Sorry, can't believe that BA thingie. A BA has to be r15, fully morale-traited, buffed with Imposing Presence, WL morale aura and DP buff to eventually reach 15k. No way Hindering Shot could crit for 1,2k either.. tooltip says 140 dmg for my BA.. It was either Punctured Target, Headshot or Tangleshot.
The morale/dmg percentage for hunters vs creeps maybe somehow okay, but not for any other medium or light armored class. We need to look at potential morale here. LM has potentially 4k-5k more morale than his base one with wisdom. Plus he can hit 4k-5k 5-target AoE wrapped with a long stun, which creep class can do that? Burglar can pop TnG and Knives Out disturbingly often, which makes him have potentially more morale than he first seems to have. Creeps don't have such things (save for Moving Target and uruk heal).
And minnies, well I don't think they need explaining
Yeah it was tangleshot. Translating the skills from german can be a bit tricky. I am pretty sure the BA was r8 though and sitting at 15k morale. of course buffed to oblivion and shopequipped. That is just how it goes on Morthond.
I wouldn't count cooldowns as +max morale either, especially not wisdom, since it is on a quite long cooldown as CDs go at the moment. Also the amount of dmg taken is just way more for light and medium armour now. This goes for Burgs and Minis as well, though they of course have more means to negate or counter. Heavies just don't get that much dmg dealt to them.
Originally Posted by Thorgrum
It’s really not complex the uncapping of stats for the ROI expansion has led to the ability of freep players to land incredibly high critical hits that cannot be equaled by the majority of creeps( I still have yet to see a 4k+crit by a creep). On top of that survivability was increased for freep players for the PvE game (the bubble bath effect I call it).
So your initial point might be correct that creep DPS is ok in comparative to freep morale but that’s not what the discussion is about. The mitigations fiasco is an annoyance really, an additional 10% mitigation will be nice but it doesn’t address the larger issue of the PvE effect on the moors. After the mits are fixed there are really only a few ways to go:
1.Nerf freeps (not going to happen, and I’m not advocating that) 2.Increase dps buffs for battlefield promotions for creeps. (I advocate for this, these cannot be bought in store though). 3.Continue on with little to know changes, maybe a new map which wont account for the PvE impact on balance (the likely scenario) 4.Stop playing PvP in lotro and find another game for PvP play.
Yeah I agree as well, it just irks me that whatever is done. I as a hunter will get shafted again for my favoured playstyle in order to reach balance which will still not apply at all.
Last edited by VincentVanPort; Jan 31 2012 at 01:14 PM.
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
For some reason, I just loved the 45 reflect damage back at him after the 5600 hit.
I know it's only reflect damage and all that, it just looked funny.
*KABLAMAPOWZINGEERRRRRBOOOM!!! * 5600 on your head
*dink* 45 back at ya, buddy...take that!
Thanks, you made my day
Too bad that reflect dmg is not returned damage based on percentage. Imagine if Blood of Fire or the spider equivalent would be like:
On any damage: Return 10% of damage as fire/shadow damage.
Boom that would mean an instant -560 to the morale of the LM just cause of this single skill. Freeps would be falling like flies cause of their own insane crits (Though this is still a pretty useful stuff, can't be mitigated, means an extra 1k dmg in fights).
Originally Posted by VincentVanPort
Yeah it was tangleshot. Translating the skills from german can be a bit tricky. I am pretty sure the BA was r8 though and sitting at 15k morale. of course buffed to oblivion and shopequipped. That is just how it goes on Morthond.
I wouldn't count cooldowns as +max morale either, especially not wisdom, since it is on a quite long cooldown as CDs go at the moment. Also the amount of dmg taken is just way more for light and medium armour now. This goes for Burgs and Minis as well, though they of course have more means to negate or counter. Heavies just don't get that much dmg dealt to them.
Not permenant morale of course, but still he can pop an extra 4k morale in every 5 minutes, not to mention the buff after, and creeps can't really do the same (save for, as I've said, uruk heal-but ranged classes own LMs mostly anyway).
Casual RPer
Havocz lvl65 LM, Dalin lvl48 GRD, Berenir lvl32 CPT - members of the same fellowship
Narzgash r8 Reaver, Ternakh r6 BA, Lugnakh r4 Warg, Ulburz r4 WL - the creeps who always remain True Snowbourn
-- Never on the dark side. Sauron sucks. Just many bad ones appear among the supposed 'good ones'. So experiencing another aspect of the game.
Respect your opponent, and you won't regret anything.
Yeah I agree as well, it just irks me that whatever is done. I as a hunter will get shafted again for my favoured playstyle in order to reach balance which will still not apply at all.
