Thread: Level Cap to 85?

Originally Posted by Jarryd

.. no cap means you level, until you can't level anymore.

Ahhh, thanks for the clarification. What you're asking for is no "imposed" level cap, because in essence there would still be a cap, based on your level in comparison to the highest-mob level. My understanding of "no level cap" is a game where nothing ever turns gray, everything is always aggro, and you improve your character in ways that don't have to do with traditional leveling. Sorry to disappoint, but in your scenario I would still choose the imposed cap. Because without it, as soon as new, higher level mobs and quests were introduced, they'd be too low of level to be interesting and engaging. And in the meantime, there'd be far fewer challenging activities to choose from.

Originally Posted by Twitcheetwitch

I'm amazed. We're getting a huge new expansion to the game with new content and new gear, and half the people on this thread don't like that? You've got to be kidding me.

To the complainers: why are you playing LOTRO? Go find a game you enjoy, if new content and levels are such a bad idea.

Really, this is one of the more astonishing threads I've seen. Proof, if any is needed, that some people will complain about anything.

Originally Posted by Twitcheetwitch

Not at all. I get that people don't want to have to go through another ten levels in order to get to the end game content they obviously care the most about, and they don't like having their hard won gear not be the best in the game any more. But for those of us who don't want to play the same raids over and over and over again, new landscapes and new storylines are a welcome thing.

If you want to run the turtle raid in Moria for the 30th time, the solution is simple. Once you get an alt to the appropriate level, don't run any more quests with them. Save them for the on-level group content you enjoy.

I stand by what I said: if someone sees the normal questing/exploration routine as a grind, and if it's become a chore, why are they playing? When the day comes that LOTRO bores me, I'll take a break, not demand that Turbine stop releasing new content. When they stop releasing new content, it'll mean that the game is no longer generating profit, and there'll be no end-game raiding for anyone.

You can get new content without raising the cap. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.

For instance:

New L75 raid in RoR--drops new, better armour set and barter items for new, higher DPS/rating 1st age LIs.

Add some new drops to ToO and Draigoch (LI support items, recipes) to make them attractive to run.

Add new zones with new, fun quests and new reputation factions. And possibly interesting rewards. Tie new skills to rep levels or solo class quests.

Options.

Instead, old content gets made obsolete, and we're at the whim of developers deciding if and when to scale obsolete instances. We'll have to do the same landscape quests, anyway, but there's no impetus to make them fun or give any interesting rewards, since people will have to do them to level.

I realize this is par for the course with MMOs, but since this is my first and only, I don't feel like I should clam up and accept the status quo when there seem to be better ways to go. Is it really true that people would stop playing if there were no levels? Even if content got noticeably more difficult and gear noticeably better? I get that MMOs are powered by addiction, but it seems like there are plenty of other avenues by which to feed them other than the shiny animation when you go from L75 to L76.

Originally Posted by Frisco

You can get new content without raising the cap. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.

For instance:

New L75 raid in RoR--drops new, better armour set and barter items for new, higher DPS/rating 1st age LIs.

Add some new drops to ToO and Draigoch (LI support items, recipes) to make them attractive to run.

Add new zones with new, fun quests and new reputation factions. And possibly interesting rewards. Tie new skills to rep levels or solo class quests.

Options.

Instead, old content gets made obsolete, and we're at the whim of developers deciding if and when to scale obsolete instances. We'll have to do the same landscape quests, anyway, but there's no impetus to make them fun or give any interesting rewards, since people will have to do them to level.

I realize this is par for the course with MMOs, but since this is my first and only, I don't feel like I should clam up and accept the status quo when there seem to be better ways to go. Is it really true that people would stop playing if there were no levels? Even if content got noticeably more difficult and gear noticeably better? I get that MMOs are powered by addiction, but it seems like there are plenty of other avenues by which to feed them other than the shiny animation when you go from L75 to L76.

I fully agree with you.

I really wonder why they actually decrease the amount of endgame content with each expansion instead of adding to it.
With seemingly less money to spend on new content (or priorities set differently), it seems to me there is less to do, comparing moria with RoI.
If they want to go for level cap increases, fine, but then they should provide a mechanism to scale old instances and the corresponding armour sets, as well as show a REAL character progression. Simply slapping on 10 new levels and increase DS number by 10% isnt exactly exciting..
That way the game actually would gain in attraction with each expansion, since new choices would be added, instead of removed..
There also isnt any reason against multiple armour sets at the same level. There are enough possibilities for diversity, with different stat focus and set bonuses, allowing for a great number of interesting setups and choices.

