Thread: Creep Mitigations

Hey all,

Wanted to provide some information on what's happened with Creep mitigations. In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values. We attempted to correct this with some modifications in the current patch (with the goal of bringing mitigations closer to their pre-Update 5 values), but it still has some lingering issues with classes that can shift between medium and heavy armor values.

In an upcoming patch we will be reverting these ceiling changes and returning Creep mitigations to the pre-Update 5 values.

We apologize for the inconvenience,

-Kelsan

For the love of god sort it out please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just give us a fighting chance and give both side maybe exciting raid vs raid or group or 1v1 situations instead being steam rolled in 3 hits from 1 freep player

Originally Posted by Blarrluk

For the love of god sort it out please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry. It'll be done "next patch" as soon as enough freeps have their 1st agers.

"Upcoming patch". So, what? Another 2-3 months of this ####?

Hopefully fireworks become untradeable again, then maybe they can put a patch out sooner and the latest "fix" might get accidentally released with it.

Originally Posted by AroJay

"Upcoming patch". So, what? Another 2-3 months of this ####?

Hopefully fireworks become untradeable again, then maybe they can put a patch out sooner and the latest "fix" might get accidentally released with it.

4 Months and still will be hit for 2.5k swift bow x3 i think

At least we have an acknowledgement from the dev thats something. This is yet another example of Turbine saying they will do something and not doing it. Now they tried, fine but facts are facts. Creep players and really anyone should remember this example when they decide on preordering the next expansion.

Do not reward mistakes no matter how sincere the reasoning seems to be. We've had to many of these, give no quarter.

Thanks Kelsan!

If it's going to take a while till the next patch try and get us some suprise with it.
Some other balance fix maybe, because I think pre-update 5 values won't be enough to stop the new gear and LIs of the freeps.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

At least we have an acknowledgement from the dev thats something. This is yet another example of Turbine saying they will do something and not doing it. Now they tried, fine but facts are facts. Creep players and really anyone should remember this example when they decide on preordering the next expansion.

Do not reward mistakes no matter how sincere the reasoning seems to be. We've had to many of these, give no quarter.

To you Sir i /salute

Thanks Kelsan!

If it's going to take a while till the next patch try and get us some suprise with it.
Some other balance fix maybe, because I think pre-update 5 values won't be enough to stop the new gear and LIs of the freeps.

same again /salute

Many of us, including myself, appreciate the update. But as others have stated in one fashion or another, we're getting sick of being brutally slapped around out here; we'd like to play; we're stuck being an apparent low priority though.

Please, please, please, expedite this patch for the love of all that is hobbit!

See, this is what I don't get. It took actual players about 5 seconds after the patch went live to go and check their mitigation values in the character tab and see that Turbine screwed it up again. So how in the WORLD did this patch make it to live? Do you mean to tell me that not one single tester or developer bother to actually RUN the build in their test environment and see that the values were correctly in line?

I just don't understand how a development department can be so incredibly incompetent as to allow something so blatantly and obviously broken to make it to live. I mean, this wasn't some complex bug that would have taken a unique test case to find. It was IN THE CHARACTER TAB. Compile the latest build. Deploy to the dev or test environment. Log in. Check values. Oops, it's broken. Go back to coding. Rinse and repeat.

Or does Turbine really care that little about PvMP that they won't even devote a single resource to test changes before live?

Originally Posted by Kelsan

Hey all,

Wanted to provide some information on what's happened with Creep mitigations. In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values. We attempted to correct this with some modifications in the current patch (with the goal of bringing mitigations closer to their pre-Update 5 values), but it still has some lingering issues with classes that can shift between medium and heavy armor values.

In an upcoming patch we will be reverting these ceiling changes and returning Creep mitigations to the pre-Update 5 values.

We apologize for the inconvenience,

-Kelsan

Posts like this are nice reminders of why I unsubbed last month. It's not that the Moors are currently broken, it's that the GM's just dont really give a ####.

Originally Posted by AroJay

See, this is what I don't get. It took actual players about 5 seconds after the patch went live to go and check their mitigation values in the character tab and see that Turbine screwed it up again. So how in the WORLD did this patch make it to live? Do you mean to tell me that not one single tester or developer bother to actually RUN the build in their test environment and see that the values were correctly in line?

