Thread: Your LI will continue to grow with you

I wish!

My warden has l65 2A spear and javelin, each with 7 legacies, each with 5 majors.

Why isn't there a way for me to upgrade it to a l75 (and l85 at the Fall update)? It still doesn't make sense to me that every orc with a spear in Nan Curunir has a better one than mine. As the invaders of Annuminas always say "... But mine was the better weapon!"

Originally Posted by Tuco

I wish!

My warden has l65 2A spear and javelin, each with 7 legacies, each with 5 majors.

Why isn't there a way for me to upgrade it to a l75 (and l85 at the Fall update)?

because what would we do if we weren't grinding for new Li's?

Oh right, chicken runs and the moors that has no creeps anymore.

[/sarcasm]

i truly wish we had a more enjoyable system in place. the new mmo that shall not be named which has to do with wars in the stars lets people customize their weapons from what i hear, and those that play think it is what the LI system in lotro should have been all along.

The Legendary grind is primarily what has kept me away the last few months. I decided to check back and see if it has been fixed, but obviously not.

The legendary grind is quite silly as it is little more than a hamster wheel. I would much prefer a system that allowed me to invest just as much time as the current system carrying my item (skin), legacies, relics, and titles forward on a LI. In addition, I would PAY for the CONVENIENCE of SKIPPING some of that grind. I know they are making money selling LI stuff in the store now but I also know that it would not be hard to come up with a pricing strategy for a real legendary system that would provide similar (or quite frankly, more) revenue AND actually make people happy to participate in the the LI system. Everything on a LI should be able to carry forward (with work) - everything.

I guess it's easier to just keep the current LI system. It certainly doesn't bring any enjoyment to the game - which is really too bad given the missed opportunity to make people excited and attached to their weapons. Excited players keep coming back...

I don't mind a gear grind--but at least you can do that by playing the game normally.

The LI grind is spent at a relic-master, a forge-master, vault, AH, and the Turbine Store. Not the most engaging gameplay.

And take away ALL the lottery aspect. If you can't keep me playing without dangling the prospect of 6 pool A legacies in front of my face, maybe you need a new content design crew.

Can't they just copy the skirmish soldier system and work from there? I mean, anything is better than the current model. It should take a lot of work but it shouldn't be frustrating.

It's like building a card house in a wind Turbine (<-- Hah!), pointless.

I'm hoping that enough people will jump on this bandwagon that Turbine will take notice. While there may well be tens of thousands of people who don't care, I honestly believe that the vast majority of customers would prefer that their legendary weapons were truly legendary and didn't become obsolete every time they raise the character level cap.

I put a lot of time and effort, not to mention real money (pulled out the old credit card for Turbine Points) into having a Level 75 2nd age weapon for my main. I leveled up and broke down additional weapons, swapped legacies around, purchased some legacies from the store, refined shards and merged parts, ran countless skirmishes (which were fun but still!) and saved up the skirmish marks to buy multiple Greater Scrolls of Empowerment so I could have a weapon I truly cared about. Oh, not to mention running Draigoch (and enduring it bugging the first six times ... no exaggeration) for the Worn Symbol.

And now I can look into the Palantir and see some dumb fat orc dropping a level 78 3rd age that'll be better than the one I've poured myself into before it's even a year old.

I see a lot of complaints about LI's that I personally consider totally unimportant. Unless it's clownishly ugly I don't care (much) about the cosmetic aspect. I just want to know that when I find and assemble my very own *Legendary* weapon that it truly is legendary and won't be rendered obsolete by vendor trash.

I don't even see why it would be such a big deal from a programming point of view to make it possible to up the level of your weapon. Create a fifth relic slot. Create some kind of relic that when slotted would reset all the spent points, reset the legacy point ranges to higher values, and allow you to redistribute the points to get the weapon back to where it was with room to grow as you continue to play. Don't like the 5th relic slot idea? Come up with something different then, but Turbine, please, quit making us start from scratch. My beloved Highlander is already Highlander III. I just don't know if I want to go through all that again.

So post if you agree. The squeaky wheel supposedly gets the grease, and if we stay on topic with enough voices joining the chorus perhaps Turbine will relent and give us, the customers, what we want.

Here, Here. Totally agree.

There are a bunch of ways to have the LIs "grow with you". Some of those ways could be a lot of fun... which would be nice. The current system lacks that 'fun' aspect.

LIs that are at the same lvl as you are. You lvl up and take it to a forge master to bring it up to your lvl... for a price (not necessarily gold (but could be), but maybe a rare item/drop/relic. Allow this kind of LI advancement every lvl or two. That would be something to look forward to as you progress, instead of waiting until "end game" to really focus on your LI.

Please do something about this. The current system is an example for other developers as "what not to do", which is kind of sad. I like this game and would like this area to not be such a chore, but rather something to look forward to.

Originally Posted by Bub-Hosh

Can't they just copy the skirmish soldier system and work from there? I mean, anything is better than the current model. It should take a lot of work but it shouldn't be frustrating. .

