Thread: Signature Spreadout - We want an Edoras bigger than Bree

First of all i'd say i'm not english, so apologies for my typos :P.

This is a petition to every player that feels like Turbine should make another big town like Bree size is right now. Full of life and full of... everything else. Most of the responses i got when i ask about this is that Turbine will probably make Minas Tirith feels like a new big city, but i find some issues in that.
- 1: It's still too far, maybe in 2014.
- 2: Why can't turbine has 3 big cities in the world?.
- 3: As the capitol of one (if not the most) big kingdoms in middle earth, in Edoras lives a lot of people.

Actually, Lotro is going intended to be a Solo experience with opportunity to group up and make raids with people. But in the near future if Edoras is just as empty (of houses, or npcs) as any other town like the ones in enedwaith or dunland, i must say it's gonna be a complete Solo experience with no interest in grouping.

Why this? As i realized playing along the years, the players usually team up with unknown players in Bree (if low level) or in the most top-end Hub at the moment if they are high level (21st hall, Galtrev, Ox-camp). That grouping for instances or skirmishes happens because you are unintended grouped inside a town, where you can see a lot of people there and it makes you think you are already part of a community. But if the town is smaller like it can be Echad Dagoras, Esteldin or Aughaire... The chances of grouping are quite smaller because there is not enough people around doing stuff.

About that concern (and to be honest, roleplaying is also involved) i want an Edoras epic big enough to make me stay inside the town for like 30 minutes doing stuff (not silly quests like carriyng a box, please...). It could be delivering items i found in the battlefields to vendors, blacksmiths, quest-guivers or any other. It could be just going to repair, going to buy potions, going to barter items and my favourite: Going to the main hall and ask the "wise people" of Rohan about important tips to play. (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...han.&p=5964770)

So... if you feel like me. If you want that Edoras needs to be bigger than Bree, please Sign this and change your signature so it shows:
WE WANT AN EDORAS BIGGER THAN BREE!.
or
QUITTING THE GAME IF EDORAS IS NOT BIGGER THAN BREE!.

That way i hope some of that signatures catch the eyes of some of the Turbine developers.

Thank you for reading.


Edit: It's possible that Edoras doesn't land with this Expansion, but that doesn't change the fact that developers can be already modeling the city, the suggestion is still here, the signature spreadout can be still useful. So please avoid that kind of comments about Edoras is not gonna be part of RoR, this petition will maintein regardless of when we get Edoras.

You want to spend all your time running back and forth between widely separated services past walls that are painted to look like buildings.

A common customer complaint about Bree is that it is too spread out. Pack it all together like what was done in Lhanuch, Gatrev and 21st Hall.

Extra unused space does not really do anything except annoy a lot of people. How many people use the area of Galtrev between the south gate and the center where all the services are? It was amazing how many people could not find the Draigoch quest giver to unlock the instance because they never are in the south part of Galtrev. Never go up and down that road.

Personally I do not really care as long as I do not have to run like you do in Bree. I never used Bree. Never spent any time there because it is too spread out.

Bree's not so bad, I think. Rivendell, on the other hand, seems a lot more obnoxiously spread out (especially the stables). CG is fairly annoying as well. It was fun to explore there the first time around and do the flet-runner deed, but I would have been annoyed if this was the end-game hub (wasn't around during this era, but apparently at the time people stuck with hanging out in 21st Hall). While Galtrev is certainly convenient, it does lack the feeling of being a genuine city. So, I'd like to see a town maybe a little smaller than Bree, but with the AH, crafting, training, rep areas spread out a bit around a central vendor square like in Galtrev. Having vault-keepers in both the AH and crafting area was a nice touch, as was having guilds available right there in the crafting hall basement.

I agree with Yula. I rarely if ever used the services in Bree because they were just too far apart. Even in the lower levels the Shire and Thorin's Hall was preferable because I didn't have to run from one end of the town to the other.

I don't mind having some space to wander around in for aesthetics but please bring all the services close like they have done in Galtrev and 21st Hall etc.

