Thread: Increasing number of gankers

I've recently returned to the ettenmoors on my burglar and I've had some really nice spars versus Vitalbite (hope I spelled your name correct) and Harurtz. Though even when I stood a low chance and I accepted the spar versus Harurtz it is not needed for a Zayx alike character to join in on the fight and gank him. Vitalbite for example knows the 1v1 area and seems to respect the 'codes'.

But as always there are MANY more gankers. Flyingdead for example all of a sudden started ganking me while I had a defiler who used a move which most creeps do when sparring a burglar. He kept shooting at me every time I came close to 1v1. The same account for many more creeps usually under the rank of 6. Is there any way to stop this besides ganking back and so on?

Thanks in advance and great hunting in the etts!

Best wishes,
Amortes

Kill them all. Let none survive.

Ehm,
There is no officialy 1v1, there are no-written rules about it. And here are ppls which respect it and no. So you can complain, but it doesnt help.

I know there aren't any written rules but if I leave the door of my house unlocked and I go to walk the dog, do you enter and steal all stuff just because there wasn't a sign which said you weren't allowed to? Some things you should just stick to and this is one of them. I know certain people don't respect the 1v1 'rules' and I don't really care about that. But than you shouldn't complain about getting ganked in 1v1 afterwards.

A few days ago some ganker attacked a friend of mine while he was 'sparring' a reaver (forgot the name). I joined in to kill that BA and afterwards he was said to report it to ./ooc as ganking?!?

I know it might not change a lot and adding arena's is a bit weird as well but still. Cannot we have a slightly bit of respect for not yet 100 square meters on the whole of ettenmoors?

Amo

Originally Posted by Amortes

I know it might not change a lot and adding arena's is a bit weird as well but still. Cannot we have a slightly bit of respect for not yet 100 square meters on the whole of ettenmoors?

Amo

There's no chance mate, there always be some gankers. During last weeks, the very most of freep gankers have been burglars, though I've never seen you ganking. Sawant (Zayx) on the front line but also Cano and burglars packs did it sometimes. Probably some creeps are just too much sensitive to burglars atm :P
However, there's no more cd on switching side and, believe me, the easiest way to fix these problems is switching side and talk to the interested person, in this case Flyingdead. You will understand his reason, he will understand yours and you'll be back to fair 1vs1.

Dont worry Amortes.

It's a daily task for me to eliminate potential gankers, and rank 0-6 creeps which dont 1v1 at all

Originally Posted by Xrays

Dont worry Amortes.

It's a daily task for me to eliminate potential gankers, and rank 0-6 creeps which dont 1v1 at all

yes and sometimes killing another freep opponent due he try leave 1v1 cuz bugged skills, ganking, or killing creeps which goes around. etc, etc.

Why complain when you can slain?

Gank the gankers!

There's really too much QQ in etten... pls try to stop that and just go fight, kill, die, gank, spank, zerg... etc..

I stop doing 1v1 because of that QQ... ehi you win only for luck| because you use that skill|that CD is too strong| you use that consumable|you use you're axe etc... Not my cup of tea.

If i go to the etten it's for slain everyone in the fast and safe possible way. ;D

(p.s.: also if i don't attack anyone in the 1v1 area that's don't mean that i had to expect that everyone do the same)

My favourite part about ganking is that it's usually because of a long history between players that we don't know about. One creep will gank a freep because 'they ganked me before' but to us freeps it looks like he's ganking. We gank him then loads of creeps gank us because to they know the reason the creep ganked so to them we look like the gankers. Then it just goes on from there.

Occasionally you'll get the people like Tekluk, who clearly gank people then must cry to their tribe mates/ooc that they got killed for it by lying and saying they were ganked. Even then, you might as well just kill everyone who helps him because eventually they'll realise he's a liar or they already know and they're just doing it because they think they can get away with it (e.g Muzz).

