Thread: Lightning T2 Trash

Originally Posted by Southpa

Go ahead and justify shoddy design any way you want...right?

If the design was always perfect then exploits would never exist. Saying it's not an exploit because the design makes it possible is perhaps the weakest argument I've ever read on these forums, and that's saying something. The very term exploit implies that there is a design flaw, one can't exist without the other.

In this particular case dealing with adaptation is the defining characteristic of the trash pulls. Keeping mobs out of combat during a fight to circumvent the primary mechanic is an exploit. I consider it a minor exploit since you are not directly rewarded with loot, but there's no doubt that it's an exploit.

It's bad enough that you exploit and twist your brain into thinking that it's somehow justified, but to try to convince others that it's okay to do it is inexcusable.

Originally Posted by Yosoff

I consider it a minor exploit since you are not directly rewarded with loot, but there's no doubt that it's an exploit.

Yet you've been offered facts, ie the way Turbine has designed skills to work, that completely refutes this.

It's bad enough that you exploit and twist your brain into thinking that it's somehow justified, but to try to convince others that it's okay to do it is inexcusable.

That was pretty rude. :/

That also goes to the person who negative reped me for stating a valid and factually-based opinion.

Originally Posted by Lothirieth

Yet you've been offered facts, ie the way Turbine has designed skills to work, that completely refutes this.

I've seen no facts, only lame attempts at excuses. "I hit the skill and it did what it does" does not constitute a fact of why it's okay to circumvent game mechanics. What else is a skill going to do? It's the the use of skills in a way that bypasses game mechanics and trivializes content that makes it an exploit.

Originally Posted by Lothirieth

That was pretty rude. :/

So was that.

Honestly, I don't know why Turbine allows people to openly post exploits and then proselytize for them on the forums. It's obviously an exploit and anyone using it should get a ban for a few days and anyone spreading it should get a month ban.

On the subject of adaptation:

Are the character skills being used currently working as intended, yes.

Is adaptation currently working as intended in how it responds to them, no.

Will we be tweaking the implementation of adaptation, yes. In update 6 adaptation will not clear until the pull the monster is attached to leaves combat. This will allow you to still open with the CC, however the monster will appropriately gain his immunity and maintain it until the combat is fully resolved.

Is this considered an exploit, I don't personally think so. Given that the skills are not being used in a manner that is obviously contrary to their purpose and they're being used in a way consistent to how they have been before adaptation, the fault lies within the implementation details of adaptation.

Originally Posted by Yosoff

If the design was always perfect then exploits would never exist. Saying it's not an exploit because the design makes it possible is perhaps the weakest argument I've ever read on these forums, and that's saying something. The very term exploit implies that there is a design flaw, one can't exist without the other.

Thanks for the lesson - I really didn't know that.
No, my point (or argument if you prefer) is that if they can't take the time to make sure a simple and straightforward (yet undeniably major) mechanic doesn't work as intended, then you have no right to admonish people for playing it any way it can be played - using skills exactly in their intended purpose.

Originally Posted by Yosoff

In this particular case dealing with adaptation is the defining characteristic of the trash pulls. Keeping mobs out of combat during a fight to circumvent the primary mechanic is an exploit. I consider it a minor exploit since you are not directly rewarded with loot, but there's no doubt that it's an exploit.

Originally Posted by Yosoff

Honestly, I don't know why Turbine allows people to openly post exploits and then proselytize for them on the forums. It's obviously an exploit and anyone using it should get a ban for a few days and anyone spreading it should get a month ban.

So then, we'll all go on vacation together? lol
You make it sound like anyone who would dare do something like this couldn't possibly be capable of approaching the encounters they way a highly gifted and ultra-legit player such as yourself could, right?
Right?
Gimme a break.
We've blown through this trash about 3 or 4 different ways. Some according to plan, some not. Just because I am participating in a thread stating I prefer to put the onus on the dev(s) to make it play as intended if they expect their players to play it as intended doesn't mean that "exploiting" is the only way I can possibly do it.

Originally Posted by Yosoff

It's bad enough that you exploit and twist your brain into thinking that it's somehow justified, but to try to convince others that it's okay to do it is inexcusable.

It's even worse that you get so riled up over it. I know, I know!!
I'm not twisting my brain into anything. It is what it is. I don't have to justify anything to you and I certainly don't care who you judge. It's just words on a screen, bro....

