I am no surprised by this move. Just disgusted. That is my feedback to you Turbine.
This is from when Store was about to launch
I expressed the general player concern over whether the store will give the moneybags-player too much of a leg up over others. I was told that they're being careful not to offer any unbalancing buffs or items -- for example, Turbine decided from the start that the store would not sell gear with any stats attached.
Re: PvE gear in the LOTRO Store WITH STATS? - Coming soon!
Originally Posted by Ronigard
I am disappointed with this. I think this is a huge mistake and will turn many players off the game.
If this goes through and becomes 'mandatory gear', as in required to be invited to groups, it will damage the game as much as the stupid monocles did EVE.
Right, because mediocre mid level 20s gear is in danger of becoming mandatory.
Many players have given us feedback that there is a sparcity of gear on the AH at these levels and they wanted an alternative.
Ok ok.. now serious. This answer make my day. Ty !
but thats remembers me, how many feedbacks was send about pvmp.. but wait.. erm... still wait..yess .. nothing or soon...
Last edited by Theandil; Jan 13 2012 at 07:27 PM.
Reason: typo
Store:
Golden Shoes of the Benefactor Tier III: +111 Armour, +8 Will, +8 Fate and +8 Vitality
Better armor, Both stats, and runspeed to boot? Certainly seems better to me.
Also, Turbine I acknowledge that you moved this to store feedback, but I certainly feel this is a major shift and that some form of discussion should be allowed to take place in General.
Please show me where it's stated that this gear is useable at level 20? I see Tiers listed, not levels. The stats on it are roughly equivalent to level 25 crafted.
1. Between bank and crafting alts, all my slots are filled with characters that already completed the lowest level deeds. I suppose I could go to a new server to grind points, but that means I can't save any of the crafting mats I pick up.
Then what characters are you rolling that you want to skip the intro?
I'm just offering turbine a chance to say why now? How can you call them not top-tier items and call them low level items at the same time?
How can you expect us to believe you're going to stop here like Docholiday suggests?
We're listening, and people are already voting with their wallets by unsubscribing. This isn't the time for silence, and Friday evening wasnt the time to announce this.
A couple of weeks ago I was having a conversation with 5 other people I group with on Tuesday nights. The focus was the last paid expansion with its many faults and the sheer amount of items that are sold 'exclusively' in the store....a store we were told in the beginning would have nothing not available in-game.
One person (who has 3 accounts) had the attitude that she was going to stick it out until we finally reach Mordor but that she was very unhappy with some of the new changes. She said that she would just avoid the things that annoyed her and try and focus on having fun. The rest of us were a little less lenient. 2 have been here since very early Beta (when you actually had to aim at targets and before there was any Race but Human) and another has been here since Beta (to include working on Isengard / Palantir for each successive expansion).
We just had another discussion about this change and how more and more this game is coming to exist virtually for the sole purpose of channeling players to the Turbine Store. My friend with the 'stick it out' attitude has pretty much decided to throw in the towel, abandon her houses, liquidate her belongings and spend a week or so handing things off to random people (most likely RP folks) before wiping the game from her system and walking away because she is a Crafter and for her, this is a slap in the face. She spends (spent I guess is now more accurate) hours weekly harvesting and Crafting both for guildies and for AH purposes....hell, she's had run by gifting sessions.
I do not know what Server has a shortage of gear but I for one have crafting alts of every stripe and I dump items on the AH constantly and at or below the 'going prices' of other similar items. I get roughly 1/4 returned after time runs out. I don't post non crit items, I vend those. I have seen a lot of things in this game that have made me shake my head but until now I'd not seen anything to really make me lose all faith in the Vision of the Team....tarnished yes, bent, dinged but never lost.....
That is so sad! I wish someone at Turbine would read this, & try to understand the problem. Even if we've bought stuff - and I have - this makes me doubt the direction they're taking the game. I don't expect to be funneled into the store as a priority over being eager to explore content.
Please show me where it's stated that this gear is useable at level 20? I see Tiers listed, not levels. The stats on it are roughly equivalent to level 25 crafted.
Can you please stop talking about lvl 20 gear? That is not the point.
Please show me where it's stated that this gear is useable at level 20? I see Tiers listed, not levels. The stats on it are roughly equivalent to level 25 crafted.
Please show me where it's stated that this gear isn't useable at level 20? The stats on it are better than level 25 crafted.
Joe "Jwbarry" Barry: "... because there was a thread in the book to hang ourselves from..." "We will not sell end-game gear. "
Orion: "Something needs to go here"
Please show me where it's stated that this gear is useable at level 20? I see Tiers listed, not levels. The stats on it are roughly equivalent to level 25 crafted.