So moral of the story, kids? Don't let them live.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

My favourite part about ganking is that it's usually because of a long history between players that we don't know about. One creep will gank a freep because 'they ganked me before' but to us freeps it looks like he's ganking. We gank him then loads of creeps gank us because to they know the reason the creep ganked so to them we look like the gankers. Then it just goes on from there.

Occasionally you'll get the people like Tekluk, who clearly gank people then must cry to their tribe mates/ooc that they got killed for it by lying and saying they were ganked. Even then, you might as well just kill everyone who helps him because eventually they'll realise he's a liar or they already know and they're just doing it because they think they can get away with it (e.g Muzz).

So moral of the story, kids? Don't let them live.

Clearly you died at 1vs1 :-)

Bunch of gankers

Originally Posted by MessyR

Clearly you died at 1vs1 :-)

Quite the opposite. I actually killed 2 gankers that came after me and I did it solo. So much sweeter watching them fail.

Everytime i see someone ganking at 1vs 1 my potion of fervour + seeking blade + remorseless strike is always ready to Hit

Ignore ganking, one more death isn't the end of the world. Flyingdead doesn't surprise me, he's .. well I don't think it will be appropriate to say it here. But he is known to be a person that makes stupid decisions, whether it's ganking or saying something. But what Navhar says, log your creep, ask why he did it. And if you have your answer, log back and don't make the same reason (like hitting a player for fun or whatever).

There are no rules. And nobody would follow them, we play for fun and for a challenge (since most challenges in-game are easymoder). However, the problem is, creeps - freeps balance is nowhere near where it should be. As for me, I don't use any cooldowns and I manage to win most of my fights. Luck? Skills? I have no idea. But the point is, I'm a medium armour that has mitigations / damage of a champion rather than a burglar.

But that story apart, it is no reason to gank. Obviously most players are upset by it. Why? It is a game, you won't get robbed when you walk your dog or whatever, this is a game not real life. Some names are called, I don't know their main reasons but it will have to do something with freeps as well. Freeps arent holy and creeps the bad guys, we are all persons and we have to keep that in mind. I'm not calling names to freeps that gank, they know exactly what they do or have done. The story about /OOC and /TR is a waste of time. You protect Tribe players, so if they get ganked you will support them. And as for OOC, you will call out that someone is ganking to warn, but no reason to get 20 players to gank one person. But it happens, we help each other.

It is a known fact that burglars are hated. Stealth = easymode. Okay, I agree, but wargs have stealth as well, even minstrels - and most are hobbit so also a Faint Death. Burglars have been (very) powerful pre RoI and the hate is still there. Yes some are grouped, but don't blame them for it. Let them have fun. It isn't fair against creeps, but hey.. Creeps have zerged me with a raid and a few corpse jumped me. And I don't mind, but don't whine about them. So that they gank burglars in general is not keeping me awake. But most don't see that minstrels are more overpowered than burglars.

As for low ranks, I can imagine why they gank. They are new to ettenmoors (or some that have a freep not). But most are. They are on their way to Grimwood Lumber Camp, completing the quest. They face freeps. Of course you will attack, it's just the way it works. They don't have a clue that we are at '1v1'. You can tell them, and they will know. If one attacks you there, just kite him around or don't hit back. Start to run when you're near death. You won't die of them, but have a laugh and don't hit them. Hit = war. And before you know it they will call friends .

Remember that you shouldn't hit a person unless you have a reason for it. And I sometimes prank around with players, it's for fun when the fun isn't here anymore ingame. No reason to get your infamy/renown unfair. Work for it, grinding isn't fun. Ignore zayx, he can't be stopped. But think it like this: I have a life and some brains. The only one you can gank there is zayx, but respect the other players. When a creep hits a freep and the freep kills it, freeps seem to be ganking. But don't come with your full raid to wipe it - AND INNOCENT PLAYERS -. It isn't any form of amusement and it keeps us out of the moors.

Long story, reading ftw:P

I got to agree with you completely ;D
It's just a bit annoying but I indeed tend to forget that some of them just don't know better.