Originally Posted by Yosoff

I've seen no facts, only lame attempts at excuses. "I hit the skill and it did what it does" does not constitute a fact of why it's okay to circumvent game mechanics. What else is a skill going to do? It's the the use of skills in a way that bypasses game mechanics and trivializes content that makes it an exploit.

Pray tell, what facts are you looking for? Perhaps you can start a petition to get all those who have beaten wings T2 to provide video footage of them doing the trash clears according to your sense of what is just and proper? Yes, do that... I'll subscribe.


BTW, thanks for the update JWB.
See Yosoff, I'm not even crying...

Originally Posted by jwbarry

On the subject of adaptation:

Are the character skills being used currently working as intended, yes.

Is adaptation currently working as intended in how it responds to them, no.

Will we be tweaking the implementation of adaptation, yes. In update 6 adaptation will not clear until the pull the monster is attached to leaves combat. This will allow you to still open with the CC, however the monster will appropriately gain his immunity and maintain it until the combat is fully resolved.

Is this considered an exploit, I don't personally think so. Given that the skills are not being used in a manner that is obviously contrary to their purpose and they're being used in a way consistent to how they have been before adaptation, the fault lies within the implementation details of adaptation.

BOOM!

Thank you jwbarry!

Originally Posted by Lutheran

BOOM!

Thank you jwbarry!

Yes thank you JW, now peeps can stop fighting about a game that peeps just want to enjoy and have fun with.

Originally Posted by jwbarry

On the subject of adaptation:

Are the character skills being used currently working as intended, yes.

Is adaptation currently working as intended in how it responds to them, no.

Will we be tweaking the implementation of adaptation, yes. In update 6 adaptation will not clear until the pull the monster is attached to leaves combat. This will allow you to still open with the CC, however the monster will appropriately gain his immunity and maintain it until the combat is fully resolved.

BOOM! Excellent. Can't wait for the "ToO Trash too hard?" thread.

Originally Posted by jwbarry

Is this considered an exploit, I don't personally think so. Given that the skills are not being used in a manner that is obviously contrary to their purpose and they're being used in a way consistent to how they have been before adaptation, the fault lies within the implementation details of adaptation.

Personally I think so. Don't see anything on skill tooltips about removing adaptation. Maybe test these things before releasing a buggy raid? Care to comment on being able to fear Sarumans?

Those of you declaring victory that its not officially an exploit (though still not wai) get ready for some fun in acid trash after update 6.

Originally Posted by Hirion_of_Dale

A Trapper of Foes hunter is in a much better position to keep a Taskmaster locked down than both Loremasters and Burglars, because they have access to both fear, daze, and root. With a bit of speed that is all you need to take out one or more of the other targets before they rejoin the fray. Now the root doesn't stop them from using their two most annoying skills - the summoning of claws and the healing circles - but all in all it still gives you 1½ minute quality time at the start of the fight.

Perhaps you would benefit from the knowledge that LM's have "both" daze, stun, root, and a pet-dependent fear CC available to them as well.

Additionally, Burglars have "both" daze, root, stun, and CJ CC forms available to them.

Roots (unless on unimportant things like Cave Claws) and fears are inefficient. Taskmasters will have auras, corruptions, inductions, puddles, etc. Fearing them risks a broken fear, as we all know that fears make the target run around. Rooting them risks letting them bubble/corruption/aura buff/induct.

You should be burning whatever your groups' DPS allows you to within the Taskmaster-trouble-free 30-35s allotted from LM/Burg mezzes (/your hunters should be traited for DPS).

Originally Posted by Corienne

Hunter CC is a fine choice b/c of the adaptation buff.

I can agree to this, as long as we are both using the word "fine" in the same context: not giving you ANY benefit whatsoever from a straight CC standpoint over a Burg or LM, and losing more Hunter DPS than is acceptable.

Originally Posted by swordmonkey

BOOM! Excellent. Can't wait for the "ToO Trash too hard?" thread.

Personally I think so. Don't see anything on skill tooltips about removing adaptation. Maybe test these things before releasing a buggy raid? Care to comment on being able to fear Sarumans?

Those of you declaring victory that its not officially an exploit (though still not wai) get ready for some fun in acid trash after update 6.

ToO Trash too hard thread was started a long time ago.....

It was already said many many times that this should have been tested.....