The sale announcements and even Sapience don't suggest it has any kind of minimum level. Right now I expect that if I can't buy it at level 1, I can buy it the second I acquire the passive trait novice.
If I get a petition together to get the Sword of a Thousand Truths put into the game, it'll happen, right? I can get 100,000 signatures, I really can. No, I don't need to provide proof, trust me, I can get them. It's what the players want. These are the droids you are looking for.
In the course of four and a half hours, this thread has almost reached 10 pages Turbine. I shudder to think how many more will post here on this topic as west coasters and other around the world hear about this in the next several hours.
Nobody is happy at all. You have broken promises, you have lied. You have become more than obvious what your all about.
Do you feel it? Do you really?
Do you hear it? Do you?
That's your player base rapidly slipping away faster than i could even predict, and this is far from my first rodeo..
No sympathy for you, you deserve everything your about to receive.
All my devotion betrayed, I am no longer afraid
I was too blinded too see, How much you've stolen from me
Hey! Remember when a lot of people pointed out that Turbine never bothered to go back and adjust any stats on class-specific armour for lower levels after they changed the whole stats system (and what people would actually want on that armour)?
Well, of course, why would they bother to do so. . . actually go out of their way to make in-game armour worthwhile when they were planning on rolling out store-purchased armour? Just wait a few months, I no longer doubt the upper-level armour is on the way.
Which perhaps explains the dearth of T7 armor recipes.
Yes, that's exactly the problem. Turbine's word no longer carries any weight with the majority of the players. I've been a big supporter of the idea of this hybrid model, but even I'm now willing to admit Turbine is incapable of carrying through with any of their promises.
The problem is this. . .
If they can figure out any way to make more money, they are under immense pressure to do it.
A suit/bean-counter/manager will say: "Why don't we sell armour in the store?" and a developer/programmer/designer will say: "Well, that sorta goes against the "spirit of the game." And the "suit" will say: "Are you kidding me? Will people quit over it? Enough to hurt our bottom line?" When the answer is "no". . . when the answer is "it'll bring in more revenue than we lose from those quitting". . . then it's just plain going to happen. Eventually. It'll happen now, if they think the community has been "prepared" for it sufficiently via smaller, more incremental moves towards such things. Later, if the community isn't quite "ready". . . but it's going to happen. Even "resistance from within" will falter at Turbine when a manager has certain numbers to meet and the only argument against it is that it "goes against the principles/spirit of the game as a game."
And, of course, with that certainty comes all sorts of other certainties. . . we will never see the number of kills necessary for slayer deeds decrease as they once did out of the blue. That wouldn't be good for slayer deed accelerator sales. We will never see the barter wallet accept the items it seemed to built to contain. That would conflict with vault/storage sales. Getting the point?
Whereas some players, long before the F2P model existed, took on a bizarrely adversarial attitude towards a game studio. . . the existence of the F2P actually is an adversarial model. It literally puts the interests of the players at odd with the people designing and implementing the content of the game.
And, what's worse. . . there's no "market" keeping order here. Turbine not only decides how good their product will be (which they can produce out of nothing, instantly, on a whim), but they decide how good the competitor's item will be (the stuff that's available in-game). . . and then can even adjust how much you will need their product. If items in the store were coats, Turbine would not only be selling you the coats, but actually creating inferior coats to stock competitors' shelves while also controlling how cold it will get outside. They sell you goods for which they control the supply, need, and competition. When you're in that situation, get ready to be abused. And you're a sucker if you stick around long (that is, if you think a "game" should have a certain amount of integrity as a game).
I think it goes without saying that most of us would not start playing this game knowing what we know now. Knowing the truths above (and they are just basic economic principles. . . few would dispute them), I certainly wouldn't sign up to be manipulated under such a business model under the auspices of "playing a game." Personally, for me, if this weren't Middle-earth, I'd have been long gone several times over by now.
The only thing we can do in our current situation is make it clear that the community is not ready to accept things as they are offered. To get the word out. To stop compromising on basic principles. In essence, we need the answer to "will we make more money than we lose if we do this" to be "no" whenever they contemplate things like this.
But, since that'll never happen. Since they'll always find a way to "drip, drip, drip" these things into the game and people will always make excuses for it and rationalize it, we are, of course, eventually doomed.
It occurs to me that this is my 2000th post and I've been at this for five years. I've praised Turbine quite often in the past. I've defended them from criticism when that criticizm was unfair, or demonstrated a lack of perspective. And I've criticized them myself when I felt it warranted (radiance gating, relic system, store decisions, etc.). Now seems like a good time to just take an indefinite break (as a 2xLifer, there's really no cancellation option for me). It's patently obvious where we're all heading and at some point it just makes sense to stop investing precious time and energy into something that you know is not going to end well.