I just don't understand how a development department can be so incredibly incompetent as to allow something so blatantly and obviously broken to make it to live. I mean, this wasn't some complex bug that would have taken a unique test case to find. It was IN THE CHARACTER TAB. Compile the latest build. Deploy to the dev or test environment. Log in. Check values. Oops, it's broken. Go back to coding. Rinse and repeat.

Or does Turbine really care that little about PvMP that they won't even devote a single resource to test changes before live?

You made a very good point but we are just human and to be fair to a degree we don't know what goes on in the offices of turbine his hands could of been tied and told we earn more money from freep players VIP than creep so let them farm we just don't know...but as creeps have had enough now no money will be spent by me as a CUSTOMER until at least these issues are resolved.

Originally Posted by AroJay

See, this is what I don't get. It took actual players about 5 seconds after the patch went live to go and check their mitigation values in the character tab and see that Turbine screwed it up again. So how in the WORLD did this patch make it to live? Do you mean to tell me that not one single tester or developer bother to actually RUN the build in their test environment and see that the values were correctly in line?

I just don't understand how a development department can be so incredibly incompetent as to allow something so blatantly and obviously broken to make it to live. I mean, this wasn't some complex bug that would have taken a unique test case to find. It was IN THE CHARACTER TAB. Compile the latest build. Deploy to the dev or test environment. Log in. Check values. Oops, it's broken. Go back to coding. Rinse and repeat.

Or does Turbine really care that little about PvMP that they won't even devote a single resource to test changes before live?

Excellent post.

LOL wow. The fix that wasn't. This is just pure comedy
gold. Hey guys, last time we promised we'd fix it, but well....
we didn't exactly fix it. THIS time though, we promise to
fix it. Honest.

Atleast they tried!!!
Kelsen, and devs, if you want more respect. Inform us more often.

Originally Posted by darnd

LOL wow. The fix that wasn't. This is just pure comedy
gold. Hey guys, last time we promised we'd fix it, but well....
we didn't exactly fix it. THIS time though, we promise to
fix it. Honest.

Best sales team around Blag Blag Blag and re-sell it to us again

Kelsan,

Let me be candid. We are no longer fighting Pre-Update 5, undergeared freeps - so returning mitigations to that level is ridiculous. I know my BA can test this with a simple Delving armor pot, and the difference is negligible.

Honestly though Kelsen, what is EXTREMELY more important than mitigations for parity, is the need for greater crit protection. You nerfed us when you took away 'crit protection 2'. Fact of the matter is, we don't have enough corruption slots to have even warranted the change/nerf.

Furthermore, as others have stated, why is it that I can log in after the patch, compare mitigation values and immediately find an error? What is lacking on Turbine's side that they cannot do the same?

Thank you.

So pathetic... actually... beyond pathetic...

Kelsan,
Thanks for the update! Can you give us an estimated fix date for this issue?

Originally Posted by Tiger06

Kelsan,
Thanks for the update! Can you give us an estimated fix date for this issue?

ofc,
about 3-4 months
devs havent time (WoW + Swotr occupies all time)

Well well, we did call it didn't we?

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

U6 but something else will be broken as a result of the fix.

Originally Posted by Thoronthor

But it will either introduce another bug or not fix the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Panahasi

Isn't that just splendid?

Everyone in here so far thinks alike (including me). We all believe Update 6 will fix one thing and bork an untold amount of previously working as intended things.

Originally Posted by Theandil

it will be funny, when they fix and bug something in this update...

ok ppls,..accept bets !

^ I believe Purebloodnakh also made a comment somewhere along those lines, but I couldn't find it in any of the topics.


How pathetic and incompetent can this get? It took real life players less than 5 minutes to figure out you didn't fix our mits. How can people who are being PAID to do this possibly miss something so blatantly obvious??

The creeps predicted it, you proved them right.

This should be fixed when wardens are fixed.


In other words, you guys are all ******.