+1 for tolgaring

Originally Posted by Tolgaring

Ignore ganking, one more death isn't the end of the world. Flyingdead doesn't surprise me, he's .. well I don't think it will be appropriate to say it here. But he is known to be a person that makes stupid decisions, whether it's ganking or saying something. But what Navhar says, log your creep, ask why he did it. And if you have your answer, log back and don't make the same reason (like hitting a player for fun or whatever).

There are no rules. And nobody would follow them, we play for fun and for a challenge (since most challenges in-game are easymoder). However, the problem is, creeps - freeps balance is nowhere near where it should be. As for me, I don't use any cooldowns and I manage to win most of my fights. Luck? Skills? I have no idea. But the point is, I'm a medium armour that has mitigations / damage of a champion rather than a burglar.

But that story apart, it is no reason to gank. Obviously most players are upset by it. Why? It is a game, you won't get robbed when you walk your dog or whatever, this is a game not real life. Some names are called, I don't know their main reasons but it will have to do something with freeps as well. Freeps arent holy and creeps the bad guys, we are all persons and we have to keep that in mind. I'm not calling names to freeps that gank, they know exactly what they do or have done. The story about /OOC and /TR is a waste of time. You protect Tribe players, so if they get ganked you will support them. And as for OOC, you will call out that someone is ganking to warn, but no reason to get 20 players to gank one person. But it happens, we help each other.

It is a known fact that burglars are hated. Stealth = easymode. Okay, I agree, but wargs have stealth as well, even minstrels - and most are hobbit so also a Faint Death. Burglars have been (very) powerful pre RoI and the hate is still there. Yes some are grouped, but don't blame them for it. Let them have fun. It isn't fair against creeps, but hey.. Creeps have zerged me with a raid and a few corpse jumped me. And I don't mind, but don't whine about them. So that they gank burglars in general is not keeping me awake. But most don't see that minstrels are more overpowered than burglars.

As for low ranks, I can imagine why they gank. They are new to ettenmoors (or some that have a freep not). But most are. They are on their way to Grimwood Lumber Camp, completing the quest. They face freeps. Of course you will attack, it's just the way it works. They don't have a clue that we are at '1v1'. You can tell them, and they will know. If one attacks you there, just kite him around or don't hit back. Start to run when you're near death. You won't die of them, but have a laugh and don't hit them. Hit = war. And before you know it they will call friends .

Remember that you shouldn't hit a person unless you have a reason for it. And I sometimes prank around with players, it's for fun when the fun isn't here anymore ingame. No reason to get your infamy/renown unfair. Work for it, grinding isn't fun. Ignore zayx, he can't be stopped. But think it like this: I have a life and some brains. The only one you can gank there is zayx, but respect the other players. When a creep hits a freep and the freep kills it, freeps seem to be ganking. But don't come with your full raid to wipe it - AND INNOCENT PLAYERS -. It isn't any form of amusement and it keeps us out of the moors.

Long story, reading ftw:P

100% agree

A freep at 1vs1 is an easymoder... have no pity if you have a doubt of his actions...
A creep at 1vs1 is a david vs goliath... respect him

Before flame; i plaid lot more freeps than creeps.

+1 for kori...its really funny to see minstrels at 1v1 with captain buffs, scrolls and dp buffs...they make me laugh a lot ^^

Just don't spar them, they'll go away soon enough. And don't generalize like that Kori. I know many players who hold back, don't use certain skills and give their opponent a fair chance. Tynna, Tolgaring, Navhar, just to name a few. I'm sure they won't like reading this.

Anyway have fun in the moors!

Originally Posted by Salahad

Just don't spar them, they'll go away soon enough. And don't generalize like that Kori. I know many players who hold back, don't use certain skills and give their opponent a fair chance. Tynna, Tolgaring, Navhar, just to name a few. I'm sure they won't like reading this.