You can add two more VIP accounts to the "cancelled pile"
I was on the fence to wether this game would be worth keeping the subscriptions or not, for me and my wife.
But this sealed the deal.
You can add two more VIP accounts to the "cancelled pile"
I was on the fence to wether this game would be worth keeping the subscriptions or not, for me and my wife.
But this sealed the deal.
I'd ask anyone who unsubscribes as a result of this or any other Turbine decision, to remember to be sure to look for the exit survey and express your reasons there. This helps them see the real $ they're losing as a result.
I guess turbine just answered the question as to the direction they are taking this game. The feeback from the lootbox debacle, which was almost universally condemned, appears to have been completedly ignored and turbine follows up with stat gear for sale in the store. This game is becoming an empty shell I see little point in providing any further feedback.
Please show me where it's stated that this gear is useable at level 20? I see Tiers listed, not levels. The stats on it are roughly equivalent to level 25 crafted.
Originally Posted by Sapience
Halted experience is an option. If you want to stop your character in their lower 20s (about the max level of the gear in question) then that's your choice. Like I mentioned above, it's all about options. Now you'll have more.
The max level of the gear is in the lower 20s.
Originally Posted by Crell_1
Then what characters are you rolling that you want to skip the intro?
Not everything is about memememe, I'm disturbed by the trend of crossing every line they take the time to draw.
Same here. I just cancelled my subscription and my wife's as well. Filled out the survey to let them know I don't support their goals to milk as much money as possible from the community (regardless of past promises). Time to move on I think.
I'm a lifetimer so I can't cancel though I'm not ready to even with this.. but I'll add my name to the list of those who think this is a horrible idea. The slope keeps getting slipperier.
OMG, a vague reference to "lower 20s", when I said its roughly level 25 gear, yeah, huge difference (if any) there. Yeesh.
Even at level 25, the gear is better than anything available via in-game means, crit-crafted or otherwise.
But Sapience didn't say the gear starts in the lower 20s, he said the MAX level is in the lower 20s, which means the level to equip will be even lower.
I'd ask anyone who unsubscribes as a result of this or any other Turbine decision, to remember to be sure to look for the exit survey and express your reasons there. This helps them see the real $ they're losing as a result.
Absolutely !
I did so, and even restrained my urge to just write random swearwords. On the off chance that someone would acctually read it and not immediatly disregard it as drivel.
More and more broken promises are coming up and turbine is getting more distant with the players all for the sake of 'Lord of the Store Online'.
It really is disgusting that statted armor is being put in as now it can happen with pretty much anything for a ridiculous price to boot.
Isengard and the current release of the instance finder were pushing it for me and don't even get me started on the lootboxes, but now it's time to throw in the towel. It's now more of a walking billboard than having fun.
It's a running joke like where there's an app for everything on the Iphone.
Can't be arsed grinding for deeds? There's a store item for that.
You would like to keep your legendary item relics? There's a store item for that?
You want armor because you can't be bothered to get it via game means? Oh look, there's a store item for that!
I would also advise if possible for member's credit card details to be removed if leaving the game seeing as customer support is needed to do so.
Last edited by WhitewolfUK; Jan 13 2012 at 08:07 PM.
1. The reason given for this addition to the store (not enough crafted gear in the AH) is ridiculous. On Landroval new players enthousiastically start to put their newly crafted low level gear in the AH, only to notice that it doesn't sell. So they stop putting stuff in the AH. Or they offer these items in /trade, often for free, and there are no takers.
2. It is neither necessary to buy gear, because quests provide and a new player outlevels gear too fast already.
2. Yesterday I made a list of the most important stats per class, and what stands out are MIGHT, WILL and VITALITY. And I wondered, where o where will I ever find a good mix of those. Well guess what! Turbine intercepted my mental deliberations and in all their goodness decided to put gear with exactly those two stats in the store! And of course the price in tp is no problem, because those pieces are only 95/450 tp each !
3. I was considering to at least resub one of my cancelled VIP's, but now I won't.
4. Sapience, already when RoI was introduced for $$ I lost trust in what was communicated to the players on the forums, but your posts in this thread beat it all.
5. I am working on a Landroval AH list, will post shortly.
There is a striking lack of players providing feedback in this thread about the scarcity of low-level gear on their servers' auction houses and their desire for an additional purchasing option.
I have nothing good to say about this potential development, and I hope Turbine will reconsider its implementation.
