Thread: Immediate skills should be IMMEDIATE. Not immediate AFTER 3s animation.

Or at least change the "Immediate" description. I feel like moron mashing my Shelob's Gift to get the heal ASAP, but I usually die on the horribly slow animation. Same goes for Charge...

Same thing with Field promotion... i'm at about 50% from first seeing visually that a teammate is being focused (ie before the health bar reflects it), to immediately hitting the bubble to seeing him die before the bubble goes into effect (and the skill goes into cooldown)

Warg attack speed is also Slow Motion compared to Burgs

By the time I can Swipe once...the Burg has hit me 4 times

reavers got destroyed by the change to immediate skills. used to be able ravage+gut punch relatively fast, now its like walking into a wall everytime i try to use gut punch. im lucky if it fires before i am out of melee range. same with disarm, the attack duration is insanely long. needs to be fixed

I really really really really really hope this gets changed back. I can't stomach playing reaver in its current, lame state.

They took an incredibly fun, fast paced class and turned it into a 'meh' class.

Recent combat changes were terribad and unnecessary, Fully agree with OP.

+1 agree :d

Originally Posted by 0987654321

reavers got destroyed by the change to immediate skills. used to be able ravage+gut punch relatively fast, now its like walking into a wall everytime i try to use gut punch. im lucky if it fires before i am out of melee range. same with disarm, the attack duration is insanely long. needs to be fixed

Agreed.

Originally Posted by harman097

I really really really really really hope this gets changed back. I can't stomach playing reaver in its current, lame state.

They took an incredibly fun, fast paced class and turned it into a 'meh' class.

Agreed.

Turbine pls fix this!

Originally Posted by aklouie

Same thing with Field promotion... i'm at about 50% from first seeing visually that a teammate is being focused (ie before the health bar reflects it), to immediately hitting the bubble to seeing him die before the bubble goes into effect (and the skill goes into cooldown)

Bubble + Snap!

For reavers, Charge! then hit gut punch.

Profit!

Originally Posted by Daec

Bubble + Snap!

For reavers, Charge! then hit gut punch.

Profit!

Considering the skills in question (and I see no-one mentioned Get A Grip!) are described as "immediate" skills, I hardly think it's viable or fair to have to pop two hotkeys when I only mean to use one; not counting, of course, the fact that it is a waste of what might be a precious split-second and, in some cases, an additional cooldown.

./Two cents

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

Considering the skills in question (and I see no-one mentioned Get A Grip!) are described as "immediate" skills, I hardly think it's viable or fair to have to pop two hotkeys when I only mean to use one; not counting, of course, the fact that it is a waste of what might be a precious split-second and, in some cases, an additional cooldown.

./Two cents

I have the two skills beside each other for that purpose on both classes, the time lost is negligible.

Agreed about Wargs feeling like slow motion at times, especially when compared to Burgs.

And I know they aren't skills, but I've always felt the creep stun/root pots are a little slow to get the job done. Is there a reason for this?

Originally Posted by Daec

Bubble + Snap!

For reavers, Charge! then hit gut punch.

Profit!

sucks that you can still get stunned/rooted/mezzed/feared even when you use charge+gut punch(you have to be targeting something that you can actually attack to even use this combo). i have used charge, then wondered why the hell i wasnt actually running, only to find out that i was rooted, even though the charge went off. (i had the runspeed buff, but of course i was rooted) even potting the root, thats still time wasted rooted, while using a skill that says you cant be CC'd at all.

Originally Posted by aklouie

Same thing with Field promotion... i'm at about 50% from first seeing visually that a teammate is being focused (ie before the health bar reflects it), to immediately hitting the bubble to seeing him die before the bubble goes into effect (and the skill goes into cooldown)

Bubble + snap is pretty effective.

Originally Posted by zaskoda

Recent combat changes were terribad and unnecessary, Fully agree with OP.

The change was made to limit combat fluidity, I'm guessing to stop skill combo's like above mentioned and unforseen dupes like Counter defence + addle.

Originally Posted by Untg99

The change was made to limit combat fluidity, I'm guessing to stop skill combo's like above mentioned and unforseen dupes like Counter defence + addle.

what exactly is the point in stopping ravage gut punch? or brutal clobber? yes, i know the change was to stop the burg addle exploit(which people still actually use, even if it is only in PVE), but it obviously wasnt a very effective solution, and it screwed up way more than it fixed. there ha to have been another way to stop exploiters.