Signed!!!!!!! I want a running city the size of annuminas i found annuminas huge but deserted i want a city that big and running with npcs,twould be epic!

Originally Posted by bambubambubambu

I agree with Yula. I rarely if ever used the services in Bree because they were just too far apart. Even in the lower levels the Shire and Thorin's Hall was preferable because I didn't have to run from one end of the town to the other.

I don't mind having some space to wander around in for aesthetics but please bring all the services close like they have done in Galtrev and 21st Hall etc.

Well guys, you know, if you want that you can just be in Lhanuch, Galtrev or 21st Hall. We already have lot of that grouped NPC places in Lotro. I'm just asking for another place Different and not "more of this" that would make me feel like i know everything of Edoras in 5 minutes.

Don't miss the important part about Lotro, this was always about exploring middle earth. Not being sit down in a place where you can get everything if you just extend your hand.

Yes, i love bree because theres so many places to explore and nicks and crannies. Sure put all the qeusts in one place but then at least make the City huge with bustling npc activite that we can admire. I hope and pray that its a big city. I sometimes look at angmars castles and orcs and brigand castles that are huge and i say to myself truly there is no hope. Lets at least give us some big castles and forts that can slighlty make us feel like we contend with angmar. Also i think regular waves of attacks that can be defended by the cities would be awsome.


So again
SIGNED!

A Big city will be Big waste development time. Another ghost town where you will just visit the vault/forgemaster/Quest handins etc.

It's the same thing that has happened with every new major Quest hub in this game from the expansions, once there is a new one the previous one's become ghost towns as no one uses them or a lot less.

My main worry is that they learn from Lag/Galtrev and do not make it a nightmare due to client based lag

Originally Posted by 0Pinger

A Big city will be Big waste development time. Another ghost town where you will just visit the vault/forgemaster/Quest handins etc.

It's the same thing that has happened with every new major Quest hub in this game from the expansions, once there is a new one the previous one's become ghost towns as no one uses them or a lot less.

My main worry is that they learn from Lag/Galtrev and do not make it a nightmare due to client based lag

they become ghost towns because they are intended for only 1 purpose and when turbine change the hub to another landscape that purpose is over. Now if they make Edoras bigger than bree and all the next camps of updates and stuff are smaller, it's easy to suppose the people will be in Edoras instead of the new camps.

That logic is applied to "why the people were in 21st hall instead of Mirkwood Ost Galadh". If turbine developed it big, Edoras would be a more full of life town and not a ghost town to be honest. I encourage the developers find a way to make Edoras perfectly as a town, even with contest or Festival areas, that would keep people always going there.
Maybe even a swift from bree to Edoras. If we can guess Edoras is a Safe Town everyone should be able to go there (the price would be a lot of silver, and whenever the player left Edoras walls he would be agroed from too far and the enemies would kill that person in a second.) and enjoy the edoras new stuff or festivals. It's also a sneak peak of new cities for the new players, most of them stop playing about lvl 30 or 40 because they don't know how awesome the game will be in the upcoming levels. (I have friends that left for that reason and it's sad) Sidenote: The roleplaying would also keep people there.

Here's hoping not only that Edoras is big and filled with life, but that it has a room filled with cats.

Originally Posted by ScionofAngmar

Here's hoping not only that Edoras is big and filled with life, but that it has a room filled with cats.

lmao, 1 or 2 easter eggs would be funny xD

/not signed

Aside from the practical/quality of life issues of making it larger than Bree that have been stated above, I would point out nothing in the books seems to indicate Edoras was larger than Bree. In fact, I would suspect that an agrarian horse culture would not have very large settlements at all.

Originally Posted by Sthrax

/not signed

Aside from the practical/quality of life issues of making it larger than Bree that have been stated above, I would point out nothing in the books seems to indicate Edoras was larger than Bree. In fact, I would suspect that an agrarian horse culture would not have very large settlements at all.