Hey Kelsan,
thanks for replying here. Maybe you should inform us more often, because being kept in the dark can stir some blood on creepside. Your post is appreciated though.

As some have said before, more needs to be done to "fix" monsterplay. Freeps have 2nd and 1rst agers, the amount of damage they do is ridiculous because of the magnitude of the devs/crits. This results in creeps dying in the blink of an eye, and you can guess where that leads to: many creeps have already left the game, also high ranked ones, because they are tired of the situation.

"Fixing" mitigation values to pre-book 5 won't solve this. The updates to certain freep classes (mainly minstrels and champions) have caused an unbalance. Ofcourse we understand that you cannot "nerf" those classes because they have their use in PvE.
What you can do, however, is implement a PvMP debuff, only applicable in Ettenmoors, which limits dev magnitude for creeps and freeps (e.g max 2x base value). These, and other interesting suggestion have also been done by Harmonizer, one of the creep raid leaders of the Laurelin server. Please take your time to read his suggestions, he has put a lot of tought in how to make the best of the current situation (without completely redesigning PvMP).
You can find his post here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...e-Lotro-s-PvMP

Thanks for your attention.

Originally Posted by dadiro95

Atleast they tried!!!

lol sorry, but this seems like a pathetic attitude to have to me.

people don't usually get paid $$$ to "try"

Was going to come back from swtor to play my creeps for a bit, then I read this thread, srry turbine u r "Fired"!

I run a business, if any of my suppliers performed as poorly as u, I'd dump em, if any of my staff failed to do their job this often, they'd get fired!

"this is not the game your looking for, move along"

Its real shame that such awesome franchise belongs to such bad company like Turbine. They messed up mitigations on purpose in U5 and now. And ill bet my left nut that they will fu.. up something in the next update.


Turbine - not ever once(again)

Originally Posted by Kelsan

Hey all,

Wanted to provide some information on what's happened with Creep mitigations. In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values. We attempted to correct this with some modifications in the current patch (with the goal of bringing mitigations closer to their pre-Update 5 values), but it still has some lingering issues with classes that can shift between medium and heavy armor values.

In an upcoming patch we will be reverting these ceiling changes and returning Creep mitigations to the pre-Update 5 values.

We apologize for the inconvenience,

-Kelsan

Thank you for the update on the issue. Could we please get an ETA on the patch?

Originally Posted by Arvaen

Thank you for the update on the issue. Could we please get an ETA on the patch?

Originally Posted by Kelsan

Hey all,

Wanted to provide some information on what's happened with Creep mitigations. In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values. We attempted to correct this with some modifications in the current patch (with the goal of bringing mitigations closer to their pre-Update 5 values), but it still has some lingering issues with classes that can shift between medium and heavy armor values.

In an upcoming patch we will be reverting these ceiling changes and returning Creep mitigations to the pre-Update 5 values.

We apologize for the inconvenience,

-Kelsan

Thanks for clearing that up. As some have stated it might be a good idea to bump mitigations a little higher than pre-Update 5 levels. First ages are starting to make an appearance and theyre pretty nasty ..heh


As a suggestion: How about giving Creeps some sort of crit multiplier via passives that increases with rank. Personally i think 2x rank is reasonable which would bring a rank 15 Creep to 30% crit multiplier .

Originally Posted by Kelsan

Hey all,

Wanted to provide some information on what's happened with Creep mitigations. In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values. We attempted to correct this with some modifications in the current patch (with the goal of bringing mitigations closer to their pre-Update 5 values), but it still has some lingering issues with classes that can shift between medium and heavy armor values.

In an upcoming patch we will be reverting these ceiling changes and returning Creep mitigations to the pre-Update 5 values.

We apologize for the inconvenience,

-Kelsan

why havent i seen kelsan or any other dev respond to any of ur replies? do they just like to completely ignore creeps?

Originally Posted by Kelsan

Hey all,

Wanted to provide some information on what's happened with Creep mitigations. In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values.

Yup we figured out this unfortunately less than 5 minutes after logging in.

