Just seems that, of late, there's been a little more maligning of warg packs in the Landy Moors. Or maybe it's just the dislike is more outspoken than previously. Not sure which, and it doesn't matter, because either way I find it a generalization going with it that's just outright incorrect and lacking in insight.
Are there warg packs that camp rez circles and GV? Are there packs out there that repeatedly zerg the same solos and dous over and over? Are there packs out there that constantly avoid the big fights for the easier facerolls? Yes there are. I won't argue that.
But if I'm leading that pack, I can promise you it's not camping at GV or at a rez circle. Yes, we'll roll over the ocasional straggler or two, but if we hit the same solo more than two or three times, I prefer to let them go (with a few noteworthy exceptions). And I have few reservations about taking a pack against a group of freeps with numbers or power distribution that I think we can have some chance against. And that can include harassing a full freep raid, getting in for a couple kills and getting out. I don't mind getting a bloody nose or burned tail if it means I can also get some tasty freep bacon.
And as for assertions that a stealthed group is just an easy-out ticket to facerolling freeps? To put it plainly, there are some very capable freep raid leaders out there, and I employ stealth and surprise as tactics to match their tactics. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's part of the challenge.
Those of you who don't agree with warg packs as a matter of concept, that's your choice, and you likely aren't going to change your mind. But some of us see warg packs as more than a bunch of four-legged gankers out for easy inf.
I dont mind the warg packs when Im in the raid. I mean yes it can be frustrating to die but, hey Im a squishey and thats makes me a tasty target. If the raid doesnt panic and does what the raid leader says......more than not we give better than we get.
I do mind it when 6-8 wargs stealth into my blue keep and interupt my coffer farming session and kill me. Thats just plain rude.
Also, I dont enjoy getting nomed by 4, 5, 6 and up wargs when Im solo. Seeing as I dont even get a chance to get more than 1 or 2 skills off before I come out of the stun.
Maybe the wargs could agree to not knockdown/stun a solo target that they outnumber that greatly to give that solo at least a chance to fight back a lil.
I would REALLY love to see Turbine remove all grey bar skills from the Moors. Slows/roots fine but otherwise let me fight to the death dammit!!
I will still say #### about warg packs, because I have a warg that I play quite often lately, and Im solo 99% of the time and still get more kills than if I was in a warg pack. Also if I jump on a solo freep i give him/her challenge of 1v1, not 6v1, thats what makes pvp a good pvp. But unfortunetly some wargs lack skill so they create warg packs to get easy kills, I will admit that I avoid really good guards and good champs because I have no chance against them, but I never avoid 1v1 OP mini, or rk or lm or even burg and so on. Thats my 2 cents about warg packs.
Since I've been playing on my champ Eirred so much lately, I actually find the warg packs a fun challenge--maybe not as fun when I'm solo, but duoing or trioing those fights can be interesting. AOE! AOE all the things! XD
FD - Can't really argue any of your points and agree with most. Getting gray-barred to death is no fun for anybody, regardless of side.
Originally Posted by sarefx
I will still say #### about warg packs, because I have a warg that I play quite often lately, and Im solo 99% of the time and still get more kills than if I was in a warg pack. Also if I jump on a solo freep i give him/her challenge of 1v1, not 6v1, thats what makes pvp a good pvp. But unfortunetly some wargs lack skill so they create warg packs to get easy kills, I will admit that I avoid really good guards and good champs because I have no chance against them, but I never avoid 1v1 OP mini, or rk or lm or even burg and so on. Thats my 2 cents about warg packs.
And I like soloing with my warg just as much as I do grouping with others. Different challenge for either a different mindset at the time or freep numbers that, IMO, don't warrant forming up or both. I'm not the best soloer out there, but the fun is in trying anyway.
I encounter very few solo wargs nowadays; Arctic, Shakzat, Daizee, Dirtluk.... Most others are at least duo or running 3-4... of course its a guaranteed I'm pounced and near death by the time I can react. I'm still trying to figure out how to bind to a quickslot the /release command. So don't feel too bad Father. Just leave my scholar nodes alone
Why pick on wargs? Burgs seem to come in 2s and 3s these days, and then of course that well known phenomena of a minstrel pack (band, orchestra...idk) that happens daily - of and of course that hardy perennial the group of 'lets all stand in camo and gank any single creep at 40 meters' hunters....