True is this.... then lets us have many towns, because lets face it where did rohan muster up a huge army? Trust me not in Edoras but from all the towns and farms over Rohan. So as i would love Endoras to be big, I would love there to be many small settlements, farming communities and ect. ROHAN IS HUGE so please lets not have miles of empty pixles with like 5 farms that are gonna face all of Saurons might......
I would just hope its not just a quest hub but an area with intense culture of middle earth, not another ghost town with 10npcs that are apparently enough to stop the EYE!

Also....I'd be appauled to see Edoras turned into a Dol Dien. First, it wouldn't make sense, even in MMO logic. And second...well why? Helms Deep will definatley not the Hub and Dunharrow isn't an anticipated location albiet important, but Edoras is something we've been wanting to see since launch (I'd think.)

And size? I think the book mentions seeing hundreds of roofs. Besides, think about it. Eodras had a Garrison of a thousand men (more or less, I can't tell if Tolkien was being specific.) That's a thousand familys plus a thousand horses. Edoras would need to be huge to hold that many people/animals. And even if Bree was a 'hub' of sorts for Eriador, it was still smaller than alot of the Shire's towns I think. If Rhad_EU (the guy with the squirriel avatar) is online he should be able to answer this better

First of all, we're not seeing Edoras in 2012, so what's the point in talk?

Second, Sae seem to suggest that the city should be big in itself and I cannot argue. However, when placing facilities, a challenge will arise. Place everything too far apart like Bree and people will just use another hub where things are closer. Place everything in one tight spot and people will ignore everything else. Seriously, many don't even seem to know there are lower and upper levels to Galtrev - nobody's ever seen there. And how many do you think have roamed all around Caras Galadhon? Even if they make it a maze-like heave to explorer and add 20-40 quests taking place solely inside city itself, people will do that once and then move to facilities hub where they can spend weeks without leaving it and entering content through instance join.

Agreed, balance is SO hard in the world of MMORPG'S i feel for turbine=[

And such a city would be Lag-ville.

I would honestly love to see what turbine can do to create a massive city with architecture a bit more 'majestic' than Bree Town, but again, as said before, this would be unpractical.

Turbine would have to find a justification for such a large space (ie. quests), other than just going there to use the services; but the amount of quests one can do within a city without having the average player getting bored is limited.

So, a part of me agrees with you, but the more practical part of me thinks this is unlikely to happen.

Lagville as in lag caused by people or lagville as in layout and npc movement??? I actually dont think it is that hard to create a huge city or many towns, grant it it all takes work but the lag that would come would be from the players there not the npcs. Npcs and building dont cause much lag.

So in this case make it the size of bree at least=[]


I agree though about lagville but any new release becomes lagville instantly after a release. So i hope they take at long term approach and not just about the players opinion after the first 10secs[Even though that part is important too]. If your gonna be so worried about the new expansion at least lagwise, u might as well put all npcs in a little circle with quest with no city....=[

I just think that npcs give alot of life and so does background. I was awestruck when i first played game and touched foot on shire. Detail was so incredible, every npc i could stand at for 5mins and suck out as much info as i could. I found amoong npcs there were minnie stories that if you followed all over all inter-connected!

I just hope there is more of this cause i believe besides quest,grind,raids,and kins this other 1/4 is what makes the game amazing.

Sounds good to me - they could even fix housing at the same time by putting in some purchasable instanced housing (maybe cheaper if you're a man of rohan)? As it is I never visit my house in the depressing 'burbs.

Two birds - one stone.

So much to be done with so many expectations =p

Originally Posted by Saelyth

Well guys, you know, if you want that you can just be in Lhanuch, Galtrev or 21st Hall. We already have lot of that grouped NPC places in Lotro. I'm just asking for another place Different and not "more of this" that would make me feel like i know everything of Edoras in 5 minutes.

Don't miss the important part about Lotro, this was always about exploring middle earth. Not being sit down in a place where you can get everything if you just extend your hand.

I think maybe I was being too negative or you misunderstood me. I love exploring Middle-Earth. I really really want Edoras to be as accurate in size as can be interpreted from the books. Edoras should be unique. From what I can gather it was indeed much larger than Bree, and I would love to be able to explore a large detailed city with people moving around in it. I can't wait to see the houses, garrisons, and of course the Golden Hall.

