Thread: An Argument For Top-Tier Raiding Armor in Store

Originally Posted by Beleg

I mostly agree with those who say this would be a Very Bad Idea.

However, I do have some empathy for alts. I think it would be good if more items were bound-to-account (so I could hand them down to alts). Or perhaps you could buy some gear off the store (though I'm mostly against that too) - only if you already earned the gear on one of your characters.

I have to agree that have more items set to bound to account would be nice, as would adding some form of bind to kin. It would be nice if long term members in long term Kinships have some ablity to more of the bound when aquired items around.

Outspoken as I've been about the store, it's not the store per se that gets me. If they sold fully levelled characters with max gear - and left it at that - I'd be cool with it. Really, I would.

Herein lies the rub: Every time something radically new is introduced into the store, we invariably get stealth nerfs (crafting, prices, exchange rates) in the game that we're given no warning about. Extra grinds are introduced.

Most people consider WoW to be a grindy game. Let's put something in perspective here. The very worst grind in WoW is a title called The Insane, which requires you to get to kindred with two opposing factions - though you can hit kindred with one, then let it drop as you get kindred with the other. It's a lot easier than getting and maintaining kindred with both the Ale Association and the Inn League. How do people regard those grinds in LoTRO? Mostly as a fun diversion from the big grinds.

If crafting is brought back properly, and I can craft end-game Bound to Account items that can be handed down to my alts, if the skirmish system could be put right again and it would be possible to level my soldiers on lower level toons, if I got relic removal scrolls at reforge, if I could quest for SGoEs, if some of the damn grinds could be reduced - go ahead, sell anything. Guild Wars actually got it right. Once upon a time, PvP was its own game in GW, and you can still buy a fully levelled PvP character if you choose not to buy the PvP campaign. Why you would these days is beyond me, since PvP is near dead, and it might take a slow player all of six hours to get to max level in the PvP specific campaign, but if you want to start at max level, you can. Of course, that character won't be able to do any PVE stuff (the vast majority of the game), but no extra grinds got added, the level cap is still 20, and it's still easy to reach. The only grinds that eventually got added were the Hall of Monuments ones, at player request - and those are totally optional, for a few titles you can take with you to GW2. The rest of the store simply sells the game, and cosmetic fluff.

If ANet could do it, and is actually still updating their game on a fairly regular basis, why can't Turbine? Guild Wars has been around a bit longer than LoTRO has, but it's not dead, either.

The short version: sell whatever you like in the store, just stop making the game the worse for it by putting in stealth nerfs and 'features' nobody wants.

To those who are agreeing with this; are you out of your minds?! Do you want to see this game killed by encouraging Turbine to put end game armour in the store?

Honestly... What in the world?

Originally Posted by Crell_1

My primary fears are that turbine would either A) Stat it BETTER than what's available in game rather than identical B). Not require the completion of the appropriate content. C.) That it will lead to content designed where you must have each piece of the preceding content's gear to do the next content.

And Turbine can't really do anything to address those fears. And that's why I have to say, no more stated gear. Pull the existing gear from the store so it can not be purchased by anyone else and replace it with stuff that's identically stated to match gear AT the players level.

Since the gear offered currently has such a dramatic advantage over on-level gear, why would anyone seriously think that when raid gear is offered, it won't be the same way? Ostensibly you'd want to buy an advantage further into the game, and (for that buying mentality) especially at end-game, than at level 20.

I really rather doubt that at this point, whoever is calling the shots on what gets sold in the store actually cares whether or not the buyer knows how to use the gear, or if they even go so far as to sell levels, that the buyer knows how to play the level. The sales are final. That's one policy they will never, ever go against or turn their stance on. On that one we can rest assured. Got the raid gear from the store but can't handle the content because you don't know how? Oh well /shrug, thanks for using the Turbine Store!

I agree they need to pull the statted gear from the store right now. But don't replace it with other lesser statted gear. Keep the armor in the store as cosmetic-- let the statted stuff be acquired in-game where it should be.

