Thread: Ridiculous Crits

Originally Posted by Dorothir

8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.

only 3k from a burg....yea, i wish lol. reaver hitting anywhere CLOSE to that on a champ i would love to see. actually i would lvoe to see that against any freep(withou DR). and lastly, hunter only hiting 4k? yea, maybe if they just hit 75 10 minutes ago.

Originally Posted by 0987654321

only 3k from a burg....yea, i wish lol. reaver hitting anywhere CLOSE to that on a champ i would love to see. actually i would lvoe to see that against any freep(withou DR). and lastly, hunter only hiting 4k? yea, maybe if they just hit 75 10 minutes ago.

Those are just crits I've seen. I could do a dev for champs because I am one. Plus, reavers have hit me for that with a Devastating Strike dev.

The point was, if you see a freep hitting for around 5k, remember that it's not that much in terms of morale %. These 10k hunter devs are mental, though. Must be so glass cannony that you can nuke them in 5 seconds anyway.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.

You have a point, avarage freep crits/devs are not that big considering creep morale. But think about it:

8k morale champ doesn't potentially have just 8k morale. With both his bubbles (which he can use pretty often), he has 13-14k morale. Let's not count Dire need, manheal or pots here, with those the champ might go up to 20k. So we end up with him having nearly the same morale of the reaver and 2x-3x more dps and crits. Does the reaver have any real opportunities to selfheal/increase his max morale? No.

Burg can pop TnG, Knives out very often. Those potentially make him receive significantly reduced damage for a significant time. Does the warg, too, possess such skills? No.

Hunter usually crit higher than 4k, at least with Heart Seeker (not considering penetrating shot spam). Mcyer finishes me easily in less than 10 secs at least. But hunters are indeed squishy though.

Originally Posted by Havoc007

You have a point, avarage freep crits/devs are not that big considering creep morale. But think about it:

8k morale champ doesn't potentially have just 8k morale. With both his bubbles (which he can use pretty often), he has 13-14k morale. Let's not count Dire need, manheal or pots here, with those the champ might go up to 20k. So we end up with him having nearly the same morale of the reaver and 2x-3x more dps and crits. Does the reaver have any real opportunities to selfheal/increase his max morale? No.

Burg can pop TnG, Knives out very often. Those potentially make him receive significantly reduced damage for a significant time. Does the warg, too, possess such skills? No.

Hunter usually crit higher than 4k, at least with Heart Seeker (not considering penetrating shot spam). Mcyer finishes me easily in less than 10 secs at least. But hunters are indeed squishy though.

Exactly

We are not just dealing with ridiculous DPS

There are also the ridiculous Freepside defensive buffs

Then we have the CD resets most Freeps have and most Creeps do not

Bottom line= major unbalances

But thats another story (or thread)....

Guardian

Twinklestar scored a critical hit with Stagger on Purebloodnakh for 1,467 Beleriand damage to Morale.
Twinklestar scored a critical hit with Brutal Assault on Purebloodnakh for 1,329 Beleriand damage to Morale

Spamming for 1.4K +


Purebloodnakh scored a critical hit with Eye Rake on Jebodiah for 507 Shadow damage to Morale.

Guard has 3X the DPS of Warg

Originally Posted by Dorothir

7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.

You left out the "I WIN" skill called moving target.

Originally Posted by shilow7

You left out the "I WIN" skill called moving target.

Lol? You left out the "I WIN" skill Eldar's Grace, or Touch and Go x2!



But your post isn't serious, it can't be.

Originally Posted by stoffi

Lol? You left out the "I WIN" skill Eldar's Grace

DAFUQ? 1h CD for 10s of +75% PARRY. You call that OP?!

Originally Posted by Havoc007

You have a point, avarage freep crits/devs are not that big considering creep morale. But think about it:

8k morale champ doesn't potentially have just 8k morale. With both his bubbles (which he can use pretty often), he has 13-14k morale. Let's not count Dire need, manheal or pots here, with those the champ might go up to 20k. So we end up with him having nearly the same morale of the reaver and 2x-3x more dps and crits. Does the reaver have any real opportunities to selfheal/increase his max morale? No.

