Thread: Signature Spreadout - We want an Edoras bigger than Bree

Just in idea it came to my head.

The perfect phasing system of lotro (if it would be perfect) should add us a question at the beggining to choose: You want the services NPCs all together or spread around the city.

And then it would depend of your answer to Show some npcs or another ones.

I think edoras should have many things in the centre but still some things in the other parts of the city, like barber

While I can say I like big lively cities, I can't say I'd quit over it. Personally I think Rivendell should've had more to it. There should be a fort around The Forsaken Inn, being as it's all surrounded by orcs and goblins and nasty things of all kinds. Maybe different NPC's for night and day too, it doesn't make much sense to have the same stable master standing there by his horses 24/7. There should be a night-shift crew.

An Edoras the size of Bree or Bigger would be nice. I particularly like the idea of a centralized location for AH, Vault, etc with Guild spaces throughout the town. I also disliked the cluster that was created in Galtrev where every guild was just dumped in the same room like an after thought. It might be easier to have small clusters like a Historians Hall or a Street of the Historians, Yeoman, etc where the different ASSOCIATED guilds could be near each other. This would sort of be a middle ground. It wouldn't be a huge town with nothing except at travel points but at the same time, everything wouldn't be crammed into the same basement like at Galtrev. A decent compromise.

I think that Housing would be a must for Edoras. If Turbine actually would add the housing to the landscape it would help to fill in the town and with a look and feel that was different from one day to the next. It would sure beat the "wonderful" cookie cutter neighbourhoods that we have now. Heck, make the outlying farmsteads different neighbourhoods too.

And, since we are talking about the land of the horselords, add STABLES to the housing. I have many different mounts and I am not the only one that does. It would be nice to have the various mounts available to view when not in use. It might even be worth doing this as a store only or VIP only upgrade to help pay for the programming time. It could even be used as an incentive to upgrade to VIP or to buy RoR. I am fairly certain that it would pay for itself many times over and very quickly. It surely seems to be a no brainer.

Originally Posted by Saelyth

Just in idea it came to my head.

The perfect phasing system of lotro (if it would be perfect) should add us a question at the beggining to choose: You want the services NPCs all together or spread around the city.

And then it would depend of your answer to Show some npcs or another ones.

Or just put multiple NPC's who do the same thing spread throughout. There are 2 stablemasters in Bree, why not Edoras? Why not 2 Auctioneers? Or 3? Or 5? This would make it seem more "populated" too. Although if I see any Dwarf or Elf NPC's in Edoras, I'll be disappointed.

And what's with the CG hate??? CG has literally everything within a 3 second walk except the stablemaster, and that's just a few more seconds. And the stablemaster in CG will get you anywhere in Middle Earth in 2 or 3 hops, assuming you don't have any milestones/travel skills.

There are very few exceptions, one being the skirm camp... that's a little jaunt (Echad Andestel). But you can simply swift to 21st and run to the closer one there. Another is the Guild Halls, which can be found in either Esteldin (2 hops) or Galtrev (1 hop) anyway.

I would prefer a spread out location like Bree. It seems to fit the lore better. We'll likely arrive during/shortly before/shortly after Helm's Deep, so we probably won't see too many people there, but I have no problem with it being big.

In fact, now that I think of it, Edoras should actually be deserted by the time we get there. Everyone is at Helm's Deep. We might not see any NPC's at all!

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

In fact, now that I think of it, Edoras should actually be deserted by the time we get there. Everyone is at Helm's Deep. We might not see any NPC's at all!

LOL you can be totally right in that possibility, i never though in it.

edit: My 1000 post!

Edoras should be a farmers best friend. This is a city of the horselords. That means lots of horses which means lots of horse poo. There should be lots of rich soil in the city because of that. The city may have been built with cobblestones but there would definitely be lots of horse poo covering them and excited farmers everywhere waiting to enter to pick it all up.

(as a kid I would drive out to farms with my dad and a potato sack picking up cow poop to use in our large veggie garden)

Even if the city is deserted or working on a skeleton staff centuries of horse poo would still cake the place. Theodred in the dazed state and wormtongue have never stuck me as the kind of administrators to allocate city funding to cleaning the streets of horse poo either. Brown streets and wooden dutch shoes here we come.

Actually I see Bree as little more than a village. Yes they call it a town in the books but it could never be considered large. I always think of Bree, Straddle, Archet as a mounting to a total population of 2,000 folks.

