Thread: New Neighbourhoods or dismissing "abandoned" houses...

Originally Posted by NickStern

Yes I have compromised 1 year before any action is much better then 6 weeks the way it was at first.

Let's just put it this way: the distance between 6 weeks and a year is far smaller than the distance between "forever" and 2 years .

The basic point stands: yes, make sure that current players have plenty of houses to choose from. Just don't evict more players than is required in order to achieve that. If a 2 year cutoff opens up 5,000 or more houses on every server immediately, with hundreds more coming open every single month thereafter, I doubt people would have any problems at all finding a suitable house. Not on Brandywine, and not on any other server.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Khafar

Let's just put it this way: the distance between 6 weeks and a year is far smaller than the distance between "forever" and 2 years .

The basic point stands: yes, make sure that current players have plenty of houses to choose from. Just don't evict more players than is required in order to achieve that. If a 2 year cutoff opens up 5,000 or more houses on every server immediately, with hundreds more coming open every single month thereafter, I doubt people would have any problems at all finding a suitable house. Not on Brandywine, and not on any other server.

Khafar

Can agree on that but unfortunetly the problem is getting Turbine to stop sitting on its collective hands due to some misplaced bleeding heart liberalism to not want to take things away.
If they took some action say start with non migrated then a 2 year cut off to see if that is indeed enough to free up houseing for all current paying playing members then I say Good Place to start. If it proves to be adequate then by all means do not go further.
Unfortunetly Unless and Until Turbine Listens and does something we won't know for sure what is enough.
I just hope they do something soon maybe the next Update if not sooner.


JUST PLEASE DO SOMETHING TURBINE to free up Houses for your current paying playing members!!

Originally Posted by Khafar

Let's just put it this way: the distance between 6 weeks and a year is far smaller than the distance between "forever" and 2 years .

The basic point stands: yes, make sure that current players have plenty of houses to choose from. Just don't evict more players than is required in order to achieve that. If a 2 year cutoff opens up 5,000 or more houses on every server immediately, with hundreds more coming open every single month thereafter, I doubt people would have any problems at all finding a suitable house. Not on Brandywine, and not on any other server.

Khafar

Oh and Plus Rep for Understanding the Need and a clean fun debate over implementation and the semantics of it.

I'm sure there will be a great answer as to why this can't work in this game, however why not instanced housing like Everquest II? You click on your house and you enter it. You enter an instance of your house, be it Kin or personal. You add permissions and a list comes up with the players that they have permissions to visit. Click on the name, visit that instance of that house.

This whole thing with multiple abandoned neighborhoods is rather unpleasant and awkward to say the very least. I would also love to see them add apartments to the major towns of the game. Put them in the Inn and make them smaller in size to represent a boarding house of sorts. It was good enough for Gandalf and it's darn well good enough for me.

I get depressed when I visit the housing areas of the game. I feel like I'm visiting the ruins or worse Moria. I can only imagine what this zone must have looked like in 2007 when it was bustling with new players proud of their homes, but alas, it looks like that cable series "Life without people".

Originally Posted by Zarador

I'm sure there will be a great answer as to why this can't work in this game, however why not instanced housing like Everquest II?

Virtual apartments are certainly feasible - they even had those in their first game, Asheron's Call. Personally, I always liked having my own yard, my own house exterior that I could decorate. My mog house in FFXI was convenient, and every single player could have one - no matter how many players there were. But for me, it was just a room to store stuff in. A room with an annoying moogle in it .

I can only imagine what this zone must have looked like in 2007 when it was bustling with new players proud of their homes, but alas, it looks like that cable series "Life without people".

Actually, it was always like that. No, when you moused over a door you didn't see that it was abandoned, but the neighborhoods were never particularly "lively". That's due to the fact that there are only 26 individual houses per neighborhood, and they're spread out in a fairly large area. On average back then, maybe 3-4 people who had a house in your neighborhood would be logged in when you were if you played during peak hours. If you were lucky, 1 of those might be in the neighborhood when you were (because people spend the vast majority of their time elsewhere). Yet even then, that other player might be inside their house, or outside of your sight lines and you'd never see them.