Warg packs, of which there are remarkably less of than you think, go round in a group for a reason, because their targets are going around in a group - its causality. As for ganking solo players, they dont even own the copyright for that, let alone the monopoly!
I will still say #### about warg packs, because I have a warg that I play quite often lately, and Im solo 99% of the time and still get more kills than if I was in a warg pack. Also if I jump on a solo freep i give him/her challenge of 1v1, not 6v1,thats what makes pvp a good pvp. But unfortunetly some wargs lack skill so they create warg packs to get easy kills, I will admit that I avoid really good guards and good champs because I have no chance against them, but I never avoid 1v1 OP mini, or rk or lm or even burg and so on. Thats my 2 cents about warg packs.
(emphasis added)
So you will alter your solo play style and engage mostly when you have a good chance to win (or 'good' pvp), but those who group to increase their chance to win (or 'bad' pvp?) will receive your ire. How about the good guards and champs who always beat you? Should they avoid your warg and only engage in challenging fights? Are they bad at pvp when they engage a solo player that they know will not win?
So you will alter your solo play style and engage mostly when you have a good chance to win (or 'good' pvp), but those who group to increase their chance to win (or 'bad' pvp?) will receive your ire. How about the good guards and champs who always beat you? Should they avoid your warg and only engage in challenging fights? Are they bad at pvp when they engage a solo player that they know will not win?
Who says its about wining? When a freep engages a solo warg most of the time he trys to escape or fight back and win, or something else, but engaging warg pack guarantees a death in 99% of the time. And yes good guard can kill pro warg, same thing about good champ (with all bubbles) can kill a pro warg, you are saying I should engage them anyways? Fighting a good mini almost guarantees a death, but one lucky crit from me or unlucky crit from mini may bring me victory. Lets comeback to a topic warg packs, like I said before most of wargs creates warg packs so they can get easier kills, you seen arctic or dirt in warg pack? At least I gave you perspective of person who loves 1v1s and soloing.
Why, actually, yes, I HAVE seen some of those very skilled wargs in packs from time to time. Not all of them, but some. There are a number of other wargies out there who are very skilled soloers that group up into packs. A number of us that can and do get a good amount of inf on our own.
If it's grouping that's an issue, then is there a problem with RvR in general, or just the specialized type like a warg pack?
Why, actually, yes, I HAVE seen some of those very skilled wargs in packs from time to time. Not all of them, but some. There are a number of other wargies out there who are very skilled soloers that group up into packs. A number of us that can and do get a good amount of inf on our own.
If it's grouping that's an issue, then is there a problem with RvR in general, or just the specialized type like a warg pack?
I think the argument goes...where is the fun/fight about avoiding any conflict to run around with the intention of finding a target and kill it before it has a chance to do anything or fight back.
But it doesn't matter, keep doing it, it doesn't bother me. It will get old after a while and if that's all the warg does, that warg will filter off. The wargs I see that are still around are the ones who can solo.
-Kebelglash - Lvl 75 Rune-Keeper - Guardians of the Dagorlad
-Chans R7 War Leader, Chanakh R6 Warg <Agony> -Turak Stormbreaker - Lvl 75 Guardian
"Sam gave it back..."
I was informed this evening that aparantly one of my previous comments offended some of the wargs or someone somewhere.
I think but, am not sure it was my jest about a warg pack killin me in a blue keep.
That line was meant as a joke. A funny stab if you will. So, whoever it was that I made angry......I be sorry.
Tonight was again some great fighting.
And Zig zag, I dont know what I did to upset you but, /salute for being in my face all night long and your lil pet being a constant bother all night long. I think we both got to use one another as a jumping pad tonight. 8-)
By the way the pets name....... Winner is spelt like----->Winner NOT---->whinner. I know, creep side skools are working under budget and the enviroment is a lil harsh so, dont worry about it. Its a honest mistake. And I thnkyou for the flattery of nameing your ofspring after me.