I of course am assuming that champs are suffering the same problem with what i said above, although with everything they have, doesnt make a whole lot of difference to them im sure. with reavers, we are very limited in actual damaging skills, and ravage gut punch is the most effective. gut punch is also reavers interrupt, so of course it should cut through an animation and INTERRUPT whatever induction is taking place. sure, it is also used when there is no induction taking place, but i cant count the number of times i have missed an interrupt becasue of these changes. its rather annoying, and needs to be fixed.

Originally Posted by 0987654321

sucks that you can still get stunned/rooted/mezzed/feared even when you use charge+gut punch(you have to be targeting something that you can actually attack to even use this combo). i have used charge, then wondered why the hell i wasnt actually running, only to find out that i was rooted, even though the charge went off. (i had the runspeed buff, but of course i was rooted) even potting the root, thats still time wasted rooted, while using a skill that says you cant be CC'd at all.

You cannot be rooted while Charging, Charge does not remove root effects, if you were rooted and tried to charge, you'll just sit there, this has always been the case.

Charge and gut punch has the exact same effect as double tapping charge.

Originally Posted by Fawulf

Agreed about Wargs feeling like slow motion at times, especially when compared to Burgs.

And I know they aren't skills, but I've always felt the creep stun/root pots are a little slow to get the job done. Is there a reason for this?

Root pots i am uncertain of, but for stuns/dazes turbine for some reason has a 1-2s "recovery" state that you go into once you pot or even if you let the stun or daze run its course after the effect has worn off that hinders you for a bit longer.

Hi,
Yep totally agree..

I went on my spider for the first time in ages and I was appaled by the speed of Trapdoor! My god i hit it repeatedly but im usually dead before it activates, it doesn't activate or else It activates then some freep induction spits me out for some reason leading to a quick death..I hate it...

Also spider march takes ages to implement..not to mentiuon that irritating psychedelic warp effect when a spider does it..

Seriously though do you guys really think all the things that have been going wrong with the creep classes since ROI are accidental? I don't believe they are..Turbine are not stupid they know when they break something and they know what effect changes will have..I personally believe that the "Nerf" of creep mitigations and the increasing of skill activation speeds are intentional! Consider it a bonus for the freep community for those who bought ROI..an easy, quicker rank up for those who endulge in ettens..which is now basically a easter egg mini game.

we were nerfed on purpose and thats why Kelsen isn't saying anything.

Originally Posted by Ciaruk

we were nerfed on purpose and thats why Kelsen isn't saying anything.

This just in: Turbine is making news on the business front by introducing a new campaign to alienate and displease many of their paying customers in an effort reduce profits, industry experts are worried this may set a new trend in the business world.

More at 11.




Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ght

You seem to forget..

Turbine and kelsen don't regard creep classes or the players who play them as customers..we are glorified "NPCs"

The freep majority base are turbines customers and audience. By making creep classes in to nothing more than a game of "Intelligent" Duck hunt..They make their main freep base very happy..
Hence the "nerfs" were intentional to encourage more freep involvement in the ettens...Its basically the same principle that Primark use to draw in customers...Cheaper, easier cloths regardless of whether those cloths are made by chinese children chained to a sink...

freeps ranking faster due to easy mode=happy freep community

Originally Posted by Ciaruk

You seem to forget..

Turbine and kelsen don't regard creep classes or the players who play them as customers..we are glorified "NPCs"

The freep majority base are turbines customers and audience. By making creep classes in to nothing more than a game of "Intelligent" Duck hunt..They make their main freep base very happy..
Hence the "nerfs" were intentional to encourage more freep involvement in the ettens...Its basically the same principle that Primark use to draw in customers...Cheaper, easier cloths regardless of whether those cloths are made by chinese children chained to a sink...

freeps ranking faster due to easy mode=happy freep community

Many many people pvp in this game on both sides, some play exclusively in pvp (freep and creep), some do it to kill time between new instance clusters and raids.

So first off, why pay Kelsen at all? Whether you want to admit it or not, since he got here pvmp has gotten more attention than it has in a long time (if ever?).

Second, alienate creeps, they stop subbing (reduced profits) less f2p people try pvmp because there are no ranked creeps to help them along, so less creep classes unlocked, no bought skills (reduced profits) no creeps to fight means unhappy freeps who love pvp (reduced profits) some people who pvp between expansions get bored and cancel their subs until a new expansion (reduced profits).

