Thread: New PvMP map too?

I'd be game for some sort of Battle of Helm's Deep zone that functioned a lot like an instance (must warp to it, not part of the landscape).

This way, the Creeps get a new map, we all get to fight at an epic location, and it fits in the lore. It also opens up the possibility of being able to use Helm's Deep Landscape twice, once for the PvE (primary) zone, and a second time for the PvMP zone - so Dev time is reduced.

I do hope we get a new PvMP map, something like the banks of the Anduin, as it is said the east banks are crawling with orcs, BUT I do believe that sometimes ettens can a be a bit... sloppy, Freeps take EC bridge, Creeps hide inside TA, pop out, shoot a few arrows, hide again, rinse and repeat, We need somewhere with NO buildings at all, something where nobody can hide, just fight for survival, a sort of "hunting ground" where raid can battle in the open field, something where a raid doesnt just blindly go in, kill tyrant, win, run out. somewhere where battle tactics actually work, i.e. Heavy armor at the front, the hunter and Loremasters at the back etc and also I agree with the idea to use ettens for lower ranks, and once... lets say you get above rank 6 your able to go into the new area but either block Ettenmoors above r6 or make it so r6+ cannot kill there, as all you would get is people higher ranks killing those lower ranks just because they can and for the hell of it and stopping the younger ones going into the new area.

Ah, and for the open field battle thing, anyone who is defeated cannot retreat/be rezzed unless the whole raid/fellow are out of combat i.e. when the fight is over.
I think this mode of PvMP would allow users to use their immagination more than the usual drills of going in and killing boss, such as planning flanks and have cavalry with mounted combattants etc.

Just putting my ideas out there

Originally Posted by Beastnas

Definitely need a new PvMP map, maybe I'll take this game seriously again.

Personally, I hope they completely gut it and start over from scratch. Let players keep/get appropriate rewards for the effort they put into it, but seriously, screw the Moors. At least from a Freep perspective, it's a pointless waste of time. Make it a Creep PVE zone, and be done with it.

They have their fledgling group finder, they have the skirmish technology, why not just take those to the ultimate conclusion and get some battlegrounds going. It would certainly be better than just another day of playing patty-cake between OC and the rez circle which just ends up being small amounts of PvP in between large amounts of hiding behind NPCs.

OK. So we get a new map.
Does that mean the old one is scrapped?
And if so - Will it be as good?
And if not - Will that mean split PvMPer's? I mean its hard enough to get one map full of fighting pep's. Imagine trying to get two maps full enough to have a decent battle?

Juries out over here....

For christ sake are you creeps actually out there playing? What the hell is a new map going to do for the PvP? Its going to prolong the current problem of balance. You get a new zone and 3 months later you'll be in tears again on the forums about balance.

No new maps until creeps are fixed to combat the uncapping of freep stats for ROI. this is what is killing PvP in lotro, yeah it would be great to have a new map but fix mitigations, give creeps higher buffs with the battlefield promotions then put in a new map.

Do it all at once that would be ideal but dont loose sight of the bigger issue here just because of some PvE release announcement. The map is a smaller part of a larger PvP problem.

There will always be imbalance and issues in PvMP. The balance shifts basically every patch.

Regardless, the gameplay is FUN which is why many of us have been playing so long. Things have and will change over time. The newer players may see and complain about the current state of balance, and may not be so tired of the Moors yet.

However, fighting in the same small region of Middle-earth for years is wearing a bit thin for most of us. This region is the one thing that has changed little over time, and is quite frankly boring. It's time for a new PvMP map. There is so much potential.

Originally Posted by Beastnas

There will always be imbalance and issues in PvMP. The balance shifts basically every patch.

Regardless, the gameplay is FUN which is why many of us have been playing so long. Things have and will change over time. The newer players may see and complain about the current state of balance, and may not be so tired of the Moors yet.

However, fighting in the same small region of Middle-earth for years is wearing a bit thin for most of us. This region is the one thing that has changed little over time, and is quite frankly boring. It's time for a new PvMP map. There is so much potential.

Potential doesn’t equate to reality.

So we get a new map and just forget about mitigations? Or does the new map include a mitigation fix as well? So now the topic expands to “we want a new map, and we want mitigations fixed” let’s assume we get both of those things. Freeps level to 85, higher dps Li’s improved gear, better potions, new crafted food.

We don’t get a rebalance, it’s time for a new map right? So now we are running around a new map, same capabilities (well save the mit fix) we had pre ROI and the freeps now have increases due to the PvE changes. I’m not getting the value here, are you assuming that a new map = enhancement for creeps? If you are fine, I haven’t seen that equated thus far but for me I’d rather we continue to harp on balance particularly given the fact a new PvE enhancement is pending. Freeps will become more powerful than they are. I don’t have a problem with dying and I think the game play is ok sometimes but we are bumping them to 85 and creeps want a new map?