Anyway have fun in the moors!

it's not about fairplay (that is been dead from some time for 99% of players) but about being ridiculous op. They spar just knowing the opponent has no chance. Tolgarin might be a fair one but in his OPness I've seen him stun and kill to death with no wake up a rank 8 WL. Where is the fair chance? I just dont know why I keep giving away points in 1 vs 1.

Originally Posted by Siliveth

it's not about fairplay (that is been dead from some time for 99% of players) but about being ridiculous op. They spar just knowing the opponent has no chance. Tolgarin might be a fair one but in his OPness I've seen him stun and kill to death with no wake up a rank 8 WL. Where is the fair chance? I just dont know why I keep giving away points in 1 vs 1.

Yes sadly creeps are in a bad place right now. I do hope there will be more balance in the moors soon. Still I don't feel that it makes the 1v1 players I mentioned 'easymoders', which is what I was trying to say to master Kori :-).

Originally Posted by korig

A freep at 1vs1 is an easymoder... have no pity if you have a doubt of his actions...
A creep at 1vs1 is a david vs goliath... respect him

Before flame; i plaid lot more freeps than creeps.

+1 kori, agree completely

I agree Tolgarin ... ppl need to communicatebefore tempers go out the door and with it the 1vs1 ethics. I love one thing about this server and is main reason i transfered and that is the 1vs1. It really is something to chearish and look after.
Wish i had a freep here so i could logg over and hear the freep in questions part of the story sometimes. Unfortunatly i have seen bad and good things at 1vs1 and i was part of good and bad , not know who was right.

I like to play the underdogg and i love to sometimes beat the OP freep on an inferiour class.
And ye i dont spar minstrells anymore..they are just a joke to begin with and if they win, which is 70% off the time , they think they are good and not that they play a godmode class in the right hands

BTW: Bloodtail is an epic warg and i truely admire he's skill and tactics in 1vs1.

Originally Posted by Vitalpoison

BTW: Bloodtail is an epic warg and i truely admire he's skill and tactics in 1vs1.

Nice joke

Pff who let Trollogaring on forums

@ Vital

Grats on rank, haven't seen you around lately . Told you, I can only give you advice or two but most of the work you do by yourself.

@ Topic

I agree with that, it's better to relog and actually try to solve the situation, than keep deepen the differences by ganking for gank, as it leads to nowhere.

i try to relog and explain.
Last time it was with vra (now renamed sweetdreams). Bramnix give me this debuff that remove 2k morale during our fight, so i got bubble by manshoon and kill bramnix. I see that sweetdreams try kill me during the whole time. I relog and explain him.
I got insulted.

Later on he got ganked for something completly different by two other people. relog, and yell at me that all is my fault. I tell him to look at his combat log and he tells me he did and i'm a lier and i gank him...

What to feel on this exept that i'm willing to gank him on sight..

You freeps (like noal or some others, funny than most are easymode minstrel that can't understand they receiveve /rude emote when jumping us with hope token, scrolls, and captains buff) are gonna make us all prasivec's.

About easymoders or, better, idiots:
I completely agree with you guys..
Seems this new generation of freepies is not carin at all about fair play in 1vs1. What I can tell you is that even when some other freeps, just like me, Tol, and previous generations freeps complain with them about that, we got insulted exactly the same way....

About balance:
Even though some of you keep saying there's no balance at all between freeps and creeps on 1vs1, I'm still here saying that, especially if the freep is not using his long cd skills, just few classes are not balanced. I'm experiencing big problems against warleaders, I find it hard to kill a ba if he manage to survive till I run out of sprint (perma kiting), I find it hard to kill Vele among spiders, Bloodtail among wargs, a couple defilers, Souza and Muzzard among reavers. And, as the raid creepies have had last night well showed and as I checked roaming most of time with a tribe group, I also noticed that, if a group is well balanced, creeps could also stand a freep group of same amount of players, especially if they got good wls and defis.
But, going back to what is not working: minstrel is probably the most unbalanced class. Before RoI only good minstrels could win a spar, just like it was for other classes, nowadays even a noob one can kill solo 2,3 creeps without even risking, that's not working. And something, again, really nonsense is he can also distract mobs, something completely ruining pvmp, reducing the importance of creep mobs to 0.
About others freep classes I think dps should be lowered by a 10% for hunters, nothing more, especially considering how insane it would be by equipping a first age bow..