Make no mistake Turbine is a business and are in the business of making money so this does not make any sense at all.

Take off your victim goggles.

Originally Posted by Daec

You cannot be rooted while Charging, Charge does not remove root effects, if you were rooted and tried to charge, you'll just sit there, this has always been the case.

Charge and gut punch has the exact same effect as double tapping charge.





Root pots i am uncertain of, but for stuns/dazes turbine for some reason has a 1-2s "recovery" state that you go into once you pot or even if you let the stun or daze run its course after the effect has worn off that hinders you for a bit longer.

except that roots put you incombat, so you shouldnt be able to use charge. i have used charge, used gut punch, and before i get the run speed buff, get rooted. i realize this is more of a lag issue than anything, but its rather ridiculous. and double tapping charge seemed to get the skill off much faster, never had the root happen while doing that. either way, immediate skills are screwed up.

yes, daze/stuns have the 1 second recovery state(yellow icon), however roots do not. if someone is experiencing a delay with root pots, then it may be related to this issue, and it may not

Originally Posted by Ciaruk

[...]Turbine are not stupid they know when they break something and they know what effect changes will have..[...]

That is an irrational assumption on your part, not supported by the facts in evidence.

Its very naive to think that Turbine does not have the same employment recruitment mechanic every other successful company has..Turbine's developers are very capable, employed to be very capable and are not amateurs..This I why I must consider that the changes or "Nerfs" afflicted to the creep classes are infact intentional....The devs would have balanced the ettens long ago if they, as you say, considered creep pvpers as paying customers..we are simply the beta testing mean by which freeps can enjoy "hit the nerf creep coconut to get effortless renown as it can't hurt you anymore."

Look freeps love to win and hate to lose...freeps love to win with complete ease..this is what the PVE main game is all about..comfort achievement..
Turbine clearly wish the freeps to experience the same in the ettens..to make them all feel like champions in fights that are clearly rigged in their favour..

makes the freep community feel good..if freeps feel good they complain less...good for turbines public relations image think

The changes to immediate skills were game-wide, not just to creeps.

It was done to improve server performance, which it certainly did.
We've been able to have 40 vs 40 fights on E without the server breakdowns we were getting for most of mirkwood.

I definitely agree that charge should fire at the start of its animation, not at the end. And disarm>thrash is really messed up by this change.

But fixes to those issues should come as changes to the class. I don't want to lose the server performance gains we've had since U5 launched.

Oh, server performance. I see, but at least skills such as Charge, Shelob's Gift ect. should have immediate effect.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

The changes to immediate skills were game-wide, not just to creeps.

It was done to improve server performance, which it certainly did.
We've been able to have 40 vs 40 fights on E without the server breakdowns we were getting for most of mirkwood.

I definitely agree that charge should fire at the start of its animation, not at the end. And disarm>thrash is really messed up by this change.

But fixes to those issues should come as changes to the class. I don't want to lose the server performance gains we've had since U5 launched.

where exactly did they write that?
I don't see how changes to the way skills work(it was done to prevent the burg exploit, didn't work obviously and just broke stuff) make the server work better?? they should upgrade the servers if that's the case not ruin classes.

Originally Posted by Ciaruk

Its very naive to think that Turbine does not have the same employment recruitment mechanic every other successful company has..Turbine's developers are very capable, employed to be very capable and are not amateurs..This I why I must consider that the changes or "Nerfs" afflicted to the creep classes are infact intentional....The devs would have balanced the ettens long ago if they, as you say, considered creep pvpers as paying customers..we are simply the beta testing mean by which freeps can enjoy "hit the nerf creep coconut to get effortless renown as it can't hurt you anymore."

Look freeps love to win and hate to lose...freeps love to win with complete ease..this is what the PVE main game is all about..comfort achievement..
Turbine clearly wish the freeps to experience the same in the ettens..to make them all feel like champions in fights that are clearly rigged in their favour..

makes the freep community feel good..if freeps feel good they complain less...good for turbines public relations image think

Until creep becomes an actual fully playable side (their own leveling and gear) this game will never have truly balanced pvp, so its not entirely Turbine's fault. Since creeps rely completely on turbine to provide them with their stats and what not, the issue of balance is very hard to address someone stated it in another thread.