Edoras I see as a real walled town. As for the population I would guess it somewhere in the 10,000 range. In middle age terms a very large city.

MT I see as a metropolis which is 50% deserted. It always strikes me as a city that should have 100,000 people living inside the city. But now may have 50,000. Remember even the folk of Rohan were amazed at the size of MT.

Back on topic......

I think the best idea offered so far was a large city with two, three or four service hubs. I would not mind a crafting zone with a stable master and other basic services. An AH zone with stable and basic services. A guild zone with stable and basic services. That would be rather unique and useful for spreading out the folks spending time in the city.

If turbine is following the books then Edoras should bigger then Bree by at least double.This was the main city of Rohan that held thousands of people.When Theoden orders the initial muster to go to towards Isengard there were more then a thousand riders on the field.You have to figure there were even more troops that didnt ride(both to guard the city and to protect the population that went to Dunharrow)and thousands of civilians.

I hope they get this right.Most cities they have done seem underwhelming.Rivendel seems to small and unpopulated for being an elvish city,same with Lothlorien which should have held thousands of elves.

Originally Posted by guguzza71

Even if the city is deserted or working on a skeleton staff centuries of horse poo would still cake the place. Theodred in the dazed state and wormtongue have never stuck me as the kind of administrators to allocate city funding to cleaning the streets of horse poo either. Brown streets and wooden dutch shoes here we come.

(Theoden enters)

Serf 1: Who's that then?

Serf 2: I dunno. Must be the king.

Serf 1: Why?

Serf 2: 'E hasn't got #### all over 'im.

Originally Posted by guguzza71

Edoras should be a farmers best friend. This is a city of the horselords. That means lots of horses which means lots of horse poo. There should be lots of rich soil in the city because of that. The city may have been built with cobblestones but there would definitely be lots of horse poo covering them and excited farmers everywhere waiting to enter to pick it all up.

(as a kid I would drive out to farms with my dad and a potato sack picking up cow poop to use in our large veggie garden)

Even if the city is deserted or working on a skeleton staff centuries of horse poo would still cake the place. Theodred in the dazed state

I think you mean Theoden.

and wormtongue have never stuck me as the kind of administrators to allocate city funding to cleaning the streets of horse poo either. Brown streets and wooden dutch shoes here we come.

We get a detailed description of the exterior and interior of Edoras in The Two Towers, Chapter 6. "The King of the Golden Hall." Legolas, looking from a distance with his Elf super-vision, describes it thus:

I see a white stream that comes down from the snows. Where it issues from the shadow of the vale a green hill rises upom the east. A dike and mighty wall and thorny fence encircle it. Within there rise the roofs of houses, and in the midst, set upon a green terrace, there stands aloft a great hall of Men. And it seems to my eyes that it is thatched with gold. The light of it shines far over the land. Golden, too, are the posts of its doors. There men in bright mail stand, but all else within the courts are yet asleep.

When Gandalf and his companions enter Edoras,

The dark gates were swung open. The travellers entered, walking in file behind their guide. They found a broad path, paved with hewn stones, now winding upward, now climbing in short flights of well-laid steps. Many houses built of wood and many dark doors they passed. Beside the way in a stone channel a stream of clear water flowed, sparkling and chattering. At length they came to the crown of the hill. There stood a high platform above a green terrace, at the foot of which a bright spring gushed from a stone carved in the likeness of a horse's head; beneath was a wide basin from which the water spilled and fed the falling stream. Up the green terrace went a stair of stone, high and broad, and on either side of the topmost step were stone-hewn seats.

So, two points. First, a city littered with horse poop is not going to have a stream of clear water running alongside the street; it would be fouled and filthy. (I suspect that as in Minas Tirith, there are stables right inside the gate and horses are discouraged from going any further into the city.)

Secondly, note that the street is in fact paved with stone. Now, the Rohirrim are loan-translations of the Anglo-Saxons who invaded England in the fifth and sixth centuries C.E. and settled in, replacing the Romano-British who had lived peacefully there till the legions were recalled. In the epic Beowulf, in the sequence where Beowulf and his party approach Heorot -- which closely parallels the approach of Gandalf and his party to Meduseld -- the poet says, Straet waes stanfaest, "the street was paved with stone." In other words, it was a Roman road like those the Saxons found all over England. But Beowulf is set in Denmark and southern Sweden, where the Romans never came; the English poet assumed Roman streets where there weren't any.

