Thread: Runekeeper blackout scheduled for 1st of march.

RK blackout scheduled for the 1st of march 2012, unless they either fix the multitude of problems with healing, and general squishyness, and zombie columbus gets on here and COMMUNICATES with us in depth, as to what is happening with our class.

Creepside did it and it was met with success even before the strike, because they already have Orion on the case.
We have complained endlessly with no results, time to take action, time to get our healing back, time to hear what our dev plans for our class!
i care not what others do, but i'm striking on the said day, let us be heard!

Originally Posted by loki84

RK blackout scheduled for the 1st of march 2012, unless they either fix the multitude of problems with healing, and general squishyness, and zombie columbus gets on here and COMMUNICATES with us in depth, as to what is happening with our class.

Creepside did it and it was met with success even before the strike, because they already have Orion on the case.
We have complained endlessly with no results, time to take action, time to get our healing back, time to hear what our dev plans for our class!
i care not what others do, but i'm striking on the said day, let us be heard!

Can you make a numeric list of the problems? Since its a multitude can you limit it to 20 please. Im just curious have a 75 rk havent healed much after dragioch bugged several times but I had the tank hot'd up....

Please elaborate on the problems as well, in order and I will consider joining your blackout.

me too please loved my rk you could dps toss fire heal like mad even debuff with frost? and its a newer class? why is everyone screaming fix me?

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Can you make a numeric list of the problems? Since its a multitude can you limit it to 20 please. Im just curious have a 75 rk havent healed much after dragioch bugged several times but I had the tank hot'd up....

Please elaborate on the problems as well, in order and I will consider joining your blackout.

well we could just read the rk forum to see what they are.

1: The rk healing bug that has been posted for, gosh i forget how long, that see's no replies from our class developer.
Where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.

2: the perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. it has been stated by only a few people (vs the majority) that rk's can heal any content, being possible doesn't mean it's viable or wise however. our healing needs a buff.

3: the general amount of discontent has risen too far when people asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.

4: our legendary traits..... pathetic, this explains itself, steady hands, fall to our wrath, what a joke, not to mention our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all, not to mention flurry of words...... all amidst reports that distracting winds won't drop aggro

5: i'm not gonna even bother pointing out that hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, if hunters are our competition, then why can they do that, yet i (to give an example) can only hit 12k at most, (once in forever) WITH 2100 will!

6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.

7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! ### is this?! when a mini takes both healing and dps slots from rk's it's time to not play an rk..... i won't bother pointing out that they don't have to pay with attunement, super squishyness, and legendary traits to full heal themselves when in a pinch and then go straight back to dpsing as if nothing had happened.

there is lots more, i'll leave it for others to fill in though, but a short look at the titles of threads in our forums should be enough to convince you, not to mention the upcoming buffs to creeps, which will spell doom for the already struggling rk.
if that's not enough, we could threaten to quit healing, but since everyone already takes 2 minstrels it wouldn't be noticed, which should tell you more than anything the state of rk healing.

I can understand the sentiment of the OP.
Primarily for the healing bug/lockout issue and our wimpy heals.

But I can support most everything else to some degree. Squishiness needs to be addressed when wargs get their buffs. I think we're ok on the squish factor now compared to LMs. If wargs get everything that's proposed... we're screwed in PvP.

Originally Posted by loki84

well we could just read the rk forum to see what they are.

1: The rk healing bug that has been posted for, gosh i forget how long, that see's no replies from our class developer.
Where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.

2: the perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. it has been stated by only a few people (vs the majority) that rk's can heal any content, being possible doesn't mean it's viable or wise however. our healing needs a buff.

3: the general amount of discontent has risen too far when people asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.

4: our legendary traits..... pathetic, this explains itself, steady hands, fall to our wrath, what a joke, not to mention our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all, not to mention flurry of words...... all amidst reports that distracting winds won't drop aggro

5: i'm not gonna even bother pointing out that hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, if hunters are our competition, then why can they do that, yet i (to give an example) can only hit 12k at most, (once in forever) WITH 2100 will!

6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.

7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! ### is this?! when a mini takes both healing and dps slots from rk's it's time to not play an rk..... i won't bother pointing out that they don't have to pay with attunement, super squishyness, and legendary traits to full heal themselves when in a pinch and then go straight back to dpsing as if nothing had happened.

there is lots more, i'll leave it for others to fill in though, but a short look at the titles of threads in our forums should be enough to convince you, not to mention the upcoming buffs to creeps, which will spell doom for the already struggling rk.
if that's not enough, we could threaten to quit healing, but since everyone already takes 2 minstrels it wouldn't be noticed, which should tell you more than anything the state of rk healing.

Well said. +rep

Steady hands and fall to our wrath? And what about Wondrous Foreshadowing? this is the true legendary joke.

I have already non-subbed due to the level of attention the so called developers pays to this class.

But honestly, we wont get any sort of love until Rohan starts to get closer and they need some sort of excuse to makes us pay for it. They will post a class diary explaining whats wrong with RK and how are they going to "Fix it", or maybe theyll surprise us and say everything is totally fine on RK and we get more nerfs!

Expect this non-communitication to continue for an about 5-6months, then maybe Zombie will post here once or twice and leave to make some very very cool Store items again!

Originally Posted by loki84

i care not what others do, but i'm striking on the said day, let us be heard!

How is everyone not playing their RKs going to affect the devs?

Originally Posted by loki84

1: The rk healing bug that has been posted for, gosh i forget how long, that see's no replies from our class developer. Where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.

I have yet to experience this bug. It seems to be very selective on when/how it appears. It seems people below level 75 experience it as well so it's not coupled to the ToO healing sets. AFE seems to be involved as well as Rousing Words, yet not all are affected! To me, as being somewhat experienced in software development, this sounds like a timing or race condition issue. These can be very difficult to nail down.

It also seems that some groups are more affected by others, i.e. groups that have about the same set-up every time. Ping times, connection issues, virus scanners, whatever may be involved! As a software company (any software, not only games) I would not acknowledge a bug (as a bug) if I cannot reproduce it. The best thing we as a community can do is to make sure to note as much as possible on this issue and make sure to /bug it every time it happens. Remember to include *everything*: buffs used, what other players/classes were there, which instance, how far in, particular event happened when bugging out etc and so forth.

Help yourself by helping Turbine in this matter!

Originally Posted by loki84

2: the perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. it has been stated by only a few people (vs the majority) that rk's can heal any content, being possible doesn't mean it's viable or wise however. our healing needs a buff.

We lack the ability to heal spike damage, that's all. So, yeah we do need a small buff in that department. We're still way more HPP efficient than minstrels and can deliver comparable amounts of HPS.

Oh, but you're not talking about healing are you? You're talking about "not being able to complete the instance without +20% melee damage"? Zerg:ing content rather than knowing how to play gives faster runs as long as your healer can keep up. Keeping up becomes easier if it takes 15% less time to complete fights. Yeah, I see the logic here.