Bree just seemed a little inconvenient from a services point of view, but I do love wandering around admiring the details.

My apologies, indeed i missunderstood what u meant. I though you just said you wanted all NPCs on same room and no need to develop the entire city, and i guess that made me mad.

This is what happens in forums, we can't understand the unique tone of our voices

Anyway... besides the response... i'm pretty sure my english lacks somewhere, if you find a typo, Tell me!!! hahaha so i can learn a bit of english in the meantime :P

Not signed.

Roughly the same size as Bree would do fine, especially as apart from Meduseld the architecture should be more drab. One simple wooden house with a thatched roof would look much like another.

/alsonotsigned

Maybe the same size. I'd rather them not waste valuable design time on something thats going to end up annoying me in the end.

Individual crafting halls would be nice, for each guild. Sick of lagtrev.

You can never win in an MMO. There is always going to be a population that expects X and others that expect Y and still more that want Z.

Bree was nice for a bit, but when you had to run everywhere, i.e. when it was 35 to buy your mount it was a little spread out. It is not bad but if the town was 2 or 3 times the size it currently is, I would not enjoy that at all.

I like the new central location because everything I need to use is close. Vault, crafting, Guild (Thank God for that), trainers, bard, etc can be reached quickly.

If you are honest with yourself, once you do all the quests in a city, you only use it for its services. Yes you might enjoy running about it once or twice finding the cat woman door or locations for deeds, but the purpose of the city is to provide the services.

So yes it would be great to see a city two or three times the size of Bree, but I want all the services near the stable master. That way I do not have to run trough the big empty city more than a couple of times to find all the quest givers.

I think many people would like housing within Edoras via instanced lanes etc.

DO ettt!

Originally Posted by Maxal

So yes it would be great to see a city two or three times the size of Bree, but I want all the services near the stable master. That way I do not have to run trough the big empty city more than a couple of times to find all the quest givers.

This is what I was thinking of, but said much better. Why can't we have both? A large city to explore with the services in one general area for convenience? Sure the novelty might wear off for each player after they've wandered around a few times, but there's going to be a new person to explore the area after it does.

well, this suggestion is just that, a suggestion. I'm sure turbine will develop Edoras (or already developed) exactly as they want regardless of us. But it would be really nice if Edoras is big... i could just run doing nothing through the entire city for hours. Like i actually do in Bree.

A town to do nothing but stare at the buildings or waiting for ramdom people to say hi, maybe team with them or just curious of who went that far.... Is this though so weird? not everything is meant to be useful.

/signed

.............................. ....

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

You want to spend all your time running back and forth between widely separated services past walls that are painted to look like buildings.

A common customer complaint about Bree is that it is too spread out. Pack it all together like what was done in Lhanuch, Gatrev and 21st Hall.

Extra unused space does not really do anything except annoy a lot of people. How many people use the area of Galtrev between the south gate and the center where all the services are? It was amazing how many people could not find the Draigoch quest giver to unlock the instance because they never are in the south part of Galtrev. Never go up and down that road.

Personally I do not really care as long as I do not have to run like you do in Bree. I never used Bree. Never spent any time there because it is too spread out.

I think this is more for the RPers. Turbine can make a nice big city but still have all the 'services' centralized into one location. Just because they make a nice big city, doesn't mean they have to spread the AH, vault, crafting hall and stables all in different locations.

I would like to see something like this, it may bring me back to play this game some more. All there is in this game right now is do quests then run instances. No new festival stuff. The 'preview' of the Treasure Hunt was more exciting than the release of the new instances. We need something to do in this game other than grind, grind and more grind.

16tiger16 who the #### are you and why did you suddenly steal my post?

I don't see why we can't combine some of these ideas. If they make Edoras larger than Bree then they can have a centralized area and then specialized areas for those of us with crafting guilds spread around the city. Make it into a real town. Multiple stables like Bree. Have like a festival type area in it and maybe an instanced housing zone for those of us who want Rohavion houses. I also like the idea of letting lowbies come explore. Some noob in bree just the other day hailed me so I sword saluted him and got a message going along the lines of "WOW THAT WAS AWESOME!" It also needs a taxidermist and a barber among other things. I mean I miss the trash vendors. It would be cool to see trash vendors actually sell random world trash each day. Or if nothing else some cosmetics vendors would be nice. I also wouldn't mind seeing a world cryer with random world events for defending it and so forth as well..

