Thread: An Argument For Top-Tier Raiding Armor in Store

Greetings,

tl;dr:
If Turbine were to add top-tier raiding armor into the LOTRO Store, would it affect how you play (or don't play)? Would you buy it? Would you be opposed to it?

Long Version:
So, it seems feasible, at this point, to say that Turbine could implement top-tier raiding armor in the LOTRO Store, at this point. We have armor with stats that is generally better than what else is available at that minimum level, and there's no technical reason why they couldn't put the best armor in the game in the store.

On the one hand, it would certainly mean that you can buy your way to good gear. That being said, is that a bad thing? If Player X wants to group with his friends but doesn't have time to raid, it isn't hurting anyone-- it's actually helping his fellow players, as he'll be able to contribute more to the group.

It would mean that there'd be less competition for gear since some people already have it, and thus individual raiders have a better shot at winning rolls.

I'm not proposing that store gear would be better than raid gear, so this wouldn't devalue raid gear. You perform equally well, regardless of where you gear came from. It's the stats that matter.

It could allow Player Y, a poor player, to acquire top-tier gear, but I don't think that'd be any different than current setups. Some classes can fly under the radar, even in raid settings, and get their gear. Player Y, the poor player, would still be found out pretty quickly in a group, despite their top-tier gear.

Basically, I see pros to it, and no cons. I'm able to come up with responses to the objections that come right to mind.

What do you all think?

EDIT: I also don't think it fails the old "Convenience vs Advantage" test. It's all available in-game through clear, non-grindy processes. It's a convenience, but wouldn't put you above others.

Well, it would be convenient to have top-tear raiding armor.

I play solo most of the time but I still wouldn't invest real money on store bought gear. It would have to be dirt cheap for me to buy.

I think a lot of people would buy though but I see this creating a problem with some players as many people enjoy the armor grind and that is what they are playing for. They want to have what is difficult to obtain. Gear that no one else has. If Turbine was to make the same gear available in the store then I think a lot of those people might get mad and leave the game. So, while turbine would gain revenue from the store they may lose money overall because of lack of subscriptions which in turn would lead to fewer purchases of point packs, expansions etc.

I think this would also put another nail in the crafted gear coffin as well.....

No accomplishment, another wanting god mode by CC.

No gain with out pain, that is what MMO raiding is about, not how well you are paid. If it's there in the store then those with a lot cash will buy it. So whats the point in playing if all you are going to do is buy everything you need.

Go buy an offline RPG and cheat with the console commands.

It most certainly would affect me... as it would make the people around me tougher. making content i run easier and wasting less time with picking up the slack of other people. while i like a challenge, i like my challenges (in game) when solo, not when in groups.

but as for minding? i do not care.

I have always felt, since i started MMOs in 1997, that there should be options to allow players with limited time to compete. if it comes down to $, so be it. I see no difference between people with lots of free time and people with lots of money. neither are any more entitled than the other, in my mind.

I am not a greedy person. I am also not an elitist. so, i could care less if the game just handed people good gear. i learned long ago not to "try" for things in MMOs, because all i really get is disappoinment. i play my game, hang with friends, and find the good stuff just comes to me.

give everyone the same epic gear, i dont care. i dont need to be special and show off my stuff.

Stop giving them store ideas, they have a whole team dedicated to this.

.......Really?

The idea with this game is to do quests and deeds. You get rewarded for your effort with money and gear. Why spoil it?

Why should it stop with armor in the shop? Heres some ideas.

-Top tier weapons.
-All virtues.
-All deeds done.
-Kindred to everyone.
-Why not level to 75 at once.

-All the above in a bundle!!

Why dont we just skip all this leveling stuff and start at 75 with the best gear in the game?

You may want to define "poor" player in relation to buying end-game/raid armor in the store. The sets offered now, for level 20, are 1040tp, or roughly $10. What cost for end-game? And what cost in between the level 20 set and the end-game set? Surely they won't offer just the two. There you might find your alternate definition for "poor" player.

