Thema: The RoR Hunter, Z_c feel free to comment

so what do you think will happen to the hunter with RoR and what do you hope will happen, and zombie_columbus im sure we all would like to get some sort of an idea as to what you plan on doing (not much though just something for us to build ideas on, nothing to specific).

Hopes:

split shot and hunters art get fixed, they werent a bad idea they were just done poorly

i would also like to see quick shot's induction removed and other than that the same as it is (though more dmg is always welcome)


Expecting:

ive only played lotro for a little over a year so im not used to how ZC works and since he hasnt said anything yet i have no idea what to say for this part

Hopefully better on the move

we're like the only class that has to stand still lol

^oh yeah that too

Quick Shot induction removal....never gonna happen. the induction time is the same as the duration between auto attacks. it is esentially an auto attack that grants us 1 focus, it does have a stance bonus, and improved version can grant an extra pip on occasion. that is all it is, and all it ever will be.

While Split Shot and hunter's art are not what we would like them to be, they weren't bad to see, new skills are always welcome, even if we feel they are lacking.

What do i really want to see, more communication from ZC (or if he is no longer with us, the new hunter guy).

Zitat von Laspher

Quick Shot induction removal....never gonna happen. the induction time is the same as the duration between auto attacks. it is esentially an auto attack that grants us 1 focus, it does have a stance bonus, and improved version can grant an extra pip on occasion. that is all it is, and all it ever will be.

While Split Shot and hunter's art are not what we would like them to be, they weren't bad to see, new skills are always welcome, even if we feel they are lacking.

What do i really want to see, more communication from ZC (or if he is no longer with us, the new hunter guy).

ZC said they tried removing the QS induction in early tests for the RoI skill updates and that it was a complete disaster that had to be scrapped.

I'm expecting to see a nerf (just following the trend here -_- )

But in all seriousness, a buff to survivability would be nice, perhaps another personal healing skill that is more useful than agile rejoinder? Or maybe allow us to block since wargs can seem to block, there are many things that make no sense, so, any buff is good for me.

Zitat von Dunskap

Hopefully better on the move

we're like the only class that has to stand still lol

I feel as though we are quite a mobile class if needed to be. We have a trait line that is designed to be able to move and still have active combat..

Ever since I have gotten the 5 set bonus from the Faron set I have been able to get 8-13 penshots while on the move.. In PvP this is great I actually like where hunters are at right now.
Quickshot induction removal would make it a bit to OP just think of how wargs had with claws. We would have alot more focus generation and on top of that QS crits for like 1700 so.. I have been using split shot alot lately.. Its not a terrible skill the radius just needs to be upped a little. It's nice not having to trait for arrow storm anymore .

To be honest, I'd like to see more options for the raiding hunter, which does single target dps. While the hunter has enormous flexibility and usefulness soloing, we don't bring a lot to the table for raids. When I play my RK in raids, I have a choice between roughly 6 skills in 3 different lines, or roughly (I'm not seriously going to count) 18 skills which do a variety of damage and debuffs. When I'm on my hunter, I have like...5-11 damage skills to use, depending on your rotation (I do not use heartseeker, hunter's art and merciful shot in raids, usually), not including buffs like Needful Haste.

I believe that the five-piece yellow set bonus could be a potential indicator of one direction our skills could go, that is, to provide some type of debuff to targets.

Also, I'd like to see other damage types for our arrows. But seriously, there's more that needs attention with hunters than something like that. :P

Zitat von Muzgakbash

I feel as though we are quite a mobile class if needed to be. We have a trait line that is designed to be able to move and still have active combat..

Yeah, -25% skill inductions and being rooted while a 2 second animation plays is totally "able to move and have active combat"

When you get out the bow, you might as well just stab a dagger in your own foot for all the "mobility" fleetness gives you.

About Split Shot and Hunter's Art being fixed/changed.
I understood that we can expect this with most soon changes to classes, so it should occur in Update 6 (Spring). RoR is scheduled for Autumn and it will more "expand" classes (for levels 76-85 and mounted combat) then "change" them. Of course, as seen with earlier expansions, some changes to what we already have will probably also happen with RoR.

Zitat von Muzgakbash

I feel as though we are quite a mobile class if needed to be.

This made me laugh.


You're right though. We can run for our lives if we need to. Otherwise, calling hunter a good DPS class on the move is completely wrong.

Zitat von Odin_of_Freyr

This made me laugh.


You're right though. We can run for our lives if we need to. Otherwise, calling hunter a good DPS class on the move is completely wrong.