/signed

No thanks. I find myself avoiding towns which don't have very convenient access to services. I've never called Bree "home" for any length of time, on any character. Nor Rivendell. Turbine pretty much has to make Minas Tirith quite large when they get to Gondor, but I hope even there they put a full set of services near the primary travel hub. Only then will it become a significant social center for the game.

If Edoras is supposed to be a new social center for the "endgame", it too will need to have a full set of services, conveniently located. The town itself can be "large" just for effect, but most people will hang around the more "useful" parts of town.

Khafar

Why not make a certain *area* of Edoras accesable. There is no way Turbine is going to make a 1:1 scale replica of Edoras, and for people like me - who love Rohan - it's going to be a dissapointment, even if we know it can never happen. I think the illusion of a huge city can easily be done by opening an area the size of Bree and leaving the rest as a 'picture.' If you've ever played the Lord of the Rings Conquest (and if you're thinking about it then DON'T) you'd know that the battle of Pelanor Fields was done like that.

Originally Posted by Floin

Why not make a certain *area* of Edoras accesable. There is no way Turbine is going to make a 1:1 scale replica of Edoras, and for people like me - who love Rohan - it's going to be a dissapointment, even if we know it can never happen. I think the illusion of a huge city can easily be done by opening an area the size of Bree and leaving the rest as a 'picture.' If you've ever played the Lord of the Rings Conquest (and if you're thinking about it then DON'T) you'd know that the battle of Pelanor Fields was done like that.

i'd quit the game if they don't develop minas tirith but they add the city in a background far away. that would be totally dissapointing here.

Regardless to rohan, i don't how... Turbine announced they have more people for 2012, they can designate some of the new developers to help creating edoras.

The capital of Rohan is the hill fort of Edoras which is located on a hill in a valley of the White Mountains.

I can't see a fort being bigger than Bree. Just my 2 coppers.

Originally Posted by Rugongrod

The capital of Rohan is the hill fort of Edoras which is located on a hill in a valley of the White Mountains.

I can't see a fort being bigger than Bree. Just my 2 coppers.

A hill fort could easily be bigger than Bree, in area at least. I'm not saying that one necessarily was, but don't assume that a hill fort implies something small.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

A hill fort could easily be bigger than Bree, in area at least. I'm not saying that one necessarily was, but don't assume that a hill fort implies something small.

From the movies:


Edoras seems to be more on scale with Galtrev or even Lhanuch.

I like the layout of Bree it has that town feeling, and yes as levels progress you seek out new and more convenient places. Because quite frankly running back to the vault from the crafting hall then AH becomes quite annoying after some time.

Personally I like the there are multiple exit points, and the stable master there has a different set of destinations. The swift travel between the two is hardly an issue.

So, Edoras being the same size a Bree seems quite suitable. Have multiple stable masters one at each entry/exit point and all the basic services in arms reach of these stable masters. AH, Forge, Relic/Forge Master, Bard etc.
There is no reason why we can't have multiple services in the one town or city. For example it was good to see vaultkeepers in the Galtrev AH and Crafting Area.

As for specialised services like guild areas although convenient, it was disappointing to see in Galtrev them all just dumped into one room as if it was an afterthought. Actually most of Galtrev feels like that.

So perhaps as a compromise, basic services grouped together in multple areas, and guild services spread out. So it actually feels like a town or city not just an one area where everything has just been dumped.

Yes, I am being difficult I want the aesthetics of a town or city with everything in arms reach.

Make it as big as it needs to be but keep the services and stable close to each other. Rivendell is a no go zone because the stablemaster is too far from the bank.

Reminds me of UO where everyone hung around the west brit bank. Brit was huge but only one part was always in use and everyone hung out there doing everything.