To me, it's an ethical thing. It's far too easy to put your entertainment on a credit card. There is quite a large segment of society already in credit debt; one of the largest segments is the early years following university. That's a typical "gaming" age, with no real grasp yet on what debt actually means for the future.

The statement can be made, "Well, it's not my fault they went into debt", or" "It doesn't affect how I play the game". Perhaps not. But the ethical question needs to be asked of oneself, "What is my money supporting?" If the answer is your own entertainment, this being a Massive Multi-player game should give you pause. If your entertainment dollars are being spent on a solo player game, then you can look to your own entertainment.

Perhaps being in my mid-60s gives me a different perspective. But encouraging a company that shows poor ethical values is never a good thing.

I think the con (if there is one) would be many players will quit, although I also think it wouldn't probably be all that many in actuality as a % of player base..I mean with store pots and stat tomes its not like you can't buy extra healing/power & +70 to each main stat so yea why not. We probably all kinda think in the back of our minds it will happen eventually anyway, it's just a matter of how long it takes.

I wonder at how much they are making from cosmetic steeds actually, they should probably make the many coloured one 175% of run speed and sell one the same in store just so the store doesn't exceed the game. I figure with the next level cap increase they could probably get away with adding 3 more stat tomes so you could get +100, it might be overly game breaking at early levels of course but you can always gate it behind a lvl I guess (maybe they are already I never look). Of course, none of this is buying advantage because TP are obtainable for free and therefore anything obtainable in store is obtainable for free, despite there being no realistic time basis for such a comment, for most people anyway, they are covered.

I say go nuts and do it, I always say if you are going to ballz it up, at least do a good job of it. It feels kinda half-hearted at the moment.

Originally Posted by Sharachan

The idea with this game is to do quests and deeds. You get rewarded for your effort with money and gear. Why spoil it?

Why should it stop with armor in the shop? Heres some ideas.

-Top tier weapons.
-All virtues.
-All deeds done.
-Kindred to everyone.
-Why not level to 75 at once.

-All the above in a bundle!!

Why dont we just skip all this leveling stuff and start at 75 with the best gear in the game?

why not?

the only reason i can see against any of this is the "haves vs. have-nots"

im confident enough to be ok with giving everyone easy access.

i do not see how this could affect anyone's good time unless you just like to hold things over people or want the recognition.

whatsmore, people act like in-game achievments are special or matter. are you going to put this stuff on a resume or something? seriously, why do people care? i mean this sincerely... do you feel it diminishes your accomplishments? trivializes your game? i just cant get my head around why people care so much!

Originally Posted by Abiyah

Perhaps being in my mid-60s gives me a different perspective. But encouraging a company that shows poor ethical values is never a good thing.

Excellent post, you made it as I was posting mine, unfortunately I doubt my encouragement or lack of it makes a difference, Turbine probably has enough players in the store "it's free anyway" -as they click on quick buy- mentality that the dollars will win.

One of the issues I have with the current Store armour is that it can be equipped at level 20, but offers stats that are roughly equal to crafted level 28 armour. (The exact level of in-game armour this gets compared to varies depending on who does the comparison, but I think level 28 is about right.)

Now think that through... The current raid armour is aimed at characters at level 75, isn't it? So a Store version of the raid armour would be comparable to what? Level 80 in-game armour? Maybe even level 85 in-game armour?

It doesn't actually make any difference by how much this armour would be better than the level-cap in-game armour. If it is better, there will be some people somewhere that think that it's not worthwhile to play without that armour. And that it isn't worthwhile either to group with people who don't have this armour.

I don't like the Store armour having better stats than in-game armour of the same level. I think this point will only become more problematic as Store armour becomes available to characters of higher levels.

I'd like to see better armor in the store than can be gotten in game. If I'm paying more I should probably get more. Right?

