so that they don't die that fast, or so that they can dish out huge DPS if they have to remain that squishy, and the moors should be decent-ish again.