What a load of rubbish. With the same level cap, but a new area with a new faction, the content will be done by everyone. Also because that new faction would have slightly better gear, slightly better LI scrolls or other neat barter items.
Level based progression is meaningless because the enviroment levels with you.
I absolutely agree with Pathalion. This is still a video game, and gamers like challenge. Truth be told there is NO challenge if there is no level increase. Without a level cap increase Riders of Rohan becomes nothing more than an optional theme park.
Sig graphic is wrong. Tailor: 0/0, Forester 7/7, Prospector 7/7
I absolutely agree with Pathalion. This is still a video game, and gamers like challenge. Truth be told there is NO challenge if there is no level increase. Without a level cap increase Riders of Rohan becomes nothing more than an optional theme park.
How does a level cap increase guarantee a challenge? Whether content is challenging depends on the content, not the level.
So if you want to play a MMO sans levels go play The Secret World by Funcom. LOTRO has levels, and expansions are going to expand those levels.
Interesting, instead of answering question above you repeat the same dead-horse "go play other games" line. Your version has no monopoly over here by the way. OD & Great River laugh at you right now.
So if you want to play a MMO sans levels go play The Secret World by Funcom. LOTRO has levels, and expansions are going to expand those levels.
Where did I say I wanted to play a MMO without levels? Where did I even imply it? If this is your way of hiding how wrong you are, you're not fooling anyone.
And yes, LOTRO has levels, I even like levels. I don't like the cap being upped twice by ten levels, in such short succession. You might be unaffected because you don't have alts or you don't put much effort in your gear, but other people do put in a lot of effort. And getting alts up to be a decent contribution in groups is getting more and more of an unpleasant chore not worth doing.
Where did I say I wanted to play a MMO without levels? Where did I even imply it? If this is your way of hiding how wrong you are, you're not fooling anyone.
And yes, LOTRO has levels, I even like levels. I don't like the cap being upped twice by ten levels, in such short succession. You might be unaffected because you don't have alts or you don't put much effort in your gear, but other people do put in a lot of effort. And getting alts up to be a decent contribution in groups is getting more and more of an unpleasant chore not worth doing.
Turbine has to make the expansion accessible for everyone. If they tuned the content for only highly geared players then it would be too difficult for non-geared players. If they tuned it for non-geared players then there would no challenge for geared players. Increasing the level cap to 85 creates an even challenge for everyone. Does this make sense?
Where did I say I wanted to play a MMO without levels? Where did I even imply it? If this is your way of hiding how wrong you are, you're not fooling anyone.
And yes, LOTRO has levels, I even like levels. I don't like the cap being upped twice by ten levels, in such short succession. You might be unaffected because you don't have alts or you don't put much effort in your gear, but other people do put in a lot of effort. And getting alts up to be a decent contribution in groups is getting more and more of an unpleasant chore not worth doing.
Don't quite buy that.
I've pushed 11 chars past lvl 65 in this game and I am working on my 12th that which is now lvl 58. With the exception of levelling during SoA I can state with some certainty that levelling is NOT the barrier that prevents one getting an alt up to a decent level of contribution - that rests squarely on the shoulders the wonderful Legendary Item system. Rep also to a lesser extent if you factor in the need to grind rep for say the Enedwaith or Limelight Gorge gear. No doubt also Mounted Combat will play a part when RoR gets released.
Bango (85 Burg) - Extraordinary Adventurer's League
Hamsalbella (85 Mini) - Radix Lecti
And a few others.
Turbine has to make the expansion accessible for everyone. If they tuned the content for only highly geared players then it would be too difficult for non-geared players. If they tuned it for non-geared players then there would no challenge for geared players. Increasing the level cap to 85 creates an even challenge for everyone. Does this make sense?
Not really. The geared players will always have the advantage. Whether it will be the relics and item xp to level the 3rd age items they find to keep their dps up, or their raid gear that will be better than quest gear for a long time.
Turbine has to make the expansion accessible for everyone. If they tuned the content for only highly geared players then it would be too difficult for non-geared players. If they tuned it for non-geared players then there would no challenge for geared players. Increasing the level cap to 85 creates an even challenge for everyone. Does this make sense?
By not raising the level cap they do "make the expansion accessible for everyone" gives more time to acquire clasp, dragon cloak, 1st age ect... and makes them relevant for more then a couple weeks lol
I cant believe you guys are still arguing this.Their raising it.End of story.Whether you like it or not that has been turbine stance when it concerns lvling.I agree they are getting closer together but this xpac is coming soon.
I cant believe you guys are still arguing this.Their raising it.End of story.Whether you like it or not that has been turbine stance when it concerns lvling.I agree they are getting closer together but this xpac is coming soon.