Originally Posted by Kelsan

We attempted to correct this with some modifications in the current patch (with the goal of bringing mitigations closer to their pre-Update 5 values), but it still has some lingering issues with classes that can shift between medium and heavy armor values. In an upcoming patch we will be reverting these ceiling changes and returning Creep mitigations to the pre-Update 5 values.

-Kelsan

Lol ... I'm sorry WHAT!?

You expected to move the mitigations closer to Pre-Update 5 values???

Even then I was deving 6K Remorseless Strikes and shooting 4K after 4K Minstrel calls and codas.

Originally Posted by HaldamirTinuviel

Kelsan,

Let me be candid. We are no longer fighting Pre-Update 5, undergeared freeps - so returning mitigations to that level is ridiculous.

This is the best reply I could find which answers this.

You move them back there and you'll get even more angry players shooting Turbine and you down.

You either need to give creeps a lot more corruption trait slots.

More mitigations to every rank up

or please give a player your job of dev so we can correct all your mistakes.



Sorry to be such a negative post but most of you people that work at Turbine should read us, the players comments and suggestions because it seems they're better than 4 years of work which you have done.

Originally Posted by gunlang

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

I suppose you're right. Being polite and eloquent hasn't gotten us very far.

Everything's completely FUBAR.

Originally Posted by Kelsan

Hey all,

-Kelsan

Well I'm not going to say thank you.

Its been broken a long time, there has been no previous feedback and no timescale for the new fix - its the most utter example of offensive customer focus a company could have and as others have cited before if anyone working at a company performed like this they should be sacked. Have off with your team and re-recruit.

An earlier feedback would have not caused so much frustration but not even the courtesy of that - Niceties aside, because we are well past that, do something significant to fix the moors.

I've used lotro as a recreational passtime for literally years. I have a prepaid sub and what happens between now and when it expires is the deciding factor in if it gets renewed or not.

Yes its just a game, but many people spend a hugely disporportionate amount of time in this escapist world; its like reading a book but being part of it, so it means a lot to its participants.

Its also big money to the companies that hold these rights so for our money we expect some service. The problem with the insular world of mmo's is it breeds a god complex among its designers; well wake up you have made a shambles and the mortals are about to leave the temple.

I am going to complain to warner brothers, turbine and the tolkien estate through every formal channel.

Tolkien quite frankly would turn in his grave, you are making a mockery of his legacy.

Kelsan & Orian = Lies, More Lies, and the Lying Liars That Tell Them.

Originally Posted by Griffin91

why havent i seen kelsan or any other dev respond to any of ur replies? do they just like to completely ignore creeps?

I think its lack of accountability. Whats the real price here? A bunch of people who post under pen names saying ####?

The key is how do we move forward from here, turbine lies to their customers. We have yet another factual basis for this statement, do not reward them for it.

No more money for turbine.

Originally Posted by Kelsan

In an attempt to bring Creep armor ceilings inline with Freep values, we inadvertently caused a reduction in some mitigation values.

This is a total fabrication, I don't know why Kelsan is being gagged from giving us the real story.

So here is my attempt at it:

The original nerf to creep mits was as much a surprise to Kelsan as it was to us.

It came about due to Turbine "dumbing down" PvE even more. Every creep class started off as a class that exists out in PvE land.

Do you all recall that after ROI all NPC's were tougher to kill (even for creeps in the delving)? Check past threads if you like...they're in there.

The more challenging PvE brought discontent so some other Dev went ahead and reduced the armour values and mitigations of all the NPC's to adress this problem. In doing so creeps got the same nerf.

Apparently no one knew/remembered/cared that creep mits and armour mirrored these NPC's and like I said, this was as new to Kelsan as it was to us.

Think about, it makes sense, I can now pull 4-5 NPC's again in the delving with no fear. Directly after ROI 2 was almost too many.

So, it is my understanding, they are having to completely redo all the armour and mits for all creep classes and get them right again. Some are going ok....some not so.

Simply put, in an effort to make PvE easier, Turbine also made PvP easier.... Well for the freeps at least.

Originally Posted by I_fail_irl

lol sorry, but this seems like a pathetic attitude to have to me.

people don't usually get paid $$$ to "try"

Nothing meant against you m8, but i agree.