(OK, so that no one gets their panies in a knot.......that right there at the end.....about the spider.....is me makin a joke. Trying to be funny.........my sense of humor.......NOT to be taken seriously.)
And I think I jumped up and down on a warg with spider in your name the other day......sorry it wasnt a corpse jump I was simply pointing you out to a friend as that KB got me my Veteran title. My bad. I did give you a grave marker right after that hoping you'd see I wasnt being a jerk. But, I can totaly see if you took it that way.
Anyway, big time /salute to creeps. You all put up one hell of a fight tonight.
...And yes good guard can kill pro warg, same thing about good champ (with all bubbles) can kill a pro warg, you are saying I should engage them anyways?.
No, you should play however you choose, much the same way that others players will play as they choose.
Originally Posted by sarefx
...Lets comeback to a topic warg packs, like I said before most of wargs creates warg packs so they can get easier kills, you seen arctic or dirt in warg pack?
I don't know most wargs so I can't comment on the intentions of most wargs.
Originally Posted by sarefx
...At least I gave you perspective of person who loves 1v1s and soloing.
I appreciate your perspective; I also try to appreciate the perspective of others as well.
Warg packs are fun when attacking fraids, and also necessary if the wargs are to have a chance at all. And to the cappy that thinks its just for easy kills, NO kills on freeps are easy for a warg anymore, highly ranked/experienced ones like Arctic and Dirtluk are the exceptions, though even they are saying none are really EASY. 3 Freeps, you included, run arround in your godmode-group and cant be killed by 6 fresh/low-ranked wargs without at least 5 of them dead too. Thats the norm in the Moors now. I group up with my tribe (mixed classes) and thats it, unless a keep-take is on. Id solo you, but you are never too far from your mini and champ friends, or a keep to run into after you popped LS.
People who hate what OTHER people do in a game forget that its just that, and that some of their own tactics and styles might not be welcomed by the other side.
Lets comeback to a topic warg packs, like I said before most of wargs creates warg packs so they can get easier kills, you seen arctic or dirt in warg pack?
In any pack larger than two or three, I generally find the infamy to be worse that solo. On top of that, my rating usually drops significantly. But seeing as I completely stopped caring about infamy or rating a couple ranks ago, yeah I pack up occasionally. Wargs are very social creatures.
Originally Posted by popnjay
Warg packs are fun when attacking fraids, and also necessary if the wargs are to have a chance at all.
A well led warg pack can provide amazing support for a main raid. Locking down targets and generally sewing chaos is just what we do.
Originally Posted by popnjay
And to the cappy that thinks its just for easy kills, NO kills on freeps are easy for a warg anymore, highly ranked/experienced ones like Arctic and Dirtluk are the exceptions, though even they are saying none are really EASY.
There are kills that seem easy. A lot of the times though, if you relent for even a second or two, you can be killed by even the worst player. Every single fight is a DPS race these days. Wargs were never the most survivable class, but today we may as well be defending ourselves with wet tissue paper.
"I've brushed with death so often, I should start giving him high-fives when I pass..."
"Take that lorebreaker! Behold the wrath of Tolkien!" ~Harumph
............There are kills that seem easy. A lot of the times though, if you relent for even a second or two, you can be killed by even the worst player. .....
lol.. and there are some that will never win .. ever :P
NO kills on freeps are easy for a warg anymore, highly ranked/experienced ones like Arctic and Dirtluk are the exceptions
Inexperienced players no longer get easy kills?? Turbine should do something about this immediately!
A tribemate killed a hunter/burg duo 2v1 yesterday on his warg. I'll have to inform him that the forums say he can't do that anymore.
Originally Posted by JohnnyManeuvers
I think the argument goes...where is the fun/fight about avoiding any conflict to run around with the intention of finding a target and kill it before it has a chance to do anything or fight back.
This. Warg packs have their time and place (I hop on my R7 warg and bring a couple with me when we're evicting people who exploit the dof drake) but multiple years on multiple servers and playing both sides has lead me to the belief that warg packs by and large are easymode and opportunistic. The people I see begging for warg packs when I'm creepside are garbage players who want easy kills.