In the case of Edoras, I think we have to assume that the Men of Gondor, who rewarded the aid of the Rohirrim on Parth Celebrant by allowing them to settle in Calenardhon, built roads for them in their own Imperial Roman style.

In any case, having seen the Rohirrim camps as Turbine has drawn them -- in particular the geteld-style tents, which are accurate down to the hanging straps that could be used to draw the end-flaps aside -- I am confident that Edoras will be as accurately portrayed as Man and computer can make it.

I'll have to say "no" on the bigger than Bree thing. While the distance between services means absolutely nothing to me, and I thoroughly enjoy exploring (and RPing) in the game world, I'm concerned that what is being asked for here is something that would not resemble Edoras at all; as in too big and too developed.

This is about as big as I would go:

http://images.tolkienworld.free.fr/alan_lee/edoras.jpg

I love exploring Middle Earth, so please keep it as like to Middle Earth as possible, which would not mean bigger (nor more) city-like areas. As an MMO, the distances have been condensed and the population higher per area (players and NPCs alike) than it should be already for the world.

Someone mentioned liking Annuminas and wishing Edoras could be like that. Annuminas was part of the peak of an ancient civilization. That time has passed. The world is supposed to be a lonelier and wilder place. As for those that feel daunted by the size of the enemy settlements, well, that's kind of the point. Not to despair, but to realize the direness of the situation. Persevering against such odds is one of the many heroic things about the LoTR books and so makes sense in the game based on them.

Edit: djheydt: Just had to add well done on the book quotes; informative post. + rep

To an earlier poster, I also just reread that section of the book. I found a reference for "many houses" but not hundreds of roofs, at least, not in Edoras. If you meant Minas Tirith, I apologize.

Originally Posted by BlueGuardian

I'll have to say "no" on the bigger than Bree thing. While the distance between services means absolutely nothing to me, and I thoroughly enjoy exploring (and RPing) in the game world, I'm concerned that what is being asked for here is something that would not resemble Edoras at all; as in too big and too developed.

This is about as big as I would go:

http://images.tolkienworld.free.fr/alan_lee/edoras.jpg

I love exploring Middle Earth, so please keep it as like to Middle Earth as possible, which would not mean bigger (nor more) city-like areas. As an MMO, the distances have been condensed and the population higher per area (players and NPCs alike) than it should be already for the world.

Someone mentioned liking Annuminas and wishing Edoras could be like that. Annuminas was part of the peak of an ancient civilization. That time has passed. The world is supposed to be a lonelier and wilder place. As for those that feel daunted by the size of the enemy settlements, well, that's kind of the point. Not to despair, but to realize the direness of the situation. Persevering against such odds is one of the many heroic things about the LoTR books and so makes sense in the game based on them.

Edit: djheydt: Just had to add well done on the book quotes; informative post. + rep

To an earlier poster, I also just reread that section of the book. I found a reference for "many houses" but not hundreds of roofs, at least, not in Edoras. If you meant Minas Tirith, I apologize.

If you wanna go by the book Edoras should be fairly large.it is the chief and only city of Rohan.Has paved roads and housed thousands.the muster that Theoden did contained more then a thousand riders.You have to figure theer are at least double that number in civilians ,plus housing for at least a thousand horses.Stangard is only supposed to be an outpost on the border yet the main city would be the same size?it is described in the books as a city,even Bree is not described as such.

Originally Posted by SHADOW83

If you wanna go by the book Edoras should be fairly large.it is the chief and only city of Rohan.Has paved roads and housed thousands.the muster that Theoden did contained more then a thousand riders.You have to figure theer are at least double that number in civilians ,plus housing for at least a thousand horses.Stangard is only supposed to be an outpost on the border yet the main city would be the same size?it is described in the books as a city,even Bree is not described as such.

I am not certain it is ever described as a city though (except in certain online wikis), especially as one that houses thousands as you said; in fact, the word "town" is used in the book. And as the party climbs to the Golden Hall, Tolkien uses the phrase, "many houses", not hundreds or thousands. I agree, we could debate semantics here. The only paved road I see mentioned is the one leading straight to the Hall.