Should creeps to balanced against the average geared freep? The best geared freep? What rank should creeps obtain this balance vs their freep counter parts? Some would say rank 6-7, but that is an easily obtainable goal, how should creeps progress after that? Should they continue being stronger until at rank 12 they are completely overpowered? Should the balanced rank be 9-10? Some would say that takes too much time (heaven forbid someone invest time in their character) that still leaves ranks 0-8 (a vast number of creep players) unbalanced vs freeps.

As well who doesn't like to win and hate to lose?

Big brother isn't out to get you, give it up.

/agree with OP

I almost feel bad every time I stun a Reaver well into their charge animation...almost.

Originally Posted by Rugba

where exactly did they write that?
I don't see how changes to the way skills work(it was done to prevent the burg exploit, didn't work obviously and just broke stuff) make the server work better?? they should upgrade the servers if that's the case not ruin classes.

Agreed 100%. With the OP as well.

Why always deal with the problems in the easiest way possible? Sometimes it's not the best solution. If there is an exploitable burg skill, rework that skill, don't just slow down immediate skills insanely globally. Thus mess up melee classes, especially creeps. Server performance? F2P is said to be a big success, I don't think Turbine lacks the money to upgrade servers.

Reaver, at least, is meant to be a fast, dynamic dual-wielding melee class. Now it's slow motion .. not only we have a slow follow-up Gut Punch to miss the opportunity to interrupt opponents, but even Dev Strike's animation is so slow an RK on low morale often just stuns me before the animation can execute, thus interrupting me and that's why I lose the fight.

Originally Posted by Daec

Should creeps to balanced against the average geared freep? The best geared freep? What rank should creeps obtain this balance vs their freep counter parts? Some would say rank 6-7, but that is an easily obtainable goal, how should creeps progress after that? Should they continue being stronger until at rank 12 they are completely overpowered? Should the balanced rank be 9-10? Some would say that takes too much time (heaven forbid someone invest time in their character) that still leaves ranks 0-8 (a vast number of creep players) unbalanced vs freeps.

As well who doesn't like to win and hate to lose?

Big brother isn't out to get you, give it up.

Turbine has placed 99% of creep skills in the store, available for 600TP(at most) each. Skills/traits purchased, in this fashion, ignore rank requirements.

Conclusion?

Turbine doesn't give a rats-behind about creep character progression, as long as you're willing to pay them ~$5 per skill you haven't earned.

Originally Posted by Daec

Until creep becomes an actual fully playable side (their own leveling and gear) this game will never have truly balanced pvp, so its not entirely Turbine's fault. Since creeps rely completely on turbine to provide them with their stats and what not, the issue of balance is very hard to address someone stated it in another thread.

Should creeps to balanced against the average geared freep? The best geared freep? What rank should creeps obtain this balance vs their freep counter parts? Some would say rank 6-7, but that is an easily obtainable goal, how should creeps progress after that? Should they continue being stronger until at rank 12 they are completely overpowered? Should the balanced rank be 9-10? Some would say that takes too much time (heaven forbid someone invest time in their character) that still leaves ranks 0-8 (a vast number of creep players) unbalanced vs freeps.

As well who doesn't like to win and hate to lose?

Big brother isn't out to get you, give it up.

...Says the OP mini....

Immediate (adjective)

1. having nothing coming between; with no intermediary;

A. not separated in space; in direct contact; closest; nearest
B. close by; near: immediate neighbors
C. not separated in time; acting or happening at once; without delay; instant

2. of present time

3. next in order, succession, etc.; next in line

4. directly or closely related: one's immediate family

5. directly affecting; direct; firsthand: an immediate cause

6. understood or perceived directly or intuitively: an immediate inference

Now, I click charge... and then 2 seconds later it works. And don't tell me gut punch or blood of fire after all the time. Change the tool tip to say "2 second animation, use Gut Punch or Blood of Fire in conjunction to get avoid being stunned" I can handle imbalance... I can't handle being lied to .

Originally Posted by Felajarko

...Says the OP mini....

That has absolutely nothing to do with nothing.

Agreed. Immediate skills should be immediate for both sides. I can't tell you how many times I've been chased by a raid, went to pop Sudden Defence and been hit with a stun or daze that interrupted during the 2 second animation before it actually happened. Then it sits on cooldown, despite it never actually having worked.

Uruk heal has been slow to cast since the beginning of time. No idea if this was intended or not. It's still mighty annoying though.