Thread: skirmish raids: dont fall for the classic noob trap as I did

I got swindled in a skirmish raid this weekend, and Ive decided to post this topic to warn you guys not to fall for the same trap as I did. I call it a noob trap myself, even though Im not exactly new to skirmish raids, I just mostly do them with a kin group where everyone plays fair. But yesterday I found out not all pug leaders are acting in good faith.

Here the trick he used. It was a attack at dawn raid, and I was on captain. When the boss was dead and it became time to loot the chest, he linked some heavy armour legs in chat. Can't remember the name but it was some high vitality piece. No one was rolling for them and I figured well they are pretty #### but might as well roll for them, who knows they might come in handy for some tanking build or something.
But after that the leader linked the highly desireable dwarf silver flask, which all the melee classes rolled for, including the leader, who was (obviously) a champ. I had the highest roll, but he just said, sorry only one piece per person.
See what he did there? Had I known there was a dwarf silver flask in the chest, I would have never wasted my roll on some ###### leggings obviously. But I didn't know, because the leader sneakily linked the ###### legs first. Heck, I didn't even know you could have only one piece per person, he never told us beforehand.

Afterwards I figured I could name and shame the culprit in global but Ive often seen that an exercise in futility, because you really can't prove anything so it usually ends in a trollfest with the culprits kinnies defending him even though they weren't there etc, and Ive even seen friends of mine getting banned for trying to warn the community about similar ninjalooters.

So I decided just to make this topic here, without naming the ninjalooter. A waring to all honest players here: If you ever pug a raid skirmish with a leader you don't know, always try to open the chest before the raid leader does, and call him out if he tries to hide something valueable! protect yourself and the rest of your group from wasting rolls!
As for me: Ive learned my lesson. The culprit is on my ignore list now, Ive also warned all my friends and kinnies not to join raids skirmishes where he is the leader and I myself will prolly not join any skirmishes anymore with I leader I don't know for sure I can trust. Luckily I know quite a few trustworthy raid leaders, so Im not at all restricted to kin raids only.

thank you for your time.

It's common courtesy now to have someone else loot the chest first and link all the items, especially since loot allocation is being hidden recently. Leaders could just give themselves the symbol and say there wasn't one because no one would see.

As you've said, loot the chest before the leader but also tell everyone in the raid exactly what's in there to stop sneaky leaders assigning things to themselves or putting poor loot up first.

lol I was in the raid. There was no bad intention and NO the leader never rolled on the item you mention because he has it for weeks, if not month =) How I know it - cause I sit next to him and he said: oh look my pocked nice for the champs here. And thats 2 why I remeber you...

Yes, maybe he should have posted all items at once 1st. But that was all the mistake he made. AND he appoligised for it. So I would say - make less fuzz about it and think as well how you could have prevented it. Maybe if you roll on stuff you rly find that ###### (funnily it didn't even take you long to roll on the legs) then ask 1st what the 2nd teal is, cause there are always 2.

Always easy to blame only others even though the person complaining could have accted differently as well.

And pretty sad to twist the facts - like the leader wanted to raise his chances of winning... when he did not even roll =)
Oh did you realize that there were only might and agi classes in the raid and just the 2 healer for will? Maybe that was because he did not need anything and made the raid so I have a higher chance of winning the band of chodex archivist - he would be terribly stupid to search for many champs if he wants a champ item :P

+ 1 item per person is just fair and when I lead raids and forget to tell in 1st place, I never had anyone complaining when I said - m8 you already won something, do you mind passing?

I think it was a good post by the OP. He didn't mention the leader by name, didn't troll anyone, or call out the kin. He was just giving out what could be very useful advice. Or at least a useful warning (as I can attest having been the victim of ninja looting several times).

Elurai, keep it to yourself. Your friend messed up in a way that could be construed as cheating. I agree that one teal/high end item per raid is fair, but it is on the leader to state the rules and make sure everyone knows what is available. Cronin at least took the moral highroad with his post, your could extend the same courtesy and keep your flame to yourself.