Sure they could. Even back in 2009, when the Skirmish system arrived as part of Siege of Mirkwood expansion, we were told. Forget it not happening.

After F2P launched in Setember 2010 with the Lotro store, Turbine came up with the brilliant idea to make additional revenue by putting all kinds of legendary support products in the Lotro Store. Once this idea was approved, we can forget any changes to the system that would reduce Store sales.

Any suggestion that would mean that we would never have to buy another single use relic extraction tool, a scroll of empowerment to tier up a legacy, a legacy scroll is a non starter. You have better luck reached down with your bare hand and trying to remove a food dish that a hungry cat is eating out of. You might be able to take the dish with out getting slashed by the cat's claws.

I doubt you will see any Turbine employee make a public statement on how Turbine Points are spent each month on Legendary system products. Historically the relic extraction tool has been listed as one to the best selling items in the recommended list.

You are right, but there must be a way to give the players what we are asking for and keep the money coming from store. I mean, you only need to develop a system that allows you to advance your LI's with you. Maybe when you get your 75 to 85 some legacies get downgraded to lower tiers to scalete propoerly (thats just an idea), or maybe developing a new system allows to put on the sotre other items as needed (and optional) as the currently ones to keep the money coming.

I don't think it's too hard to develop a new system that gives players what they want without affecting the sales on the store

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

- Text -

They can always come up with new ways to milk cash from customers even with a system that actually allows you to keep your legendaries. At least it will feel that your investments pays off. For a long time I kept some of my alts from entering moria just to avoid the inevitable. In fact, I'm still tempted time and time again to discard my legendaries and just use normal crafted weapons. The name of the game shouldn't always be $$$ even though it usually is.

I don't think we'll see a change to the current LI system until the players take things into their own hands.

How can the players do that?
By boycotting the LI system and refusing to use it.

On my lvl 75 Hunter I have been experimenting with using a crafted Bow instead of an LI Bow.
I can kill landscape mobs just as fast with the crafted Bow as I can with the LI Bow.

However I was still using an LI class item while wielding the Crafted Bow.
(In my Hunter's case an LI offhand Sword)

Next step is to just use a crafted offhand Sword and see how I do.

Frankly I think if a large enough section of the player population suddenly stopped using LI's then Turbine would sit up and take notice. We MIGHT get an LI revamp then.

Problem is in convincing enough players that they can play the game WITHOUT LI's
It would be fighting an uphill battle on an iced over slope in the dead of Winter during a blizzard to convince a large enough part of the player base for Turbine to take notice. Therefore I doubt we will ever see a change to the LI system.

I for one refuse to grind beyond a 3rd Age LI from now on for any of my characters.
Just not worth the large amount of effort it takes to get a perfect LI when we all know the next expansion it will get thrown away. NO THANKS!

Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

the new mmo that shall not be named which has to do with wars in the stars lets people customize their weapons from what i hear, and those that play think it is what the LI system in lotro should have been all along.

Given how much Turbine has been blatantly ripping off that game recently, there might be some hope for exactly such a system. Here's hoping!

People really need to stop flogging the dead horse that is 'LIs will grow with you". This is something Turbine said when they were developing (and hyping!) the LI system and people took their own meanings from it. Unfortunately the system did not live up to every ones expectations but then again this was always destined to be the case. Despite the complaints I have yet to see many decent ideas on how the system could be further improved.

People will not boycott LIs simply becuase they are a great way to incraese the potency of our charcaters. We all like to get new gear, level up, rank up a virtue etc. so asking people to not use the LI system is stupid. Why would you want to make your character sub-standard?

The fact that we have to decon our LIs is no suprise really and is no different from having to throw away L50 items when the level cap was taken to 60. I would argue that obtaining something like the 'captain's arm' required significantly more effort and grind to get at L50 than it does for your average player to get a L75 second age weapon and put some decent legacies on it. Furthermore the later can be done entirely solo (will need to buy a symbol off AH but they are cheap) while the decent L50 weapons mostly required groups (ok there were some nice crafted pieces). Relics and IXP are so easy to get now as stoneheights can be soloed by most classes (watch for this to be nerfed!). OK scrolls of empowerment are a bit of a grind now but most people have loads of marks saved up anyway so maxing out a LI is still very quick

Bottom line the LI system is actually quite good and you should be thankful that it exists. I think it offers people lots of flexibility in how they play their class as switching between weapons both in combat and between fights (depending on your spec) really allows people to get the most out of their characters and makes the game more involving and fun. Furthermore the LI game can be played equally by both the solo player and the raider. Currently, 2nd age LIs are freely available to all via grouping or soloing however 1st age LIs are reserved for the T2 raiders who are the ones who really need them. Seems reasonable enough to me

Its not a perfect system by any means but I really think people should be thankful for what it does offer.

Originally Posted by Bub-Hosh

They can always come up with new ways to milk cash from customers even with a system that actually allows you to keep your legendaries. At least it will feel that your investments pays off. For a long time I kept some of my alts from entering moria just to avoid the inevitable. In fact, I'm still tempted time and time again to discard my legendaries and just use normal crafted weapons. The name of the game shouldn't always be $$$ even though it usually is.