Originally Posted by Gelydh

To those who are agreeing with this; are you out of your ####ing minds?! Do you want to see this game killed by encouraging Turbine to put end game armour in the store?

Honestly... What the ####?

The store is going to be here as long as the game is. I personally don't think that's going to be very long with all the cash grabs happening, but I could be wrong.

If you still got scrolls of relic removal on reforge, would you care that they sold them in the store? If you could quest for Scrolls of Greater Empowerment on a daily or twice a week timetable, would it be so awful that they raised the price at skirmish barterers? If you could ignore the instance finder, run the skirmishes you chose, and get the same rewards as you did pre instance finder, would that be okay?

If crafting hadn't been severely nerfed at least four times in the past year, and you could craft bound to account gear as good as or better than what's in the store, would you care?

If virtues hadn't been completely changed so that you probably had to change three or four of the ones you already had to 10, would it matter that they sold virtues in the store?

To me - it wouldn't. Just like it wouldn't matter if they sold raid gear, or fully levelled characters in the store. Unfortunately, the path they've taken with the store is ruining the game. If they simply put items into the store without changing the game to the point where you pretty much need the store at certain points, I would have no problem with it. And I'd probably buy some cosmetics, to boot.

The store itself doesn't need to be a problem. The way Turbine handles the game to drive people to the store is killing the game. If they're doing it to grab as much money as they can for an early shutdown date, I understand. If they aren't, I have no idea why they're ruining LoTRO this way.

Originally Posted by Chanah

The store is going to be here as long as the game is. I personally don't think that's going to be very long with all the cash grabs happening, but I could be wrong.

If you still got scrolls of relic removal on reforge, would you care that they sold them in the store? If you could quest for Scrolls of Greater Empowerment on a daily or twice a week timetable, would it be so awful that they raised the price at skirmish barterers? If you could ignore the instance finder, run the skirmishes you chose, and get the same rewards as you did pre instance finder, would that be okay?

If crafting hadn't been severely nerfed at least four times in the past year, and you could craft bound to account gear as good as or better than what's in the store, would you care?

If virtues hadn't been completely changed so that you probably had to change three or four of the ones you already had to 10, would it matter that they sold virtues in the store?

To me - it wouldn't. Just like it wouldn't matter if they sold raid gear, or fully levelled characters in the store. Unfortunately, the path they've taken with the store is ruining the game. If they simply put items into the store without changing the game to the point where you pretty much need the store at certain points, I would have no problem with it. And I'd probably buy some cosmetics, to boot.

The store itself doesn't need to be a problem. The way Turbine handles the game to drive people to the store is killing the game. If they're doing it to grab as much money as they can for an early shutdown date, I understand. If they aren't, I have no idea why they're ruining LoTRO this way.

The store could have worked, but Turbine got too greedy and this is what we have now. They have lied to us, gone against things they have said, and this will continue to happen. Turbine focus so much on the store and making money that just goes back into the store again. The increased revenue from free to play, and Isengard being their best selling expansion ever; when will we see that money put into the game and not the store?

I don't like being lied to, I don't like bieng told that as a customer this company can do anything and not care about me. Turbine will continue to lie and decieve everyone until people finally see sense and stop giving money to these greedy, disgusting people. Some people have already seen what Turbine are doing to this game and have voted with their wallets, much the same as I have done, but others are still blind as to what is happening.

Would I stay? No. In fact, there's a very good chance that I won't stay if even what they have in the store now remains.

Pay to Win and non Pay to Win player bases are not compatible. That's a simple fact. You can't cater to both, you have to choose. As soon as Pay to Win goes in, the game is Pay to Win, period.

No doubt Turbine will get plenty of new players with Pay 2 Win, but they won't be most of the same players in the game now. The vast majority of current, long time players will move on because they didn't sign up for a Pay to Win game.

Originally Posted by Gelydh

The store could have worked, but Turbine got too greedy and this is what we have now. They have lied to us, gone against things they have said, and this will continue to happen. Turbine focus so much on the store and making money that just goes back into the store again. The increased revenue from free to play, and Isengard being their best selling expansion ever; when will we see that money put into the game and not the store?