Originally Posted by loki84

3: the general amount of discontent has risen too far when people asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.

Don't feed the trolls. Don't spread urban myths. "Oh I heard Rune-Keepers are broken, it must be true because I read it on an Internet forum!" Do I have "Buffing Envy" on my Rune-Keeper? Some, yeah... Some people will only see +20% MELEE DAMAGE. That's how people work.

Originally Posted by loki84

4: our legendary traits..... pathetic, this explains itself, steady hands, fall to our wrath, what a joke, not to mention our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all, not to mention flurry of words...... all amidst reports that distracting winds won't drop aggro

That Which Does Not Kill Us is pretty good. But otherwise SCORE on that point.

Originally Posted by loki84

6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.

Even Minstrels goes splat if staying too close to Dargnakh. What's your point?

Originally Posted by loki84

7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! ### is this?! when a mini takes both healing and dps slots from rk's it's time to not play an rk..... i won't bother pointing out that they don't have to pay with attunement, super squishyness, and legendary traits to full heal themselves when in a pinch and then go straight back to dpsing as if nothing had happened.

Lightning is anemic at the moment and in serious need of buffing. The problem with lightning is the spikes! Buff the base and the spikes go up. Once the spikes go up so will the QQ from creeps. Out comes the nerf bat and we're back to square one.

Try fire, it's truly rocking! Did anyone say sustained 2k DPS? Except in the Moors of course...

Considering that we pretty much always raid T2 Orthanc with an RK healer, and considering that another RK in the kin is consistently seeing crits around 3k on basic lightning skills (i.e., not EC), I don't think that healing and lightning DPS are really in a bad place.

However, I will stipulate that:

The RK/WL bug is annoying and hugely unfortunate when it happens;

Yes, Minstrels have Anthem of War and other buffs that RKs don't; this really isn't too big of an issue, but 3/5 of the Orthanc challenge modes are DPS races, so I won't deny that it could be somewhat of a factor;

And maybe a few Legendary skills could use a tweak (and honestly, I'd like to see the steady attunement costs lowered a little bit, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen).

Overall, it's not like the RK is broken - it just has room for improvement.

Personally, the biggest thing I'd like to see addressed is probably not even within the purview of the RK dev - instance environments in which the RK stone just falls through the floor. If just that one little thing were fixed that'd be really nice.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Can you make a numeric list of the problems? Since its a multitude can you limit it to 20 please. Im just curious have a 75 rk havent healed much after dragioch bugged several times but I had the tank hot'd up....

Oh my, you played a RK and healed the tank? A captain is more than enough to heal him. Now i understand why you do believe RK healing is fine :P

Now seriously, RK healing isn´t THAT bad, when things are in control it´s fine, at least if you have great gear. But once things get out of control ... it´s meh.

Saw this on the crit thread:
Unitedstates scored a critical hit with Epic Conclusion on Itzbitz for 12,042 Lightning damage to Morale. That was today in a RVR setting on Brandywine. I have 12,188 morale......techinally a one shot.

Nuff said.

Originally Posted by loki84

well we could just read the rk forum to see what they are.

I assumed since you posted a thread you wanted participation in it, your response above sounds very defensive as if you assume because you think there are a lot of problems your view is shared. Arrogance on the internet is always funny, thanks for that.

1: The rk healing bug that has been posted for, gosh i forget how long, that see's no replies from our class developer.
Where inductions cause the rk to become locked and unable to affect anything, (much like the wl bug strangely) and which spreads to the rest of the group causing a wipe.

Yep thats 1

2: the perception by many that rk's are a poor mans mini. it has been stated by only a few people (vs the majority) that rk's can heal any content, being possible doesn't mean it's viable or wise however. our healing needs a buff.

Rk's arent mini's, despite that being obvious some RK's simply cant figure it out. This isnt a bug its a perception and your rational within the quote is evidence enough of why nothing dramatic needs to be done (other then EFTA becoming a spike heal). In terms of the miniroty stating that rk's can heal any content, its a factual statement. Even though the majority you reference dosent believe it to be "viable" it dosent change the fact. Thats the problem with facts, at their core you simply cannot dismiss them. RK's can heal any content in LOTRO, thats a fact. An inconvient one for the RK's who want to be mini's, but a fact regardless.

3: the general amount of discontent has risen too far when people asking about rk's are actively advised to not play the class, I think that speaks for itself.

Subjective and not a design issue. you proclaiming something has "risen to far" is irrelevant, you are not an authority.

4: our legendary traits..... pathetic, this explains itself, steady hands, fall to our wrath, what a joke, not to mention our power regain skill, which hasn't been scaled at all, not to mention flurry of words...... all amidst reports that distracting winds won't drop aggro

A specific to the RK and not perception bravo you are now 2 for 4. Steady hands could use a redo, wont arue with that one.

5: i'm not gonna even bother pointing out that hunters have been recorded hitting as high as 22k devs on training dummies, if hunters are our competition, then why can they do that, yet i (to give an example) can only hit 12k at most, (once in forever) WITH 2100 will!

Your first sentence dosent make sense, you arent going to bother pointing it out, yet you attempt to with some hersay of a hunter hitting 22k on a training dummy? Then go on to proclaim hunters are competition (what happened to mini's?) how exactly is this a problem for RK's? is your premise that other classes can do things that RK's cant? (isnt that the point?), I mean you want heavy armor too?

6: Squishyness, even morale traited rk's are getting 1 shotted by pre-programmed random attacks, dargnakh to name one of the main culprits. but also others.

3/6 still at 50% not bad. Yep mitigations should be looked at you'll get no argument on this point. Ive seen 7k morale 1shots on an RK, it happened to me.

7: It has been parsed that equally geared mini's do slightly more dps than lightning rk's while in warspeech! ### is this?! when a mini takes both healing and dps slots from rk's it's time to not play an rk..... i won't bother pointing out that they don't have to pay with attunement, super squishyness, and legendary traits to full heal themselves when in a pinch and then go straight back to dpsing as if nothing had happened.

Again back to the comparative to mini's, you ever watch a dog chase its tail? Mini's are the OP class of ROI to now,everyone knows it. however Ive had this conversation with others and to date Ive seen 10 or so examples of RK's loosing spots to mini's. Of the thousands that happen a day id venture to say this happens less then 2% of the time. However not one post, your quote above is a fine example removes the simple fact. RK's can heal and dps all content in the game at the highest level with very good outputs.

You do realize RK's arent mini's right?

there is lots more, i'll leave it for others to fill in though, but a short look at the titles of threads in our forums should be enough to convince you, not to mention the upcoming buffs to creeps, which will spell doom for the already struggling rk.