Now, just to finish the job and being insulted by both sides, I have something to complain about both creeps and freeps..
I know that cooperation is the best feature of creep side in snowbourn. It's something so far and opposite to what you can find on freep side and you should all go on this way.
BUT.
Cooperation shouldn't mean you always search for someone to group with to win by weight of numbers. That could maybe help you to rank up but won't help you to improve yourselves in a 1vs1 fight. You can have an example by comparing 1vs1 ability of creeps roaming solo sometimes to ability of creeps always hiding in big groups.
About freeps, well, just as Vele and Kori said, freeps you usually see in 1vs1 are those well managing 1vs1 and usually much skilled. But there's also a huge amount of chickens on freep side, badly skilled in any 1vs1 fight. They usually search for groups and, where their group is attacked, they hide in the rearguard; when their group is maybe ganking lug gy, they're always in the front line.

Cowards, chickens, they hide in both sides. But still, they will reach high ranks and have much better wartabs. I still wonder how could they enjoy this game but, well, you could ask same question in every mmorpg, they're everywhere and they're part of the game.

Originally Posted by Navhar

Seems this new generation of freepies is not carin at all about fair play in 1vs1. What I can tell you is that even when some other freeps, just like me, Tol, and previous generations freeps complain with them about that, we got insulted exactly the same way....

I do agree with this. I've played for very long in 1v1 and it taught me how to play without my cooldowns - but I can still pop them. Which i sometimes do when the other one is vey lame, like potting 2 stuns as reaver and then pot my dust in the eyes, morale pot.. everything. Cba to let one win then if I'm not using anything. I know Burglar is a strong class. Yes I am OP, but thats mainly because I'm skilled, rather than the class. If one burglar uses everything for one kill, yes. That is OP. But it is also very lame, just don't spar that one anymore.

Originally Posted by Navhar

I find it hard to kill a ba if he manage to survive till I run out of sprint (perma kiting), I find it hard to kill Vele among spiders, Bloodtail among wargs, a couple defilers, Souza and Muzzard among reavers. And, as the raid creepies have had last night well showed and as I checked roaming most of time with a tribe group, I also noticed that, if a group is well balanced, creeps could also stand a freep group of same amount of players, especially if they got good wls and defis.

Completely agree with this, but I haven't 1v1d velenifera yet, I know the reason and I respect it. But that's not why I'm on the forums at the moment. The creep groups, yes I know creeps are underpowered versus freeps, but some groups are just zerging soloers and that concerns me. I was yesterday so often tracked and they all just went straight for me, after a death some corpse jumped. If you're grouped it's fine, but don't start being lame by killing one person that basically has no chance at all, no matter the skill one posesses.

Originally Posted by Navhar

But, going back to what is not working: minstrel is probably the most unbalanced class. Before RoI only good minstrels could win a spar, just like it was for other classes, nowadays even a noob one can kill solo 2,3 creeps without even risking, that's not working.

I jumped a minstrel once, that guy kept hugging mobs and couldn't turn at all, I hit him to death and he hit me 3 times, 3 times 2k but I didn't die. True skill, huh?

Originally Posted by Navhar

And something, again, really nonsense is he can also distract mobs, something completely ruining pvmp, reducing the importance of creep mobs to 0.

Well first of all creeps shouldn't hug npcs so much, if you want a fair 1v1 don't pull them into npcs and THEN fight, that's ridiculous and very sad.