Acid trash the biggest issue is the slugs that spawn every minute, beyond that is not that difficult.....

You just here to argue or do you have anything really relevant to say?

Originally Posted by Lutheran

ToO Trash too hard thread was started a long time ago.....

It was already said many many times that this should have been tested.....

Acid trash the biggest issue is the slugs that spawn every minute, beyond that is not that difficult.....

You just here to argue or do you have anything really relevant to say?

No its actually a ToO is too hard thread. Your asking if I'm here to argue and you argue about that?

Yes it was said before that they need to test there raids more, but they clearly have not learned this yet.

I agree, acid trash is easy once you get it down. Those groups that rely on a not wai mechanic to get past this pull will have to relearn. Thats all I am saying. I am going to quote this post when people post QQ about why this was changed.

Am I just here to argue/troll? Only partially However, my responses include more than "BOOM!" I'm just glad it will be fixed.

An aside: why are raiders these days so allergic to challenge?

Originally Posted by swordmonkey

Excellent. Can't wait for the "ToO Trash too hard?" thread.



Personally I think so. Don't see anything on skill tooltips about removing adaptation. Maybe test these things before releasing a buggy raid?

Those of you celebrating that its not officially an exploit get ready for some fun in acid trash after update 6.

My kin spent 3 weekends learing how to do the trash in Acid by only mezzing the wargs once in combat, only to finally get to the Boss and have it bug out on us with the where we could not kill the boss unless we started it over. So ask yourself, is it really fair to spend all that time learing that trash only to get to a boss that bugs out? We did not think so and so moved our focus to Fire and Frost and than Lighting. Did the pulls from Acid make the other pulls seems like taking caddy from a baby, yes it did, but in the end, we now wasted so much time working on doing what everyone else thought was the right way of doing pulls for fear of being called a kin that exploits. For a kin that is full of peeps 30 and over, married, with full time jobs, kids and only raids 3 hours per raid night, we are going to take this and be happy for the gift jw just gave us and if he ever does change the pulls, we will just learn how to re-do them.

Originally Posted by swordmonkey

No its actually a ToO is too hard thread. Your asking if I'm here to argue and you argue about that?
An aside: why are raiders these days so allergic to challenge?

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ash-in-Orthanc..

Different thread.

I don't think the majority are allergic to challenge, in fact after Draigoch think most of us welcome it. But you shouldn't have to spend a godly amount of time on trash. It would probly be preferred to spend it learning boss mechanics.

Thank you jwbarry for definitively saying that this was not an exploit. It's good to have it confirmed that using your skills as the game has set up for us isn't an exploit.

A whilst these pulls will be harder at least everyone will be sure of what needs to happen once the update hits which will eliminate the unjust criticisms.

Originally Posted by Lutheran

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ash-in-Orthanc..

Different thread.

You and I are in agreement, just talking past each other. A thread called "ToO trash too hard?" does not exist. Notice the quotation marks in my post there. Why are we arguing again?
And you completely missed the point of that statement. So I will restate: Can't wait for the flood of QQ in the forums.

Originally Posted by Jamesm429

My kin spent 3 weekends learing how to do the trash in Acid by only mezzing the wargs once in combat, only to finally get to the Boss and have it bug out on us with the where we could not kill the boss unless we started it over. So ask yourself, is it really fair to spend all that time learing that trash only to get to a boss that bugs out? We did not think so and so moved our focus to Fire and Frost and than Lighting. Did the pulls from Acid make the other pulls seems like taking caddy from a baby, yes it did, but in the end, we now wasted so much time working on doing what everyone else thought was the right way of doing pulls for fear of being called a kin that exploits. For a kin that is full of peeps 30 and over, married, with full time jobs, kids and only raids 3 hours per raid night, we are going to take this and be happy for the gift jw just gave us and if he ever does change the pulls, we will just learn how to re-do them.

Props for doing the pulls the wai way. And yes you will have to re-learn the pulls after the update. Why not just do them the correct way since you know you can?

We have already beat to death the idea that ToO is buggy. Still don't buy that or the "my kin is casual" argument to justify shady tactics. This just leads to "well I'm just using my skills to end the saruman fight early..."

I think its nice how you can fix adaption so quickly but you can't fix the Draigoch fight that wasted 2 hours of my kin's time on multiple bugged attempts tonight...