Im not convienced and Ive read every post in the RK forum for nearly a year. Im convienced a lot of RK's should be playing mini's, thats about all I have garnered here since I leveled my RK some time ago. If anyone is struggling in LOTRO something is wrong, this is not a hard game. Pontificating on and on, thread after thread about the poor RK and basing it off a comparative to a mini is getting long in the tooth.

if that's not enough, we could threaten to quit healing, but since everyone already takes 2 minstrels it wouldn't be noticed, which should tell you more than anything the state of rk healing.

This sums it up nicely, your speaking in irrational absolutes however you fit in well with the RK community though. "everyone already takes 2 minstrels" is factually incorrect. I understand the use of words and phrasing to make a point on the internet, particularly when you wnat action ive done it in the creep sections, wardens did it in theirs. Sadly it seems to be the only way turbine listens. Im confident ZC reads the forums and the RK forum but you havent made any arguments that negate the fact of the RK

It can heal any content in the game and can DPS any content in the game. Thats a fact that cant be denied, what your talking about here is mostly perception and well bull####. None the less I wish you well in your quest, the next time im on freepside on my server and see glff filled with "need healer" (no mention of a mini) I'll think of you and hope you're out there ready to pick up the spot.

Originally Posted by Bradegor

Oh my, you played a RK and healed the tank? A captain is more than enough to heal him. Now i understand why you do believe RK healing is fine :P

Now seriously, RK healing isn´t THAT bad, when things are in control it´s fine, at least if you have great gear. But once things get out of control ... it´s meh.

You know ive healed more then draigoch dont be cute Bradegor. I made my reply above to the OP, I'll get out of the thread so you all can have your monthly QQ session about not being mini's.

By the way, you know from 7:46 am to 8:10am you are my favorite poster. Im going to give you a qoute because I know you really are waiting on what I have to say next......

"I feel like I'm in the middle of the pool drowning, and all of you are sitting on the edge dipping your toes in and bitching about how cold the water is. Get in here!" Jack nicholson.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

<snip>I'll get out of the thread so you all can have your monthly QQ session about not being mini's.

But IdonwannabeaMinstrel! I just want an EftA I can use without being out-paced by Glaciers. I want some edge I can dangle in front of thick-headed raid leaders (of which my kin actually have none! We do have raid leaders, no problem there, and they all recognize a good healer without being blinded by what class he/she plays). Put some spark back in lightning (darn those low-energy light bulbs) and make my fire rotation consist of something else than Fiery Ridicule.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

But IdonwannabeaMinstrel! I just want an EftA I can use without being out-paced by Glaciers. I want some edge I can dangle in front of thick-headed raid leaders (of which my kin actually have none! We do have raid leaders, no problem there, and they all recognize a good healer without being blinded by what class he/she plays). Put some spark back in lightning (darn those low-energy light bulbs) and make my fire rotation consist of something else than Fiery Ridicule.

Just tell them the truth, you can heal any content and DPS any content at the highest level. Then go in and do it. Im not sure what servers you guys are on, but night after night, week after week, month after month the 2 main servers I frequent have GLFF filled with groups looking for healers, sometimes for over an hour.

Dps? I mean are RK’s out there really struggling to deal damage, really?

Enjoy the boycott, Ill join too on 3/1 Ill start a mini….

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Just tell them the truth... <snip>

I havn't healed on my mini for over a year at least! I'm only grinding her up so I can get the scholar recipes... Oh, and I'll probably be healing somewhere in a raid on my RK on the 1st of March My fire burns just fine, although it's just a tad on the repetitious side... Lightning could do with a buff though as I'm not quite getting it as high as fire. Champs and hunters don't do damage, they just fill out the slots in a fellowship

I am not saying the idea is wrong. I dunno if I support a blackout or not, but the idea is valid and some attention is seriously needed.

that said, lets be fair...

1) the rk bug is serious. I suspect it is being looked at; large projects and odd bugs can be difficult to locate and resolve.
2) yes, we need buffs to heal endgame content. I am not going to boycott the game over needing a tweak, though.

3) I also have rarely seen multiple people say the class is not worth rolling. That is an eye opener. However, it is not a bullet item in and of itself, it is a result or symptom or whatever of the other bullets in the list...

4) I play most of the classes at level 60+. ROI has been hard on the alts and I need a new PC as ROI also is very sluggish on my old rig, so leveling up tons of alts has been slow. Regardless, they are high enough level for me to say that MANY classes have at least 3 extremely weak legendary traits. This is a problem across most classes; and stems in part from old legendary traits that are no longer as good as they once were due to game changes. Steady hands is an example, it used to be pretty darn nice.

5) One hit from one skill does not mean anything at all outside of silly epeen games. Parse dps on a long fight, if you want to talk about this.

6) serious issue. Random, unavoidable damage should not kill people instantly in most encounters. Once in a while, it can be a funny twist to a fight. All the time, it is not fun anymore.

7) Has it now? The parses are always talked about and rarely linked. Provide the links before making the claims, do not just echo baseless claims. Also show the compared player's gear, or at least their offense & crit rating.

--- all that boils down to the same 3 issues: we die too easy in a couple of fights, our healing needs a buff to handle massive group wide aoe damage, and there is a bug for RK healers that needs to be fixed. Everything else is really just the same sorts of things that can be said of any class: they can all be improved.

Originally Posted by Witch0King

Saw this on the crit thread:
Unitedstates scored a critical hit with Epic Conclusion on Itzbitz for 12,042 Lightning damage to Morale. That was today in a RVR setting on Brandywine. I have 12,188 morale......techinally a one shot.

Nuff said.

LoL, because RKs can pull out 12k crits by pushing one button. Just ignore the other 6-9 skills we had to mash through to get to it, or the mentioned "RvR setting."

I know Unitedstates, I know his gear is great. I also know of Itzbitz (this is my server, lol), who happens to be a spider (mitigations? lol). None of this forms a compelling argument.

I'd love to spend 10-30 minutes tearing apart the rest of the misinformation in this thread, but I'm late for work and only had time to LOL at this.

forusrname is on point, good post.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

You know ive healed more then draigoch dont be cute Bradegor. I made my reply above to the OP, I'll get out of the thread so you all can have your monthly QQ session about not being mini's.

By the way, you know from 7:46 am to 8:10am you are my favorite poster. Im going to give you a qoute because I know you really are waiting on what I have to say next......

"I feel like I'm in the middle of the pool drowning, and all of you are sitting on the edge dipping your toes in and bitching about how cold the water is. Get in here!" Jack nicholson.

We start to look like two old friends/lovers .

+1

My subscription ended today and I won't get a new one until our healing side gets fixed.
If we aren't fixed when update 6 arrives, it'll be bye-bye lotro for me.

Originally Posted by stock

LoL, because RKs can pull out 12k crits by pushing one button. Just ignore the other 6-9 skills we had to mash through to get to it, or the mentioned "RvR setting."

I know Unitedstates, I know his gear is great. I also know of Itzbitz (this is my server, lol), who happens to be a spider (mitigations? lol). None of this forms a compelling argument.