As for the mustering:

LOTR:The Two Towers--The King of the Golden Hall:

""Now my guests, come!" said Theoden. "Come and take such refreshment as haste allows.'
They passed back into the great house. Already they heard below them in the town the heralds crying and the war-horns blowing. For the king was to ride forth as soon as the men of the town and those dwelling near could be armed and assembled."

So, "town and those dwelling near" implies that more than just those living withing Edoras shall arrive for the muster. Horses need room and land to graze. Having too many at Edoras alone could be problematic.

After awhile the chapter goes on to say:

"When they had all drunk, the king went down the hall to the doors. There the guards awaited him, and the heralds stood, and all the lords and chiefs were gathered together that remained in Edoras or dwelt nearby."

They do eventually find the thousand waiting below at the gate to the settlement though the last line of that quote again implies they come from more than Edoras itself. I am not certain most of Tolkien's settlements (except arguably, Minas Tirith), in this part of the history could be likened to capital cities we know in real life, or even necessarily ones in "medieval" times as the Professor was creating a mythology for England that predated much of its history as we know it.

Here are a couple more links with some interesting takes on it, the first with an explanation, the second being the movie set which I found interesting:

http://www.quicksilver899.com/Tolkie...nGallery1.html
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iZ8clBVPai...day740x508.jpg

Bree proper (not including Archet, Combe and Staddle or hobbit homes) is described as having "some hundred stone houses of the Big Folk", so at least we have an idea. To be fair, it is called "the village of Bree", so that can be in favor of your argument, though I feel the "some hundred stone houses" of Bree and only "many houses" of wood in Edoras, could support mine. Who knows, maybe Bree is too big in the game as it is supposedly a village, and Edoras, a town.

I understand where you are coming from though. I guess from what I have read over the years as well the links I showed above, I have a different vision of Edoras instead of as a large city. I'm not even sure what the game servers can support for size and population of NPC's anyway. I guess we'll see where the developers go with this and I definitely hope we both enjoy whatever it ends up being.

Originally Posted by djheydt

I think you mean Theoden.



We get a detailed description of the exterior and interior of Edoras in The Two Towers, Chapter 6. "The King of the Golden Hall." Legolas, looking from a distance with his Elf super-vision, describes it thus:

Youre likely right. I get all my images of a medieval town from Monty Python films peopled with citizens who are in dire need of dental care and vaccinations. Love the scene from "jabberwocky" where one man says his friend was so scared his teeth turned white. I dare say that it would not be wise to drink from that sparkling stream past the point of its hitting the street.

Originally Posted by BlueGuardian

Who knows, maybe Bree is too big in the game as it is supposedly a village, and Edoras, a town.

The funny thing about Bree is that in physical extent, it's probably done to full scale in-game. However, it's way too fancy for a country village; Turbine have made into your typical fantasy hub town. The problem is that it's on such a scale that they probably couldn't do Edoras any bigger without having it take up too much space on the map. Hence, I would be surprised if in-game Edoras were bigger than Bree even though it should be.

I really like to enter one of those cities and actually feel like its a city and not a village. With that in mind:

Edoras should be bigger than Bree and Minas Tirith should be bigger than Edoras, so....


/doublesigned!

Edit: Bigger doesnt have to mean wide. Minas Tirith is a city on levels and Edoras also is structured like that.

OK personal opinion TOTALLY SIGNED. Middle Earth needs another big city and Edoras and later Helms deep(which is really not a city) can work for it

First of all i dont think we could even compare on logic Bree or Stangard with Edoras. We talking about the capital of a huge region named Rohan and as a friend send before with handreds of roofs(from the books) tall walls and ...oh yeah a palace. I Know how convenient is to have all close....but you have so many places for that. You need to craft or vault and auctions near visit Galtrev if its suits you better but let Edoras be an actual city.Edoras is from the most iconical places and like Bree or Caras i think the Devs will continue with the same philosophy.I don't mind if its convenient or not but Edoras should be big, should be epic, should give you goozepumbs and i believe for those who don't agree they don't want to play lotro they just want to play another mmo My sympathies :P

About what i really believe they ll do is not what you ask and not what the others ask but what the books says and how important place is that for the fans of middle earth.Turbine enchant us

Originally Posted by Eorran

I really like to enter one of those cities and actually feel like its a city and not a village.