I've seen a grand total of maybe half a dozen players in my neighborhood - in 4 years. If they'd been full up with active players that whole time, maybe it would have been a full dozen. Still not enough to matter. I'm OK with it though, because the house is really for me - a place to call my own, to decorate the way I like.

AC actually had both houses sort of like what we have now (only out on the landscape, a really, really bad idea for this game)... and virtual apartments too. Maybe Turbine will decide that sort of solution could work here as well, and that would probably cause many people currently in houses to decide to opt for the convenience of the apartment (opening up homes in some of the full neighborhoods).

Khafar

Originally Posted by Khafar

Virtual apartments are certainly feasible - they even had those in their first game, Asheron's Call. Personally, I always liked having my own yard, my own house exterior that I could decorate. My mog house in FFXI was convenient, and every single player could have one - no matter how many players there were. But for me, it was just a room to store stuff in. A room with an annoying moogle in it .

Khafar

Well, we had great court yards in the larger housing with patios and the lot. It was also free form and quite enjoyable to decorate. People would do creative things like stack furniture to create lofts and much more. Housing was a rather enjoyable side game/hobby. I really miss that.

Housing here feels stagnant and sterile. Walking through neighborhoods with for sale signs and would be foreclosures don't help much either. I would far rather see housing moved to the towns or at least added to towns.

As regards the issue of how long one can or should be able to pre-pay house fees, there is a suggestion I've made before and will repeat in brief here for those new to the debate...

Important part: Make the period covered by each period selectable by the player, with the choices being weekly (as it is now), monthly, quarterly, or annual.

Not as important part: Discount the payments for longer periods from a strict extension of the weekly value (that is, if you make annual payments, each payment would be a good deal less than 52*weekly amount).

If someone wants to pre-pay for 6 years...let them. Since that is longer than the license to use the LoTRO material will last, even with the extension that is in the license, it amounts to "forever"...and that's what I would do.

If such a long-term payment scheme were in place, "foreclosure" would be a much less contentious issue.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

As regards the issue of how long one can or should be able to pre-pay house fees, there is a suggestion I've made before and will repeat in brief here for those new to the debate...

Important part: Make the period covered by each period selectable by the player, with the choices being weekly (as it is now), monthly, quarterly, or annual.

Not as important part: Discount the payments for longer periods from a strict extension of the weekly value (that is, if you make annual payments, each payment would be a good deal less than 52*weekly amount).

If someone wants to pre-pay for 6 years...let them. Since that is longer than the license to use the LoTRO material will last, even with the extension that is in the license, it amounts to "forever"...and that's what I would do.

If such a long-term payment scheme were in place, "foreclosure" would be a much less contentious issue.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Well clearly allowing someone to Pre Pay for 6 years or forever as you put it is a silly Idea as it creates the same problem we currently have houses that have a owner name attached to them put may never play the game again.
There would need to be some sort of Tie in to Logins also so that if they do not log in in a set time period they would still lose the house to escrow and a token flor a free one on return. Iwould say the 2 year cut off is reasonable in that instance.

The real issue is TURBINE Must do something better sonner then later to improve the current system and give the current playing Paying members access to houses it is a part of the game we were promised and pay for.

PS. Hey Turbine How about an answer from your community leaders or Devs.....Or is the community to unimportant for you to speak to?

I realize this is a long discussed and long dying topic, but perhaps the group of us can gather together to keep a thread on the top of suggestions for weeks and generate some attention. I too am a Bradywiner who wants a house, and I'm not afraid to be vocal about it, but it will take many of us to get something done.

Unfortunetly it is not a dead topic If Turbine would respond and give some idea as to what is will be or is planned to be done
then Maybe the topic could be at least given a rest. It seems However we are below notice of Turbine and the powers That Be

there are many Threads on the topic of housing if we could gather all people in one place to post thier conserns and thoughts perhaps Turbine would Take a passing notice and maybe at least decide to speak to Us....