I'd love to spend 10-30 minutes tearing apart the rest of the misinformation in this thread, but I'm late for work and only had time to LOL at this.

forusrname is on point, good post.

What about those 6-9 2-3k hits for then to hit for 12k with a CRIT?

I've debated for a while about actually posting, but... since i know someone actually agrees with me, i'll say what i'm thinking...

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Yep thats 1

I'm not totally sure what this bug is, unless it seems to be the one where none of the "healing attuned requirement" skills become grayed out mid-fight even though i'm healing attuned enough to use them. Yeah. that's irritating...

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Rk's arent mini's, despite that being obvious some RK's simply cant figure it out. This isnt a bug its a perception and your rational within the quote is evidence enough of why nothing dramatic needs to be done (other then EFTA becoming a spike heal). In terms of the miniroty stating that rk's can heal any content, its a factual statement. Even though the majority you reference dosent believe it to be "viable" it dosent change the fact. Thats the problem with facts, at their core you simply cannot dismiss them. RK's can heal any content in LOTRO, thats a fact. An inconvient one for the RK's who want to be mini's, but a fact regardless.

Thank you. I think the HUGE problem is that too many RK's think they are Mini's. "BC is better than EftA!!!!!111one!!" is not really a viable argument. So? it's not the same skill and they don't have the same purpose. That's like saying "Fellowship's Heart has more HPS than my Rune Stone!! NERF!!!". The purpose of EftA is NOT as an emergency heal. You tank should already have several HoTs on him, which will keep him from dying, and then EftA is to catch up his morale bar to the 75-85% range you want to have him hovering as an RK (so as not to need to overheal, but not have him die of a crit or something). If you're complaining that you should be able to use it on that stupid burg who pulled agros and is about to die... well, he shouldn't have done that and dying is his own fault. RK's are all about planning and managing who you needs heals when. Yes there is spike damage, but that's why the tank has 2, 3, 4 HoTs on him. Your spike damage protection is Word of Exaltation (which i don't know how you couldn't have that traited) which should be -20% damage and a 12-14s bubble so you can catch up healing. and it's cooldown is so short, you can throw it all the time. I think it all goes back to the fact that RK's heal in a TOTALLY different way and need a whole different mindset and strategy than a Mini healing. They're preventative, not reactive.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

A specific to the RK and not perception bravo you are now 2 for 4. Steady hands could use a redo, wont arue with that one.

Agreed. A cool idea, but... only really viable if you lose your main healer and you need to quickly switch to healing (which is VERY handy, but... not really something you can plan for or would want to waste an LI on "just in case"). other than that, the three capstone legendaries are VERY powerful. (yes. 5% healing is a LOT) Additionally Do not fall this day is also a powerful debuff, with the chance of a large damaging attack. Martial Runekeeper (or w/e it's called. i never remove it, so i haven't looked at it sense i equipped it back at 50 lol) is almost a must, with the additional morale and power.

[/QUOTE]
Your first sentence dosent make sense, you arent going to bother pointing it out, yet you attempt to with some hersay of a hunter hitting 22k on a training dummy? Then go on to proclaim hunters are competition (what happened to mini's?) how exactly is this a problem for RK's? is your premise that other classes can do things that RK's cant? (isnt that the point?), I mean you want heavy armor too?
[/QUOTE]

This goes back to my previous point of class differences and skill differences. We don't want every class to have a "win" button, or that would be dumb. but in the whole of a class, skills can be super powerful. I would like to have a Fellowship's Heart on my champ, but... in the context of the rest of the class, would be WAY overpowered. (or Epic Conclusion or...) My point is that saying "so and so hit for 1 million once!!!" is not saying hunter DPS is higher. it's saying that it hit ONE time for more than anything i hit one time. *Shrug* DPS is over time. not instance, single skill comparisons.

Healing is a joke
Bubbles are a joke
'Do not fall to..' is a joke
The gear available for that nice build is a joke
DPS, shock horror is actually quite nice!

Lets be serious - RKs can do just about anything in the game that is required of them, however compared to what other classes can do & what they can bring to the fellowship or raid. Given the option you're just not going to take one.
If player A has a minstrel with comparable gear to his RK & is competent at playing every class, you're taking his minstrel, same with hunter, champion & burglar.

Traits need looking at badly, bugs need looking at badly, skills need looking at badly. We need a new developer... badly.

Simply put, the Rune-keeper is the joke class of the game atm, closely followed by the Warden and if you've read what's planned for them, wow...

Originally Posted by Neen_Eldar

Healing is a joke
Bubbles are a joke
'Do not fall to..' is a joke
The gear available for that nice build is a joke
DPS, shock horror is actually quite nice!

Lets be serious - RKs can do just about anything in the game that is required of them, however compared to what other classes can do & what they can bring to the fellowship or raid. Given the option you're just not going to take one.
If player A has a minstrel with comparable gear to his RK & is competent at playing every class, you're taking his minstrel, same with hunter, champion & burglar.

Traits need looking at badly, bugs need looking at badly, skills need looking at badly. We need a new developer... badly.

Simply put, the Rune-keeper is the joke class of the game atm, closely followed by the Warden and if you've read what's planned for them, wow...

+rep for you

This thread has 666 views. If you post here prepare yourself for the eternal flames of HELL!!

Originally Posted by Nathandir

This thread has 666 views. If you post here prepare yourself for the eternal flames of HELL!!

lol i agree.
thorgrum i could pick apart your arguments as well, but it isn't worth my time, needless to say i WANT TO PLAY RK NOT A DAMN MINI!!! yet the fact is, mini's have many comparable skills and a comparable role, therefore thorgrum, you should accept that whoever has the edge in this eternal comparison, will always be the benchmark for the other. you asked for a list purely so you could try to condescend me and feel big about yourself, well grats thorgrum, you have leets to get your gear for you, most people don't. the rest of us have to grind and pug.

also, the same applies to hunters with their dps, even when we had it good we would compare to hunters, it has nothing to do with E-Peens. you need to know what class is optimal for dps, and i will outright laugh at anyone who claims that that is the RK.

to add some more bugs though: WHEN are they gonna fix our runestone dropping through the floor? it bugs out mobs, makes our stone unavailable for tanking and healing, and if we happen to be using healing we lose the bonus of having it present when we use rousing words, this has been a KNOWN issue for over a year.

this next isn't so much a bug as a gross oversight: how about using IOFE? it's suppossed to help the group right? not outright kill the healer? ever been in any distributed damage instance where having it up insta kills you from full morale? lightning wing springs to mind.... do we even need the takes 10% damage anymore? couldn't we just make it normal 10% damage resistance for the group?

and yes, we do need a new dev, one that responds to us rather than ignores us.
it takes 5 minutes to write something here and let us know what's happening, 5 minutes, which he can't seem to spare in several months TO DO HIS JOB!!!! has zombie ever even rolled an rk? has he ever raided with one? i doubt it.
GIVE US A NEW DEV!!!! THIS ONE IS BROKEN!