Also can you add better jewelry, legacies and relics (wait that ones there) to the store as well. I hate playing the game to gear out so I can play more of the game.

/sarcasm

I am enjoying non-microtransaction games right now. I only log in to lotro to raid...and even that is getting tougher and tougher to justify. I would love Lotro if it weren't for the store [edit: i also hate stealth nerfs and the post-RoI warden]...oh well.

As an argument against these in the store:

I think it comes down to "What is the end-game?" and "what are the rewards for that end-game?" If character advancement, gear acquisition, etc. are the end game of LOTRO, then as a company you're shooting yourself in the foot by offering these rewards via monetary purchase. When you sell the final reward, then you've missed every opportunity along the way to sell that product and you risk alienating anyone who is working towards that end-game reward and they will stop along the path. Also, the risk in the price point of the items would be too high as a mistake at that point can ruin any number of areas.

If the game were primarily PvP focused and ranking, leaderboards, kin/clan reward focus etc. were the end-game, then gear would be just a path towards the end-game and it would be different. But as long as the end-game rewards lie with Raiding Armor, weapons, & gear, it would just be foolish to offer them via monetary purchase.

Originally Posted by Abiyah

It's far too easy to put your entertainment on a credit card.

Yep, and I've changed from swiping LOTRO to anything that is NOT Turbine/WB.

Even Lifetimers/premiums/f2p folk can as well.

Skyrim has afforded me 180 hours on my first character, with better graphics and AI.

Got agreat deal on a few other games (Non MMO) as well.

I feel my 70$ spent on other options outweighs what could have been another 75$/mo habit in LOTRO.

At least the other games don't want me to pay them more for stuff that I can't make ingame.

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

why not?

the only reason i can see against any of this is the "haves vs. have-nots"

im confident enough to be ok with giving everyone easy access.

Also a valid point, however, some people take pride in acheivement, I mean sure, to you and me this isn't obviously an olympic sport, but if I was an olympian I'd probably be a bit miffed if someone could buy my title and parade a gold like it was theirs when I'd won it, and you could argue this sorta happens but I would find it even more annoying if another olympian got to start 20 meters further down the track because he had more money than me.

If Turbine was online chess, you could buy extra moves if it looked like your opponent was going to check-mate you.

Why would Turbine negate its endgame like this? The LI and gear barter system exist the way they do for a reason. The whole point of endgame is to get and keep people on that treadmill spending hours on end grinding out them LIs and chasing those must have pixels in raids. It keeps them logged in, keeps them spending tp on those LI scrolls, keeps the subs and money rolling...so on so forth. Every so often, they hit the reset button on all that madness with an expansion and the whole cycle begins anew.

I could see them adding more rip off stats gear to the store in the oh so benevolent interests of "helping people level faster." It's why all those xp items/boosts exist, and to me the stats gear is an extension of those items. They're not there to help you enjoy the journey, they're there so you can get to end game faster where supposedly "the real game begins." In that vein, expect more leveling stat gear...it's coming. But I really do not see the long term financial incentive in destroying their endgame by putting in top tier raiding armor in the store. Why go through the grinds if you can just buy armor in the store? Would you stick around and spend more money after you've bought your set? Maybe, maybe not.

Until Turbine comes up with an endgame that appeals and benefits all manner of players (raiders and casuals alike) this is all the endgame we'll ever get in this game. Grinds are all they're capable of banging out at the moment.

So what's wrong with buying gold, again? Why not just hand us a fully loaded max level character, of whatever class we want, & if we don't like it, let me pay to get another class?

This is just sad.

Originally Posted by Sharachan

Why dont we just skip all this leveling stuff and start at 75 with the best gear in the game?

Well, it would leave time for tea with Sauron

So, the plan then is, I join this game day 1 and can BUY max level/gear...

Am I the only one that sees a huge flaw here?

What happened to lvl 1-74? Or 84 or whatever is under the next highest best?