PS the OP also never said that the leader took it for himself

oh yes, he said he rolled on it => wanted to have it for himself, which he did not.
The poster said, he warned ppl he knows to join the leaders raids cause he tried to cheat which is simply not true. => This is trashing a persons name without real reason.
There was no hiding, false asigning and or anything - and it is common sense to give 1 item to 1 person. And in no way you can consider this cheating. So I just don't get why an apology in the raid isn't enough and why ppl always complain without thinking how they could have acted differently themself to prevent the problem.
He admited he made a mistake and did not tell it before. But the poster here made a mistake as well. He did not ask what the 2nd item is, he did not ask if he can roll on 2 items, cause the item he just rolled on right away, he does not want to use....
I still wonder why he rolled then?
So yeah maybe he did not name the person here but he does ingame and it isn't right. So if you consider what I do falming (not calling him anything not niced nor telling anyone not to invite or join his raids) - and I guess it would make you angry as well if you were there, know the person and see a post with the facts twisted around like they are.
He would have taken the high road if he would not trash the leaders name in game nor make it sound like he wanted to gain anything by posting the items in that order or maybe mention that he actually admited the mistake he made - but I guess it would not have benn fair to the other raidmembers eigther if he woudl have given 2 items to 1 person. So yes, a mistake was made - wow - this person is a culprit and probably all his kinmembers as well =)

I don't have anything against the poster - so no idea why I should flame him/her - but I woudl be happy if he/she would actually rethink the raidleaders action and take the 1 mistake he made as what it was.

Originally Posted by Elurai

oh yes, he said he rolled on it => wanted to have it for himself, which he did not.
The poster said, he warned ppl he knows to join the leaders raids cause he tried to cheat which is simply not true. => This is trashing a persons name without real reason.
There was no hiding, false asigning and or anything - and it is common sense to give 1 item to 1 person. And in no way you can consider this cheating. So I just don't get why an apology in the raid isn't enough and why ppl always complain without thinking how they could have acted differently themself to prevent the problem.
He admited he made a mistake and did not tell it before. But the poster here made a mistake as well. He did not ask what the 2nd item is, he did not ask if he can roll on 2 items, cause the item he just rolled on right away, he does not want to use....
I still wonder why he rolled then?
So yeah maybe he did not name the person here but he does ingame and it isn't right.

Aah, if this is trashing a person's name, then please show me the name? The only trashing going on here is you trashing the OP's name, because at least his name is on this post. The leader is still annonymous, unless you are prepared to name him?

And although the leader in this case was not cheating, this method CAN be used to cheat so the warning is fair.

Originally Posted by Cronin_Stickyfingers

The culprit is on my ignore list now, Ive also warned all my friends and kinnies not to join raids skirmishes where he is the leader

last post from me to your trashing question. The name: Take my name, cause it could have happend to me as well, I make mistakes and still try to be fair, and no, I would not give him 2 items eigther.

If it was the leader's mistake, the easy thing to do would be to say sorry, and then let him roll on the 2nd item--since it sounds like nobody else really wanted to win the ###### leggings anyway.

I've been in that situation before and the leader has done exactly that. The other people in the raid might not be happy if that person wins again, but the good ones will at least recognize that it was the fair thing to do, and accept your apology.

I had a similar experience and that's why I never PUG Skirmish Raids no more. I rolled (I am a Champ) on a +122vit piece of jewellery and won it (only one other person rolled). The next item was a +122might piece of jewellery, I won it aswell but I couldn't have it and convienently, his kin member "won" it. If I had known about the +122might piece before AND about this "rule", I wouldn't have gone for the +vit piece but rather for the +might piece, as a Champ. His lame excuse was: "Don't roll on Tank items". I have news for him, Champs are Tanks aswell. But he didn't care and he obviously doesn't know much about other classes.

Oh, I am sorry for complaining here, I only wanted to say I had a similar experience and I also didn't like it. Either link everything first or simply let everyone who rolls the highest actually get the item they won.

http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Itemwarf-Silver_Flask

Is it this? BoA? And he had it for a month?

Best in Pugs:

1 roll only, master looter on, and the winner open the chest and link everything, and choose what he wants.
Then choose the 2nd roll, 3rd roll...