Originally Posted by Witch0King

What about those 6-9 2-3k hits for then to hit for 12k with a CRIT?

This concept of scoring large hits on creeps is not unique to the RK. I have seen hunters kill creeps with just a Burn hot HS while burgs grey bar and kill creeps in under 5 seconds. Let's not forget mini and champ's insane damage and survivability. LMs, when played right, can take on overwhelming amount of creeps with their aoe. Guards and captains can hold their own as well. The only freep class that could use a buff is wardens.

The fact is, this is an issue that should be dealt from creep buffs not freep nerfs. Creeps have neither the morale or mitigations to match freep DPS which is what needs to be fixed. Nerfing freep damage will only result in PVE being impossible. Your argument has little to do with the purpose of this thread.

The only thing with regards to our healing that I'll grant is that we have some problems with repetitive spike damage while healing through certain boss fights. The idea, however, that we can only heal when everything is going perfectly and that we have no way to deal with things spiraling out of control is preposterous. I've done a lot of raid healing, and dealt with a lot of spiraling. We can save our groups in a lot of situations with enough preparation and skill. No, we don't have quite as many instant heals as a minstrel does, but the ones we do have are enough to suffice in the vast majority of situations that one routinely encounters. Our healing is far from a joke, and always has been.

I will say we're a bit too squishy though. We're the only light armor class without an instant heal of some kind. We have no self-bubble while DPSing. The only thing we can do about random damage is not get damaged, which is fine and dandy until you realize that often times we have no control over it. Solo, we're great, because we can control our pulls and we have a buttload of CC, but in a raid CC will only get you so far, and generally that's not very far at all. I haven't gone into the moors since ROI came out, but the reports of how we fare there don't surprise me at all.

However, our damage is fine. For lightning the crits come more often even if they're lower, and if it parses lower than fire it's not a huge deal because it makes up for it with the mobility and greater CC potential. Fire is better than ever, if more monotonous than it used to be, and can now finally be used in the vast majority of raid boss fights with the removal of the DoT resets. People can make all the unsubstantiated claims they want, and repeat the same line about how every class and its mother does more damage and they know because they parse and their friends parse and that's all the data they need, but in the absence of solid numbers and context and tests made under controlled circumstances it's all just so much hot air. Really, it's weird, I haven't seen a single damage parse on this subforum since ROI came out. Why do people believe the stuff that gets repeated endlessly on this forum just because everyone repeats it? No one that I've seen has presented any facts whatsoever. And how many crits you have and how high they go are utterly irrelevent, because what matters is DPS. And only DPS. Hunters can make as many 20k crits on training dummies they want, it means absolutely nothing.

I won't say that we don't have issues. Fire is much, much more boring than it used to be and I agree that it needs to be shaken up a bit. We have spike damage issues while healing. The healing bug is ridiculous and needs to be fixed, and will, but don't expect to hear about it because they never talk about these things. And we're squishy. But our issues are not even remotely sufficient to justify the quantity of angst on this forum. It's ridiculous. I'm still having fun, and I'm still a potent force while both DPSing and healing. We don't even have any information at all on what's coming in update 6, but then no other class has any information on what's coming except for Wardens and the two creep classes. ZC could be a bit more communicative, sure, but then so could every dev who's not Orion, and might I remind you all that behavior like this is precisely what drove him away in the first place. Be patient, and stop acting like the sky is falling. Every single class in this game has been as bad off as we are now at some time or other, and some have had it way worse. Just to name a few: Minstrels trying to solo after Moria launch. Hunters after the weapon nerf. LMs for a huge amount of time during which their debuffs were utter ####. Champs and burgs during DG. Just sit tight and wait for our time in the sun, because it will come. Or just continue to spout mostly unwarranted hyperbole, I suppose there's not much anyone can do about it.

Wow you guys are ranting long articles about a point that is so simple. The RK's are currently below the bar in terms of classes right now. They play fine, but do not play as well as the other classes. Their dps is outdone by the hunter, and a raid will take a mini's healing over an RK any day of the week. I know RK's in their own right are fine right now and that many of you are easily accepted in a raid. But if you compare them to the other classes they suck serious @$$ and need a buff BADLY.

DPS wise, many of you seem to think that if your pulling aggro off the tank that your doing awesome dps. Unfortunately that is not correct, its about numbers, not aggro, and the hunter and champ are hitting significantly higher than us ever since the update. Seriously my epic conclusion is near useless now, doing the same if not less damage than my shocking words, and only critting 10% of the time. Plus, I'm wearing a fully critical set of lvl 45 armor and jewelry, and a teal runestone, so its not my gear. Hell, its called EPIC CONCLUSION, it should be doing 5k damage on normal hits and around 20k on critical hits, and it should be critting 60% of the time not 10%. If something's called EPIC CONCLUSION it should be epicly concluding (1-shotting) even the strongest of enemies (Like guardians) on critical hits.

Healing wise, many of you seem to think that if you can heal most raids then our healing is fine. Sorry, mintrel healing is WAY better than ours, and they keep raids up way better than us. Even when we are fully traited, they can instant heal for 1k morale and then just spam 600 morale pips and 800 pips....no one ever dies. RK healing is WAY inferior to the mini atm. And I am an experienced healer who's healed in many MANY raids. (37 so far). Also, RK's need a better way to heal AND dps during solo, cause right now they are getting whooped by mini's in solo also, since mini's can dps AND heals at the same time.

Your point is that the Rune-Keeper can do its roles fine, good dps and good healing, and you are 100% correct.
My point is that despite the RK's ability to perform its roles fine, this ability is nothing compared to the ability of other classes. Hunter outshines our dps and mini outshines our healing. This is what needs to be fixed: we need to be made just as powerful as the other classes at what we do, and just as good at soloing.

I don't know what to say. EC should be doing 20k crits at lvl45? lol

Originally Posted by Nathandir

DPS wise, many of you seem to think that if your pulling aggro off the tank that your doing awesome dps. Unfortunately that is not correct, its about numbers, not aggro, and the hunter and champ are hitting significantly higher than us ever since the update. Seriously my epic conclusion is near useless now, doing the same if not less damage than my shocking words, and only critting 10% of the time. Plus, I'm wearing a fully critical set of lvl 45 armor and jewelry, and a teal runestone, so its not my gear. Hell, its called EPIC CONCLUSION, it should be doing 5k damage on normal hits and around 20k on critical hits, and it should be critting 60% of the time not 10%. If something's called EPIC CONCLUSION it should be epicly concluding (1-shotting) even the strongest of enemies (Like guardians) on critical hits.