LOL Well I can dream.................

Was thinking about it and went and found a bunch of recent threads about housing.....
Not all just about the Lack of Houses Many with some good Ideas how to Improve Housing......
Was thinking If all of us in various threads Keep Commenting Supporting Each Others Threads
keep them on the first Page...Make it clear to Turbime and The Powers that be that there is much
Interest and Support For a better Housing system........................ .....
Maybe Just Maybe they will give us some answers on the General direction and thoughts behind
Housing and what they feel they can do to Improve the Situation......

Come One Come All Show Your Support Lets Get Turbines ATTENTION.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...Unique-Housing
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...he-game-please.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...the-Homesteads
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...s-more-purpose
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...rsonal-and-Kin
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?445438-Housing
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ed-quot-houses...

In No particular order But Just as I found them..........
Lets all support Each Other on The Housing Issues and See what Turbine Has to Say

/signed, for what it's worth.

If you're logged out for more than a year, poof goes your house. Put the decorations in permanent escrow so if they do decide to return then they can get them back.

In the rare case of military deployment preventing you from returning within a year, contact Turbine and they can make an exception for you. Send them a scan of your deployment papers or something, I dunno.

Originally Posted by NickStern

Was thinking about it and went and found a bunch of recent threads about housing.....
Not all just about the Lack of Houses Many with some good Ideas how to Improve Housing......
Was thinking If all of us in various threads Keep Commenting Supporting Each Others Threads
keep them on the first Page...Make it clear to Turbime and The Powers that be that there is much
Interest and Support For a better Housing system........................ .....
Maybe Just Maybe they will give us some answers on the General direction and thoughts behind
Housing and what they feel they can do to Improve the Situation......

Come One Come All Show Your Support Lets Get Turbines ATTENTION.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...Unique-Housing
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...he-game-please.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...the-Homesteads
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...s-more-purpose
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...rsonal-and-Kin
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?445438-Housing
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ed-quot-houses...

In No particular order But Just as I found them..........
Lets all support Each Other on The Housing Issues and See what Turbine Has to Say

I like the idea. I think what may be more effective though (if we can manage) would be to gather our masses and set a day where we can all /sign a suggestion. Then, several of us can keep it on the surface for several days.

The suggestion can be one that combines many of the best ideas into one thread. We can pm many of the people that have signed previous suggestions and try to have one big hurrah on a designated date.

It would require some work on our parts, but I'm willing to put in my part, if others are willing to join me. In my opinion, this would likely be our best chance. I'm hoping that some of the old veterans that generally ignore such threads would see the fast amassing buzz and check it out.

Honestly, if I could log in and release my house without having to pay the back rent y'all could have it. I don't see myself wanting to return to this game any time soon. But I don't want to have to pay "back rent" on a few pixels I don't want anymore.

Because in EQ2, I can have 20 homes per character (by however many extra character slots I want to purchase) ... and with many more options for decor and anything else the frustrated little decorator inside me decides she wants to do.

I think trophies are done much better in this game, but with very limited space and having to pick and choose what might go where and have a deluxe house full of very empty space, it's honestly not worth it to me anymore.

This is a topic that keeps coming back up. There are simply too many abandoned houses. Easily 80% or more of all the houses in all the neighbourhoods I've ever visited have been abandoned.

It's PAST time they put the interests of PLAYING customers ahead of those that stopped playing months or years ago.


We must accept that people do not want to lose the stuff in their house, should it become impossible for them to manage the upkeep. There are those that are part of military service, for example (though I'm pretty sure the military can still use computers or could get a friend or kinmate to pay upkeep for them), who might be away from the game for extended periods.

Thus, Escrow must be changed so that items held there will be held there indefinitely. This is no different to the server than keeping them in the house, after all.