I would also like to point out that I think the sudden surge in difficulty in this latest raid compared to the others is not down to people wanting a challenge its simply Turbine trying to force the less raid savvy people into buying their little perks from the precious Turbine Shop. Tome of Defence anyone? ;-) I like conspiracy theories

As much as I applaud making things work as intended, making the most difficult and second most obnoxious trash in the game getting more difficult and more obnoxious.

Originally Posted by swordmonkey

An aside: why are raiders these days so allergic to challenge?

Wow, that's rich.

If we were allergic to challenge we wouldn't go in there mulitple times per week to get our asses handed to us.
Is that a good enough rebuttal?

No, I thrive on challenge. The progression from hopelessness and frustration to domination is one of the best things in life - game or otherwise.

Originally Posted by Iracham

As much as I applaud making things work as intended, making the most difficult and second most obnoxious trash in the game getting more difficult and more obnoxious.

Originally Posted by swordmonkey

I agree, acid trash is easy once you get it down. Those groups that rely on a not wai mechanic to get past this pull will have to relearn. Thats all I am saying. I am going to quote this post when people post QQ about why this was changed.

Well that was fast.

Originally Posted by southpa

Wow, that's rich.

If we were allergic to challenge we wouldn't go in there mulitple times per week to get our asses handed to us.
Is that a good enough rebuttal?

No, I thrive on challenge. The progression from hopelessness and frustration to domination is one of the best things in life - game or otherwise.

Nope its not a good enough rebuttal, my comment is simply based off what you can observe in this thread. See above.

Agree with your sentiment about challenge though . Thats why this raid is so fun, even with all the annoying bugs and exploit fails.

Originally Posted by k3nn3th

Perhaps you would benefit from the knowledge that LM's have "both" daze, stun, root, and a pet-dependent fear CC available to them as well.

Thank you, I am aware of that.

It's always nice to keep the full arsenal of options in mind, including the Fan the Flames, but I would honestly not bother with it here. It requires a legendary trait (that is if you are not already adhering to the eagle), it requires a precondition of the fire which requires cycling a DoT skill into the rotation, and for all that you get a 10s fear. Great in some other circumstances, but in this it is certainly not comparable to the fears of the Trapper.

To some degree the Stun effects are also of limited use because they only last for very few seconds.

These skills can be great to cover a gap in other cooldowns when keeping several enemies locked down in any given fight, but they only acount for few seconds on an enemy with Adaption.

Originally Posted by k3nn3th

Additionally, Burglars have "both" daze, root, stun, and CJ CC forms available to them.

The Stuns and the CJ Stun are the same as for the Loremaster. Really useful in a lot of circumstances, but on an enemy where they can only be used once, the 5-10 seconds they last isn't much.

I find one of the things making Burglars a bit less strong in CC is the cooldown on their Riddle. If they get a resist they are less equipped to catch that mob before it runs wild. The same goes with the trolls in the Steamworks, where the CC rotation is broken at times by their Cave In mechanism. Their Riddle and Confound are great tools, but the Loremaster - and the Trapper - have cooldowns (15s cooldown versus a 30s, or longer, effect) that allow them to have Resists and still not loose their control over the enemy.

But let me stress, like in a previous post, that I have nothing against Loremaster and Burglar crowd-controlers. They are great and are prefered for most situations. My argument earlier in this thread is merely to remind people not to forget the Trapper; what the OP - or others struggling with this trash - choose to fit them best is up to them. All we can do is lay out the options at hand. And I think the Trapper is a very viable alternative.

Originally Posted by k3nn3th

Roots (unless on unimportant things like Cave Claws) and fears are inefficient. Taskmasters will have auras, corruptions, inductions, puddles, etc. Fearing them risks a broken fear, as we all know that fears make the target run around. Rooting them risks letting them bubble/corruption/aura buff/induct.

Agree to a certain point on the Root. Especially the Taskmasters still use their most annoying skills, the healing circles and the summoning of adds when rooted, but if rooted they can at least be kept from attacking directly and with proper placement also be kept from having their auras buffing enemies actively engaged. Definately not as good as the other elements in the CC arsenal, but done right they still benefit the raid a bit for the 30s they last.

The Haulers, though, just gets nastier by rooting them.

I agree that Fears are more of a rogue card; especially with the doors now resetting a fights the would-be-fearer really needs to be on their toes to try and direct the path of the feared. But I do find it the second most useful CC on the Adaptions, second to the Daze, and with the Adaptions it is nice to have something to cycle through.