Shouldn’t we be aiming a little higher here?

They would be better served making smaller battle zone instances. Yeah I know people hate them but Turbine has had almost 4 years to fix the imbalances with PvP and have only been slightly close for maybe 3 months, other than that it has been horribly broken.

They gave up on PvP years ago, so I really dont see the reason why people are surprised when there are no real updates to it, beyond cosmetic stuff or fluff.

Until they allow F2P freeps in the moors it is a non issue. The only really logical thing I could see if they decided to give another moors like map is they make the Moors like it was originally. Where a level 40 had a chance to compete slightly. So therefore the creep side would have to be capped at maybe 50 with some contingencies. But as I say them trying to balance that along with a new area is beyond Turbine's capabilities. But if they opened the Moors up to everyone with these new guidelines it would probably stay fairly active.

But ultimately what will a new map bring? A change of scenery? After a week or two it will be the same old same old just different landscape.

Thats why battle zones with randomized objectives would be a much better offering. Smaller group sizes might also help hide some of the imbalances or at least close the gaps slightly. Have 5 or so mini maps and maybe 20 total objectives that get shuffled each time you enter a map. 10 defensive and 10 offensive, have a few of the generic cap the flag types, or the usual stand bys everyone is familiar with. Timed keep away types, timed survival where one side has twice as many players but one side has defenses and there is a hard timer. If the one side successfully defends they get a bonus, if the big side successfully takes the objective they get a bonus. There are plenty of examples of battle zones that can be really entertaining. But they have to be randomized within the maps. So map X always having objective 1 would get boring. But if Map X had a possibility of objective 1-20 then there is a much increased re-playability factor. Add in differing group sizes and that multiplies it even more.

Again, all this is a pipe dream as Lotro is simply going to the lowest common denominator these days and just releasing generic content slapping Lotro themed names to it and hoping enough people will be enthralled with that to forget the glaring inadequacies with the gameplay.

what i would prefer to see is just a few tweeks and maybe a change in style. for emample..

make the keeps mini instances like where players freep and creep join the que til enough spots have been filled then make it open war in that area with diffrent stipuations say TA is creeped owned the freep's spawn at EC and have to break down the defence's holding the bridge or try other routes while creeps have to hold of the enemy set a time limit to complete then take over or suffer from renforcements maybe the defending team gain control over the arrow path and boiling old? with the map being like this would give each keep there own fun points.

just a quick idea lol

How about PVMP skirmishes? A new map would be awesome too but this would be cool as well I think.

The most logical step I see Turbine taking to enhance pvmp play or the pvmp map is to incorporate it into to instance play. I would just bet that the instance join feature will include sometime in the near future the ability for creeps to join instances that are up till now exclusively manned by npc creeps.

Since I have no experience in gaming design, I don't know how difficult this would be to implement from a developers perspective, but it only makes sense to me from what I am seeing in how this whole new instance join tech is evolving.

If Turbine did something akin to this would it not majorly open up the pvmp world without having to create a single new pixel of terrain?

But, I guess the more important question is whether this would satisfy the majority pvmpers out there?

I know it would me!

Welden

i do not expect to see a new pvmp map but if they did give us a new pvmp map it would help me to want to stay.

i want a new pvmp map and for the old creep classes to get the buffs they need to be a mach for freeps and then i want some new classes after all the other suff is fixed. also make it where we can get the new skins that are impossible to get right now.

I am more worried about the PvP gear. As of now, it is terribly outdated. Some vendors are selling level 48 weapons, others are offering level 65 jewellery. When the rank 8 one-handers were introduced, they were looking fantastic. Alas, after Update 5 pretty much any trash weapon got the same dps. The armor set is also not that great anymore.

Hope that in the new expansion all those items will be upgraded so that people will be able to get decent items without having to raid a lot.

Originally Posted by welden

The most logical step I see Turbine taking to enhance pvmp play or the pvmp map is to incorporate it into to instance play. I would just bet that the instance join feature will include sometime in the near future the ability for creeps to join instances that are up till now exclusively manned by npc creeps.

Yep. Idea of PvMP skirmishes was sounded by Turbine some time ago. I doubt if the addition to PvMP is new map/ New regon is a major feature that influence on game world so Turbine would mention it. I think too that we'll see something like small battlegrounds or arenas, based on team vs team.