I don't like being lied to, I don't like bieng told that as a customer this company can do anything and not care about me. Turbine will continue to lie and decieve everyone until people finally see sense and stop giving money to these greedy, disgusting people. Some people have already seen what Turbine are doing to this game and have voted with their wallets, much the same as I have done, but others are still blind as to what is happening.

Indeed!

I went however further then just not giving them my money anymore. I not play at all anymore.
Always should have that disgusting feel how Turbine acts in the back of my head while playing my toon.
That is not immersion, that is masochism, so the heck with it!

And the rest who are not happy but are not capable to quit for one reason or the other and even let this one yet slide again, well, they deserve every bit of it what Turbine will throw at them in the future.

Hail to the Eve-online community who have what it takes to let the devs see reason!
That is prolly where I am going if that game suites my needs(Reading about it ATM), because a community like that perfectly fits my bill.
Knowing that if the devs badly screw up that the community not gonna let it slide like this community does time after time, so that is quite a secure feeling for a long run in that game for me.

There's a line that Turbine will cross with me as far as pay-to-win content available on the LoTRO store is concerned. Top-tier raid armour would definitely cross that line. When that day comes, I'll cancel my sub and go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Gelydh

The store could have worked, but Turbine got too greedy and this is what we have now. They have lied to us, gone against things they have said, and this will continue to happen. Turbine focus so much on the store and making money that just goes back into the store again. The increased revenue from free to play, and Isengard being their best selling expansion ever; when will we see that money put into the game and not the store?

I don't like being lied to, I don't like bieng told that as a customer this company can do anything and not care about me. Turbine will continue to lie and decieve everyone until people finally see sense and stop giving money to these greedy, disgusting people. Some people have already seen what Turbine are doing to this game and have voted with their wallets, much the same as I have done, but others are still blind as to what is happening.

This is exactly it. The store could have worked. There are f2p and buy-to-play (closer to what LoTRO is with subscriptions, I'm convinced, going the way of the dodo bird, so you buy the content to play it) that have managed to make money and keep their games updated without wrecking the game, the stealth nerfs, the added grinds, the 'mis-statements by public relations people'.

Make no mistake, I'm not crazy about the way it's gone, either. To the point where I seldom log in anymore, maybe because I remember what the game was, and how they've managed to poison it with the store. And that never had to happen. It doesn't even have to happen now, but I doubt they'll change their ways.

And yet, because it's buy-to-play, I have 13 toons, 9 of them max guilded crafters, and own all but one of the quest packs. So I can't really quit. I can and have stopped giving them money, did that around the time Isengard came out (and didn't buy it).

Don't know if that made any difference - just me alone, no, i'm sure it didn't. But I doubt I'm the only one. That Turbine has chosen the path of most alienation to try and fight the trend - that's just stupidity. Unless, of course, the shutdown date is planned, and in a couple or six months when we go to log in, the game simply isn't there anymore.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that I believe this is right or ethical; I don't. It just seems to be the way that Turbine decided to play. I've always marvelled that upper management invariably comes with such a large helping of stupidity.

From a posting in a sister thread:

http://www.gamefront.com/lotro-gets-...level-players/

It's not that far off ...

Turbine’s Director of Communications, Adam Mersky
“Furthermore, we have no intention at this time of selling any raid gear in the store.”


Emphasis is mine but they said something about no armour with stats and convienience not advantage too and it wasn't that long ago either.

Putting statted armor in the store is a big move for this game-- for any game that never previously had it, really. I'd think that whoever came up with the idea would be proud of it, want to let it be known. They'd want ads to promote it-- whenever any store comes out with a brand new product line, they advertise it, that's how sales are made. That wasn't done with this product line. No fanfare. So why offer a product you're not proud enough of to advertise?

So here we see damage control: "no raid gear at this time". That doesn't seem to me to be taking pride in your new product. I mean, offering level 20 armor, and not taking it any further makes no sense in any scheme of things, so we know, it's so damn obvious, that top-tier gear is coming. But they work on damage control, spin. If you're not proud enough of your product to not advertise it, and feel it's necessary to work spin and damage control, why have the product?