What happens to the fun?

It's gone.

Well why not, the graphics engine and AI are ages behind anyway. Turn the game into a FB browser game and be done.

Hehe, OK I'll play...

Originally Posted by Eluros

If Turbine were to add top-tier raiding armor into the LOTRO Store, would it affect how you play (or don't play)? Would you buy it? Would you be opposed to it?

This would likely spell the absolute end of my time with this game.

Originally Posted by Eluros

and there's no technical reason why they couldn't put the best armor in the game in the store.

Technically, you're correct. They have the tech to do this. The larger question is do they have the desire to invalidate the largest end-game grind in the game? My guess is no, simply because it would reduce the amount of time people spent playing the game. For lots of people, there would not be much more to do.

Of course, you have to ask is the bottom line activity on the servers or profits from the Store?
Sadly, it's probably the latter now. In fact, I have little doubt of this.

Originally Posted by Eluros

On the one hand, it would certainly mean that you can buy your way to good gear. That being said, is that a bad thing? If Player X wants to group with his friends but doesn't have time to raid, it isn't hurting anyone-- it's actually helping his fellow players, as he'll be able to contribute more to the group.

No, not really. Bad players are bad players. Good players are good players. That's the real factor, not the gear. Unless you're in a raid, the armor you're wearing just isn't going to make much difference if the player lacks playing experience, sorry. It speaks nothing to ability, which is really the largest contributor to "the group".

Originally Posted by Eluros

It would mean that there'd be less competition for gear since some people already have it, and thus individual raiders have a better shot at winning rolls.

Heh, you out of the loop? We don't roll for armor anymore. Equal opportunity earning.

Originally Posted by Eluros

It could allow Player Y, a poor player, to acquire top-tier gear, but I don't think that'd be any different than current setups. Some classes can fly under the radar, even in raid settings, and get their gear. Player Y, the poor player, would still be found out pretty quickly in a group, despite their top-tier gear.

So you invalidate your previous claim that they would better contribute to a group on your own - lol. You also have evidently not run Orthanc (or probably even OD) where a "poor player" could no longer fly under the radar. That pretty much ended with BG.

Originally Posted by Eluros

EDIT: I also don't think it fails the old "Convenience vs Advantage" test. It's all available in-game through clear, non-grindy processes. It's a convenience, but wouldn't put you above others.

It is advantage and here's why: What is the most valuable commodity to the typical MMO player?

TIME

Time is the most valuable commodity. By removing the time required to grind the armor, the Store player may then move on to other things while the Legit player spends weeks grinding out the rest of their set. They fall behind and it takes them that much longer to "complete" their gear build - or tweak out their LI... whatever it may be. That is convenience as well as advantage in the eyes of most people I know.

That's why a large chunk of the Store indeed offers advantage as well as convenience.
Time, my friend. The Store sells a lot of time...

Of course, I have little doubt we'll see end-game quality armor in the Store before long.
I'd be more surprised if we didn't than if we did. The can of worms is already open...

Originally Posted by Anyelir

One of the issues I have with the current Store armour is that it can be equipped at level 20, but offers stats that are roughly equal to crafted level 28 armour. (The exact level of in-game armour this gets compared to varies depending on who does the comparison, but I think level 28 is about right.)

Unless there's a new level 20 armor set out there, level 28 crit-crafted is the only armor with comparable stats.

Now think that through... The current raid armour is aimed at characters at level 75, isn't it? So a Store version of the raid armour would be comparable to what? Level 80 in-game armour? Maybe even level 85 in-game armour?

I doubt they would go that far. Most likely they would let people buy gear equivalent to the teal Orthanc set at 60.

These are the cons I see:
1. It was promised that armor would not go into the store. Now while most people are able to accept that low level gear can be bought (though many are angry and annoyed), for it has little to no impact on any point in game play, high level raiding gear is a no go for many people regardless of whether the pro's outweigh the con's. Simply put, people don't want it therefore don't give it to them.