Originally Posted by Navhar

Now, just to finish the job and being insulted by both sides, I have something to complain about both creeps and freeps..
I know that cooperation is the best feature of creep side in snowbourn. It's something so far and opposite to what you can find on freep side and you should all go on this way.

Ull's warg pack of yesterday ftw? He 1v1ed me at gv and when he got on 2k he let his 9 *** lickers attack me, very brave ^^

Originally Posted by Navhar

BUT.
Cooperation shouldn't mean you always search for someone to group with to win by weight of numbers. That could maybe help you to rank up but won't help you to improve yourselves in a 1vs1 fight. You can have an example by comparing 1vs1 ability of creeps roaming solo sometimes to ability of creeps always hiding in big groups.
About freeps, well, just as Vele and Kori said, freeps you usually see in 1vs1 are those well managing 1vs1 and usually much skilled. But there's also a huge amount of chickens on freep side, badly skilled in any 1vs1 fight. They usually search for groups and, where their group is attacked, they hide in the rearguard; when their group is maybe ganking lug gy, they're always in the front line.

Cowards, chickens, they hide in both sides. But still, they will reach high ranks and have much better wartabs. I still wonder how could they enjoy this game but, well, you could ask same question in every mmorpg, they're everywhere and they're part of the game.

Yeah.. well I agree with you, no words to describe it else. I've seen it on both sides as you saw it as well. I'm not calling any names.

Originally Posted by Navhar

But, going back to what is not working: minstrel is probably the most unbalanced class. Before RoI only good minstrels could win a spar, just like it was for other classes, nowadays even a noob one can kill solo 2,3 creeps without even risking, that's not working.

Don't kid yourself, for every situation where a minstrel can kill 2,3 creeps solo, there's a situation where a burglar/guardian/champ can kill 2,3 creeps solo, with the difference that those can opt to escape where minstrels typically have to fight to death. I stand a greater chance to kill a 'noob' minstrel 1v1 on my reaver than I do 'noob' champs/burgs/guards who invariably go god mode on me (self heals, bubbles/pledge/touch&go/knives-out/sprint/charge/hips etc) which is also a reason why creeps typically go for minstrels before those (well, those creeps who don't just tab the nearest target ...).

I was hearing more storys of ganking on the 1v1 now a days. Though i am not much in ettens anymore but its something that cannot be stopped.

Since I'm getting more and more creeps crying to me about skill use, I've come up with a plan:

Whenever you see me at 1v1, find another member of your class and both of you can challenge me. That way you have twice the creep than before. I'm more than happy to start fighting 2v1s if it's going to stop people complaining.

Originally Posted by Equendil

Don't kid yourself, for every situation where a minstrel can kill 2,3 creeps solo, there's a situation where a burglar/guardian/champ can kill 2,3 creeps solo, with the difference that those can opt to escape where minstrels typically have to fight to death. I stand a greater chance to kill a 'noob' minstrel 1v1 on my reaver than I do 'noob' champs/burgs/guards who invariably go god mode on me (self heals, bubbles/pledge/touch&go/knives-out/sprint/charge/hips etc)

Well, guards, even when noob, got a decent survivability but their dps is nothing and champs, well, I've met some noob champs managing to die against my noob reaver and, about burglars, if you use antistun pots they lose big part of their chances. All classes got a balance between dps they deal and dps they suffer. Take hunters for example..they can hit 10k but they can also die quick as nothing else. Or take guards, huge survivability but really sad dps. Minstrels, instead, are showing a huge survivability together with a huge dps. That doesn't look that balanced but, again, it's my personal opinion.

Originally Posted by Equendil

which is also a reason why creeps typically go for minstrels before those (well, those creeps who don't just tab the nearest target ...).

Well, you could ask every single creep in snow and they will tell you the same. Nowadays champs, burgs and wardens are targeted before minstrels. I mean, not personal choices but raid leaders requests. They seems having a better resistance and survivability than champs and wardens. Ofc both classes got some exceptions, like minstrels charging to death or champs always running away when they reach half morale.