Originally Posted by jack4316

i do not expect to see a new pvmp map but if they did give us a new pvmp map it would help me to want to stay.

i want a new pvmp map and for the old creep classes to get the buffs they need to be a mach for freeps and then i want some new classes after all the other suff is fixed.

Creeps shouldn't be a match to freeps. Because now with f2p creeps they outnumber freeps.

Don't worry folks! I'm sure they'll announce they're making a new pvp map, then not make one!

Until there is a a new PvMP map in this game I wont buy a single expansion that this game has to offer.

Its a damn well time for some love to PvMP Turbine..

Keep up hope!
I have a feeling they'll announce a new PvMP map for Riders of Rohan soon!
And then they'll announce it again for the next expansion!
And the one after!
But one day! Just one day!

Originally Posted by Wanderv

Yep. Idea of PvMP skirmishes was sounded by Turbine some time ago. I doubt if the addition to PvMP is new map/ New regon is a major feature that influence on game world so Turbine would mention it. I think too that we'll see something like small battlegrounds or arenas, based on team vs team.

Creeps shouldn't be a match to freeps. Because now with f2p creeps they outnumber freeps.

Actually on the servers I play (5 in total), it's often freeps outnumbering creeps. The f2p creeps don't stick around due to the lack of balance. Ppl like to have fun, they don't like to be target practice.
On my main server we have nearly no f2p'ers due to freeps having farmed them for too long. We can invite them into groups but we can't guard them 24/7 and the moment they're not guarded by high ranks, they're getting farmed.

However with regards to PvMP map, regardless if Turbine promises a map or not, I'm not going to believe it until I see it. Learned from experience in that aspect at least.

I think they might be able to swing a change to the shade of some​ of the leaves on a tree or bush in the Ettenmoors. A color change with each season perhaps.

Yes, we need a new pvmp zone.
And Turbine, even if we aren't getting a new zone, can't you at least tell us now? So we aren't guessing whether we are getting one or not for the next 6 months.

Would be nice if they altered the map. change to the keeps / etc, different strategies needed.

Not a new place, that'd take away from the old one.

Originally Posted by Wanderv

Yep. Idea of PvMP skirmishes was sounded by Turbine some time ago. I doubt if the addition to PvMP is new map/ New regon is a major feature that influence on game world so Turbine would mention it. I think too that we'll see something like small battlegrounds or arenas, based on team vs team.

Creeps shouldn't be a match to freeps. Because now with f2p creeps they outnumber freeps.

bs creeps don't out number freeps its the other way around. or at least it is on my sever almost all the time freeps outnumber us like crazy.

Originally Posted by lutemaster

I don't think it's enough to just throw out another PvMP map to make things right.

First you have to consider the fact, that once a new map is release (if ever), then why would people play in Ettenmoors any longer?

One scenario that makes sense to me is revamping the moors map and extending it. There's a fair amount of room around it, especially to the Northeast.

Posting in this thread to bring it to the top of the list. YOU NEED TO ACT ON THIS TURBINE, I THINK ITS BEEN LONG ENOUGH.

A new map and some tweaks would be good and long overdue and while your at it bring back a cool down timer so peeps cant constantly switch, 12 hours should do it

./bumpitybump

No new Map = No more cash from me

No fixes in place = No more cash from me

Sick of handing over cash to Turbine for very little in return.

I love all this they have to have a new map or else talk. It is funny after a bit. So let's look at reality now.

1) If a new map is introduced, Moors becomes empty with in a day. Even single one here has said they would go to the new zone asap. So what good does that do Turbine? I mean then the have a totally empty zone that no one uses anymore. Do not believe it? Look at the mid zones in pve. No one is there unless they are leveling through those zones.

2) IF PvP. Is not going to happen. What do you think the outcry would be if a group joined and had a bunch of creeps come in and roll over the instance? You can guess. No marks. no medallions, no seals, nothing earned because a group of Creeps with r10 skills, they purchased and did not earn, ambushed them.

3) Open world PvP, just plain forget it. It is never going to happen so why bother. Try to get something that will work under the current design of the game.

From what I see there are two opportunities for Expansion of MP that are workable and fit into the model of the game. These are from reading suggestions for years and watching what the Devs have done over the last 5+ years.

a) Get and expansion to the moors map. The area could be expanded to twice it's current size. You add a second starter location via swift travel for both groups and you have new landscape, new keeps, new everything. Of course I think it would result in a lot more keep swapping, but you never know.

b) the small battle field idea has merit. Since this would be purely outside of PvE. They could use a ton of locations from the current open world maps to add a real wide range of fighting locations. The issue I see is getting group sizes correct. Do you go 2 creeps per freep? Does this mean freeps bring 3, 6 and 12 man groups while creeps bring 6, 12 and 24? Is it based on total ranks of the creeps and freeps?