2. In my honest opinion the whole concept of raiding is to work with a group to defeat a particularly difficult challenge and in turn be rewarded for doing so. This is what drives those who hit level cap to keep playing (as well as alts). I for one look forward to hitting end game and then gaining armor pieces. Even when I hit level 20 I enjoyed running GB instances so that I could gain a decent armor set. The reward is what drives people to play any mmo. Deeds, virtues, titles, crafting,questing,levels and legendary items are all examples of why we play this game (not to mention the social aspect). By placing end game gear that is equal to that of raid gear I feel that it removes an incredibly large aspect of the reward system. Because: A) Beside social reasons what reward would one gain from dungeon or raid running? B) As stated earlier, the crafting system which in many ways is quite redundant (This isn't to say crafting is useless. It's still very useful and has its place.) takes a further metaphorical nail into that metaphorical coffin.

3. Also by placing such armor I believe that it does open the way to add high level jewellery, cloaks, pocket items, legacies, fully decked out LI's etc... Essentially I believe that once people get a taste they will want more and so by the end of it any person can buy their way to victory and eliminate the whole purpose of raiding and end-game. For once you have all the rewards Lotro becomes a social game which anyone can go play anywhere else with far better systems (mainly because Lotro was built to be an mmorpg not just a social online interaction game.) If I wanted to meet people and become friends, I would do it in RL rather than online. The fact that I can converse with people while gaining rewards and facing challenges is the reason I play. Personally I feel adding high end content eliminate one half of the reason I play and hence will most probably result in my leaving (as well as many others).

Unless the armor was worse than the gear offered by raiding I see no place for it in the store. If the gear was to be worse than that gained by raiding and equal to crafted gear I can then see a place for it being a convenience because those with little time can buy this armor without having to spend the time crafting nor spend the time questing/bartering it from rep vendors. Essentially if Turbine wants to place end game gear into the store, it will have to allow the average person to still gain gear that is better and not disrupt raid gear but allow them to gain gear that is just below that of raid gear and equal to that of the current quest gear so that they can enter the raid stage with gear that is suitable to run the raid but not outright buy the best gear available. In this way there is still a reason to engage in raid content and at the same time help those with little time to quest and gain reputation to enter the raid scene.

However drawing attention to my third con, I personally believe that we should attempt to stop a chain reaction of end-game gear being released into the store as soon as possible and if that comes at the expense of those with little time then so be it. As far as I can see it, if we don't add it into the store, those with little time will just have to spend longer periods of time without doing raid or will have to find a nice kinship that will allow them to enter and help them get to where they need to be. In my opinion this is not a bad thing but just something that is. This may seem alarmist but I would rather be safe than sorry and I personally just do not trust any companies, for their goals of money are not the same as mine which is enjoyment.

Shouldn't this topic be in the Store section?

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

why not?

the only reason i can see against any of this is the "haves vs. have-nots"

im confident enough to be ok with giving everyone easy access.

i do not see how this could affect anyone's good time unless you just like to hold things over people or want the recognition.

whatsmore, people act like in-game achievments are special or matter. are you going to put this stuff on a resume or something? seriously, why do people care? i mean this sincerely... do you feel it diminishes your accomplishments? trivializes your game? i just cant get my head around why people care so much!

What other players do is not something i care about. Unless they blind invite me...Hate that!

My concern is the development of the game. Why should Turbine spend all this money on keeping the lowlevels happy when you can buy everything in the shop?

Storeitems that make leveling faster, or help you grind out things are okay. You stil have to play the game. It is stil a game?

Originally Posted by Sharachan

What other players do is not something i care about. Another solo player

My concern is the development of the game. Why should Turbine spend all this money on keeping the lowlevels happy when you can buy everything in the shop? This thread is about skipping all the way to the end gear/level

Storeitems that make leveling faster, or help you grind out things are okay. You stil have to play the game. It is stil a game?