I'm not someone who minds taking a death. Every death teaches me something and makes me better. But death to a warg pack only teaches the freeps to hug the npcs and the zergs so they might have a chance.
Landy, of course, has the chance to prove me wrong. All of the above are general points and not about the OP specifically since I don't know him. There IS the possibility I'm wrong. There's a first for everything.
So far the 6 wargs that kept jumping me weren't doing much in the way of PR.
And Father, I thought you were funny. Don't sweat the people with no sense of humor.
"The quest for excellence is a mark of maturity; the quest for power is childish"
Wargs exist for 1 purpose, to provide myself, and other captains as well, with a generous number of defeat responses.
Seriously though when people say that "it takes more than 6 wargs to take down a group of 3 freeps" they are not at all far from the truth. When I'm in a 3-man group it will probably take 12 wargs to take down the Canadian Command center. And that's only if they kill someone before I can SotD someone. Captain + RK + LM is probably the strongest small group freeps can run right now. If we get engaged with anything less than 12 creeps, then it's going to be extremely difficult to take us down. Add in a dps class for good measure and you have a true god-mode group.
This. Warg packs have their time and place (I hop on my R7 warg and bring a couple with me when we're evicting people who exploit the dof drake) but multiple years on multiple servers and playing both sides has lead me to the belief that warg packs by and large are easymode and opportunistic. The people I see begging for warg packs when I'm creepside are garbage players who want easy kills.
I'm not someone who minds taking a death. Every death teaches me something and makes me better. But death to a warg pack only teaches the freeps to hug the npcs and the zergs so they might have a chance.
Landy, of course, has the chance to prove me wrong. All of the above are general points and not about the OP specifically since I don't know him. There IS the possibility I'm wrong. There's a first for everything.
So far the 6 wargs that kept jumping me weren't doing much in the way of PR.
First, thanks for taking the time to point out that you're making some general points and still giving me the benefit of some doubt. For one thing, when push comes to shove, you aren't going to be completely wrong. The things you point out do happen out there. There's no denying that. And, like anything else, the rep of the whole gets shaded by the actions of some.
I'm not one of those who's asking for a pack. A good number of us don't. I can be just as content prowling on my own, even if I'm not on the same skill level as others out there. If I'm in a pack that I'm not leading, it's one led by a tribemate or another warg that I respect who invited me. If I am leading it, it's because I either took over from someone else or decided to start one to put up some stiffer resistance against the freeps. Quite frankly, I'm generally hesitant to put one together just because others ask (and I get a fair number of those requests, trust me).
Do I want to give freeps in general a bad day while leading a pack? Well, as far as making sure they know we're there with claws and jaws, yes. But that doesn't have to include ganking the same solo 10 times in 20 minutes, or camping rez circles. Personally, it's not my thing, and Hithy has made it clear that SWS members leading packs aren't to be doing that anyway.
And, like Arctic said, a really good pack is great support for a raid. Or, as happened the other night, itself made for the main resistance against the freep raid. We had both this week, and those were both fun and challenging.
Of course, some freeps do get repeatedly pounced, but that small number expects it and knows why (Budhorn, Vinny becuase he's a tough raid leader, and a few others, Dagr because he's just plain tough, and a few others). There isn't any one particular freep, though, that draws any personal ire or grudge from me (although I DO take a sick joy in taking down some of my hunter's kinmates, but they know that).
I'm not saying I'm not out there to get more inf for my warg. Of course I am. And I'm not trying to be some altruist. I just don't want to be arbitrarily generalized against or disrespected based on what others may or may not do. I want my rep as a pack (or general raid) leader to reflect my own actions. Mostly, I want to keep the fun in the game, else why bother at all?
Am I odd for not minding rez campers? Enough of the other side are eventually going to show up there to dispatch the campers. And if you really can't figure out any way out of the rez, thats just your own damn fault. You have 360 different directions to go, plus a map or two.
Pretty sure I got almost all of rank 8 burrowed by our own rez waiting for burgs to jump greenies. Rez campers can be very profitable.