I've only seen one worn symbol drop in a skirmish raid since U5, I hope I don't see too many more after tomorrow's patch, if that makes any sense

I'm sorry you felt like you got into an unfair situation. A few thoughts come to mind:

first) raid leaders should state loot rules at the beginning of a raid (a REMINDER prior to opening the chest is helpful)
second) if you don't understand the loot rules ASK first.
third) if you don't agree with rule number one -- find another group!

I wasn't with the group, don't know the people, and am not trying to stir a bitter pot. I don't like using master loot for raid skirms as people can't see everything at once, and when a leader went link dead (especially with the 5 minute lockout timer) I've seen more loot lost due to THAT than classes rolling on inapprorpriate items; if master loot is used, ALL items need to be linked to the group.

Lastly: a reminder: the game should be about fun. Loots are great and all, but not the end all and be all. Making friends is more important than losing them over a loot disagreement.

Well, that was an odd raid. Being the person who got the item in the end, I feel sorry for you - those leggings were indeed trash and rolling for those without stating the 1 piece per person rule was a little sad.

Mind, I don't know the raid leader apart from grouping 1-2 times with him, so don't suspect he did it on purpose just to anger anyone or some vague personal profit.

Originally Posted by Cronin_Stickyfingers

I got swindled in a skirmish raid this weekend, and Ive decided to post this topic to warn you guys not to fall for the same trap as I did. I call it a noob trap myself, even though Im not exactly new to skirmish raids, I just mostly do them with a kin group where everyone plays fair. But yesterday I found out not all pug leaders are acting in good faith.

Now that's interesting, let's keep on going.

Originally Posted by Cronin_Stickyfingers

Here the trick he used. It was a attack at dawn raid, and I was on captain. When the boss was dead and it became time to loot the chest, he linked some heavy armour legs in chat. Can't remember the name but it was some high vitality piece. No one was rolling for them and I figured well they are pretty #### but might as well roll for them, who knows they might come in handy for some tanking build or something.

It's common courtesy and everyone knows by now that in skirmish raids and in raids generally you get one item per person. Some leaders (like myself) allow everyone roll for relics and xp since those are not the most difficult ones to get, but still, I've been in any skirms so far and never had issues like that. Perhaps you should think better next time when rolling or simply ask - if no one needs, can I have it? I usually end up rolling 12 or just randomly giving the item to someone in the raid when there are no rolls for it.

Originally Posted by Cronin_Stickyfingers

But after that the leader linked the highly desireable dwarf silver flask, which all the melee classes rolled for, including the leader, who was (obviously) a champ. I had the highest roll, but he just said, sorry only one piece per person.
See what he did there? Had I known there was a dwarf silver flask in the chest, I would have never wasted my roll on some ###### leggings obviously. But I didn't know, because the leader sneakily linked the ###### legs first. Heck, I didn't even know you could have only one piece per person, he never told us beforehand.

This is where your lie starts. By the look of it that leader had that pocket item so why saying he rolled on it? I understand you are pissed because you wanted that shinny little thing but from being pissed to trashing someone's name in public like that is not nice either. I hardly believe he rolled on it because he needed a spare...

Originally Posted by Cronin_Stickyfingers

Afterwards I figured I could name and shame the culprit in global but Ive often seen that an exercise in futility, because you really can't prove anything so it usually ends in a trollfest with the culprits kinnies defending him even though they weren't there etc, and Ive even seen friends of mine getting banned for trying to warn the community about similar ninjalooters.

And here is where your post becomes extremely offensive and totally unnecessary. Calling him a culprit, ninjalooter? for what? He didn't even rolled on that item. I would understand someone pointing fingers if the leader did something bad indeed, stealing stuff from the raid people and so on but by the look of it the only unhappy person in that raid is you.

Originally Posted by Cronin_Stickyfingers

So I decided just to make this topic here, without naming the ninjalooter. A waring to all honest players here: If you ever pug a raid skirmish with a leader you don't know, always try to open the chest before the raid leader does, and call him out if he tries to hide something valueable! protect yourself and the rest of your group from wasting rolls!
As for me: Ive learned my lesson. The culprit is on my ignore list now, Ive also warned all my friends and kinnies not to join raids skirmishes where he is the leader and I myself will prolly not join any skirmishes anymore with I leader I don't know for sure I can trust. Luckily I know quite a few trustworthy raid leaders, so Im not at all restricted to kin raids only.

thank you for your time.