This game will be "join/max/end" in a very few months. If you think that's fun, cool.

I think it's a complete waste of Tolkien's ideas. The journey used to matter, now it's just $.

Originally Posted by Fipiara

I took the post as a "let's walk through all the arguments pro & con for raid armour sold in the store" and see where it leads and what answers can be gleaned from the discussion. With the various steps that have been taken in the LOTRO Store over the past 1+ year, it can seem as though that seeing raid armour in the store is potentially an inevitable conclusion and it would be nice to see clear arguments/reasons against that conclusion. The discussion can help some decide if this is a game worth sticking with for the long haul.

To you and Crell, as well as the others-- thanks for helping to see what I was getting at. I didn't want this to turn into a flame war, and thus didn't respond to certain posts, but I'm glad to see that some people understand where I'm coming from. I do think it's an important discussion to have. To be honest, when writing the post, I was surprised at the conclusions I was coming to; I thought I would be staunchly opposed to it, but after working through it, I'm unclear.

I'll mention that I've tried to give positive rep to a few folks in this thread, but it tells me I have to spread it around. Sorry about that. Agree or disagree, I appreciate a well-written response.

To those who have contributed so far, thanks.

To those who have stirred the pot, peace.

I'm starting to think a lot of people don't remember why games are played. It's not about sitting on top and having more than the guy next to you -- it's about engaging in a recreational activity that provides some relief from the stresses of day to day life. If you want that shiny piece of armour, play the game to get it. If the armour isnt worth the required steps to earn it, then don't. There is no entitlement to have everything in game, and it takes a commitment of time to earn things. Enjoy the game, and when you get to the point that you cannot (or, for many of us, when the game turns from recreation to a non-stop shopping trip) then go find something else to do for fun.

A big part of the appeal of a MMO should be community. Many people here go on about LotRO having one of the best communities around. I've met some pretty great people while wandering Middle Earth chasing after one bit of gear or another. So, think about "community" for a moment. Which is likely to be the better community:

1 -- People have to explore/fight/work for in-game accomplishments and gear. While doing so, they interact with other people, and for the time that they share a common goal their paths overlap. You know that people with a certain set of gear have put in the effort of a certain series of tasks. You know that people with certain gear have beaten specific challenges. Along the way you get to know each other, and going forward when someone needs a hand, there's a foundation for building upon. You rely on each other to accomplish things that can not be done alone, and you get to know each other.

2 -- People buy top-geared setups. They walk in expecting to hit the biggest newest raid, despite not truly understanding their class roles/skills/strengths/weaknesses, and understanding even less the other classes. No one needs anything, because it's all been bought, and no one will need anything going forward, because it will be bought. There is no shared adversity, and no shared victory. No one knows each other -- we are all NPC who can chat.

The problem of course is that #1 makes for a better game world, but #2 makes more cash with fewer demands. People in the #1 scenario will make M.E. their virtual home, and spend large amounts of time in it, actually playing content and expecting that content to work, and expect to have a progression to work through. They expect an immersive world where they can wander and play. They are playing a MMO in a virtual world.

People in the #2 scenario pop in, buy the top, play a bit and pop back out. When there is a new top, they will step back in, buy everything available, play a bit, and leave again. They are comfortable with skirmishes and disjointed instances, since an immersive world just wastes time and slows their trip down. They are playing a series of video games within an unnecessarily complex interface. Because of a lack of role/class understanding and a lack of commonality with other players, Turbine will have to release more simplistic content going forward.

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

I'm starting to think a lot of people don't remember why games are played. It's not about sitting on top and having more than the guy next to you -- it's about engaging in a recreational activity that provides some relief from the stresses of day to day life. If you want that shiny piece of armour, play the game to get it. If the armour isnt worth the required steps to earn it, then don't. There is no entitlement to have everything in game, and it takes a commitment of time to earn things. Enjoy the game, and when you get to the point that you cannot (or, for many of us, when the game turns from recreation to a non-stop shopping trip) then go find something else to do for fun.