After that, ALL houses that are abandoned for three months will be put back on the market. Three months is PLENTY of time. If you can't manage it in that time, you lose nothing but the house. You should be given a token to allow you to purchase a house of the same type.
Thus, if I defaulted on my "rent," in three months I would lose my house and everything would go into escrow where it would remain forever. In addition, I would receive a house token I could exchange if I return to the game. No one loses.

There would be no need for any more neighborhoods. This needs to be done ASAP.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

This is a topic that keeps coming back up. There are simply too many abandoned houses. Easily 80% or more of all the houses in all the neighbourhoods I've ever visited have been abandoned.

Just one knit to pick here, if a house was abandoned by a player, it would be on the market for sale.

Originally Posted by Stilgaard

Just one knit to pick here, if a house was abandoned by a player, it would be on the market for sale.

True, poor choice of words on my part. I think you take my meaning, though. A great majority of houses currently in the game are locked due to failure to pay upkeep, and have been locked for a very, very long time.

By the by, you'd be picking "nits" not "knits" (unless you're referring to a sweater :P).

In the rare case of military deployment preventing you from returning within a year, contact Turbine and they can make an exception for you. Send them a scan of your deployment papers or something, I dunno.

It wouldn't even really need to be limited to military personnel. Anyone who cares enough to take the time to tell...heck, even an in-game NPC, that they were going to be away for an extended period of time deserves to keep the house, in my opinion. It's not like this would be many people.

But that's only an idea going forward. What to do with these squatters now?

Infinite escrow (with a capped back-pay) and a token for a free house of the same size would do the trick.

Just sending an in-game mail making sure everyone logged into their homeowner within X amount of time, and then get booting!

Even setting the bar low, like opening up houses where the owner hasn't logged in since January, 2009, would open a TON of houses, I bet. Start at 3 years, and if there's still a problem, reassess. But I don't think there'd be a need. The run on houses has been on the decline since they were launched, I'd wager, without exception. With a sharp drop after the introduction of shared storage.

Originally Posted by Frisco

It wouldn't even really need to be limited to military personnel. Anyone who cares enough to take the time to tell...heck, even an in-game NPC, that they were going to be away for an extended period of time deserves to keep the house, in my opinion. It's not like this would be many people.

But that's only an idea going forward. What to do with these squatters now?

Infinite escrow (with a capped back-pay) and a token for a free house of the same size would do the trick.

Just sending an in-game mail making sure everyone logged into their homeowner within X amount of time, and then get booting!

Even setting the bar low, like opening up houses where the owner hasn't logged in since January, 2009, would open a TON of houses, I bet. Start at 3 years, and if there's still a problem, reassess. But I don't think there'd be a need. The run on houses has been on the decline since they were launched, I'd wager, without exception. With a sharp drop after the introduction of shared storage.

I'm sorry, but the military "excuse" just doesn't hold water with me. Even on assignment, a soldier can usually get access to the internet. In a worst case scenario, where the person is spending all his time in a foxhole with no way to ever connect, he can let someone else pay his upkeep, a kinmate or someone close to him. There are permissions on the house for that purpose.

As I said before (and many times at that), it should be 3 months after the house ran out of upkeep. You would get a token for a free house of the same size, and all your stuff woudl go into escrow, where it would remain until claimed. It's the best solution. It frees up housing and no one loses anything.


They have to start paying attention to the people who might bring them some money NOW rather than those who might someday come back to the game.

It is quite obvious that forced eviction+indefinite/long-term escrow would be the better way for all active players.

However I fail to see why special concessions should be made to people in the military. It is a job choice that naturally carries with it a lot of limitations, but also a lot of benefits. Joining the military is a conscientious choice and one has to accept the consequences of having to go on deployment.

The choice of job and way of life should not serve as a differentiating factor in this totally unrelated issue: customer-business relation. There should not be a special treatment of customer John over customer Bob based on Johns´ choice of employment. Or turning it around: Bob has to go to prison for over a year. If John gets a special treatment, so should Bob. Why? The reasons of Absence of both might be wildly different. But that should not matter for Turbine, because it is not their business to give Bill a higher value based on factors outside of the scope of the business relationship.