Burg can pop TnG, Knives out very often. Those potentially make him receive significantly reduced damage for a significant time. Does the warg, too, possess such skills? No.

Hunter usually crit higher than 4k, at least with Heart Seeker (not considering penetrating shot spam). Mcyer finishes me easily in less than 10 secs at least. But hunters are indeed squishy though.

Again I was jsut pulling numbers out of thin air. I do not know how much a hunter usually crits but it is way off. So are the crits they receive compared to their morale. It is just the huge gap between heavy armour classes and medium light ones. I was hit with a t3 dot in dying rage by a reaver that was actually ticking for 350-400 every two seconds. I guess it would deal way less damage to a guardian. Fully equipped I will be sitting at 6k morale. Upon meeting a 11k BA, I might hit him with two enormous hits in a second, in the same time his two dots might deal proportionally the same dmg to me. It is just too fast at the moment.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Those are just crits I've seen. I could do a dev for champs because I am one. Plus, reavers have hit me for that with a Devastating Strike dev.

The point was, if you see a freep hitting for around 5k, remember that it's not that much in terms of morale %. These 10k hunter devs are mental, though. Must be so glass cannony that you can nuke them in 5 seconds anyway.

tbh, if your champ is getting hit for 2.6k with DS, you must not be wearing and gear, and you must have zero virtues equipped. theres champs on BW that i CRIT DS on for 1.1k. the TOOLTIP for me is 1.2k. i rarely dev against champs, although the highest i have dev'd is 1.8k(which totally blew my mind when i saw it lol). the only feasible way i could see reaver DS hitting a champ for 2.6k is with rend flesh(+10% damage i believe, not exactly sure on numbers)aura of command(+25% melee damage), and with the champ having VERY low tact mit, as in they don t equip a single piece of tact mit gear, and dont really use any tact mit virtues. hell, my mini and lm dont get hit that hard by DS, and their tact mit is around 25%. only time i have seen above 2.1k on my lm is when the reaver used DR in a 1v1(ended up being a 3.1k dev from a rank 13 reaver)

hunters that hit that hard, generally are in the 5-6k morale range, which does make them super squishy, however, when they do it in an open field so you can't LOS, are camo'd so you can interrupt it, not a whole lot you can to do prevent it. the guy that hit 10.8k on a WL, i would hate to see what he could do to a spider or warg.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

It is just too fast at the moment.

i have to agree. the moors, for a while now, have all been about massive burst dps.

Originally Posted by 0987654321

i have to agree. the moors, for a while now, have all been about massive burst dps.

Freeps DPS > Creep DPS

Massive or not

Aink scored a devastating hit with Remorseless Strike on Purebloodnakh for 4,869 Beleriand damage to Morale

Should a Melee class be able to take 1/2 R11 Warg morale with 1 button?

And on a 2 min CD guaranteed crit....Improved Seeking Blade

Either nerf ISB or buff Wargs/Reavers

Kelsan.. You do realize you are supposed to be on CREEPs side of PVMP development ? It is beyond belief that you abandon us in this situation

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Should a Melee class be able to take 1/2 R11 Warg morale with 1 button?

Your warg has 9738 morale, does it? With 1 button 1/2 of it's gone? Try 3 buttons minimum and a getting lucky on it being a devstate.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

And on a 2 min CD guaranteed crit....Improved Seeking Blade

Either nerf ISB or buff Wargs/Reavers

Strange that you're transfixed by ISB but not with the burg version which has a short cooldown and does dev instead of crit.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Kelsan.. You do realize you are supposed to be on CREEPs side of PVMP development ? It is beyond belief that you abandon us in this situation

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Your warg has 9738 morale, does it? With 1 button 1/2 of it's gone? Try 3 buttons minimum and a getting lucky on it being a devstate.