I never said we were a good mobile dps class. I just said we can be a mobile dps class if needed. I mainly point this in a PvP aspect. I pop fleet with faron set and spam pen shot while kiting a warg or reaver and can usually kill them if I crit enough before fleet ends. Not saying I dont use my other skills but I have beaten a r13 warg with just penshot, and no the warg wasn't bad all my pen shots just crit and dev. When you brand + fleet and move u can beat any melee class while kiting. So yes hunters can be a mobile class. Now as in a reliable dps being able to move and run in a pve aspect why whould want to. Not much requires you to move and dps for a long period of time. So if you need to move you can still move and click pen/blood arrow.

So I still stick with my statement of hunters being able to move and dps.

the reason for movement in pve is for those moments when you need to fight an above lvl tough elite or better (with the roi gear this may be very easy i dont know)

I love the hunter as it , for pve world. Its fantastic to log unto a toon and know I can go to a raid without remembering 18 other skills, they meant for it to be a more basic playing toon, not that you cant do more,but its supposed to be a core dps , with ST dps in mind. I probably do more ST damage with my hunter then any other toon. I mean I love my champ and rk, but both have drawbacks, sure you can dps all you want on the move with the champ, but your constantly moving around to do so, while your chasing said mob across the screen or getting another mob off a squishy ect ect, hunter has arleady laid in to that said mob for a few thousand morale points.

I understand and can sympathize to a degree about those hunters who are going into the moors. Its a hard class to master there, I wouldnt want to do it, but Im also looking at the creepside of things, its so bloody hard to get kills as a creep, with more then 50% of the freeps being a op type class, I could see something for hunters, but please dont make it another champ, mini debacle. Its so terrible right now with what they have done with those two classes vs creeps, the moors is competly broken as is, I dont find it terrible fun right now, Ive given it a long break and when Ive gone back a few times , and lvl 55 hunters can hit me for 1k, while I can hit them for less then 1k on my warleader.

I guess this games pvmp just isnt for me, I wish it was more dynamic, more balanced and more interactive then it is (Man, you cant even scream a curse at your freep enemy.. whats up with that?)

I will just go with what I wanted to see added to the hunter class when ZC came up with the Isengard changes.

Here are the changes every hunter would have applauded you for, ZC:

Improved Campfire: Scaled appropriately. Removed induction. Now added +4000 OOC reg.
Improved Blindise: Changed to immediate.
Improved Purge Poison: Now fast skill Animation and animation root reduced to 0.5 seconds.
Improved Desperate Flight: +50% runspeed for 5 seconds. CD 2 mins.
Improved Burn Hot and Needful Haste: Animation time reduced and useable while moving.
Improved Bards Arrow: Now not depending on genus.
Improved Irritating shot: Fast skill, removed induction.
Improved Heartseeker. +1 focus
Improved Botr: Scaled appropriately
Improved Rain of Thorns: Reduced focus costs to zero.
Tracking Skills merged into one.

This is alle I need. Remove Split Shot and Hunter's Art while you are there and give us something new, maybe try harder or just delete them both and give us back the 700 silver we paid for it.

I don't know these are such simple things that every hunter would just love. Nothing really stunning or surprising but we hunter never needed to be flashy. Convenience is what we are looking for, convenient improvements for skills that are lacking for months and years by now.

I do not even have an idea how you could turn Split Shot and Hunter's Art into useful skills it just messes with your rotation without bringing anything to the table. Maybe if Split Shot added +2 focus all the time or a induction as long as QS. But with Hunter's Art I just don't have a clue. Even if you fixed the borked animation it still gives an effect in the only stance used at the moment that nobody needs at all, while dealing no significant damage at all. No mob B/P/Es at all when you are sitting at 4k finesse anyway, while the bonuses granted by the other stances are neglected by the time it needs to switch stances and the fact that precision stance is so incredibly more useful than the others.

Well as far as new skills go I would vote for a skill that gives us morale over time or by shots or crits we deal for a certain time. And a sprint of course, as seen above.

Zitat von VincentVanPort

I will just go with what I wanted to see added to the hunter class when ZC came up with the Isengard changes.