Originally Posted by Navhar

Well, guards, even when noob, got a decent survivability but their dps is nothing and champs, well, I've met some noob champs managing to die against my noob reaver and, about burglars, if you use antistun pots they lose big part of their chances. All classes got a balance between dps they deal and dps they suffer. Take hunters for example..they can hit 10k but they can also die quick as nothing else. Or take guards, huge survivability but really sad dps. Minstrels, instead, are showing a huge survivability together with a huge dps. That doesn't look that balanced but, again, it's my personal opinion.

You're quite right that burglars/hunters or any medium/light armor class with the exception of minstrel can be countered effectively, but I have to disagree that guard dps is that bad. Nah, spamming parry response skills, especially Overwhelm and To The King, or skills like Force Opening/Brutal Assault gives them a really strong dps compared to their survivability. 1-1,5k crits happen quite often with guards in OP, while having 11-13k morale at the same time. Heck, Chrimborn once scored a nearly 3k dev on me (with to the king if I remember right) in an 1v1 on my r8 reaver, imagine, a reaver can never ever score even a dev with BT/dev strike on any moderately geared heavy for more than 2k. I know he's well geared and skilled, but still. Good guards nearly have the same morale pool of HP-traited reavers/WLs, much higher mits, skills like Pledge, Warrior's Heart, but can still dish out 20-30% more dps than reavers (and also, 3 sec stun on crits).

About champs, yep, unskilled and undergeared ones can be killed easily despite all their cds, however those cds nearly always save unskilled but well-geared champs. It seems it was just designed this way.

I want more nub freeps at 1vs1 please !
I'm bored of fightning always the 10 same ones !

CHeers

P.S : chrim doing a 3k dev is a nice joke. He is full of vitality gear. Guardians that got full might gear and new dps set (they can't reach more than 8k morale with this gear) hit 2.5k MAX on dummy. so prolly less on a reaver. You can't compare guardians to champ or minst. They seem OP cause some come to ettens with tanking gear and manage pop pledge + charge in middle of 15 creeps. They don't die but they don't kill any... I haven't met yet a guardian i can't kill even if he use all his CDs (unless he run away ofc). And no guardian can kill any good defiler aswell.

I completely agree with Kori. And I wasn't talking about 1vs1 but about group play. Guardians are just perfect to charge the enemy group and create some confusion but dps?Nah... a single healer in a group would be more than enough to make harmless any guardian.

1vs1 is a different story. Guardian deal a low dpw but still, having a great survivability, they can manage many 1vs1 fights, though defilers and wls probably are something beyond their dps limits..

Originally Posted by Etheldar

Pff who let Trollogaring on forums

@ Vital

Grats on rank, haven't seen you around lately . Told you, I can only give you advice or two but most of the work you do by yourself.
.

so it was you, who told him, that is better start with stun on me, instead of dot from stealth, damn

gz

First of all the story of minstrels: Solo if it's a good minstrel, they can get down a lot. While pre RoI they were also nukers, but their heals were just #### (100-200). So it was just a ''glass cannon''. Since their heals improved (basically meant for solo play I reckon, not ettens), the hate improved. Nobody whined about them before RoI, if I'm correct. Ok well one 3k hit is ok, but if you score a 3k hit on them they're certainly dead. The hate grows against them every day, new minstrels in the moors isn't helping (no offence but look at Noal going 1v1, I saw him 1v1ing Tekluk and he just ran without ws, healed himself up, got back in ws, FD and all the #### with hit). I mean that's just ridiculous playing. The main reason of getting a minstrel first lies there: the hate towards the class. But what navhar says: minstrels are so hard to get down if they're at the right spot, so a group might rather go with a champ, so they cna get at least 20 infamy for a wipe.