Strange that you're transfixed by ISB but not with the burg version which has a short cooldown and does dev instead of crit.

Yes my DPS build for Warg is around 9K....One RS with a crit = 1/2 of 9K gone

Scared of nerf?

"Hey dont look at how ridiculously OP ISB is...look over there at Burgs armor set bonus !"

LOL

The day is coming "Champion" when either your ISB will get nerfed...or Creeps will get a comparable skill

Then the real QQ will begin

Update 6:
Champion changes :
ISB cooldown has been raised to 30 min

Originally Posted by 0987654321

worst part. the 5 stun's/dazes in a row. i knew EC was coming, was going to hips out and let the reaver get blasted, but of course, with stun pot on CD, i had to HOPE that you wouldnt get FIVE!!! mezz's/stuns in a row :P oh well.

i actually agree that RK's arent as bad as they used to be. i was getting hit with 7k EC's pre-RoI, so i feel as though RK's crit damage was nerfed SLIGHTLY, although they still have multiple skills that crit for over 2k, and a spam attack that can crit for 1.5k

yep, and now our armour is capped as well, so we lost quite a bit of armour, and our dps is below what it was when we were lvl 65, also most rk's only have about 1k more morale for 10 extra levels, i have well over 2000 will compared to 650 at lvl 65, rk's have not progressed at all, the ONLY thing keeping the wargs away while i'm fighting is knowing that the second they pounce me, i'll pot and take them down with me. given how very visual and obvious perfect imagery and EC are, the second you cast them it's like holding up a sign saying: over here please kill me, i can't hurt you at all. which makes me not want to cast them unless i'm about to die.

add to that that creep morale has almost doubled....... it's kinda sad to see such a great class destroyed by it's dev, check the rk forums, our dev never posts anything at all, ever, except to say how much survivability we have (even when the whole community of the class and even other classes including creeps tell him otherwise)

enough QQ for 1 day lol

Ok the realy big issue is the fights lasting 10sec. or less. some of the best fights ive had are some lasting over 1 minute a few 3 or 4. now days i cant use half my skills because it ends to fast. best idea is to triple creep crit defences. some creeps are very well balnced atm BAs WL and Defierls are perfect atm . wargs spiders need survivable skills and fix the dang worthless skills like tendon shred.and 30 sec CD on SS. reavers are tough but need to be high ranked tho thats harsh, we dont need more dps both sides need less!! make the fights use skill like the old days.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Yes my DPS build for Warg is around 9K....One RS with a crit = 1/2 of 9K gone

Scared of nerf?

"Hey dont look at how ridiculously OP ISB is...look over there at Burgs armor set bonus !"

LOL

The day is coming "Champion" when either your ISB will get nerfed...or Creeps will get a comparable skill

Then the real QQ will begin

Update 6:
Champion changes :
ISB cooldown has been raised to 30 min

Even if champs get their ISB nerfed or creeps get a similar skill (probably for reavers), you'll still spend your days making thread after thread, whining about how OP freeps are everytime you get killed. The sad thing is, you won't ever realise that it's not the freeps being OP that keeps causing you to fail.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Even if champs get their ISB nerfed or creeps get a similar skill (probably for reavers), you'll still spend your days making thread after thread, whining about how OP freeps are everytime you get killed. The sad thing is, you won't ever realise that it's not the freeps being OP that keeps causing you to fail.