Maybe you don't understand the point of discussion. We know it is being raised. But if people don't give their opinions, how will Turbine even know it's an issue. Feel free not to participate if you have nothing to say, but debate is going to continue on every subject ever until the end of time. At least until Big Brother. You may as well get used to it.
Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...
By not raising the level cap they do "make the expansion accessible for everyone" gives more time to acquire clasp, dragon cloak, 1st age ect... and makes them relevant for more then a couple weeks lol
And then what do you introduce in the new expansion as upgrades? Oh, wait, we go another year with different names for the pretty much the same things that no one seems to go after because they already have stuff almost as good.
You are also mentioning end game items and not everyone plays end game. So whats in it for them? Same difficulty mobs in different zones. Much as we may like to pretend that everyone out there reads every quest and plays only to experience the story, some of us also like to gear up for more difficult encounters, even if we are casual.
I started an alternate Lore Master last week and have completed most of Bree and some fringe areas. I'm already level 22 and somewhat disheartened a bit to enter The Shire and the other starting areas to build up virtues and do the quests and deeds. Don't get me wrong, I love the storyline and I'm enjoying it somewhat, but the challenge of course is lacking at this point. So now we have RoI and GR that are in the same level ranges. Do we really need a 3rd expansion in that same range?
Lets be truly honest here. GR did not thrill all the players (I loved it btw) because some feel that reaching cap is all there is. You can see it in some of the threads complaining that they steamrolled through it for little (in their view) rewards. We see threads all the time demanding better rewards to entice players to group/raid. Is that going to happen with an expansion geared on the same level and similar rewards?
What a load of rubbish. With the same level cap, but a new area with a new faction, the content will be done by everyone. Also because that new faction would have slightly better gear, slightly better LI scrolls or other neat barter items.
Level based progression is meaningless because the enviroment levels with you.
But there would be no challenge; all the mobs would be the same level as the previous update, in this case 75, but everybody would also have leveled to 75. Also, maybe I'm being thick, but how is new gear advancing your character? It's just gear; take it off and your character is exactly the same as it would be after completing the previous update area. Same stats etc.
I'm sorry but I do not count new gear or LI scrolls advancing a character. But, maybe, that's just me.
The level cap increase is like cancer. You want stability but instead you get more and more. Instead of organs failing you have to ditch alts because it's just impossible/not worth it to keep them all equipped in top condition.
There is no progression. You may improve 20% from level 75 to 85, but if the enviroment improves equally your actual progress is zero, nothing, nada. A few intelligent souls in this thread have pointed that out and don't get the respect they deserve for their fine vision.
Lore zealots and quest-fanatics can just keep on questing when a new landmass is added. And to let them into a little secret: even hardcore raiders will do the quests. They add reputation and currencies for a new faction. And plenty of them will also read most if not all of them. It's a shocker, I know. Pretty much everybody would enjoy the new content without a cap increase.
To the ones who get their biggest thrill out of getting levels and new skills: Roll alts! Instead from going from 75-85, you can go from 1-75, eight more times next to your main! And if you want them well equipped, maybe then you will also see that the cancerous growth of the level cap is something requiring a cure.
Apologies if I am pointing out the blindingly obvious to you, but why on earth are you playing an MMO from the "WoW" genre whose whole premise is to issue regular content updates that have a level cap increase attached?
Bango (85 Burg) - Extraordinary Adventurer's League
Hamsalbella (85 Mini) - Radix Lecti
And a few others.
But there would be no challenge; all the mobs would be the same level as the previous update, in this case 75, but everybody would also have leveled to 75. Also, maybe I'm being thick, but how is new gear advancing your character? It's just gear; take it off and your character is exactly the same as it would be after completing the previous update area. Same stats etc.
I'm sorry but I do not count new gear or LI scrolls advancing a character. But, maybe, that's just me.
Try taking off all your gear and see what level mobs you can kill.
The only progression you get in Lotro is gear - if I had level 75 gear on my level 45 burglar I could handily run through Mirkwood with him even though I would get massive level penalties, but the dps and stats would more than offset that.
What a load of rubbish. With the same level cap, but a new area with a new faction, the content will be done by everyone. Also because that new faction would have slightly better gear, slightly better LI scrolls or other neat barter items.
Level based progression is meaningless because the enviroment levels with you.
But there would be no challenge; all the mobs would be the same level as the previous update, in this case 75, but everybody would also have leveled to 75. Also, maybe I'm being thick, but how is new gear advancing your character? It's just gear; take it off and your character is exactly the same as it would be after completing the previous update area. Same stats etc.