If this is what you want, then you will never be satisfied. They aren't going to make the skill into some epic one-shot-kills-all kind of a skill. As for why EC sucks at your level: It's because it sucks at your level. It sucks less later. Mine crits at least 60% of the time, if not more. Don't try to make judgments about a class you haven't taken to the level cap, it just doesn't work.

One of the big issues with a Rune-keeper as I see it, is the survivability more than anything else.

Let me demonstrate this with a highly elaborate equation:


0.0% block, 0.1% parry and 0.1% evade + (light armour)/physical mitigation = failure * 2


Well sure, you can increase your parry/evade through jewellery and legendary relics, and buff your vitality by adding specific gear, but then your outgoing healing and tactical mastery be such a joke that even Gandalf will laugh at you.

3018, Oct 20th - a secret location in Middle-Earth

Barnon: We will storm the castle tonight at dawn, I want all men and women the like to join forces with us!

Carinthir: I have unleashed a power of magical proportions through these stones I found on the ground, I shall aid you!

Barnon: Great, are you able to inspire our fellows with encouraging words to keep their morale at a high?

Carinthir: Uhm, not really...why do you ask?

Barnon: Look at that little hobbit over there, her lute sounds soothing, I can feel my heart bolster with courage already!

Carinthir: B..b...but Sir, I can summon a large stone from thin air, and it will give you increased vigor just standing close to it.

Barnon: It is decided, the hobbit shall join us against the forces and she will keep us safe.

Carinthir: Sir, I can summon storms from clear sky. I can call upon secret fire to burn my enemies. I can even shoot lightning bolts out of my a...

Barnon: Oh really? Show me then, unleash your fury upon me and I shall grant you passage to join our raid.

Carinthir: You ready? Uuhm..pftt...pewhp...bzzt...pw eet...plaff....phizz..

Barnon: ...........

Carinthir: Sir, I tried my best! I swear that I must have hit you ten times with tiny sparks...and I even tried unleashing the supreme wrath of fiiiiire on you! Oh wait, my stone is frosty cold.

Barnon: Oh look, there is a hunter from the Lindon Forest, he looks mighty agile!

Carinthir: Stupid elves...pointy ears...bows....*mumble*

Barnon: I see that you are not very efficient in your attacks either, now prepare yourself for a defensive stance - I shall test your stamina.

Carinthir: Yes sir! I am at the ready, come at me with everything you have! I can deal with it, I was born ready!

Barnon: *swoosh* *swish*

Carinthir: Uuughh...aaagh...b....but...Si r.....you....you....wounded me...badly...I am....I am....dying!

Barnon: There there, the minstrel will hold our spirits high, and the hunter shall keep our enemies at bay with his deadly attacks. Your services are of no need. Leave me be and die in peace while I go prepare for a raid on the castle.

Originally Posted by Cupcakes123

This concept of scoring large hits on creeps is not unique to the RK. I have seen hunters kill creeps with just a Burn hot HS while burgs grey bar and kill creeps in under 5 seconds. Let's not forget mini and champ's insane damage and survivability. LMs, when played right, can take on overwhelming amount of creeps with their aoe. Guards and captains can hold their own as well. The only freep class that could use a buff is wardens.

The fact is, this is an issue that should be dealt from creep buffs not freep nerfs. Creeps have neither the morale or mitigations to match freep DPS which is what needs to be fixed. Nerfing freep damage will only result in PVE being impossible. Your argument has little to do with the purpose of this thread.

Someone quote me, I quote back, this thread is made of the freep arrogance *leaving thread now*

Originally Posted by Nathandir

This thread has 666 views. If you post here prepare yourself for the eternal flames of HELL!!

NEW Legandary Trait - I want it.

OK, Fix Healing Bug, Healing Stone droping thru floors, Ability to Heal and use fire on the move (at least a little bit if the game is going towards more mobile play). Better Bubbles for DPS & Healing and a healing skill for spike damage.

These are not wild requests, they won't make the class OP, they just add a bit of fluidity to play and some survivabilty.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Can you make a numeric list of the problems? Since its a multitude can you limit it to 20 please. Im just curious have a 75 rk havent healed much after dragioch bugged several times but I had the tank hot'd up....

Please elaborate on the problems as well, in order and I will consider joining your blackout.

1) The aforementioned "Warleader" bug. No exact cause has been established yet, but research on the original WL bug reveals it has something to do with applying 2 separate auras from 2 separate toons at the same time. This is why it affects Captains, RK's, Hunters, and Warleaders. It has also been reported to affect Weavers and Minstrels, but I haven't found anything about them in a few months. I think Weavers and Minstrels DO have an aura-effect skill, so I wouldn't be surprised. (They do, right?)

2) RK's are clearly the squishiest class in the game. How is this? Well, it would seem natural to compare RK's to LM's and Minstrels, considering we 3 are the light-armor classes. Minstrels can use self-heals while DPS'ing, and can equip a shield. LM's have an abundant supply of CC, and they can equip an off-hand weapon. (Don't even start with the whole "But RK's make up for it with a chisel/satchel/stones being a 2H weapon!" No. Off-hand weapons/shields provide a substantially higher benefit than RK chisels.) RK's supposedly can "survive" by kiting, snaring, and by doing high enough DPS to kill targets before they kill the RK. However, RK dps isn't high enough for this...not even close. And as to kiting/snaring, too many targets are either immune to CC, or can remove CC effects faster than RK's can re-apply them. Many targets are ranged, so kiting won't work with them. And many targets can stun/snare the RK, effectively negating any speed bonuses. One of the biggest problems is the way Crit resistance is handled. RK's simply have none, so in anything bigger than a trash fight, almost every hit an RK takes is a crit or devastate. The only real defense we have is mitigation, which is capped at 40% (and because of diminishing returns, requires a HUGE tactical output sacrifice to get to 40%).

3) RK healing is... hmm... disjointed, at best. RK's are supposed to be a HoT healing class, rather than a reactive insta-heal class. This isn't a problem, except that we need at least some kind of single-target emergency reactive heal to accommodate for the big spike damage that has characterized Rise of Isengard. We have a group reaction heal: Essay of Exaltation. Pretty good for saving a group at the last minute, but perfectly balanced so that it is only used when needed. But we need a single-target version of that. Epic for the Ages is supposed to be that skill, but the induction is too long for it to be useful in any real emergency.

4) RK DPS is... Hmm... somewhat inadequate. Ideally, RK's should be able to reach rough DPS parity with Champions, Hunters (and I guess Burglars). But we don't. At my best (very well equipped), I can dish out about 1700 DPS on a single target, unbuffed, without any extraordinary mitigation on the part of the target. Other classes that I've spoken to would be disappointed with that number. I recall an occasion on a 50-second turtle run, where I was peaking at about 1500 DPS, and several other people were parsing. One well-equipped and skilled burg was pumping out 1800 DPS, and HE WAS DISAPPOINTED! I mean, seriously. 1500 DPS is pretty good-to-excellent DPS for a RK, but a Burglar is disappointed with 1800 DPS. These numbers are far enough apart to warrant at least a second look at our DPS situation. I don't really count big one-shot hits as good evidence of "DPS ability," rather damage over a period of time. But RK's don't really pull their weight in either measure.