Originally Posted by Lotroien

Indeed!
Hail to the Eve-online community who have what it takes to let the devs see reason!
That is prolly where I am going if that game suites my needs(Reading about it ATM), because a community like that perfectly fits my bill.
Knowing that if the devs badly screw up that the community not gonna let it slide like this community does time after time, so that is quite a secure feeling for a long run in that game for me.

Just make sure you get all you can out of your trial period, because it's most definitely not a game for everyone. I enjoy it, but it's pretty much a love it or hate it type of game for most, hehe.

Also, the community there is a little different because there really isn't an alternative to EVE (Perp still doesn't count), so everyone feels bonded in a strange way, even though a lot of people hate each other's guts. And while that's a good thing for them, it can't really happen in a game like lotro.

But I hope you like it. And watch those scams.

Originally Posted by SabrielofLorien

From a posting in a sister thread:

http://www.gamefront.com/lotro-gets-...level-players/

It's not that far off ...

Turbine’s Director of Communications, Adam Mersky
“Furthermore, we have no intention at this time of selling any raid gear in the store.”


Emphasis is mine but they said something about no armour with stats and convienience not advantage too and it wasn't that long ago either.

Shortly after Isengard came out (too lazy to dig up the quote now) Celestrata posted that 'at this time, there are no plans to do away with subscriptions'.

You do the maths. I swear, 'at this time' has become some kind of Turbine-speak for 'as soon as we think we can get away with it, we'll do whatever we just said we weren't going to do'.

Originally Posted by Chanah

The store is going to be here as long as the game is. I personally don't think that's going to be very long with all the cash grabs happening, but I could be wrong.

If you still got scrolls of relic removal on reforge, would you care that they sold them in the store? If you could quest for Scrolls of Greater Empowerment on a daily or twice a week timetable, would it be so awful that they raised the price at skirmish barterers? If you could ignore the instance finder, run the skirmishes you chose, and get the same rewards as you did pre instance finder, would that be okay?

If crafting hadn't been severely nerfed at least four times in the past year, and you could craft bound to account gear as good as or better than what's in the store, would you care?

If virtues hadn't been completely changed so that you probably had to change three or four of the ones you already had to 10, would it matter that they sold virtues in the store?

To me - it wouldn't. Just like it wouldn't matter if they sold raid gear, or fully levelled characters in the store. Unfortunately, the path they've taken with the store is ruining the game. If they simply put items into the store without changing the game to the point where you pretty much need the store at certain points, I would have no problem with it. And I'd probably buy some cosmetics, to boot.

The store itself doesn't need to be a problem. The way Turbine handles the game to drive people to the store is killing the game. If they're doing it to grab as much money as they can for an early shutdown date, I understand. If they aren't, I have no idea why they're ruining LoTRO this way.

I could not give any more rep to you for your contributions to this thread. I also could not have said this any better than this right here. And your post sums up EVERYTHING I have wanted to say recently, however each time I start a post I am so upset I forget 1/2 of what I wanted to say, come up with 10 more things to say, and still don't feel I've truly gotten my feelings down right! There's just way too much BS being shoved at us by Turbine in the last year it's pathetic. I've said many times I would be happy to give them my money, as a founder with 2 lifetime accounts even, IF THEY'D SELL FUN instead of ripping me off what I've already been given every time they have some new offering.

Originally Posted by Ebyl

Just make sure you get all you can out of your trial period, because it's most definitely not a game for everyone. I enjoy it, but it's pretty much a love it or hate it type of game for most, hehe.

Also, the community there is a little different because there really isn't an alternative to EVE (Perp still doesn't count), so everyone feels bonded in a strange way, even though a lot of people hate each other's guts. And while that's a good thing for them, it can't really happen in a game like lotro.

But I hope you like it. And watch those scams.