Putting my freep goggles on for a minute Hunter needs one important fix, they need “press onward” to become a true legendary and scale to 50-60% morale and power no induction can be done on the move. I’ve argued for that enhancement in the hunter forums (I do play a hunter from time to time), but other than that you should be putting out a great deal of damage, certainly enough to compensate for the deaths you are incurring.
Creeps on the other hand don’t have the luxury of crit hits for 5k plus, we didn’t have a developer buff us for the PvE game. That’s why I always lol when I see a freep on the boards thumping their chest thinking they have great skill at PvP, its very funny.
For some reason, I just loved the 45 reflect damage back at him after the 5600 hit.
I know it's only reflect damage and all that, it just looked funny.
*KABLAMAPOWZINGEERRRRRBOOOM!!! * 5600 on your head
*dink* 45 back at ya, buddy...take that!
LOL thank you for that. made me crack up.
speaking of awesome crits: Lugbur scored a critical hit with Default Melee Attack on Niightmare for 99 Fire damage to Morale.<---was amazed that it hit that hard. was on a cappy too.
oh and i hit like 6.2k with ents again on a warg :/ poor wargies
It’s really not complex the uncapping of stats for the ROI expansion has led to the ability of freep players to land incredibly high critical hits that cannot be equaled by the majority of creeps( I still have yet to see a 4k+crit by a creep). On top of that survivability was increased for freep players for the PvE game (the bubble bath effect I call it).
So your initial point might be correct that creep DPS is ok in comparative to freep morale but that’s not what the discussion is about. The mitigations fiasco is an annoyance really, an additional 10% mitigation will be nice but it doesn’t address the larger issue of the PvE effect on the moors. After the mits are fixed there are really only a few ways to go:
1.Nerf freeps (not going to happen, and I’m not advocating that) 2.Increase dps buffs for battlefield promotions for creeps. (I advocate for this, these cannot be bought in store though). 3.Continue on with little to know changes, maybe a new map which wont account for the PvE impact on balance (the likely scenario) 4.Stop playing PvP in lotro and find another game for PvP play.
Just waiting till GW2 for PvP atm.. They are probly gonna come out with a new map with the expansion but it wont change much.
####### scored a critical hit with Improved Merciful Shot on Terrorarrow for 5,655 Beleriand damage to Morale. This a joke, turdine nerfs the creep version when the faceroll(freep) version is 10x better
Freepside pvmp- For when your just not smart enough for WoW.
####### scored a critical hit with Improved Merciful Shot on Terrorarrow for 5,655 Beleriand damage to Morale. This a joke, turdine nerfs the creep version when the faceroll(freep) version is 10x better
But what would you hit him with say vital target or revenge? Not including the dot probably around 2,4kish? Wouldn't that be about the same in % compared to his morale?
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
But what would you hit him with say vital target or revenge? Not including the dot probably around 2,4kish? Wouldn't that be about the same in % compared to his morale?
Your point holds some weight but only in regards to Hunters
Since you do not possess the godmode defensive skills as Champ, Mini, Burg etc
Remember its not just unreal Crits we are dealing with
Its also the unreal defensive bubbles/heals/evade etc
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Sparred a lvl 75 13.5k guard with my lvl 60 mini 2 weeks ago and got him down to 7.2k (prolly could of done better if i popped out of warspeach and used fellowship heart/bubble/enter WS). Attempted to take down a lvl 75 rnk 4 guard with 4k morale left on rank7 warg (full health but no CDs)...... died, guard still had 1.5k morale.
Terrorarrow scored a hit with Tangleshot Snare Damage on Downlo for 399 Fire damage to Morale.
Terrorarrow scored a devastating hit with Skirmisher: Tangleshot on Downlo for 799 Fire damage to Morale.
1398 damage with a dev on a skill that even states it does "extreme damage". Crazy OP i know!
Freepside pvmp- For when your just not smart enough for WoW.
Try it again at R11+ then you will see some serious damage to your opponent
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Rank 4 Reaver on an Elf-Champion (skill tooltip says 1111 fire damage):
Thrakatulmorth scored a critical hit with Devastating Strike on Zoukon for 544 Fire damage to Morale.
This was with 10% buff from Glory btw...
Denkst du das selbe, was ich denke, Pinky?
Ich glaub schon, Brain. Aber wie bekommen wir das Nilpferd dazu einen Tanga anzuziehen?
But what would you hit him with say vital target or revenge? Not including the dot probably around 2,4kish? Wouldn't that be about the same in % compared to his morale?
That would work if hunters didnt have more cc, crit chance and stealth.
Freepside pvmp- For when your just not smart enough for WoW.
What do you expect from the highest DPS and best played LM on the server? He's customised his LM to nuke creeps with massive hits. Problem is creeps can't do the same.
What do you expect from the highest DPS and best played LM on the server? He's customised his LM to nuke creeps with massive hits. Problem is creeps can't do the same.