Good points

Now that I think about it, Creeps and Freeps are pretty close to balance

Its all player skill and nothing to do with any so-called OP skills

I stand corrected

Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos

Ok the realy big issue is the fights lasting 10sec. or less. some of the best fights ive had are some lasting over 1 minute a few 3 or 4. now days i cant use half my skills because it ends to fast. best idea is to triple creep crit defences. some creeps are very well balnced atm BAs WL and Defierls are perfect atm . wargs spiders need survivable skills and fix the dang worthless skills like tendon shred.and 30 sec CD on SS. reavers are tough but need to be high ranked tho thats harsh, we dont need more dps both sides need less!! make the fights use skill like the old days.

i agree with everything you said except the part about wargs lacking survivability, 80% of the time i engage a warg, he'll disappear the second it looks bad for him, there's a good reason why people like thelegendarygoat have 2k ratings.
also, some pathetic r2 warg bought all his skills and almost soloed me today, THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN! he was hitting me harder than a r7 reaver. and no, i'm not a fail rk, but i've NEVER seen a r2 hit so hard in my life, and he felt confidant enough to keep trying too, i had to do all sorts of things just to stay alive, including elf parry, potting, making sure i had do not fall to wound and flame up at all times. he got me down to 80 health the first time from 6700, and i had to heal myself straight away or i woulda died to the bleeds on me. i've faced r8 wargs that were easier. he was using store brands, shadow howler fleabitten and all sorts of garbage.

they need to remove the ability to buy skills straight away, let people keep what they've already bought, fine, but otherwise it destroys the balance in the moors, of lowbies being weaker and high creeps being stronger, which has already been warped by being allowed to advance through early ranks via quests alone.


but yes, longer fights would be nice,

and spiders need absolute love. x 1 million

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Your warg has 9738 morale, does it? With 1 button 1/2 of it's gone? Try 3 buttons minimum and a getting lucky on it being a devstate.

Oh my. Three buttons you say?

Has anyone told Orion of this? Three buttons is a lot to have to press in a fight.

Originally Posted by Ugmo

Oh my. Three buttons you say?

Has anyone told Orion of this? Three buttons is a lot to have to press in a fight.

Agreed

Needs to be reduced to 2 at least

If I cant destroy my opponent in PVP with 1-2 buttons then I will quit this game and go back to Unreal Tournament Insta-Gib

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Good points

Now that I think about it, Creeps and Freeps are pretty close to balance

Its all player skill and nothing to do with any so-called OP skills

I stand corrected

Everything would be about skill if nobody would use such skills, at least not in 1v1.

A bit tired of 1v1s where the match seems a close call but it seems i'm winning, still then the champ is like "f*ck this, i won't lose to him", and he pops the greater bubble on a few hundreds of morale. A bit tired of 1v1s where the minstrel is on dangerously low morale, i'm happy and all that i can finally beat a mini, then he quickly fears me and fully heals back. Ridiculous to see BAs pop Moving Target and/or uruk heal in 1v1s against a hunter too.

As far as I can tell, there is a relative balance between well-geared champs without bubbles/dire need, and r7+ reavers. Champ beats me without using these, I commend them for their skill. Champ who cannot resist the overcoming temptation to use these in a fight they're losing, well I accept it-have it your way. Not really impressed about skills that way. Mind you, unskilled, and possibly a bit undergeared champs can still be beaten, despite bubbles and all.

And I've realised the sarcasm btw

Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos

Ok the realy big issue is the fights lasting 10sec. or less. some of the best fights ive had are some lasting over 1 minute a few 3 or 4. now days i cant use half my skills because it ends to fast. best idea is to triple creep crit defences. some creeps are very well balnced atm BAs WL and Defierls are perfect atm . wargs spiders need survivable skills and fix the dang worthless skills like tendon shred.and 30 sec CD on SS. reavers are tough but need to be high ranked tho thats harsh, we dont need more dps both sides need less!! make the fights use skill like the old days.

Agreed. Fights shouldn't conclude in a few seconds. Longer fights=more fun.

However you can actually have long fights. Roll a WL, rank it up, and 1v1 with a shield warden. That will be funny

Originally Posted by Dorothir

8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.