So, give the same treatment to all customers. Which either means that everyone has the chance to put housing on hold, not only military employees (which somehow defeats the purpose of the whole measure). Or that everyone is subject to the same limitations.

To avoid complaints, this isnt about or against the Military and soldiers. They serve a valued purpose. But I dont think that anyones´ choice of job should reward special privileges outside of the privileges their chosen occupation entitles them to.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

It frees up housing and no one loses anything.

Someone most definitely loses something...

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

Someone most definitely loses something...

How so?

If I own a house in Breeland and then come back after two years, I'd find my old house had been "reclaimed" by the system and put back on the market. All my belongings would be in escrow and I would have a token to buy a house of the same type as I had before.

I've lost none of my possessions and lost no money on the house. What exactly is anyone losing?

Originally Posted by Tiamo

All my belongings would be in escrow and I would have a token to buy a house of the same type as I had before.

I've lost none of my possessions and lost no money on the house. What exactly is anyone losing?

You have lost your house. Your house is no less yours than all your "belongings," it is no less a possession than your other "possessions." You purchased the house and the location, and the town. That is a specific house, you spent your time in it, you decorated it. You can't just get that same exact house again, unless of course you are lucky, and it is still on the market when you return.

You are not thinking of the sentimental value of the digital belongings, you are just thinking of achievement. You have achieved house, you have house badge!

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

You have lost your house. Your house is no less yours than all your "belongings," it is no less a possession than your other "possessions." You purchased the house and the location, and the town. That is a specific house, you spent your time in it, you decorated it. You can't just get that same exact house again, unless of course you are lucky, and it is still on the market when you return.

You are not thinking of the sentimental value of the digital belongings, you are just thinking of achievement. You have achieved house, you have house badge!

So you buy the identical house in another neighborhood using the free token. If anything is lost, it's the neighbors (assuming you even HAD neighbors and not just another empty house).

Again, I don't see it as a loss of anything.

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

You have lost your house. Your house is no less yours than all your "belongings," it is no less a possession than your other "possessions." You purchased the house and the location, and the town. That is a specific house, you spent your time in it, you decorated it. You can't just get that same exact house again, unless of course you are lucky, and it is still on the market when you return.

You are not thinking of the sentimental value of the digital belongings, you are just thinking of achievement. You have achieved house, you have house badge!

To which there really is only one thing to say..........but it would probably get me banned so let me just say........ROFL instead

Originally Posted by Tiamo

Again, I don't see it as a loss of anything.

That was the point I was making... so don't push your view on others! You do lose your neighbors, your location. I would not want to find "my" house in the hands of someone else. Focus on changing other aspects of the system. I have had my house and my mates have had their houses since day one. We are all together... We will be playing the game til day zero. It has been 5 months since we last played. Do we deserve to lose our houses? Should we lose our houses? I'd rather lose the items inside, as they are mostly replaceable, the house is not.

Originally Posted by NickStern

To which there really is only one thing to say..........but it would probably get me banned so let me just say........

Oh? Really?

They should change the wording when you purchase a house to make that up-front payment a deposit(security deposit, first & last months rent, etc.), instead of a purchase. That way they can reclaim the house when upkeep isn't paid. Only instead of upkeep, call it rent.

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

That was the point I was making... so don't push your view on others! You do lose your neighbors, your location. I would not want to find "my" house in the hands of someone else. Focus on changing other aspects of the system. I have had my house and my mates have had their houses since day one. We are all together... We will be playing the game til day zero. It has been 5 months since we last played. Do we deserve to lose our houses? Should we lose our houses? I'd rather lose the items inside, as they are mostly replaceable, the house is not.



Oh? Really?

But it could be EXACTLY the same house in another neighborhood. MOST houses in most neighborhoods don't HAVE neighbors. The location would be the same.