I'm sorry but I do not count new gear or LI scrolls advancing a character. But, maybe, that's just me.
Also, maybe I'm being thick, but how is new gear advancing your character? It's just gear; take it off and your character is exactly the same as it would be after completing the previous update area. Same stats etc.
I don't know, you tell me - you are the one advocating for higher cap while new levels bring negligible upgrades and all of advancement are handled by gear (RoI, most likely RoR too).
That's the irony - you claim you want progression gear is not providing - and you will get... progression through gear only
Not signed. I am anti-level increase for the following reasons:
1. Older areas of the game (Forochel, Angmar, Moria, Lothlorien, Mirkwood, Enedwaith, etc etc) become increasingly irrelevant with each cap increase, apart from alt levelling. Why develop and build all these wonderful areas, only to make them meaningless? Why build obsolescence into these areas of the game?
2. Level cap = unnecessary grind. Honestly, grinding higher caps is just busy work, meant to keep us pouring money into Turbine/WB's pockets.
To those who say "there is nothing to do" except grind to another cap level: party with friends and kin in an Inn, take a walk (I have walked, yes walked, from Forochel to Endewaith), rp, raid, explore, fish, farm and cook, smoke pipeweed while watching the sunset, etc etc.
If I want to "party with friends in an inn", "take a walk", "fish, farm, cook and smoke pipweed while watching the sunset" I'll do all this in real life! If I want to fight orcs, trolls etc and take part in an epic fantasy story I'll play LoTRO!
I've never read anything so silly to be honest; why on earth would I want to do in game, things I can do in real life much better?
The level cap increase is like cancer. You want stability but instead you get more and more. Instead of organs failing you have to ditch alts because it's just impossible/not worth it to keep them all equipped in top condition.
There is no progression. You may improve 20% from level 75 to 85, but if the enviroment improves equally your actual progress is zero, nothing, nada. A few intelligent souls in this thread have pointed that out and don't get the respect they deserve for their fine vision.
Lore zealots and quest-fanatics can just keep on questing when a new landmass is added. And to let them into a little secret: even hardcore raiders will do the quests. They add reputation and currencies for a new faction. And plenty of them will also read most if not all of them. It's a shocker, I know. Pretty much everybody would enjoy the new content without a cap increase.
To the ones who get their biggest thrill out of getting levels and new skills: Roll alts! Instead from going from 75-85, you can go from 1-75, eight more times next to your main! And if you want them well equipped, maybe then you will also see that the cancerous growth of the level cap is something requiring a cure.
But maybe we don't want to do the whole 1 to 75 areas and quests again; we've already done it once after all. What we want is new areas and quests and a way to advance our characters in those new areas.
Periodic increases are expected by most players, I know my interest would wane if a level based game never increased over time. That being said, how much of an increase should be given at one time AND how often should that happen are the real questions in my mind. My view is that increases should happen in incremental stages and ONLY with new content. My goal ingame is not to level for leveling sake, it's always to get someplace I want to go or new gear that requires a higher level. To me it's the content/environment which drives the leveling! This hasn't changed since playing Asheron's Call ten years ago, who cares about your lvl #, it's what you can do or where you can go, it is quite simply whatever floats your boat!
I would rather Turbine slow the rate of leveling as you get to higher levels in order for you to either have more time to appreciate the challenges as well as increase the number you may do before you reach say lvl 85. I realize this is done somewhat with the 'points' required to level, however I really don't think it takes much longer to level at 75 than it does at lvl 50 - it's all dependent on the content you're able to access.
I also think that by adding less content and increasing lvl caps more often, Turbine will likely bring in a higher revenue stream from the LOTRO store. My suggestion is the opposite of course, more content and less increases to the lvl cap.
My impression of the leveling rate is that it is an inverse exponential function. IOW it takes more time to gain a level near the cap than it does at the beginning and in the middle levels. This is particularly true when you are a completionist like me who would rather finish all or nearly all of the content in a zone before moving on. My live main character is a Lore-master. It took fewer hours per level when I first started him from 65 to 75 than it did near the end of the run. Now I did do the 'power-level' thing once to get him to 65 before RoI was released, so he was ahead of my other alts, who get played one or two levels at a time and rotated. I am an alt-aholic too, so I have all 9 classes, where the youngest are 20s - 30s and most are 40s - 50s.
I don't like level cap increases for the principal reason that they make older content obsolete. By which I mean, There's no fun or challenge to be had in doing it.
You can't do it as originally intended anymore, because soloing a 6 man full of grey mobs is not the same as experiencing the six man when it was a six man, full of challenge and danger.
That said, at least in LOTRO the devs are making more and more instances that scale up in levels, and this mitigates my main dislike of level cap increases.
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