That would work if hunters didnt have more cc, crit chance and stealth.
Well the hit you received wouldn't have worked if you had popped moving target. Round and round the ball goes and where it stops nobody knows.
Why would one use CC against BAs anyway. Waste of induction skills. Don't deal dmg dont hinder the BA due to brands and pots. The only positive thing to say about Ba ord Irritating shot in that is that they might delay the BAs dmg for a second or two but it might just be that while you use the Bard induction he pops moving target and instead of dealing dmg with ISB you deal far less for Bards. The last time I checked the fear effect did not, different to stuns and mezzes, negate the B/P/E, could have missed that though.
If you get hit frim stealth from a hunter the first thing you do is pop moving target. Then you should have it in the bag since there is no skill now that will reliably deal dmg for 30 seconds. Apart from HS of course but it is incredibly easy to deal with this. Pull off your rota and it is a done deal. Now if you get jumped by a hunter it is quite safe to assume that you will have your skills at the ready to since you assume optimal surroundings for the opponent as well.
Edit: Your post actually reads like you have problems dealing with hunters. As a R8 BA you shouldn't have. Let me tell you we are the weakest class in 1vs1 situations though still deadly in zergs and raids. We die in seconds, when focused, there is nothing to take that damage away from us, no B/P/A, no self heal, no sprint and there are ways to deal with our supreme range. Yes we gain a lot of glory still by playing very professional in the zerg, isn't that all we want? Honestly I say BAs have it all the way now, which is cool, along with reavers and warleaders probably the most "fun" classes to play on creepside.
Last edited by VincentVanPort; Feb 01 2012 at 08:34 PM.
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
Edit: Your post actually reads like you have problems dealing with hunters. As a R8 BA you shouldn't have. Let me tell you we are the weakest class in 1vs1 situations though still deadly in zergs and raids. We die in seconds, when focused, there is nothing to take that damage away from us, no B/P/A, no self heal, no sprint and there are ways to deal with our supreme range. Yes we gain a lot of glory still by playing very professional in the zerg, isn't that all we want? Honestly I say BAs have it all the way now, which is cool, along with reavers and warleaders probably the most "fun" classes to play on creepside.
With a hunter that actuly want to fight legit no issue at all. Most hunters on my server dont even know how to mouse turn. Its the 8-11k from a stealth hs than 5k merci/3k blood/6k swift bow/ 2k pen x 3 that more or less uncounterable that I have issues with.
Freepside pvmp- For when your just not smart enough for WoW.
I'm R12. Oh well, I guess I need r15 to deal some damage then...
WTS Sarcasm Detector....PST
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
i've run with mattheos a lot and sparred him thousands of times, trust me, that isn't impressive for him lol, i've seen him double that just the other day.
of course, he runs with about +140-155% damage
actually, he's one of the few hunters on the server who mouseturns, (hence the thousands of spars)
if i see him on my creep i just go the other way, in case he 1 shots me with a random skill lol
Last edited by loki84; Feb 02 2012 at 09:22 AM.
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
i've run with mattheos a lot and sparred him thousands of times, trust me, that isn't impressive for him lol, i've seen him double that just the other day.
of course, he runs with about +140-155% damage
actually, he's one of the few hunters on the server who mouseturns, (hence the thousands of spars)
if i see him on my creep i just go the other way, in case he 1 shots me with a random skill lol
thats the hardest i have ever seen him hit, it normally isnt even that hard. plus hes a complete noob and stands their trying to get inductions off with a reaver beating on him and doesnt use resolute aim
What do you expect from the highest DPS and best played LM on the server? He's customised his LM to nuke creeps with massive hits. Problem is creeps can't do the same.
I didn't expect much less from him. I know he's the strongest LM around, very skilled 1v1er too, I've experienced it. Still despite all this it's not that he is impossible to beat with a decent melee class, we've had 2 draws from 3 matches 2 days ago (his clean victory was this fight, where he scored this ents crit), so I'm not complaining.
Just that it was a funny number to see from an aoe stun skill, while creeps' very best aoe dps skill (not counting trolls) is reaver's r10 Mutilation, dealing around 400 initial dmg + 400 total from dot, which means a total of 500-600 dmg on heavies, in a lucky case :P
Casual RPer
Havocz lvl65 LM, Dalin lvl48 GRD, Berenir lvl32 CPT - members of the same fellowship
Narzgash r8 Reaver, Ternakh r6 BA, Lugnakh r4 Warg, Ulburz r4 WL - the creeps who always remain True Snowbourn
-- Never on the dark side. Sauron sucks. Just many bad ones appear among the supposed 'good ones'. So experiencing another aspect of the game.
Respect your opponent, and you won't regret anything.
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Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
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