Just questions that have to be answered and decided.

What happens when there is a long delay because there are not 12 freeps or creeps that wish to run together at that time? I mean right now with the IF I give up after 5 minutes of waiting for a group.

I am not a big PvP player but I think if you started offering suggestions that does not start with i quit and does not break the game design you have a chance for improvements.

What we really do not need, is more space to roam in in order to do PvP. A new zone would only work if they closed the Ettenmoors. At peak times there might be 60 players online at most, mostly concentrated in the zerg spots. When you do a raid vs raid fight most of the time you are roaming around the map without fighting at all. At non peak times the amount of players would be ridiculous for two large Maps. Population levels do not allow it. If you close one map down though, people will not like this either, maybe the new map is designed poorly or doesn't really enhance PvP, the reasons are plentyful.

What I really see coming though are Battlegrounds as advertised in many other MMOs. The instance finder just makes it easier to implement. If this ever comes though Turbine is forced to put more attention towards group vs group and 1vs1 balance. In an open world pvp environment this doesn't really matter since you can always add numbers to even it out. If 6 people can not compete against another full group they might just stack up. You can not do this in Battlegrounds, so balance needs to be improved even more so since both sides are different and not mirrored. If people can not compete out of sheer imbalance of system it will prove to be a dead body.

It is doubtful that they will add a new pvmp zone. It would not be very logical because the Ettenmoors would become a ghost town. However, that does not mean that will be left in dust once again.

What they could do, is EXPAND the Ettenmoors. I mean, look at your map, and look north of the Ettenmoors. There is quite a bit of land up there that they could use. They could just make a Northern Ettenmoors and a Southern Ettenmoors ( However, I'm not sure if that fits the lore)

The Southern Ettenmoors would become f2p for both freeps and creeps. And the Northern Ettenmoors would be VIP only. (VIPs can still enter the Southern Ettenmoors) And whenever a f2p player would try to enter the Nothern part, they would be blocked a an invisible wall.

Just an idea.

What is a new map going to do for PvMP in LoTRO?

Seriously. It isn't going to change much. The population across servers for PvMP is still going to be abysmal. It will still be a pendulum swing of imbalance and populations.

Just move on kids.

/signed

I think they should

Turn the ettenmoors into a pve zone maybe lvl 40 to 50

add a new zone near rohan, maybe "The world"
We're not even "battling the forces of Angmar" anymore...
It should be forces of Rohan/others against Isengard

an instance pvp zone for 3v3's/6v6's could be cool
a tactical dps/debuff creep couldn't hurt
then fix all the unbalances and problem solved

that will last another 5 years of no updates

I know there's one on the way. Whether or not it will be released this upcoming expansion, I do not know for sure.

I really doubt it will ever happen, if it does, it is will probably be a new cheap/buggy zone, with broken rewards and mechanics. A cheap way to counter people flocking to Guild Wars 2. Turbine is known for breaking things and broken promises, not quality content.

People keep saying to 'expand' the Moors... but they are going about it wrong. We don't need more time running across a map. We don't need people spread out more.

Thinking a little outside of the box... what about expanding it downwards by creating a system of tunnels under the keeps? Or expand the Delving so that it performs this purpose? This way you keep the same size map but add an all new strategy level that involves keeping an eye on stealthed raiding parties... You create some closed space battles without the NPC interference of the current keeps.

POWER TO THE CREEPS!


and that's all I got to say about that.

Originally Posted by vhamster

I really doubt it will ever happen, if it does, it is will probably be a new cheap/buggy zone, with broken rewards and mechanics. A cheap way to counter people flocking to Guild Wars 2. Turbine is known for breaking things and broken promises, not quality content.

The precedent has been set, come April its Lotro's 5th anniversary and we havent received a single new zone after several promises. Its blantantly obvious we wont be getting a map and the silence could be the fact they are working on a map and dont wish to outrage the community any further with hollow promises which they cant deliver.

I'm more inclinced to go with the past precedent unfortunately and hope quietly that they do deliver but as Vhamster has said...

Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath

I don't think there will be as they would have mentioned it when they stated what the new regions are.

Nothing concrete yet though. It's damn well time for a new PvMP map.

Nothing was stated about an additional PvMP map, but didn't Sapience say something about not all that's being offered has been released? In other words, there's more coming than what we currently know about. Can't find the exact quote, but it does leave the possibility open. PvMPers can always hope!

i dont know Jen i personally wouldnt hold my breath.. map or no map i'll continue PVP <3