Thanks Ebyl,

LOL, I rather deal with a strange community who ACT if the devs screw up then this community(Beside some exceptions) who let things easily slide after just lighting a firecracker on the forums to be honest.(hehehe)

Yeah, I read some a bit on the forums and it seems a though game to get IN to.
Challenging, but I do not mind that.

I downloaded that manual and is what, 400 pages or so? Holy smoke!
I first gonna read that stuff and some more on the forums before signing up to get a bit prepared.

But my overal (What i read so far) indication is that the community seem quite helpfull, and i read about those 60 day extended trial thingies what some long term players get and can give out to noobs like me LOL.

Not sure how it exactly works but saw on the forums that many players hand those easily out on request.

What scams you talk about if I may ask? You can PM me that if you want to answer because Turbine do not like talk in there forums about the competition and honestly not blame em for that too much and besides it is off-topic too. LOL

Thanks for the head ups, Appriciate it.

EVE is great if you can get into it. Guild Wars is still going, too - if you're in America, I expect the discs are dirt-cheap, if not, you can buy all three campaigns from the in-game store for 30$ - there's a free trial for 10 hours or a fortnight, whichever comes first, though the chat is somewhat limited with that.

No monthly fees, and the store sells the game and fluff - that's it. One thing I love about it is that you can map anywhere in the game that you've discovered at any time with no cooldowns. Story, obviously, is lacking compared to LOTR (what story isn't?). It's still a fun, and amazingly grind-free game.

Community mostly helpful, a few 12-year-olds (or those who act like it), but on the whole, not bad.

The whole thing really is about revenue. If people want to make "time" spent in game to be worth something then the business should start charging by the hours played.

Early online RPGs such as Simutronix charged $6 per hour in the evening, $12 per hour during the day because internet services like GEnie charaged like those fees. The top players in game were often CEOs or rich folks.

It wasn't until Ultima online that the first mass friendly business model appeared. The top players in game became kids who had a ton of time to play after school. Gaming atmosphere changed as a result. People with lots of time on their hands became the top players in these games.

What people with lots of time on their hands have gotten used to, and want, is to have other players who don't have time to play to subsidize their gaming pleasure, and that model has now been shown to be somewhat needing an adjustment, being games like Everquest which focused on grind are failing with casual players leaving.

The business model Turbine is experimenting now is to charge by the amount of in-game reward people obtain. This is a content-reward-based business model. Casual players may pay their way to reduce grinds and reach the same status non-casual players get.

This is still a good deal for the non-casuals, because casuals are footing the bill.

Next model may change some more. I personally would like to see the ITune model where people can buy a quest complete with reward and decide for themselves if they want to play it or just click to get the reward. It's all entertainment for pay. If you go to a movie, the standard fee entitles you to approximately 2 hours of entertainment, which is also time based.

Let's not be so emotional and call gaming companies names just for trying to figure out their own business model. If you go to Rite-Aid and they changed pricing on one of their merchandise its their right as a business.

With digital delivery, Zynga is going toward the small packages of content delivery for revenue model. It seems mmorpgs may be heading that way too. This is what Turbine Store is probably going to do. So, yes, raid gear may soon be for sale in the Store. I'm looking forward to it, just because it will be mass-market price eventually as the industry competition progresses. All of us can have lots of fun. Relax!

Those of you who really want your time spent to be worth something in-game, you will really need to find a game that will be able to survive on customers who are like-minded, and this game will need to charge you based on the time you spend. There is no way around it. All customers want fun, and when you have fun with someone else who don't have time to play paying the bill, the business will fail.

Honestly, if you feel poetic about the spiritual Tolkien world which you can spend endless time in and achieve something for your soul, then please be soulful and think for the devs who have to provide that environment for you and still go home and feed their kids.

What would you do for the devs when other players who don't have time to play leave the game to seek something that's worth their money spent?

Well, be ready to pay by the time you spend in game. Hours played. That is fair to the devs who will provide this "effort"-based game, because when you say "effort", you mean "time" spent in game. Players who don't have time should not be paying your bill.