Here are the changes every hunter would have applauded you for, ZC:

Improved Campfire: Scaled appropriately. Removed induction. Now added +4000 OOC reg.
Improved Blindise: Changed to immediate.
Improved Purge Poison: Now fast skill Animation and animation root reduced to 0.5 seconds.
Improved Desperate Flight: +50% runspeed for 5 seconds. CD 2 mins.
Improved Burn Hot and Needful Haste: Animation time reduced and useable while moving.
Improved Bards Arrow: Now not depending on genus.
Improved Irritating shot: Fast skill, removed induction.
Improved Heartseeker. +1 focus
Improved Botr: Scaled appropriately
Improved Rain of Thorns: Reduced focus costs to zero.
Tracking Skills merged into one.

This is alle I need. Remove Split Shot and Hunter's Art while you are there and give us something new, maybe try harder or just delete them both and give us back the 700 silver we paid for it.

^ This. It's funny how many hunters are making good suggestions on the forums for months now and ZC just doesn't get the clue. Like, COME ON MAN WE NEED SOME LOVE

Great post Vincent, have +repped. Some comments:

Improved Desperate Flight: +50% runspeed for 5 seconds. CD 2 mins.
- DF should remain a port. I reckon this would be a separate skill.

Improved Burn Hot and Needful Haste: Animation time reduced and useable while moving.
- Possibly a bit OP.

Improved Heartseeker. +1 focus
- HS needs a revamp if it is to be used by non-red hunters. Not sure what this revamp should be though.

Improved Botr: Scaled appropriately
- Should give a small MORALE restore (like a miniature cappy mark) per hit as well as power.

Improved Rain of Thorns: Reduced focus costs to zero.
- RoT is a legendary already... perhaps move it to non-leg and make this the leg version?

Tracking Skills merged into one.
- YES.

Remove Split Shot and Hunter's Art while you are there and give us something new, maybe try harder or just delete them both and give us back the 700 silver we paid for it.
- Increase Split Shot radius to 5m. Make Hunter's Art less stupid or quicker.

Keep wishing, keep dreaming, it isn't going to happen. The way things are going I expect more "balancing" in Update 6, and by "balancing" I mean getting nerfed, more.

Zitat von VincentVanPort

I will just go with what I wanted to see added to the hunter class when ZC came up with the Isengard changes.

Here are the changes every hunter would have applauded you for, ZC:

Improved Campfire: Scaled appropriately. Removed induction. Now added +4000 OOC reg.
Improved Blindise: Changed to immediate.
Improved Purge Poison: Now fast skill Animation and animation root reduced to 0.5 seconds.
Improved Desperate Flight: +50% runspeed for 5 seconds. CD 2 mins.
Improved Burn Hot and Needful Haste: Animation time reduced and useable while moving.
Improved Bards Arrow: Now not depending on genus.
Improved Irritating shot: Fast skill, removed induction.
Improved Heartseeker. +1 focus
Improved Botr: Scaled appropriately
Improved Rain of Thorns: Reduced focus costs to zero.
Tracking Skills merged into one.

This is alle I need. Remove Split Shot and Hunter's Art while you are there and give us something new, maybe try harder or just delete them both and give us back the 700 silver we paid for it.

I don't know these are such simple things that every hunter would just love. Nothing really stunning or surprising but we hunter never needed to be flashy. Convenience is what we are looking for, convenient improvements for skills that are lacking for months and years by now.

I do not even have an idea how you could turn Split Shot and Hunter's Art into useful skills it just messes with your rotation without bringing anything to the table. Maybe if Split Shot added +2 focus all the time or a induction as long as QS. But with Hunter's Art I just don't have a clue. Even if you fixed the borked animation it still gives an effect in the only stance used at the moment that nobody needs at all, while dealing no significant damage at all. No mob B/P/Es at all when you are sitting at 4k finesse anyway, while the bonuses granted by the other stances are neglected by the time it needs to switch stances and the fact that precision stance is so incredibly more useful than the others.

Well as far as new skills go I would vote for a skill that gives us morale over time or by shots or crits we deal for a certain time. And a sprint of course, as seen above.

Nice list! Can we please add to this removing the induction on Press Onward? It still may not be the most amazing self-heal out there (and it can't compare to mini bubbles plus self heals), but hey I will take anything that will give me decent self heal as opposed to what we have now! Not to mention that this would make the skill feel much more legendary! I can still remember how disappointed I was when I first got this skill, got myself in a bad situation, and eagerly activated the skill to (I thought) save my butt. Instead, the induction was interrupted, I got no morale or power, and the skill went on cooldown. And I was left there dead and wondering why I had spent so much on a legendary skill that would only ever be useful when in a group.

From your list Vincent, my favorites are the Improved Campfire, Improved Irritating Shot, and merging all tracking skills. I also like the other poster's idea of incorporation a small morale return into BoTR.