Ok from the looks of it you are comparing 1v1s in a raid zone, but I still have a few things to say at least about the champ v reaver. I go out to the moors on my champ in a high crit build with good mitigations. My dev % is about 7. Creep also have slight dev avoidance. So clearly not going to see many dev remorseless strikes from a champ. Someone else mentioned bubbles but a champ shouldn't being using a bubble in a 1v1. The reason champs need bubbles is for having survivability in a raid setting. This being said champs are still a bit over the top, simply because having the ability to use bubbles and sprint when we should not have to(I guess I am suggesting higher cooldown for sudden defence).Enough about champs though, its clear freeps are favoured right now. Creep mittigations are going to be higher, kelsen said as much.

Originally Posted by deathman22

kelsen said as much.

And we know his word is as good as gold

I deved a freep last night for 253 common damage. This outrageous dps by creeps needs to be nerfed asap. I would have 1 shotted the chimp if he had 200 moral.

Originally Posted by Faileon

DAFUQ? 1h CD for 10s of +75% PARRY. You call that OP?!

Lol'd pretty hard, 9/10.

I know this thread is about the crits of freeps and how it contributes to the imbalance in the moors atm, but shouldnt we be considering the overall dps vs tps as a better indicator?

Sure the crits to creeps needs to be addressed but its really just i piece of the beat-down pie creeps are eating atm. My r7 warg has about 11k morale atm, and deals anywhere from 50-125 dps atm depending on the class I am fighting. This versus the 300-800 tps I recieve..... thats anywheres from a 1-6 to 1-8 ratio of dps to tps, and with better freep armour/morale (I have seen all freep classes with close to or at 10k morale, maybe not RK's - but they can outheal my dps 1v1), my "morale advantage" is a mute point. Even with the reduced damage freeps face with such high morale builds, they still out-dps me by far. Just download the combatanalysis plugin - great tool but kind of depressing.

Factoring in the crits is just guaranteed victory for even the worst freeps roaming the moors. Tbh, the only thing I can solo atm is the terrible hunters (if you can ever find one solo), whose only experience has been raid/zerging creeps as they spam 2 or 3 skills from the back lines.

Alright - I know I suck, but does every freep I fight have crazy in game skills? Prolly not, but they dont need to. They dont need to rely on the full range of skills they have, not with a straight-up dps advantage. Our morale, despite what freeps say, is not high enough to mitigate or at least balance this advantage. Maybe at higher lvls creeps are on an more equal playing field.... but then again who wants to roll a creep to rank 9+ while being pwned the whole time, and then find out you might "have a chance" vs some under ranked freeps? Not to mention, freeps are lvling much faster than we can.....so even if you do get to the higher lvls as a creep, your gonna be facing a lot of freeps who got there travelling an much easier path (this is the case on my server at least - definitely more high lvl freeps to creeps).

Best fight I ever had was on my rnk5 WL vs a rnk2 shield warden (he was pretty bad but so am I). We fought for 10 min, and he ended up running after he blew all his cd's......I spent the next 10 min chasing him and finally had to enlist the help of a warg to kill him.

Also - LOL at loki84. He ALMOST beat you? You had to use pots and your full range of skills? You should ALWAYS beat a lower ranked creep? Welcome to our world (well not really sounds like you beat him).

Originally Posted by Dorothir

8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.

Wow almost looks fair but you're forgetting one thing:

Every one of thoes freep classes has 3 or more skills that will reliably crit for at least the number you quoted.

for example:

Hunters 7-8K on HS, SB for ~1.5 each, pen shot for 3K, blood arrow 3k and merciful shot 3K.

Furthermore:

Your quoted creep moral numbers are for creeps that stack moral and therefor will NEVER hit for the numbers you quoted.

ISB means champs can count on a hit for 6K+ (they have gotten over 1k crits on their bow ffs), however, revers can never count on a crit when they use their dev strike. So you should compare 100% crit chance for a champ (every 2 mins) with whatever the crit % chance of the reaver is on dev strike (also every 2 mis). Finally reavers will not do a 2k crit on a champ or any other heavy or medium armor class, maybe a light armor on a dev crit.