If you're playing, you're not going to lose your house. This is the whole point. It's the people who ARE NOT playing who would lose the house in favour of those that ARE playing.


It's a simple equation.

Person A owns a house but left the game. He is bringing NO revenue to the game.
Person B cannot get a house because of all the houses tied up by people like person A.
If Person B COULD have that house, he would potentially bring in revenue as he:
- buys furnishings on the T-Store
- buys adventure packs so he can earn new furnishings
- potentially buys other things related to housing.


Person A revenues: 0
Person B revenues: >0

Pretty simple math, really.

Originally Posted by Moejo

They should change the wording when you purchase a house to make that up-front payment a deposit(security deposit, first & last months rent, etc.), instead of a purchase. That way they can reclaim the house when upkeep isn't paid. Only instead of upkeep, call it rent.

Eek, I prefer they just remove upkeep altogether, once you buy, it is yours, maybe just increase the price of housing.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

But it could be EXACTLY the same house in another neighborhood. MOST houses in most neighborhoods don't HAVE neighbors. The location would be the same.

No it specifically wouldn't be the same. You would not be entering the same neighbor hood anymore, your neighbors would be in another neighborhood. In my case, if one of us lost our house this way, and it was snatched up before we got notice, they could not get that house back and would be somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

If you're playing, you're not going to lose your house. This is the whole point. It's the people who ARE NOT playing who would lose the house in favour of those that ARE playing.

Well now change 5 months to 1 year 5 months. Now do I deserve to lose my house? Should I?

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

Well now change 5 months to 1 year 5 months. Now do I deserve to lose my house? Should I?

What I do not get is people who feel entiteled to keep what they do not pay for despite the reality that it is a requierment.
If you have not payed maintenance in 5 months a year or 1.5 years yes you should lose your house.
Your holding on to something you cvant use you can not enter once it is locked you can not access the contents of the containers what good is the house doing for you.
The fact they do not boot means others often can not get houses they want because they are not available.
In my Kin house neighborhood I have found every house locked except 3 due to non payment.
In my personal house neighborhood every house is locked for that reason.
How does this benifit anyone or add to the game experiance.
I want a vital active neighborhood not a slum filled with worthless non paying non playing bums.

TURBINE WAKE UP BOOT THE BUMS OUT.

Originally Posted by NickStern

How does this benifit anyone or add to the game experiance.

It benefits me, my kin, and our friends, when we come back as we always do, and it definitely adds to our game experience. It would greatly take away from our experience to lose said property. You should be able to figure out how.

Oh and by the way, we pay and play, just not 365 days a year.

Worthless, non-paying, non-playing, bums?

That's a violation of the CoC. Relax.


I have my house. I rarely... very rarely... okay almost never play this anymore. Too bad, so sad. Find yourselves a new neighborhood, or even a new server, if you are desperately seeking a home of your own. Better yet, invest in a Kin Hall... 99% of the neighborhoods have at least 1 available Kin Hall.

Originally Posted by Panahasi

Worthless, non-paying, non-playing, bums?

That's a violation of the CoC. Relax.


I have my house. I rarely... very rarely... okay almost never play this anymore. Too bad, so sad. Find yourselves a new neighborhood, or even a new server, if you are desperately seeking a home of your own. Better yet, invest in a Kin Hall... 99% of the neighborhoods have at least 1 available Kin Hall.

See your the type of self entiteled that ruins games for others.
You think you have it you do not use it but I aint going to release it because I do not want someone else to have it.

You and many others like you are the reason that Turbine needs to reverse the stupid policy they implemented of not booting bums out of thier houses for non payment, although at the time they did it for a good reason, but now the kindness they showed is being exploited and abused it has lead to other problems due to thinking like yours.

See what your clearly blind to is the neighborhoods are full of locked houses for non payment they havs spawned all the instances they can..... so finding another neighborhood is not an option. If you Payed you may understand that but I doubt it.