What Yula is saying is they arent going to change a system which would result in less store sales. The only way Yula would be wrong is if infact the give the op what he wants and produce a scroll for sale in the store that upgrades the weapon you have to the DPs settings of the next level cap item. That’s not out of the realm of possibility.
Careful what you wish for.

I think its important to keep in mind a theme that runs throughout the game: the sweet-spot. LotRO penalizes overreach, and lends a hand to those who stray behind.

You’re simply not going to be able to hang your hat (or helm) on a single Legendary Item. The game is designed to keep you chasing and to keep you engaged.

As an example, what you get for deconstructing a maxed-out lvl75 sword is not likely to be much better than a similar lvl75 sword that was thoughtfully designed and maintained without resorting to outside resources like skirmish marks or turbine points.

The benefits of grinding in LotRO are limited, and I’m glad because ‘grinding’ as the name implies is not fun. A game that focused on and rewarded serious grinding is not one I would want to play.

Whats not cool is staring at a lot of wasted effort, and since the game sells the idea of LI’s as if we’re talking about a single item, its understandable if people feel they’ve been encouraged to go that route only to realize they’ve dug themselves a hole.

My advice to the average gamer is to find the sweet-spot. Maximize and augment those LI stats most important to you, not as much as possible but as much as is reasonably possible, and then move on.

My solution is this:

Turbine should simply allowed the base damage of an LI to increase over time. The key difference between the lower and higher level LIs of the same age type is their base damage output. Everything else like legacies and relics can be fine tooned (yes i meant it spelled this way ) through the use of the Lotro Store and normal game play.

I personally wouldnt allow a latter age weapons to be reforged into earlier age versions. From a lore perspective the fundamental crafting processes of weapons forged from the earlier ages should be so superior that reforging a latter age weapon to the quality of an earlier age one would be impossible without completely destroying the more recently made weapon in question!

Therefore, earlier age LIs should always be superior to those of later ages!

But there should be no restriction in advancing and improving any LI weapons within their age!

My two coppers.

Welden

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

we can forget any changes to the system that would reduce Store sales.

There's nothing more to add, that's the simple and clear truth. It's not the devellopers who decide anymore, it's the commercials. "Free" to play model condemns any kind of creative future to oblivion. I have lost hope.

I recently acquired my first legendary weapons and started building them. I was somewhat shocked that they were actually less powerful than the crafted weapons I was using. However, I saw the potential in building them into better and interesting weapons as I progressed.

Still, I wondered how long it would take to make them not only better than my current crafted weapons, but better than my next level of crafted weapons. I am still in the stage of learning how to build these weapons with the limited resources to make changes. I don't have the desire to level myself and my weapons as quickly as possible and don't want to get to end game either. That means, I guess, that I am enjoying the process, just as I have enjoyed exploring the world.

I guess you could say I am happy in my ignorance at this point. I hope that by the time I reach the level that most of you seem to be that I will either see the LI situation differently than you or that the system will have changed by that time.

Please realize that I am not aguing for or against any of the points made here, I am only giving my impressions as a player reaching this stage for the first time.

Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider

Bottom line the LI system is actually quite good and you should be thankful that it exists. I think it offers people lots of flexibility in how they play their class as switching between weapons both in combat and between fights (depending on your spec) really allows people to get the most out of their characters and makes the game more involving and fun.

You and I could not disagree more. The LI grind is why I left the game. I'm not playing any more, and I have a lifetime sub, so it would not cost me anything to come back. I am just tired of that grind.

I have a suggestion:

Your LI levels with you, in other words, the XP you get from quests and whatnot also goes to your LI. Your LI will have a max level of 50, no Scrolls of X Delving anymore (just solved that problem :P). Each time your LI levels up, you get 1 legendary point. This is a currency, so it is not bound to the weapon you earned it from. That legendary point can be spent on: ranking up legacies and buying legacies (the option to get legacies from "trash LIs" is still an option though). Each time you level up, so does your LI (it's equip level, not the item level), its damage range would also increase as well. The cost to buy/rank up legacies increases the higher rank it is. The effect of a legacy is related to the equip level, so ranks 1-3, for example, could be for minimum levels 50-55, and so on. This means that if you rank up a legacy above your level, then it costs more, just like skirmish traits. Except that it does not cost less if it is below you. This also eliminates Scrolls of X Empowerment because the legacies all cost the same per rank (a few points, increasing as I explained earlier). Major legacies would be more expensive, and Minors would cost less. The cost would not increase as the rank increases. Buying legacies would be at least 2x the cost of ranking them up.

Relics would remain largely unchanged, except that you can increase their tier until rank 7 (non crafted of course), so you can't buy Unique, Extraordinary, and whatever the "special" level relics are.


If the above isn't good, at least make Legendary Points a currency that is not bound to the weapon it is earned on!!!!!!