Burgs SS can all hit above for 1.5K and if they use aim their cunning attack can hit ~400 every tick. Quite often with burgs it's the stacking of very fast skills that all do 300-400 per hit or tick that makes burgs blow stuff up + their ability to lock down single targets.

So when you compare a freeps ability to crit large on multiple skills as well as getting guaranteed crits, you'll see that freeps have a massive advantage with more high damage skills and the % of times they crit with them.

5k+ is a dev, auto crits are usually in the area of 3k+ (under if you DW iirc) just to clarify. I'm pretty sure burgs auto-dev is probably twice that with the right gear. In full DPS gear champions are usually below 7k morale and I've seen my mitigations go as low as 35% (highest I can reach is about 68%, too). I'd be more worried about the high morale/mitigationed players that are still able to achieve moderately high numbers. The tradeoff for damage is fair, but there isn't much of a trade for mits/morale.

Also unless the player is swapping bows they're missing about 1k physical mit and 1% crit in exchange for a bow that does probably 3-400 per hit. Which is ironically still more damage than some creeps.

5.4k MS on a R6 Reaver just now.

5.9k EC on a R9 Warg yesterday.


This game's PvP is utterly garbage. On my R9 WL'r I crit with my Intimidating Shout and the -40% runspeed isn't even taking effect.

Thank the Fates this game has been free for me for well over two years now otherwise I'd be sending the Turbine coders a "FUFUFUFUFUFUFUFUFUUFUFUFU " card with each new patch/expansion failing to balance things out. To date... that "balance" has never been reached. /Pathetic

Originally Posted by Dorothir

8k morale champ vs 15k morale reaver. Champ does 5k dev. That's a 33% morale hit. To meet that, the reaver would have to do around 2.6k on a devastating hit.

6k morale burger vs 12k morale warg. Burg does a 2k crit. 16% morale hit. Warg would need to do around 1k crit to meet that.

7k morale hunter vs 13k morale BA. Hunter does a 4k crit. 30% hit. BA needs to do 2.1k crit to meet that.


You need to factor in a lot of differences (e.g. resistances, mitigations, DPS) but if you want to actually compare crits, just go for what morale % it is. More often than not, you'll find that the massive freep crit isn't actually as big in terms of percentage.

You have to slot all health corruptions to reach those health pools on reavers/wargs/BAs, so why is it exactly you compare that to low morale freeps ? My minstrel has got 8.5k-9k morale in the ettenmoors and I could push that higher if I tried. Being that light armour classes have the lowest base morale, I dare say champs/burglars/hunters can do better than that, particularly burglars, 6k morale for a burglar wasn't even good at level 65.

Edit: Not that it matters anyway, that would only be remotely relevant if critical hit rates where the same. 100% chance to score a crit with Remorless Strike with whatever that champ skill is called, 100% chance to score a crit from stealth and 100% chance to score (a) devastating crit(s) using Aim for burgs, +25% crit chance from Improved Focus for hunters, much higher base crit rates to boot ...

Titosu scored a devastating hit with Remorseless Strike on Purebloodnakh for 5,413 Beleriand damage to Morale

Were 5K+ Melee strikes part of the plan Kelsan ?

How do you plan to counter this as the Creep Developer?

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Titosu scored a devastating hit with Remorseless Strike on Purebloodnakh for 5,413 Beleriand damage to Morale

Were 5K+ Melee strikes part of the plan Kelsan ?

How do you plan to counter this as the Creep Developer?

I know you have invested a lot of time into PvP and the crusade to get attention, I admire your efforts and from time to time I’ve used the daily troll as motivation to get into threads with a pro creep message.

I’m sad to say though that it appears to be a largely wasted effort. More PvE is coming, so to answer your question I don’t think he plans to counter it at all. Had that been his intent he would have adjusted for the uncapping of the freep stats at ROI which are producing these crits.

Got hit by a 5.6k Epic conclusion the other day (Sunday morning) didn’t bother to save it to post here, logged after that.