A big part of the appeal of a MMO should be community. Many people here go on about LotRO having one of the best communities around. I've met some pretty great people while wandering Middle Earth chasing after one bit of gear or another. So, think about "community" for a moment. Which is likely to be the better community:

1 -- People have to explore/fight/work for in-game accomplishments and gear. While doing so, they interact with other people, and for the time that they share a common goal their paths overlap. You know that people with a certain set of gear have put in the effort of a certain series of tasks. You know that people with certain gear have beaten specific challenges. Along the way you get to know each other, and going forward when someone needs a hand, there's a foundation for building upon. You rely on each other to accomplish things that can not be done alone, and you get to know each other.

2 -- People buy top-geared setups. They walk in expecting to hit the biggest newest raid, despite not truly understanding their class roles/skills/strengths/weaknesses, and understanding even less the other classes. No one needs anything, because it's all been bought, and no one will need anything going forward, because it will be bought. There is no shared adversity, and no shared victory. No one knows each other -- we are all NPC who can chat.

The problem of course is that #1 makes for a better game world, but #2 makes more cash with fewer demands. People in the #1 scenario will make M.E. their virtual home, and spend large amounts of time in it, actually playing content and expecting that content to work, and expect to have a progression to work through. They expect an immersive world where they can wander and play. They are playing a MMO in a virtual world.

People in the #2 scenario pop in, buy the top, play a bit and pop back out. When there is a new top, they will step back in, buy everything available, play a bit, and leave again. They are comfortable with skirmishes and disjointed instances, since an immersive world just wastes time and slows their trip down. They are playing a series of video games within an unnecessarily complex interface. Because of a lack of role/class understanding and a lack of commonality with other players, Turbine will have to release more simplistic content going forward.

Well said!

Oh, I think 'stirring the pot' is necessary. That's how you get all the lumps out.

As a solo player I have to say no way.

If you play solo you don't need this stuff to play the rest of the content and there has to be some reason for people to do raids day after day and if you did get it what's left to aim for that has any value? With full raid kit you could do any other part of the game with your eyes closed.

If the game was to go down this route we will end up with the ablity to just purchase complete/full equiped lvl 75 accounts for TP.

No grinding no crafting...just pay to win even if you dont know what you are doing. nice might as well put everything in the store and i'll just go buy a symbol/sigil/fragments weapons etc... enough said. i earned all my gear!
everyone is free to pay!

If turbine believes that there is a demand for end game raid level armour in the store they will sell it and keep releasing new and better sets of armour in the store. Their focus will shift from creating new and challenging content for users to play through to just selling better items in the store which they can do far more easily.

The decision to sell gear has implications not just for the people that buy the gear. One is economic the other is moving from an mmo that is based around merit with players earning accomplishments/items toward one where accomplishments/items may/must be bought.

Items available only from lootboxes gambling was a concept that is rotten at the level of conception, Turbine followed it up with selling gear with stats at the store a short time later, breaking an earlier commitment not to do so. Sapience claimed it was in response to player feedback citing a lack of low level gear available. Perhaps staff would like to provide details of player demand? Was selling stat gear in the store the only way of sating this demand?

Basically you have a company going back on it's word and apparently lying about the justification for it.

Originally Posted by Eluros

Greetings,

tl;dr:
If Turbine were to add top-tier raiding armor into the LOTRO Store, would it affect how you play (or don't play)? Would you buy it? Would you be opposed to it?

Long Version:
So, it seems feasible, at this point, to say that Turbine could implement top-tier raiding armor in the LOTRO Store, at this point. We have armor with stats that is generally better than what else is available at that minimum level, and there's no technical reason why they couldn't put the best armor in the game in the store.