I wonder, though, whether Edoras really is a city. There is some great textual evidence in this thread, and that should obviously be the primary information used for crafting the city. But some of the passages leave some ambiguity as to its size. Edoras is the seat of the King of Rohan rather than an economic center of activity. While you would certainly have some craftsmen, cooks and other basic services in Edoras, you would not have a thriving urban economy unless there were a number of guilds in the town. Given the agricultural basis of Rohan's economy, I would not expect to see many guilds (like you would probably see in Minas Tirith).

Without the guilds, there is no reason to live in Edoras unless you are associated with the King's court. And that would likely not involve too many people -- cooks, advisers, and his guard. The lords of Rohan were not concentrated at the King's court but resided in their local manors.

One way to perhaps think of it is in terms of state capitals here in the U.S. Many of them are in tiny towns rather than the major urban centers. And in a country based around an agricultural economy like Rohan, there is no reason to have any urban centers. So even Edoras is probably more like a village than a city in terms of size despite its political importance.

Originally Posted by guguzza71

poo.

Haha, poo...

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

The funny thing about Bree is that in physical extent, it's probably done to full scale in-game. However, it's way too fancy for a country village; Turbine have made into your typical fantasy hub town. The problem is that it's on such a scale that they probably couldn't do Edoras any bigger without having it take up too much space on the map. Hence, I would be surprised if in-game Edoras were bigger than Bree even though it should be.

Hmm, yeah I can see your point here. The description of Bree in the book makes it sound less "fancy" as you put it. Stone buildings instead of the Tudor-style, multileveled thing going on in the game. So it could be they did want something more impressive than the book implies.

Pellethor, if you really think that those who don't agree with having a large Edoras "don't want to play lotro they just want to play another mmo", as you put it, then you have not read my posts at the very least. I don't play other MMOs, in fact this is my first. I'm more of a Middle Earth geek than a MMO player. I just happen to like games in general. So lore is my concern here; if you are playing LOTRO for itself, than it should be as close to Middle Earth as possible. Otherwise, it would be just another MMO with fantasy themes. I do understand where people wanting large cities are coming from, I just don't agree with it in most cases for the world. If I want large cities, I'll play Daggerfall (many cities and rampant overpopulation heheh) or another of the Elder Scrolls games, which I enjoy. They don't have to worry about servers when buildings their cities, and they have their own lore to make different decisions.

As long as the developers stay as true to the book description and world as possible, I can be flexible. Peace. B)

Edit: ScionofAngmar posted some interesting points as well. +1 Rep if I had more to give

First of all yes i didn't read your post as the post of many other people.I don't know whats your opinion but i can see clearly whats the problem on these forums everybody thinks you speak aggresive. I was a bit sarcastic but in a funny way.

From what i understand our opinion is not different really cause if you read mine i said in the end whatever the book says will happen wether the result is big city or small.

Now when we say big city i don't mean minas tirith obviously... But i find ridiculus at least the thought that it will be in the size of a town for murderers like Stangard...i cant help it if some ideas in here really sounds silly no offence.

And something else that i saw in one post.Someone answered that why bother for edoras.will not be in this expansion. ilove when i say that but WE KNOW an the OP knows too,he says so. But clearly since there have been at least 6 threads with the word edoras inside clearly people want to talk about it ...and clearly you want to see what they talk about too in order to open and read it.
PEace

Sorry for the english

Originally Posted by Pelethor

First of all yes i didn't read your post as the post of many other people.I don't know whats your opinion but i can see clearly whats the problem on these forums everybody thinks you speak aggresive. I was a bit sarcastic but in a funny way.

From what i understand our opinion is not different really cause if you read mine i said in the end whatever the book says will happen wether the result is big city or small.

Now when we say big city i don't mean minas tirith obviously... But i find ridiculus at least the thought that it will be in the size of a town for murderers like Stangard...i cant help it if some ideas in here really sounds silly no offence.

And something else that i saw in one post.Someone answered that why bother for edoras.will not be in this expansion. ilove when i say that but WE KNOW an the OP knows too,he says so. But clearly since there have been at least 6 threads with the word edoras inside clearly people want to talk about it ...and clearly you want to see what they talk about too in order to open and read it.
PEace

Sorry for the english

No worries. I didn't think you spoke aggressively, nor was I as you know. I was just answering your post; I did see your smiley emote after the part I quoted, so I didn't think you were being harsh. My post was meant to be mellow in response but it is hard to tell tone sometimes on forums so I agree with you there. We're both sharing our opinion so it's all good. No need to apologize for the english, it sounds fine to me. Cheers.