I'm confused by the 'have to get new gear' argument. Is it implied if Turbine had developed a new raid with some gear that was only incrementally better than the current top gear that raiders wouldn't be grinding that to a halt until they got all spec'd out again?

If they're going to give us new end-game content, I would much rather enjoy a sense of accomplishment (levelling, titles, e-peen, whatever one chooses) to go along with it, especially if I'm forking over my hard-earned cash.

There's always going to be a grind associated with this style of game. If you don't like it, go play CandyLand. That will keep you entertained for an hour, the first time you do it.

To be honest, the grind from 65 to 75 was probably the shortest 'grind' of all the incremental level cap increases. Save up all the quests, do them all that are in a close proximity to each other, turn them all in, rinse and repeat. It goes rather quickly.

As for adding more skills besides 'Improved' ones, I already have skills I don't use in my attack chain because there are better options for my playstyle. I don't feel the need to have to cycle through every single power every encounter. Once you fill up your attack chain, gambit, or whatever one has or calls it, then you're only switching out skills, you're to the point of saturation in your fighting style. And people want to add more skills that will increase the number of skills I don't use? I fail to see how this is a 'benefit'.

Numbers getting bigger, whoopty doo. Just use your Lvl 75 tricked out gear until you find something that will replace it. As stated in my opening remarks, if they were to create new instances/raids that had better gear, you would ditch your current gear anyways. I don't see the problem with this.

They'll be getting my money as soon as pre-ordering gets green-lit

I think what's so frustrating is that it seems like they unfurled the RoR too soon. If they had unveiled it around July and the release day was October like our last expansion people wouldn't be chewing their finger nails. Rather they would be happily working on gear and quests not knowing the more definitive release day that is impending as they turn in for their Orthanc gear (and not subconsciously thinking about scrapping it at the same time).

To reach level cap is one thing but to actually feel accomplished for a good length of time without knowing when it's going to be worthless is something that people value at the current level cap.

For me, the journey to whatever the level cap is fun but I'm an end-gamer and the journey doesn't stop there. There's always places to revisit and wanting to go back to something old with a new challenge (i.e. soloing Carn Dum or the ability to duo Northcotton Farms to help a friend out when no one else will). Not to mention that at end game, the hardest content is also a fun option when you get to run and figure it out next to your companions rather than not being at level cap and not having those options.

I don't think that the level cap being raise is too soon (afterall they gave us about a year) but I think that the new expansion being unveiled too soon makes it seem like they are rushing it. It makes me wonder if they're really giving the new expansion (that I will inevitably pay for) the best thought and best work the players of the game deserve to have out of the expansion.

Originally Posted by Nehl

I think what's so frustrating is that it seems like they unfurled the RoR too soon. If they had unveiled it around July and the release day was October like our last expansion people wouldn't be chewing their finger nails. Rather they would be happily working on gear and quests not knowing the more definitive release day that is impending as they turn in for their Orthanc gear (and not subconsciously thinking about scrapping it at the same time).

To reach level cap is one thing but to actually feel accomplished for a good length of time without knowing when it's going to be worthless is something that people value at the current level cap.

For me, the journey to whatever the level cap is fun but I'm an end-gamer and the journey doesn't stop there. There's always places to revisit and wanting to go back to something old with a new challenge (i.e. soloing Carn Dum or the ability to duo Northcotton Farms to help a friend out when no one else will). Not to mention that at end game, the hardest content is also a fun option when you get to run and figure it out next to your companions rather than not being at level cap and not having those options.

I don't think that the level cap being raise is too soon (afterall they gave us about a year) but I think that the new expansion being unveiled too soon makes it seem like they are rushing it. It makes me wonder if they're really giving the new expansion (that I will inevitably pay for) the best thought and best work the players of the game deserve to have out of the expansion.

I agree that they could have waited longer. I wanted to see the pre-order go live the day it was announced. I understand your point about the gear, but, to me at least, the gear is only temporary at any stage of the game. You go until you find something better, whether it's through a level increase or the latest and greatest raid gear.

Did they announce the next expansion too early? Probably. Is the pending assault on the rest of Middle-Earth from Mordor going to stop me from stepping out into the world? No.

Maybe I'm unusual but I quite like a level cap increase complete with weapon and armour grind. Already with the current content I'm getting to the 'shall I level up a new toon' stage because I don't have much to achieve with my current ones.

What I do have a problem with is it being 10 levels. That's massive in this game and totally renders previous content obsolete as anyone that has stepped into OD with a group of Lvl 75 raiders will testify.