I already have a kin hall every other house is locked due to non payment my Kinnies can not get houses near the kin halll due to people that think like you. So again your suggestion is with out merit.

Changing servers is not an option as older more populated servers have this problem as well and in greater amounts. No Kin should be forced off a server to find houses no one should be forced off a server to find houses to allow self entitled people like you to keep something they do not use. Most Importantly Transfers are on hold so even if as a kin we thought that rediculous suggestion had merit it is not currently possible.

Iyt is well past time Turbine fix the mistake they made through good intentions and realise anyone that has not paid in a year or more for upkeep should be booted from the houses. I fully support permenant escrow so they do not lose anything if they do come back and they should get a token for a free house of the same type, but if they chose to be go\ne so long then they should be the ones to do the leg work to find open housing not current paying playing members.

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

It benefits me, my kin, and our friends, when we come back as we always do, and it definitely adds to our game experience. It would greatly take away from our experience to lose said property. You should be able to figure out how.

Oh and by the way, we pay and play, just not 365 days a year.

Then pay your upkeep, and there's no problem. To answer your question, YES you should lose your house (though you would be able to get another one at no cost).

People who are actually playing the game and using its features should be given consideration before those that are not.

Imagine walking into McDonalds for a Big Mac. The girl at the counter says, "you can't have one, there are none left." You look behind her and see dozens on the rack. She says, "oh, those are reserved for other customers. Sure, they might never come back, but we'll hold them for them forever." You say, "well, what about me? I'm here NOW."

Something needs to be done. For example all the the neighborhoods on Brandywine in the Bree housing are open. There is no more & trying to get a house on this server is nearly impossible. Mainly kin houses are whats left. How fair is it for current players to be SOL on getting a house because so many are locked do to not paying the upkeep.

Quite frankly if you cannot come back after a year of not paying upkeep you should lose your house.

I am not saying I am satisfied that I have a house and no one else can get one. I think if it is true that Turbine cannot support more houses on the current database, then they should upgrade it. There should be enough houses to meet demand. Or make it so that free players cannot have houses. Must be VIP or Premium. If there will be too many premium players, make a new class of subscriber, for people that were subscribed before F2P was launched, and class them with VIPs.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

Then pay your upkeep, and there's no problem.

So now paying for and playing a game has to be an extra chore? That is how it was in the beginning, and we had to make sure one of us logged in to pay upkeep within every 6 week time period. I am glad that was put to rest. I was/am not okay with the upkeep in the first place, but to have to make sure you put time aside to log into the game...

Originally Posted by Tiamo

To answer your question, YES you should lose your house (though you would be able to get another one at no cost).

I disagree wholeheartedly. That would be an almost worthless gesture.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

People who are actually playing the game and using its features should be given consideration before those that are not.

I play the game, I use its features, I was using them before most of the people you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Tiamo

Imagine walking into McDonalds for a Big Mac. The girl at the counter says, "you can't have one, there are none left." You look behind her and see dozens on the rack. She says, "oh, those are reserved for other customers. Sure, they might never come back, but we'll hold them for them forever." You say, "well, what about me? I'm here NOW."

There is your first problem, you seem to like that disgusting establishment. Well I haven't walked in to one of those for about 15 years. Given those circumstances I would not say that. I would accept that I was late to the party. I should have reserved my own before coming in, now I know for next time.

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

I think if it is true that Turbine cannot support more houses on the current database, then they should upgrade it. There should be enough houses to meet demand.

This would require Turbine to spend a considerable amount of additional resources to support an aspect of the game that provides little revenue. I don't see it happening, especially when they're expanding to accommodate a large chunk of people who haven't logged in for years and never will again.

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

So now paying for and playing a game has to be an extra chore? That is how it was in the beginning, and we had to make sure one of us logged in to pay upkeep within every 6 week time period. I am glad that was put to rest. I was/am not okay with the upkeep in the first place, but to have to make sure you put time aside to log into the game...