Originally Posted by BlueGuardian

Hmm, yeah I can see your point here. The description of Bree in the book makes it sound less "fancy" as you put it. Stone buildings instead of the Tudor-style, multileveled thing going on in the game. So it could be they did want something more impressive than the book implies.

It's a style I call 'Turbine Tudor', it's familiar from their other games. Not really right for this at all, I think - it gives a very generic fantasy look, and something more realistic (and above all, English-looking) would have suited Bree better. And it's not just the big buildings, it's the paved streets and the fountains and whatnot. I mean okay, the Dwarves could do that sort of work no problem but it'd need paying for, and a bunch of hicks in a country village wouldn't have the coin for that.

To me, Bree looks like London (or some of the surrounding settlements that would have had Roman influence) should have looked some 1000 years ago; but that's just my opinion. Plus, Bree is built, in lore, on the ruins of a Numenorian settlement, so the fountain makes sense. The Men of the West made it on the site of an artesian well. Hmm I am conflicted about signing the petition, but the post is excellent.

Sorry to jump in so late in the thread. Just wanted to know if the petition still contains the ultimatum around quitting the game. If it doesn't I applaud the OP's sentiment and position and would love to sign. If I threaten to quit though I'd be a hypocrite and a liar. If I quit lotro it would be when and if I decide to quit gaming.

Originally Posted by cdq1958

To me, Bree looks like London (or some of the surrounding settlements that would have had Roman influence) should have looked some 1000 years ago; but that's just my opinion. Plus, Bree is built, in lore, on the ruins of a Numenorian settlement, so the fountain makes sense. The Men of the West made it on the site of an artesian well. Hmm I am conflicted about signing the petition, but the post is excellent.

I've got no idea where you're getting that idea from. Great big Tudor-looking windows? Chimneys? You're half a millennium off. And the thing about paved roads and fountains is that they need looking after if they're not to deteriorate, and where would a bunch of hicks be getting the money from to do that?

Originally Posted by bambubambubambu

I agree with Yula. I rarely if ever used the services in Bree because they were just too far apart. Even in the lower levels the Shire and Thorin's Hall was preferable because I didn't have to run from one end of the town to the other.

I don't mind having some space to wander around in for aesthetics but please bring all the services close like they have done in Galtrev and 21st Hall etc.

The problem with having the services all close together like that is LAG, and lots of it.

Lagtrev wasnt nicknamed that for nothing.

Bree used to be really bad for that when the game first started until until they moved the vendors indoors.

Signed.

Has anyone suggested maybe multiple facilities?

Anyway, convenient as it may be, I'm tired of having all the things ever in one little room. I actually liked the way Stangard was spread out more (unlike Lhunach where they apparently have one business hut for all your doingthingsness, and galtrev which was pretty much the same).

But making it small would not do it justice. No matter what the size, it will lag when the entire high-lvl playerbase descends upon it as crebain upon their dying prey.

I never found Bree to be that big. I tend to use it's facilities more than most places. I still use the superior study in the shire often, too, and Esteldin is still one of my major places to craft things.

To each their own, but we have enough cramped "towns"

Let's make this one epic.

I'd like to take the threads back to the points about roleplaying; I'd say it's important that, especially on Laurelin, an "RP" server, the devs or whoever is in charge of implementing the designs for Edoras should take into consideration that one of the main reasons that a lot of people still stay in Bree, regardless of the general level of the area, is the Prancing Pony. It's no different from any other interior location, aside from the fact that it was established as a major roleplaying location. If Turbine can somehow make it so that there's another roleplaying hub in Edoras then there'll be another reason for people to mill around the city as if it's genuine.

And, of course, I'd love to see it implemented as big as an actual city; the "wasted" space in Bree, in my opinion, is not an issue at all and just adds to the whole experience of taking a stroll through Tolkien's world.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

[...]

But making it small would not do it justice. No matter what the size, it will lag when the entire high-lvl playerbase descends upon it as crebain upon their dying prey.

[...]

LOL! XD

I'd also like to see Edoras bigger than Stangard, the latter is just an outpost! But what I'd really like to see bigger than everything else is Meduseld.
Anyway, I'm sure Turbine will do its best to build it according to the LotR book and Tolkien lore.