On the one hand, it would certainly mean that you can buy your way to good gear. That being said, is that a bad thing? If Player X wants to group with his friends but doesn't have time to raid, it isn't hurting anyone-- it's actually helping his fellow players, as he'll be able to contribute more to the group.

It would mean that there'd be less competition for gear since some people already have it, and thus individual raiders have a better shot at winning rolls.

I'm not proposing that store gear would be better than raid gear, so this wouldn't devalue raid gear. You perform equally well, regardless of where you gear came from. It's the stats that matter.

It could allow Player Y, a poor player, to acquire top-tier gear, but I don't think that'd be any different than current setups. Some classes can fly under the radar, even in raid settings, and get their gear. Player Y, the poor player, would still be found out pretty quickly in a group, despite their top-tier gear.

Basically, I see pros to it, and no cons. I'm able to come up with responses to the objections that come right to mind.

What do you all think?

EDIT: I also don't think it fails the old "Convenience vs Advantage" test. It's all available in-game through clear, non-grindy processes. It's a convenience, but wouldn't put you above others.

You know what else is available in game.....Gold.
But why stop there....power leveling would also be a convenience.

It seems as though people have disgraced Tolkien's work.

I want to thank you for helping me come to a decision. I am done with Turbine. I will never give one more cent to them.
Tolkien deserves better than this.

Originally Posted by Idiotvillage

The decision to sell gear has implications not just for the people that buy the gear. One is economic the other is moving from an mmo that is based around merit with players earning accomplishments/items toward one where accomplishments/items may/must be bought.

As I've said before (but not in this thread), this is no longer a game with a store attached; it's a store with a game as a drawing point.

Im trying to understand why it would be needed in the store.I see talk that the only reason raiders want the gear is to show off then why do soloers want it?Raiders want and in some cases need the better gear to make it through a raid.Why then would someone that doesnt need it want it?To show off maybe.

Ive also seen comments about making it easier to lvl but if some of you had been here a few years ago you would be going nuts.No restedxp,double the amount exp needed to lvl,half as much earned per quest or kill,no tiered content(it was all HM)no quest tracker,you HAD to fellowship to get the books done and a large chunk of quests.This game is already easy mode as it.

Hey, apparently this is feedback about the store now...

Anyways:

I don't see a problem with anything that's available (and I mean really available, not Stat-Tome-available) in the game being available in the store, provided they're identical. Put a TP value on time, figure out how much time it should take to get a given piece, and charge for probably double that.

Then again, I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys the content more than the rewards. Being able to circumvent the grind would have absolutely no impact on my enjoyment of the game.

I mostly agree with those who say this would be a Very Bad Idea.

However, I do have some empathy for alts. I think it would be good if more items were bound-to-account (so I could hand them down to alts). Or perhaps you could buy some gear off the store (though I'm mostly against that too) - only if you already earned the gear on one of your characters.

I want the game to be challenging, at least sometimes (it's already too easy in general), but I wouldn't object to making it easier for alts in some ways.

I also feel for those who are having trouble "keeping up", simply because they have real life responsibilities, and don't have enough time to play. I don't object to Turbine making it easier/faster for them (like the Inspired Greatness buff you get while doing the old epic quests solo). But I think there needs to be a lag time. I don't think you should be able to solo the epic content on the day it comes out (maybe a few months later, or when the next big patch is released).

So maybe it would be okay for Turbine to offer high-end gear in the store - as long as it was equal to the gear you could get in the previous expansion. For example, I don't think it would necessarily hurt the game if you could buy level 65-ish "BG quality" gear now, and it would make it easier for casual players to catch up.

If it earns them some money that they could invest back into the game for developing more content, that would be good. If it just goes to WB's bottom-line, well then why bother?

Alts could easily be geared by in game mechanics. That's one thing Blizzard did pretty well in WoW. (their main crime for me being the worst community I've ever encountered.) Let our top level characters earn account -bound gear for our lower alts. Problem solved.