"The quest for excellence is a mark of maturity; the quest for power is childish"
Am I odd for not minding rez campers? Enough of the other side are eventually going to show up there to dispatch the campers. And if you really can't figure out any way out of the rez, thats just your own damn fault. You have 360 different directions to go, plus a map or two.
Pretty sure I got almost all of rank 8 burrowed by our own rez waiting for burgs to jump greenies. Rez campers can be very profitable.
Big diff between 1 or 2 spiders at a rez cicrle and a pack of 5-6 (or more) wargs doing the same.
Am I odd for not minding rez campers? Enough of the other side are eventually going to show up there to dispatch the campers. And if you really can't figure out any way out of the rez, thats just your own damn fault. You have 360 different directions to go, plus a map or two.
Pretty sure I got almost all of rank 8 burrowed by our own rez waiting for burgs to jump greenies. Rez campers can be very profitable.
Yep. I completely agree with you. It blows my mind when someone complains that they can't get from point A to point B because someone is in their way. Go around.
"I've brushed with death so often, I should start giving him high-fives when I pass..."
"Take that lorebreaker! Behold the wrath of Tolkien!" ~Harumph
Also, I dont enjoy getting nomed by 4, 5, 6 and up wargs when Im solo. Seeing as I dont even get a chance to get more than 1 or 2 skills off before I come out of the stun.
!
Yes, cause running in a raid against a bunch of rank 0-4 creeps and camping them every single day at the rez, grams, or where ever else the freep zerg pleases is so much more manly and sporting.
In general:
Freeps take your freaking 1 death to 50 kills a bit more lightheartedly. Better yet, if you whine about a warg pack go play creepside (not a warg) a bit and see how much you like that. There is a reason more wargs are coming out and packing up, they are the only ones who stand even half a chance out there.
There is a reason minis and others who were never in the moors before RoI are now rank 7-9 <easy mode>
Yes, cause running in a raid against a bunch of rank 0-4 creeps and camping them every single day at the rez, grams, or where ever else the freep zerg pleases is so much more manly and sporting.
In general:
Freeps take your freaking 1 death to 50 kills a bit more lightheartedly. Better yet, if you whine about a warg pack go play creepside (not a warg) a bit and see how much you like that. There is a reason more wargs are coming out and packing up, they are the only ones who stand even half a chance out there.
Oh honey. You didn't read the thread, did you?
"The quest for excellence is a mark of maturity; the quest for power is childish"
Very good fights tonight and I thought warg packs did very well against us. Tough to deal with but that's the idea. I think peoples big problem is the greyed out insta death when solo, it does suck for both sides I imagine.
Anyway keep fighting the good fight all.
Out of all honesty, I've been in 1 or 2 of your warg packs and I can say there wasn't any targeting to a specific person going on or any camping. It was actually fun and a good experience because in the past years I've been in small warg packs but your warg packs have a bunch of people but yeah there are warg packs out there that do camp and target one person but to be honest they actually entertain me by going to such extreme measures just to kill me. Although, on the odd occasion I do get sick of it.
They did a good job eating our TWO minstrels we had last night.
And then they disappeared, lost interest, or something cause their numbers dropped to about half... and then we started to win instead of just trading kills. Guess it was bed-time for some?? It was around 10pm central by that point before we finally took TR and then we started chasing everything in TA that moved, aggroing everything in sight, jumped out the east side once, came back in.. finished some last remaining creeps off, cleared TA of everything but the quest room it looked like and then beat down the tyrant which was about an hour after TR got flipped.
As long as there are wargs, there will be people whinging about wargs... Just keep nomming them, sucks to be them.
The same goes with Minstrels.
Of course, if you're anything like Sars, who constantly ends up being a sacrifice to Kara at the end of all Keep-takes, I'd be just as scared and find a warg mount too...
Karathyn Thrace
Psycho Mania
Omnia illa et ante fiebant, omnia illa et ante fient
Ita dicimus omnes
Actually, I did read it. Hence, why I posted the way I did, as all my posts go that way these days. I'm here only to bring sunshine into the hearts of all.
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Originally Posted by sarefx
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