Originally Posted by Chanah

Shortly after Isengard came out (too lazy to dig up the quote now) Celestrata posted that 'at this time, there are no plans to do away with subscriptions'.

You do the maths. I swear, 'at this time' has become some kind of Turbine-speak for 'as soon as we think we can get away with it, we'll do whatever we just said we weren't going to do'.

Or because they reserve the right to change their minds....

I want a new shinny armor LI with 35K Morale, 29K Power that shoots bolt of lightning stunning all the mobs in a mile radius for 24 hours, so I have plenty of time killing them and I want my sword to do 45K damage per hit....

A terrible idea.

Warner Brothers bean-counters have dollar signs in their eyes though. I have no doubt they were already considering ways to do it.

If Turbine/WB does not change their model, sooner or later those of us who grow tired of footing the bill for people who grind their way to "pride and ego" will simply pick another game to play.

Yeah I'm gonna reduce my spending in the store. Got a lifetime account anyway. I'll just loaf in the game and let others pay. Atm I'm buying mostly to help. That can stop easily.

I'd like to play the content of raiding without having to grind. Give me a good raid to solve with fun raiders who are all geared property enough to face this challenge. I'll buy it. Other than that, continuous grinding is only good for relaxation and chat. I can do that for free on my lifer account, and spend money when real content comes in another game.

Can anyone say Pay To Win or (P2W)? This is going to destroy the crafting, why to craft when you can buy a better version on the store?

Crafting and professions will suffer because after the armors are in the store, everything else in the game will be in the store.

Originally Posted by Kantaryo

Can anyone say Pay To Win or (P2W)? This is going to destroy the crafting, why to craft when you can buy a better version on the store?

Crafting and professions will suffer because after the armors are in the store, everything else in the game will be in the store.

There are many ways to solve this. One is to allow purchase of raid gear only after you defeat the tier 1 raid.

Originally Posted by Kantaryo

Can anyone say Pay To Win or (P2W)? This is going to destroy the crafting, why to craft when you can buy a better version on the store?

Crafting and professions will suffer because after the armors are in the store, everything else in the game will be in the store.

"Pay to Win" is a meaningless term. There is no winning in this game so what exactly are you paying for?

If they add high end armour, do you think it will be cheap? How many TP did the level 20 set cost? Wouldn't you expect that a set of 75 armour would cost a lot more? How many people per server do you think will spend 5000 TP or more for it?

There will still be a market for crafted armour.

So let's say people did say they need more armour for the 20-30 levels. Is the best solution *really* store bought armour?

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

So let's say people did say they need more armour for the 20-30 levels. Is the best solution *really* store bought armour?

It is one solution. People are always able to shop in the AH for a reasonable price. The store gear can be a safety net if none is found in the AH; or for others who would rather not deal with the AH, nor crafting.

Dual accessibility for raid gear as well. For those who wish to grind for it, there will be a way to grind.

Originally Posted by Perenth

It is one solution. People are always able to shop in the AH for a reasonable price. The store gear can be a safety net if none is found in the AH; or for others who would rather not deal with the AH, nor crafting.

So if this is the case, equal competition between store and AH, or as you call it, a safety net, then why is the store armor introduced with such a significant increase in armor value? Lay aside for a moment the other stats and the run speed bonus on the boots, look just at the armor value-- why offer level 20 armor with an armor value just slightly less than level 28 if the store is a supposed safety net? Shouldn't they be equal in value?

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

So let's say people did say they need more armour for the 20-30 levels. Is the best solution *really* store bought armour?

I dont know, I know they have tried other options. The repeatable quests in bree and the lone lands where you get single use recipies, crit items and shards was a way they tried to make more good low level armor avalible. I think one of the problems is that at lvl 20 a lot of brand new players have not formed a close relationship with other players yet. Just last week I made a full set of heavy lvl 20 armor for a kinnie that was leveling up a Guard. I knew he would be around for the long term. I dont know if I would be willing to do the same thing for a player that has been in the game less then a week.