I cannot sign anything that implies leaving the game and such if they don't grant all our wishes, sorry.

I would like to see a large Edoras. The instanced housing in the town sounds great! I have faith that turbine can reconcile these problems and produce a great space true to the lore.

I don't mind Bree's size and spread out design, a few seconds on horse got you anywhere. Important to me is to promote the second M and RP in MMORPG using hubs like this. The best part of a game like this, to me, is playing and socializing with others. Easter eggs would be cool. Quest hubs for different levels in different parts of the city might work, quests that send you out of the city as well as around it. Multiple stable masters for sure. Farming communities surrounding the town, similar to shire considering lessons learned from there. I'm just excited so I'm rambling now! O, and definitely a festival area.

I will not quit the game over something like this, but otherwise

signed

I agree that Edoras should be large, I love exploring...found a new house to go into Bree the other day which was a delight

I do not even mind if it turns out to be bigger than Bree, as any main city it should look well lived in, for many many folk.
More guards, horses, stables, houses, pubs, jail, food quarter, npc's the lot. The lag in the smaller hubs like Galtrev can get so ridiculous especially if you want to deconstruct a relic in the middle, so having multiple options in Edoras can split the crowd. Putting a lot of the merchants indoors was also a great idea for Stangard and can easily be adopted for Edoras. The guard towers were also a nice touch, felt more protected that way.

I'm still waiting on a location where stable, vault, AH, skirm camp, craft guild NPCs, LI NPCs, crafting NPCs and end game barter vendors are all in one place and not seperated by loading screens.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

I'm still waiting on a location where stable, vault, AH, skirm camp, craft guild NPCs, LI NPCs, crafting NPCs and end game barter vendors are all in one place and not seperated by loading screens.

And when you find it, there you will remain forever because your framerate will drop to about one a week

Not signed. Bree is about as large an area as a population center should get for game mechanic reasons (Minas Tirith will be an exception). I actually like Stangard, if it had a few adjustments it'd be perfect. I'm even willing to bet that Stangard is a model layout for Edoras. Add a few more houses, move the hill a little higher, expand the hall a little more, viola.

Stangard just needs a few adjustments. Put a mailbox in the craft area/vault. Move that craft area a bit closer to the AH ( or vice verse) and I think it would be perfect.

A couple points I read earlier in the thread I do have to discuss. How does a center become so in a game?

Look at the first major center. Bree. Why? It has access to AH, crafts, and is a cross roads. All the starter areas feed to it. It can reach Rivendell, North downs, Evendim the other starting areas with swift travel. MD, TH and Celondim cannot. Bree has a quick travel power available to all but men early (now, not always so). It has no advanced crafting, but at that level, you don't have to have it. It does have a quick travel option to all the places that do have advanced craft areas. It also has hunter port access. So what? Solo, not a big deal, but hunters are the only Fellowhip porter in the game. When a group finishes questing, guess where they go? Where the hunter takes them. Can hunters get to CG? No, how about lothlorien? Not easily. Mirkwood? Yeah but then it's a horse ride to the castle and it's annoying. You also have to pay more than a port to get there ( 5 travel rations at 2 silver, 10 silver for a port. 22.5 (with discount) for a horse ride). Not everyone cares, but that thought does cross some minds.

Now, after Bree and before 21st hall, name anything like them? Rivendell? sorry, does not have all the workshops or easy access to them, and you still have to run from one end of the place to another for anything. Oh, and another point about Rivendell. It was never a "city" Never was described as such. It was described in the books but nothing in them gave any indication of a city. More like a plantation if anything. Or a small spread out farming community. Sorry for the side track. Back on point. Bree, 21st hall, then Galtrev. Galtrev has everything. That is why everyone was there. The only annoyance was the port being so far down the hill at the first gate entrance. But the stable went everywhere, it has all trade needs, AH and vendors and central location and plenty of mailboxes. Everything was there, in one place. No wonder as soon as Galtrev was in game 21st hall almost became a ghost town.

Edoras will need all those things to become a center for the game. Trades, AH, Vault,vendors, stable point center, and easy portal access. It also will need to be big enough to hold everyone, but small enough that it's not like Rivendell or Bree where you have to run half a mile to get to anything. Otherwise people will stay in Stangard and Galtrev (Mostly Galtrev). Convenience.