The lvl 60 raids were still hard at 65, especially for those without end game raiding gear. Hard, but achievable. It meant people who don't raid much had the challenge of taking on some end game content that was still difficult. The hardcore raiders had the lvl 65 raids to master so they were happy too.

Tower of Orthanc on T2 will still be hard if run by a raid of lvl 80 players but will be too faceroll at level 85 (maybe not Saruman).

A 5 level cap increase effectively doubles the amount of end game content, and keeps some of the current armour / jewellery worth having for all but the most elite kinships. 10 levels is just annoying and really limits a lot of the appeal of the game.

very true. RoI having been only 5 levels, and RoR adding another 5 would have been a good compromise.
That way the not so hardcore raiders get to experience the formerly highend content made a bit easier by having 5 more levels themselves, while there are still enough players wanting to play that content.
The only reason the moria instances are run now seem to be because of class quests or easily obtainable moria tokens luckily now barterable across the account, while the armour sets themselves are an important stepping stone towards the further leveling up to level cap..

Originally Posted by Vellrad

I don't get it.
What will happen with your gear after cap increase?
Will it get nerfed? Destroyed?
I mean, we all know, that when they release new content, all items are going to be better than existing ones.

This depends on your definition of "better." When the new raid and instance sets were released shortly after the Draigoch gear was made available, I went through the effort of earning one set for my minstrel, equipped it and thank goodness I kept my Draigoch gear because this new stuff was not near as good for my build as what I had. I am still using stuff from the Draigoch expansion (drawing a blank and can't remember what that update was called) because, to be honest, you couldn't pay me enough to use the gear and jewels from the last two updates....

I think a large problem isnt so much lvling but the lack of anything to do once we lvl.SoA we got to 50 we had a raid and multiple 6man instances and inside a year we had another raid and more instances.Then with MoM we had 6 6man instances and a raid.within a year we had another raid,another 6 man,multiple 3 man instaneces.Now for the past 2 xpacs the theme has been to launch with a single raid and little group content then to slowly release content.We have a raid,2 6 mans,and 3 small fellowship after 8+months with nothing so far as we know coming.You could say we have skirmishes but I think most of us have beat those to death seeing as they are the same ones we've had for years.It aso hasnt helped that so much of the content has been buggy or broken.Running Dragon is 50/50 gamble that it will bug.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel666

very true. RoI having been only 5 levels, and RoR adding another 5 would have been a good compromise.
That way the not so hardcore raiders get to experience the formerly highend content made a bit easier by having 5 more levels themselves, while there are still enough players wanting to play that content.
The only reason the moria instances are run now seem to be because of class quests or easily obtainable moria tokens luckily now barterable across the account, while the armour sets themselves are an important stepping stone towards the further leveling up to level cap..

You don't even need them for class quests any more. I was looking forward to helping out a friend with her cappy quest and she just ended up getting the HoH capstone without ever needing to run FG. So sad.

Originally Posted by Frisco

You can get new content without raising the cap. Not sure why this is a hard concept to grasp.

It's not hard to grasp, it's hard to see the point of. I played through the Great River with my level 75 minstrel, but I only stuck with it because I found an alternate growth goal of gaining rep with the men of Stangard, so I've tried what you suggest. I'm not too fond of it, honestly. I'd rather keep my character moving forward. After awhile, simply improving stats or reputation just doesn't do it for me, and for a good many other players too, I'd imagine. The character feels stagnant if he's stuck at a level cap with no option of continuing to move forward.

I think Turbine should do away with the level cap entirely whether it be for our characters or for our LIs. (Turbine should also offer us a way or alternative ways to upgrade our existing gear but prolly best through crafting so the crafters have more to do.)

The only thing that should be the limiting factor in leveling is the experience gain from doing quests and mob kills alike. As we
outlevel the quests and the mobs in each new area - that xp gain becomes less and less until it is practically nonexistent and our leveling stops or at least so until the next update comes along with higher level guests and higher level mobs.

What if leveling was looked upon more as a consequence of game play rather than the focus and the focus was put more on exploring and experiencing Middle-earth in all its mystique and grandeur. As we make our way to Mordor and each new area becomes more dangerous than the one before - are we not grateful for our experience gain that allows us to
defeat and conquer what lies ahead?

Therefore, we play...we level...and we level to prepare for what lies ahead! So, as long as the challenge steadily increases as we head to Mordor (as it should) then the challenge should be our focus and the leveling aspect should simply be a measurement of our increased abilities to meet and defeat that challenge!

Welden