As I said earlier, I really dont think the armor will sell that well. Its to expensive for how long you can use it. But if someone is new to the game it can make it fun for them. People are willing to pay $60 for a box for other games. There is no longer a box cost for LOTRO so this is just a way to get some money from new players. We dont want everyone to pay nothing, thats the fastest way to kill the game. Faster then selling things some of the players dont like.

Originally Posted by ThistleRose3

I dont know, I know they have tried other options. The repeatable quests in bree and the lone lands where you get single use recipies, crit items and shards was a way they tried to make more good low level armor avalible. I think one of the problems is that at lvl 20 a lot of brand new players have not formed a close relationship with other players yet. Just last week I made a full set of heavy lvl 20 armor for a kinnie that was leveling up a Guard. I knew he would be around for the long term. I dont know if I would be willing to do the same thing for a player that has been in the game less then a week.

As I said earlier, I really dont think the armor will sell that well. Its to expensive for how long you can use it. But if someone is new to the game it can make it fun for them. People are willing to pay $60 for a box for other games. There is no longer a box cost for LOTRO so this is just a way to get some money from new players. We dont want everyone to pay nothing, thats the fastest way to kill the game. Faster then selling things some of the players dont like.

You're right, they've tried doing other low-level quest based solutions, and even I just recommend players ignore the guild/crit 20s and craft at 21/22. The time investment just generally isn't worth it. And we don't want it to get to the point where no one pays for anything. They'd have to close the servers. I'd just want it the gear to be on par, not an advantage. Perhaps something like the moors 'grows with rank' gear would be better. it could be stated so it upgrades to the stat of the lower end quest gear, but it only works for 5-10 levels from purchase? They've got the gear curve.

Originally Posted by Eluros

What do you all think?

How good would Tolkien's books have been if Frodo was able to spend $20 for a Map to Mount Doom, ports there and drops the ring into the lava?

or if that analogy is too remote...

Next time instead of going to the movie and sit there for 1.5 hour, how about the producer just tells you the ending right away?

There is a real easy solution, make the armors that already exist in the skirmish shop available for the level 20 for free or very low price, so those at level 20 can use it. Maybe like an introducton for skirmish usage, you finish the first skirmish quest and you get the whole set of armor pieces. Now after level 20 you have to earn it.

I'm not the type of player that enjoys "grinding".
I have no interest in spending countless hours repeating the same instances over and over and over again, I want to go there once or maybe twice to enjoy the content, but then I want to move on to other adventures.
After a dozen times the place is old news, like a bubblegum that's had all its flavour chewed out, and is now only a hardened chunk of tasteless goo.
Maybe, given enough time, I might want to re-experience that content with an alt, or simply for the sake of nostalgia.

I don't want to pay for easely skipping past "old" content, I want to pay for more new content !
More awesome places to go, more cool things to do, more adventures, more enemies to pummel into the ground.
I'd much rather ther put in more warg skins/models and more areas they roam in, and more reasons to visit those areas other than grinding a warg-slayer deed, that I would be willing to pay for, not a slayer-deed scroll.

But increasing quality and quantity of the game to increase profits, seems to be ideals that Turbine have abandoned in favor of subterfuge and deceit to increase profits.

I think the best implementation of a role-playing experience in Middle Earth would be self-contained. There shouldn't even be ​a stupid store.

Originally Posted by ThistleRose3

How do you know its not true? Just because you dont want it does not mean that they did not get that feed back.

Not going to speak for that poster who you were asking, but it is simple :

PEOPLE DON'T TRUST THEM.

This line of low level players complaining about armor being too hard to find is the coming from the same group of people who said "Convenience Only", and "we will not sell items with stats in the store". And one doesn't have to be blindly naive, simply look around the forum. How many posts complaining about low level armor being too hard to find can you find? I tried. Want to guess how many I found?

There is being giving people the benefit of the doubt, and there is putting blinders on in the face of facts that one can look to ascertain. And THEN there are the track records of the group making claims and promises.

Originally Posted by LadyDena

How many posts complaining about low level armor being too hard to find can you find? I tried. Want to guess how many I found?