5) RK DPS is also somewhat disjointed. We have 2 main DPS lines: Fire and Lightning. As originally intended, lightning is for quick combat with big one-shot hits where the RK can DPS and maneuver at the same time. The trade-off is high power consumption and high threat generation. Fire is intended to be the power-sipping, low-threat line that depends on more frequent DoT ticks rather than big one-shot hits, and is the higher DPS of the 2 lines, at the sacrifice of having to stand still and risk having inductions interrupted. However, Fire and Lightning have been changed so much from the original design that they don't really fit their roles anymore. Lightning doesn't crit for as big as it used to, and now has a skill that reduces power consumption. Meanwhile, 2 Fire DoT's have been removed, and one was replaced with a one-shot damage skill (Essence of Flame). The other was eliminated entirely, replaced with an AOE version of an existing DoT (Scathing Mockery/Writ of Fire). The differences between the 2 lines are blurring, confounding an already-less-than-good-but-not-quite-bad-yet DPS situation.

6) My last note is less of the class itself, and more of the developer. I know that Zombie Columbus has good reasons, but the bottom line is that, regardless of the reasons, we get very little interaction with our developer. What little interaction we DO get is more "This is how it's going to be" rather than "How do you guys feel it should be?" On one occasion, he is paraphrased as saying that early beta-tests showed that people didn't want Epic for the Ages to be changed. He never said who tested it, and I haven't seen ANY posts on the RK forums from anyone claiming to have tested the change, nor even from anyone who has advocated for keeping EftA as-is. Silence, coupled with dubious-at-best claims of testing, results in most RK's that I've talked to not having much faith in Zombie Columbus. This lack of faith has gone as far as requesting that another developer, Orion, take over the class (something I am vehemently against, for reasons I won't go into here).

Most of the frequent-flyers on the RK forums have seen my posts telling people NOT to play a RK. I stand by it, for the reasons stated above. RK's are an advanced class. They are difficult to master, and the issues above make it much harder.

Edit: RK's are no longer an "advanced" class. We've been demoted to "moderate." This wasn't always the case.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

1) The aforementioned "Warleader" bug. No exact cause has been established yet, but research on the original WL bug reveals it has something to do with applying 2 separate auras from 2 separate toons at the same time. This is why it affects Captains, RK's, Hunters, and Warleaders. It has also been reported to affect Weavers and Minstrels, but I haven't found anything about them in a few months. I think Weavers and Minstrels DO have an aura-effect skill, so I wouldn't be surprised. (They do, right?)

2) RK's are clearly the squishiest class in the game. How is this? Well, it would seem natural to compare RK's to LM's and Minstrels, considering we 3 are the light-armor classes. Minstrels can use self-heals while DPS'ing, and can equip a shield. LM's have an abundant supply of CC, and they can equip an off-hand weapon. (Don't even start with the whole "But RK's make up for it with a chisel/satchel/stones being a 2H weapon!" No. Off-hand weapons/shields provide a substantially higher benefit than RK chisels.) RK's supposedly can "survive" by kiting, snaring, and by doing high enough DPS to kill targets before they kill the RK. However, RK dps isn't high enough for this...not even close. And as to kiting/snaring, too many targets are either immune to CC, or can remove CC effects faster than RK's can re-apply them. Many targets are ranged, so kiting won't work with them. And many targets can stun/snare the RK, effectively negating any speed bonuses. One of the biggest problems is the way Crit resistance is handled. RK's simply have none, so in anything bigger than a trash fight, almost every hit an RK takes is a crit or devastate. The only real defense we have is mitigation, which is capped at 40% (and because of diminishing returns, requires a HUGE tactical output sacrifice to get to 40%).

3) RK healing is... hmm... disjointed, at best. RK's are supposed to be a HoT healing class, rather than a reactive insta-heal class. This isn't a problem, except that we need at least some kind of single-target emergency reactive heal to accommodate for the big spike damage that has characterized Rise of Isengard. We have a group reaction heal: Essay of Exaltation. Pretty good for saving a group at the last minute, but perfectly balanced so that it is only used when needed. But we need a single-target version of that. Epic for the Ages is supposed to be that skill, but the induction is too long for it to be useful in any real emergency.

4) RK DPS is... Hmm... somewhat inadequate. Ideally, RK's should be able to reach rough DPS parity with Champions, Hunters (and I guess Burglars). But we don't. At my best (very well equipped), I can dish out about 1700 DPS on a single target, unbuffed, without any extraordinary mitigation on the part of the target. Other classes that I've spoken to would be disappointed with that number. I recall an occasion on a 50-second turtle run, where I was peaking at about 1500 DPS, and several other people were parsing. One well-equipped and skilled burg was pumping out 1800 DPS, and HE WAS DISAPPOINTED! I mean, seriously. 1500 DPS is pretty good-to-excellent DPS for a RK, but a Burglar is disappointed with 1800 DPS. These numbers are far enough apart to warrant at least a second look at our DPS situation. I don't really count big one-shot hits as good evidence of "DPS ability," rather damage over a period of time. But RK's don't really pull their weight in either measure.

5) RK DPS is also somewhat disjointed. We have 2 main DPS lines: Fire and Lightning. As originally intended, lightning is for quick combat with big one-shot hits where the RK can DPS and maneuver at the same time. The trade-off is high power consumption and high threat generation. Fire is intended to be the power-sipping, low-threat line that depends on more frequent DoT ticks rather than big one-shot hits, and is the higher DPS of the 2 lines, at the sacrifice of having to stand still and risk having inductions interrupted. However, Fire and Lightning have been changed so much from the original design that they don't really fit their roles anymore. Lightning doesn't crit for as big as it used to, and now has a skill that reduces power consumption. Meanwhile, 2 Fire DoT's have been removed, and one was replaced with a one-shot damage skill (Essence of Flame). The other was eliminated entirely, replaced with an AOE version of an existing DoT (Scathing Mockery/Writ of Fire). The differences between the 2 lines are blurring, confounding an already-less-than-good-but-not-quite-bad-yet DPS situation.

6) My last note is less of the class itself, and more of the developer. I know that Zombie Columbus has good reasons, but the bottom line is that, regardless of the reasons, we get very little interaction with our developer. What little interaction we DO get is more "This is how it's going to be" rather than "How do you guys feel it should be?" On one occasion, he is paraphrased as saying that early beta-tests showed that people didn't want Epic for the Ages to be changed. He never said who tested it, and I haven't seen ANY posts on the RK forums from anyone claiming to have tested the change, nor even from anyone who has advocated for keeping EftA as-is. Silence, coupled with dubious-at-best claims of testing, results in most RK's that I've talked to not having much faith in Zombie Columbus. This lack of faith has gone as far as requesting that another developer, Orion, take over the class (something I am vehemently against, for reasons I won't go into here).