So, you feel that active customers should be blocked from content in favor of players who cant "put time aside" to log in for 5 minutes every 365 days? That does sound like quite the burden.

No one is asking you to do it once every 6 weeks. I think most would agree that just starting by dropping people who haven't logged in for 2 years would do wonders for the housing communities.

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

I play the game, I use its features, I was using them before most of the people you are talking about.

So, you're saying that since you used them before hand, you are...entitled?

Originally Posted by -LoNgHiLL-

Given those circumstances I would not say that. I would accept that I was late to the party. I should have reserved my own before coming in, now I know for next time.

Given your sense of entitlement, I have a hard time believing this would be your true reaction. And guess what? Some of those people who left their Big Macs behind aren't going to be coming back. They will never give another cent to McDonald's. Should those Big Macs rot while the starving, willing to pay customers go hungry?

2 years is a good compromise. It's not like houses were meant to be a 1-time thing scooped up by founders never to be created again--some servers just reached max # of instances sooner than anticipated. Housing needs an update, clearly, and booting people who haven't logged in in 2 years is a good start. Or open new neighborhoods. But even then, booting people *into* these new neighborhoods would be better--so many instances are ghost towns. I don't know how many years it has been since I saw a soul in mine.

The situation where a group of people would all come back after 2 years simultaneously and be upset about not having houses near each other is not going to be common, whereas they could make many people happy who *currently* play by moving them out.

Originally Posted by NickStern

See your the type of self entiteled that ruins games for others.
You think you have it you do not use it but I aint going to release it because I do not want someone else to have it.

No, that's YOU. You're the one hurling insults at players who have been here FAR longer than you. Cry over spilled milk much? Look in the mirror Mr. Pot.

You and many others like you are the reason that Turbine needs to reverse the stupid policy they implemented of not booting bums out of thier houses for non payment, although at the time they did it for a good reason, but now the kindness they showed is being exploited and abused it has lead to other problems due to thinking like yours.

More biased fallacy spewed by you. You call their policy "stupid" and yet blame me (and "others like" me) for YOUR PROBLEM. YOU are the reason the United States if falling by the wayside right now. YOU are the one feeling "entitled" yet at the same time making demands upon an entity YOU DO NOT control. Your argument is seriously... fatally... flawed.

See what your clearly blind to is the neighborhoods are full of locked houses for non payment they havs spawned all the instances they can..... so finding another neighborhood is not an option. If you Payed you may understand that but I doubt it.

Again, making false accusations and a$$umptions. Quit while you are behind. We have hashed over this very subject FOUR YEARS AGO. Do you think THEY care? Nope. Save your breath and make do with what you have.

I already have a kin hall every other house is locked due to non payment my Kinnies can not get houses near the kin halll due to people that think like you. So again your suggestion is with out merit.

How is it without merit IF YOU HAVE ONE? LOL! Now you're being hypocritical.

Changing servers is not an option as older more populated servers have this problem as well and in greater amounts. No Kin should be forced off a server to find houses no one should be forced off a server to find houses to allow self entitled people like you to keep something they do not use. Most Importantly Transfers are on hold so even if as a kin we thought that rediculous suggestion had merit it is not currently possible.

Transfers are NOT on hold they were renewed last week at least according to a Turbine post.

Iyt is well past time Turbine fix the mistake they made through good intentions and realise anyone that has not paid in a year or more for upkeep should be booted from the houses. I fully support permenant escrow so they do not lose anything if they do come back and they should get a token for a free house of the same type, but if they chose to be go\ne so long then they should be the ones to do the leg work to find open housing not current paying playing members.

You're demanding drastic changes to a housing code which has been neglected (by and large) since its inception. It took THEM over three years to fix housing hooks. Honestly, do you truly believe they'll change the housing escrow code? Good luck with that.

Who cares how long you've been playing?

People are arguing for change, and that's the only way to get it done. Telling them to shut up and take it is childish and totally opposite of what they should be doing if they want to see change, which is sorely needed.