Fears can really make a mess of things. Stumbling into an area where you'd want to do Aoe, to kill or to tank other enemies, or into a door that resets the fight etc. etc., and I've seen fears wipe raids now and then. But when used well, they have their benefits; both as a general CC and especially because they can move the monster, which at times is a benefit. And just as I know how fears can cause problems my view is also tainted by having a really competent Trapper in my group that can make wonders with these skills.

Originally Posted by k3nn3th

You should be burning whatever your groups' DPS allows you to within the Taskmaster-trouble-free 30-35s allotted from LM/Burg mezzes (/your hunters should be traited for DPS).

The thing is that I never go with the same makeup of classes. My raiding group does not have a small core group and it varies wildly from raid to raid, and I neither can nor will focus recruiting or raid rosters purely on classes. Sometimes we will have no burglars at all for a raid and other times no loremasters, and so on. So we adapt. The Steamwork T2 trash for instance, we've had to learn to kill in many different ways, to fit to the given raid on a given night. A Trapper is one among many alternatives, and especially enemies with various CC defence mechanisms have been great targets for their bow and arrow in both Ost Dunhoth and in Orthanc. Not to oust the traditional CC classes but to either coorporate with them, or to fill their shoes when missing.

I should add that my group has no issues with the trash in the Steamworks. I am giving advice here for those still struggling with it and I think that they are, the OP foremostly, entitled to get different inputs, even if seemingly opposed. One or more of those inputs might be exactly what they needed to find a path for their group. Using a Trapper is certainly not the way to go, nor is going without using Hunter CC the way to do it.

Luckily most fights have many different possible solutions; it is just a matter of using all the tools at ones disposal and then finding the approach(es) that fits one's own group.

Originally Posted by jwbarry

On the subject of adaptation:

Are the character skills being used currently working as intended, yes.

Is adaptation currently working as intended in how it responds to them, no.

I cannot stress this enough, but thank you, jwbarry!

It is really great to get a developer response on this. The otherwise brilliant raids you guys have designed for us to take on are really so challenging in T2 that victory hangs in the thinest of threads. Especially for us more casual raid groups, with a very slow and rugged progress. And because these fights are so challenging, finding our way through them can be difficult and seperating legit strategies from the use of design flaws has gotten more difficult because of that thin thread. Alright sometimes it is eyeglaringly clear that something is an exploit (none named, but we have all heard of a few) and thus to keep well clear off, but some of them fall smack in a difficult grey zone.

This was - in my view - one of those. So grey that my own instinct has been shifting much between hot and cold whether to use this fact as a strategic advantage, among several otherwise different competing strategies used to clear these pulls, but at the same time definately not something I would recommend to others, lest it should eventually be seen as an exploit and not as intended gameplay.

The problem is that many of us really want to experience the cool challenges as originally invented at your drawing boards, rather than to skittle through it because of some bug, but at times it can be utterly impossible to be certain if something is one or the other. In those situation it is a frustration for players as myself, that it seems that the policy of the company is to not comment on specific exploits. Without knowing why that is, the nearest conclusion to me would be that it is to prevent spreading their use further. However it makes it a bit difficult for groups that wants to take an active choice to avoid these exploits. In fact it seems the only guiding 'communications' we see from Turbine, is when posts or threads including specific strategies are completely removed by the moderators, and I was actually beginning to consider if we should just post the details of the mechanism discussed here... with the sole purpose to see whether it got nuked by moderators, as a way to settle this debate (and find some peace of mind on this issue)!

I understand if we cannot expect coments on most discussions on possible exploits, but I just wanted to tell - and explain - why it is so positively refreshing to read your frank and to-the-point feedback here. I am happy it is now clearer, that we know what was intended, and that a clarifying solution is in the works. Thank you!

Originally Posted by jwbarry

On the subject of adaptation:

Appreciate the clarification. Thank you.

Back when I started raiding with the rift, the bosses were the challenge. If I think about Thrang or Thaurlach and then T2 Lightning ...

I don't know, but raiding for me is interesting when fighting multi-phase boss fights with interessting mechanics and adds. In BG/OD the time spent vs. difficulty of the trash mobs was more in line than in Orthanc.

Well designed trash mob groups are fun and certainly better than the trash in the old raids before SoM. But the devs should ask themselves if raiding is about epic trash mob groups or epic bosses . I never heard someone raving about the last mob group before the twins in BG or the last group before Ivar.