I'm leading skirmish raids every evening almost, gearing up my captain, farming marks, relaxing in front of my pc, you know? I do call for someone random in the raid to open the chest for me and link the items in raid chat so everyone can see what's going on. Besides, even when I am not leading and I go to a skirmish I know what I'm after and I wouldn't roll for something that's not really useful for any of my builds.

Next time when you come to these forums, trashing someone's name (without giving the name actually) make sure you let everyone know what actually happened. Distorting the truth is called a lie as well and from my point of view you are the one in a bad light here. You could have just started a debate about the raid looting policies rather than starting this unnecessary rage post.

P.S. You know that flask is not that much of a captain item, right? If I would have been a champ in that raid and if you would have won that item, I'd be very pissed probably, came to this forum and make a rage post just like you did, because I couldn't get over the frustration of losing something for someone that doesn't really needs that item as much as I do.

Edit: Everyone can make mistakes when sharing loot, so let's not make a fuzz out of it.. Before this bug with handing the items there weren't any ninjalooters with some few exceptions. Now everyone behaves like the whole server turns into some bad mafia guys....

Originally Posted by Noian

P.S. You know that flask is not that much of a captain item, right? If I would have been a champ in that raid and if you would have won that item, I'd be very pissed probably...

What makes a captain item may I ask? Granted, it's not a traditional one, but all the stats on it very much support what a captain does.

Mind you, it was a tank that got it in the end for an OP build.

Interesting glff last night with screenshots of a player allegedly ninjaing two items, presumably not having read the patch notes. Outcry from his fellow raiders.

Bit sickening really.

Originally Posted by Noian

This is where your lie starts. By the look of it that leader had that pocket item so why saying he rolled on it? I understand you are pissed because you wanted that shinny little thing but from being pissed to trashing someone's name in public like that is not nice either. I hardly believe he rolled on it because he needed a spare...


And here is where your post becomes extremely offensive and totally unnecessary. Calling him a culprit, ninjalooter? for what? He didn't even rolled on that item. I would understand someone pointing fingers if the leader did something bad indeed, stealing stuff from the raid people and so on but by the look of it the only unhappy person in that raid is you.

The OP did not actually name the person responsible, no-one was trashed. Just because the leader already had the piece does not mean that he/she is innocent of the potential scam.

It would be easy to agree before the raid to not roll on the first piece of loot - the raid leader using this piece to draw out any unsuspecting noobs. This would increase the odds for the preferred players. Or maybe there was a conversation in chat (not lotro) indicating to certain players when to roll.

OK, so this is getting a bit far fetched...but it is possible. Enticing a noob with a ###### teal piece and then saying "Ooops, my bad." is not acceptable in any situation though and I can understand the OPs sentiments completely.

I'm a noob, by the way. I don't use the term offensively. I've been here since beta and am still a noob and proud!

Originally Posted by Noian

It's common courtesy and everyone knows by now that in skirmish raids and in raids generally you get one item per person.

Well...as a noob that started playing a week ago and has never done a skirmish yet the OP is useful information for future reference.

I may be new to LOTRO, but I've been around MMOs for 12 years and always look for info like this, as rules differ for every MMO.

As the OP didn't name anyone it's not a personal attack, but more generic information for people like me on what to expect should the time arrive when I do participate.

LOTRO's been around long enough now to generate huge and often conflicting and confusing references to anything searched for - especially given the move(?) from Codemasters to Turbine and then the F2P change. Information is often outdated, so new people like me are left to try to find the most up to date information we can as best we can, and these forums are probably still the best place to look for latest posts.

All I'm concerned about is knowing what to expect and what's expected of me should I decide to participate in the future and hence posts such as the OPs are a useful bit of information.

I wasn't in the raid, don't know people involved, but can say something general though. I see main problem being here what is linked first. What is most desirable item for you is not for someone else and other way around. No raid leader is going to first link the most desirable item specifically for you or anyone else as we all want and need different things. We can only speak of being lucky enough to see our most desirable item linked first, or we can speak did raid leader can and would guess what would be the most desirable item for majority in raid.

Isn't this a necropost ?

Anyway, they fixed the bug where all raid cannot see what was in the chest

shame on you for rolling on something you don't need