Keep up the good fight man, but Kelsan isn’t one of the droids you’re looking for…..

Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine. As long as you compare them to medium and light armour classes. Heavies are complete askew here. A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k which will roughly translate to 18% of my morale. I believe I crit along the lines of that which means more dmg absolutely but the same compared to his morale pool. Same goes for Wargs and reavers though chances there can range from slim to none simply because of the knockdown and the time i need for setting up my highest dmg.
When it comes to Guards and Champs there it goes wrong since they deal really good dmg, while being dealt a lot less and having close to the same morale pools. The mitigation update really mocked things up balancewise.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine... A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k...

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine. As long as you compare them to medium and light armour classes. Heavies are complete askew here. A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k which will roughly translate to 18% of my morale. I believe I crit along the lines of that which means more dmg absolutely but the same compared to his morale pool. Same goes for Wargs and reavers though chances there can range from slim to none simply because of the knockdown and the time i need for setting up my highest dmg.
When it comes to Guards and Champs there it goes wrong since they deal really good dmg, while being dealt a lot less and having close to the same morale pools. The mitigation update really mocked things up balancewise.

It’s really not complex the uncapping of stats for the ROI expansion has led to the ability of freep players to land incredibly high critical hits that cannot be equaled by the majority of creeps( I still have yet to see a 4k+crit by a creep). On top of that survivability was increased for freep players for the PvE game (the bubble bath effect I call it).

So your initial point might be correct that creep DPS is ok in comparative to freep morale but that’s not what the discussion is about. The mitigations fiasco is an annoyance really, an additional 10% mitigation will be nice but it doesn’t address the larger issue of the PvE effect on the moors. After the mits are fixed there are really only a few ways to go:

1. Nerf freeps (not going to happen, and I’m not advocating that)
2. Increase dps buffs for battlefield promotions for creeps. (I advocate for this, these cannot be bought in store though).
3. Continue on with little to know changes, maybe a new map which wont account for the PvE impact on balance (the likely scenario)
4. Stop playing PvP in lotro and find another game for PvP play.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Creep DPS compared to morale of freeps is really fine. As long as you compare them to medium and light armour classes. Heavies are complete askew here. A 15k BA hit me with a skill I believe it translates to hindering shot for 1,2k which will roughly translate to 18% of my morale. I believe I crit along the lines of that which means more dmg absolutely but the same compared to his morale pool. Same goes for Wargs and reavers though chances there can range from slim to none simply because of the knockdown and the time i need for setting up my highest dmg.
When it comes to Guards and Champs there it goes wrong since they deal really good dmg, while being dealt a lot less and having close to the same morale pools. The mitigation update really mocked things up balancewise.

Sorry, can't believe that BA thingie. A BA has to be r15, fully morale-traited, buffed with Imposing Presence, WL morale aura and DP buff to eventually reach 15k. No way Hindering Shot could crit for 1,2k either.. tooltip says 140 dmg for my BA.. It was either Punctured Target, Headshot or Tangleshot.

The morale/dmg percentage for hunters vs creeps maybe somehow okay, but not for any other medium or light armored class. We need to look at potential morale here. LM has potentially 4k-5k more morale than his base one with wisdom. Plus he can hit 4k-5k 5-target AoE wrapped with a long stun, which creep class can do that? Burglar can pop TnG and Knives Out disturbingly often, which makes him have potentially more morale than he first seems to have. Creeps don't have such things (save for Moving Target and uruk heal).

And minnies, well I don't think they need explaining

Best for a while



Not even a dev

Originally Posted by Havoc007

Best for a while



Not even a dev

For some reason, I just loved the 45 reflect damage back at him after the 5600 hit.

I know it's only reflect damage and all that, it just looked funny.

*KABLAMAPOWZINGEERRRRRBOOOM!!! * 5600 on your head
*dink* 45 back at ya, buddy...take that!