Doesn't mean the feedback wasn't there. There's an NDAed program, there's the fact that Turbine surveys random folks and then data-mines, etc.

I do feel it'd be good for Turbine to disclose where this feedback came from.

Originally Posted by ThistleRose3

I dont know, I know they have tried other options. The repeatable quests in bree and the lone lands where you get single use recipies, crit items and shards was a way they tried to make more good low level armor avalible. I think one of the problems is that at lvl 20 a lot of brand new players have not formed a close relationship with other players yet. Just last week I made a full set of heavy lvl 20 armor for a kinnie that was leveling up a Guard. I knew he would be around for the long term. I dont know if I would be willing to do the same thing for a player that has been in the game less then a week.

As I said earlier, I really dont think the armor will sell that well. Its to expensive for how long you can use it. But if someone is new to the game it can make it fun for them. People are willing to pay $60 for a box for other games. There is no longer a box cost for LOTRO so this is just a way to get some money from new players. We dont want everyone to pay nothing, thats the fastest way to kill the game. Faster then selling things some of the players dont like.

I've made a lot of armour for strangers in the game. If I see someone struggling, I inspect them, see what they can use, & go make them what I can, then mail it to them. (for me, that's... ok, everything... jewels, tailored armour, metal armour, weapons... it's almost sad, really) And I do it often. It's like being Lady Santa Elf.

There are many ways to get armour. Skirmishes, first of all. Those rewards could have been made better and/or cheaper to get in game. Crafting is a pain - guilded items are one item a week. (Of course, if I buy crafting packs, I can deck out my alts, can't I? I've done that enough!)

Quest rewards - bump up the quality, and there you go. Done & done. The store armour wasn't necessary. It cuts into the business of rising crafters, like the little hobbit mentioned some time ago. That's so obviously wrong - I cannot believe people are seriously condoning this. My only regret, and shame, is that I didn't think of it when it was another profession, like scholar or metalsmith (I have those, too, of course... but I didn't NOTICE)

Originally Posted by Abiyah

So if this is the case, equal competition between store and AH, or as you call it, a safety net, then why is the store armor introduced with such a significant increase in armor value? Lay aside for a moment the other stats and the run speed bonus on the boots, look just at the armor value-- why offer level 20 armor with an armor value just slightly less than level 28 if the store is a supposed safety net? Shouldn't they be equal in value?

To me it's best to not exceed crit craft gear of the same level. Equal, but don't exceed it. But it will mean buying every few levels. I'm guessing Turbine wants the gear to last for a bit for the player. Those low levels can fly. I've seen someone fly from 14 to 40 in 4 days.

Originally Posted by Crazydwarf

I'm not the type of player that enjoys "grinding".
I have no interest in spending countless hours repeating the same instances over and over and over again, I want to go there once or maybe twice to enjoy the content, but then I want to move on to other adventures.
After a dozen times the place is old news, like a bubblegum that's had all its flavour chewed out, and is now only a hardened chunk of tasteless goo.
Maybe, given enough time, I might want to re-experience that content with an alt, or simply for the sake of nostalgia.

I don't want to pay for easely skipping past "old" content, I want to pay for more new content !
More awesome places to go, more cool things to do, more adventures, more enemies to pummel into the ground.
I'd much rather ther put in more warg skins/models and more areas they roam in, and more reasons to visit those areas other than grinding a warg-slayer deed, that I would be willing to pay for, not a slayer-deed scroll.

But increasing quality and quantity of the game to increase profits, seems to be ideals that Turbine have abandoned in favor of subterfuge and deceit to increase profits.

I'm with you on that one. In fact, I'd like to see raid-quality gear that comes with a quest package containing the gear and the raid. It will mean new content. The thing here is to distribute development cost. Raid lover can then pay for raid packages and enjoy that new content.

There can be NPCs in the existing world that will only give you the quest if you own a certain quest package. Such as a quest for a specific mount, or cosmetic outfit.

There are lots of different types of activities that can be distributed this way. New content ftw. And development cost will be shared more fairly by those player who choose to do their own favorite content.