Most of the frequent-flyers on the RK forums have seen my posts telling people NOT to play a RK. I stand by it, for the reasons stated above. RK's are an advanced class. They are difficult to master, and the issues above make it much harder.

I’m not going to bullet my responses to yours as I would be repeating myself from multiple threads over the last year (give or take). Couple of things in reply though because you took the time to reply to me in a reasonable fashion:

1. Rk’s are squishy and need a boost. I wont argue this other then to say the scale is important. It wasn’t until I got to mirkwood until I really had to kite. Now I understand getting one shotted in a raid sucks, been there done that but I also cant see an RK running around the tower pulling 3 uruk’s and spamming ceasesless without moving. We aren’t in bree any more, you make a big pull your survivability should decrease a great deal as a light armor class. Buff mitigations, fine but lets not have mini wardens out there either.

2. DPS Is fine, really remember 7-8 months ago the joke that was the fire line? If you weren’t running lightening you were the exception. We now have viable dps lines in fire and lightening and each one does spectacular DPS. Im sorry but I cant see how this can be argued, even in comparative to a 1500 agility hunter and his heatseeker, we really are doing excellent damage out there.

3. RK’s need a spike heal and they need some buffs in the healing line. This I cant argue and I think EFTA is the answer as it should be a massive spike heal for 5k+ morale, more if you slot the trait. Id like to see self motivation be added to the benediction of peace line bonus. 5 slots for benedictions = self motivation effects the fellowship. Im on board for giving the RK a group power heal to add to its utility. That should greatly enhance RK desirability for raids.

4. ZC: little interaction perhaps but I defer you to item 2. He redid the fire line and he did an exceptional job with it. Considering where it was and where it is now I think he earned a little bit longer of a leash here, although I concede a post or three from time to time would go a long way.

Conclusion: RK’s aren’t in a bad place at all IMHO. Im simply not seeing a great disparity in comparison to other toons and the mini thing…… We all know mini’s are overpowered now so these silly comparatives to them is a pipe dream IMHO.

Originally Posted by lutemaster

One of the big issues with a Rune-keeper as I see it, is the survivability more than anything else.

Let me demonstrate this with a highly elaborate equation:


0.0% block, 0.1% parry and 0.1% evade + (light armour)/physical mitigation = failure * 2


Well sure, you can increase your parry/evade through jewellery and legendary relics, and buff your vitality by adding specific gear, but then your outgoing healing and tactical mastery be such a joke that even Gandalf will laugh at you.

3018, Oct 20th - a secret location in Middle-Earth

Barnon: We will storm the castle tonight at dawn, I want all men and women the like to join forces with us!

Carinthir: I have unleashed a power of magical proportions through these stones I found on the ground, I shall aid you!

Barnon: Great, are you able to inspire our fellows with encouraging words to keep their morale at a high?

Carinthir: Uhm, not really...why do you ask?

Barnon: Look at that little hobbit over there, her lute sounds soothing, I can feel my heart bolster with courage already!

Carinthir: B..b...but Sir, I can summon a large stone from thin air, and it will give you increased vigor just standing close to it.

Barnon: It is decided, the hobbit shall join us against the forces and she will keep us safe.

Carinthir: Sir, I can summon storms from clear sky. I can call upon secret fire to burn my enemies. I can even shoot lightning bolts out of my a...

Barnon: Oh really? Show me then, unleash your fury upon me and I shall grant you passage to join our raid.

Carinthir: You ready? Uuhm..pftt...pewhp...bzzt...pw eet...plaff....phizz..

Barnon: ...........

Carinthir: Sir, I tried my best! I swear that I must have hit you ten times with tiny sparks...and I even tried unleashing the supreme wrath of fiiiiire on you! Oh wait, my stone is frosty cold.

Barnon: Oh look, there is a hunter from the Lindon Forest, he looks mighty agile!

Carinthir: Stupid elves...pointy ears...bows....*mumble*

Barnon: I see that you are not very efficient in your attacks either, now prepare yourself for a defensive stance - I shall test your stamina.

Carinthir: Yes sir! I am at the ready, come at me with everything you have! I can deal with it, I was born ready!

Barnon: *swoosh* *swish*

Carinthir: Uuughh...aaagh...b....but...Si r.....you....you....wounded me...badly...I am....I am....dying!

Barnon: There there, the minstrel will hold our spirits high, and the hunter shall keep our enemies at bay with his deadly attacks. Your services are of no need. Leave me be and die in peace while I go prepare for a raid on the castle.

Agreed +rep

Originally Posted by Nathandir

Wow you guys are ranting long articles about a point that is so simple. The RK's are currently below the bar in terms of classes right now. They play fine, but do not play as well as the other classes. Their dps is outdone by the hunter, and a raid will take a mini's healing over an RK any day of the week. I know RK's in their own right are fine right now and that many of you are easily accepted in a raid. But if you compare them to the other classes they suck serious @$$ and need a buff BADLY.

DPS wise, many of you seem to think that if your pulling aggro off the tank that your doing awesome dps. Unfortunately that is not correct, its about numbers, not aggro, and the hunter and champ are hitting significantly higher than us ever since the update. Seriously my epic conclusion is near useless now, doing the same if not less damage than my shocking words, and only critting 10% of the time. Plus, I'm wearing a fully critical set of lvl 45 armor and jewelry, and a teal runestone, so its not my gear. Hell, its called EPIC CONCLUSION, it should be doing 5k damage on normal hits and around 20k on critical hits, and it should be critting 60% of the time not 10%. If something's called EPIC CONCLUSION it should be epicly concluding (1-shotting) even the strongest of enemies (Like guardians) on critical hits.

Healing wise, many of you seem to think that if you can heal most raids then our healing is fine. Sorry, mintrel healing is WAY better than ours, and they keep raids up way better than us. Even when we are fully traited, they can instant heal for 1k morale and then just spam 600 morale pips and 800 pips....no one ever dies. RK healing is WAY inferior to the mini atm. And I am an experienced healer who's healed in many MANY raids. (37 so far). Also, RK's need a better way to heal AND dps during solo, cause right now they are getting whooped by mini's in solo also, since mini's can dps AND heals at the same time.

Your point is that the Rune-Keeper can do its roles fine, good dps and good healing, and you are 100% correct.
My point is that despite the RK's ability to perform its roles fine, this ability is nothing compared to the ability of other classes. Hunter outshines our dps and mini outshines our healing. This is what needs to be fixed: we need to be made just as powerful as the other classes at what we do, and just as good at soloing.

Do you have more than one RK? Because if you don't, then you have no idea what the class is capable of at end game. Wanting 20K crits at level 45? Ridiculous. This isn't WOW.