Originally Posted by Valerian_Moonfire

I never heard someone raving about the last mob group before the twins in BG

Because to this day they still haven't fixed tracking the wargs in there.

Originally Posted by Thorebane

******** tells you, 'test of will, stun for 5 secs, I use straight away when pound starts'

Never heard of the skill myself but we tested again last night, 2/3 times worked =]. It might be as you say a bug, ahm feature .

I tried this, it didn't work for me. I can't see why it would either, Test of Will is just a stun and I've used other stuns on them before and they haven't worked.

I have a feeling that because ToW is a long induction skill that maybe your LM started the induction a couple of seconds in to the cave in and then by the time the induction went off the cave in was over natuarally. That's my only explanation, other than a possible glitch/bug.

Well...did they fix stealth mez adapation stuff? My kin unfortunately/fortunately never knew about it so we learned how to clear trash not using it.

Originally Posted by Chris91

Hey

after clearing Orthanc T1 we started doing T2 and have some problems with Lightning Trash

What we don´t know is how to deal with the 2nd pull, we get masses of those small 8k cave claws (around 15) killing our Healers, are these somehow related to the Taskmasters? Or what causes their span?

What´s the right order to kill and what to CC for the best result?

Thanks in advance for your help

Just mezz the taskmasters for maximum time with blinding flash for 30sec, test of will, burning embers, fear (eagle), root... also don't use aoe's in there. You have two Taskmasters to hold down so bring two trained LM's, also I hear that hunters are incredibly skilled in mezzing. Discus your style of cc with your raid team and don't give up. Spend at least an hour together trying to get used to the timing etc. in Tier two there is no room for any mistakes it has to run as smooth as possible. Perhaps you already have the right idea and it just needs to be executed right.

Originally Posted by Amlost

Well...did they fix stealth mez adapation stuff? My kin unfortunately/fortunately never knew about it so we learned how to clear trash not using it.

Yeah I will check tonight if they inlcuded this in 5.2. Not holding my breath for a fix this soon. Esp since draigoch seems to be even worse now lol.

Anyone else bothered to check this?

Originally Posted by swordmonkey

Yeah I will check tonight if they inlcuded this in 5.2. Not holding my breath for a fix this soon. Esp since draigoch seems to be even worse now lol.

Anyone else bothered to check this?

They'll be adding this with update 6. We've tried since 5.2 patch and you can still do it as before.

does anyone have a clue how to deal with the trashpulls in shadow wing t2 ? any advice/hints/tips? got past the first grp after a few trys but the second grp is really annoying with those silcene mobs around the corner this time thus making ccing them a pain in the ###.

Our second tank pulls both of them silencers on one side (nearby one of the healers) and tanks them while we kill the Shak hai and the little Uruks on the other side (healers mezz/stun). As long as our healers stand outside the silence area, its no problem cause the nightcallers don't make much melee damage.

The Shadow T2 is a pain initially, but its not that bad.

We initially Stun the 2 casters so no one gets Shadow Grasp, then we have our guard take them on the stairs.
We get Hunters on the Paw(Healer), then the Star(healer), they die fast. Next up our Champ/cappies grab both uruk-hai and nuke them down quickly, WDN tanks the Moon (Shak-hai), we pull crossed swords into dps group and nuke him down.

Usually 2 uruk-hai appear so we again taunt them and AoE them down.

Once one Shak-hai is dead we nuke the Uruk-hais left then the last Shak.

Just remember to pot poisons and full heal Shadow Grasp members.

Originally Posted by MessyR

The Shadow T2 is a pain initially, but its not that bad.

We initially Stun the 2 casters so no one gets Shadow Grasp, then we have our guard take them on the stairs.
We get Hunters on the Paw(Healer), then the Star(healer), they die fast. Next up our Champ/cappies grab both uruk-hai and nuke them down quickly, WDN tanks the Moon (Shak-hai), we pull crossed swords into dps group and nuke him down.

Usually 2 uruk-hai appear so we again taunt them and AoE them down.

Once one Shak-hai is dead we nuke the Uruk-hais left then the last Shak.

Just remember to pot poisons and full heal Shadow Grasp members.

Interesting.

That is pretty much the exact opposite of the kill order that we use.

Nice to see that different methods work.