Again guys you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say guardian DPS is unbearable for a minute. Also I didn't say it's their DPS what seemingly makes them OP. And heck I didn't even remotely compared their DPS to champs'/minis'. Do you take me for a fool? I've said their DPS is pretty nice compared to their survivability and it isn't that bad when you also consider the fact that it's the lowest dps on freepside apart from shield warden's. And you reply that their DPS isn't so bad that they outDPS healers' heals and no way they can be compared to the gmode classes on freepside. Yes it can be outhealed very easily with a healer class. I know that with WL goggles their DPS seems laughable. And again, I didn't say their DPS is mad. Just that it's perfectly OK imo. The only ridiculous DPS on freepside is shield warden. But then, those guys are just invincible.

Chrim did score such a dev, I remember it perfectly. It wasn't 3k, I've said it was near 3k. 2,6-2,7k if I remember right. Shall I dig up the screenshot for you? I'm not in the mood for joking. Yes, it was very lucky, it happens very rarely, but it did happen. I usually couldn't get him under 5-6k before he finished me, while he has 3k less morale than me.

Do you deny that 1-1,2k crits happen pretty often even for some morale hugging guards? Wargs/weavers can rarely score such. WLs/defis pretty much never. Reaver can, few times, BA too. But also don't forget the fact that it's pretty much the worst on freepside, and also don't forget the armored Panzer survivability to go with it too. And yet guard is still not among the most OP classes.

If you call guard DPS ridiculous, you might as well call reaver's DPS that too. When I spar any good guard he usually wins, with around 1,5-2k morale left, but that's mostly due to his higher mits. And it's not just me, 90% of reaver vs guard spars at 1v1 end in the same way. And I know their DPS is not a main focus in group play. Ofc not. If they would get DPS that somewhat rivals, let's say, champs', I would downright quit this damn game.

And I rarely ever see any guard below 10k morale.

Originally Posted by Vilda

so it was you, who told him, that is better start with stun on me, instead of dot from stealth, damn

gz

I know nothing about that!

Originally Posted by Tolgaring

First of all the story of minstrels: Solo if it's a good minstrel, they can get down a lot. While pre RoI they were also nukers, but their heals were just #### (100-200). So it was just a ''glass cannon''. Since their heals improved (basically meant for solo play I reckon, not ettens), the hate improved. Nobody whined about them before RoI, if I'm correct. Ok well one 3k hit is ok, but if you score a 3k hit on them they're certainly dead. The hate grows against them every day, new minstrels in the moors isn't helping (no offence but look at Noal going 1v1, I saw him 1v1ing Tekluk and he just ran without ws, healed himself up, got back in ws, FD and all the #### with hit). I mean that's just ridiculous playing. The main reason of getting a minstrel first lies there: the hate towards the class. But what navhar says: minstrels are so hard to get down if they're at the right spot, so a group might rather go with a champ, so they cna get at least 20 infamy for a wipe.

No doubt since the minstrel class got buffed, many new faces appeared in the moors lately, but it's normal, usually people tend to try out the new things and posibilities even if they borders with a godmode. Many good minstrels stopped playing seeing in how bad direction the things have gone, or maybe they just got bored of the current state of the game. However again, there are players that got adapted to that state pretty quick, that know their posibilities and they don't really try to abuse by choice with their whole kit of toys they have.

In the end the fault lies in the developers that scaled e.g. the minstrel class to be comparative to the PvE aspects not PvMP ones. They add to the creep side some slight changes that may keep people in game yet for a while, until they won't offer something new "exotic" to release, but the problem is that it's not even changing anything at all, considering the freep crits/devs and the whole range of the lifesaving skills that creepside lack.

It's helpful to download the Combat Analysis plugin to see black on white how does the things looks on the pure numbers. 45k damage done to the single minstrel in a semi self healing mode (operating mainly on ballads and loads of cc and gradually burning my power in time) along with over 300 hits to make him dead, while from his side 17k damage and about 50-ish hits makes things clear enough, although the average damage amount I have to deal to make them dead is about 25-30k which is still terribly a lot.