I have tried to make gold from selling armor at the AH, but
1) Many players will have already gained better armor via quests or raids, so the market is small.
2) You can only post for a max of 2 days so often the stuff comes back.
3) Posting a 5 set armor pack takes up 5 AH slots.
4) I can earn more by posting my lvl 75 LI drops, or the ore needed to make such armor.
As the game play is spread across more and more level and players are given more and more ways to progress faster across those levels the current AH breaks down. Maybe we need a system where players can place order requests and the amount they wish to pay, so the first person to deliver the item gets the sale.
It's lower level gear. Many players have given us feedback that there is a sparcity of gear on the AH at these levels and they wanted an alternative. We're trying to accomodate that.
So, I applaud your decision to kick start the gear market on your server. Options are what it's all about.
How about looking a the concerns players have with crafting? there have been several threads linked here, or you could go over to the suggestion or crafting forums. I haven't seen anyone specially ask for an alternative to crafting. And of course, there have been several request to not sell items with stats in the store.
From the smallest blade of grass to the largest mountain, where life goes, so too should you.
I've bought my fair share of items from the store, mostly cosmetic items. But with the store moving in this direction maybe I'll just hang on to my money because I'm not sure I want to support this p2w store anymore.
Meh, not really concerned. While it has the potential to take the game in a bad direction, there is NO way I would pay TP for kind of ###### gear that I'd outlevel in an hour.
I don't disagree with that, Stavro, but I think this is the worst example so far. Or rather, the best example that things are heading in the wrong direction.
Nobody really gives a #### about low level gear. You blow through those levels so fast that it's pointless. If morons want to spend real money on it, go for it. The problem is that this is directly going against something Turbine said would not happen, and can easily snowball into something that will drastically affect further parts of the game.
Stat tomes, legacies, store morale pots, etc...that's all grey area stuff, at least to me. I don't give a #### if the character you run in a raid does or doesn't have stat tomes, store morale pots, or whatever. They have minimal impact in the best of situations, and absolutely no impact in most situations.
Armor, though, can be different if this ever reaches the late stages of the game. And that's the problem...Turbine has been having a number of self-control issues lately, and coupled with their previous track record on these types of things, it's a very bad sign.
I would strongly encourage everyone to give Turbine one chance here, let them see what the reaction has been, and let them gracefully back away, no harm done. I think the work they have done on one of the better MMOs in recent memory deserves that.
Turbine has always lied about the store and it not being p2w so this should not come as any surprise. Remember that they said it would only be fluff at the beginning, nothing gamealtering? Well, they lied. And they saw ppl paying for stuff and continue playing regardless so they upped the stuff more and more.
Within a year you will be able to buy top-tier weapons and classitems that trumphs the ones available ingame, mark my words.
OMG, a vague reference to "lower 20s", when I said its roughly level 25 gear, yeah, huge difference (if any) there. Yeesh.
Originally Posted by Hrodberht
I think you need to stop acting like Sapience said "It's useable at 20!"
Just wanted to bring this post over from the other thread, in case that one gets deleted.
Let's just agree to disagree until it actually hits the store. If the gear is only equippable at level 21 or above, I will publicly apologize, so long as you agree to do the same if it's equippable at level 20 or below. Deal?
Until I can see something that sets a level to the tiers I am going to reserve comments about how unbalancing it is.
I can however say, after starting on new servers, gearing strictly from quest items and drops can suck for a new player and auction house pricing for lowbie gear (sub 15) is very over priced compared to what a player in that level range can possibly afford.
In short, player greed is partially responsible for this. I base that on 300-500+ silver for level 7 items in the ah most of the time.
Haven't seen this mentioned yet though I thought I would bring it up. You know what else there is a distinct lack of at lower levels? Gold. I mean, at lower levels there is just never enough gold to get what I want. I remember at level 15 I was so excited that I was going to be able to buy a house. Imagine my disappointment when I got to the housing guy and saw that a deluxe house cost over 7 gold! I didn't have that kinda coin on me but I really really really wanted a house. If only I had more options to get that gold at that low of a level. I could buy all those neat things I wanted but just couldn't afford. More options is always a good thing I think so I think it's only natural that gold be added to the store as well.
(Not so much of a stretch of the imagination anymore, is it?)
Former CM LOTRO EU customer, but you can add me to the cancelled list, have paid and played for this game every month since pre-launch early access. Bought every expansion. No longer, armour in the store is and was one of the last promises Turbine made that remained unbroken with regards to the store. They have lost my custom.
I filled out the exit survey but was met with dismay when asked what would bring me back and one of the option was to make it microtransaction only and no subscription. that they think something like that is what the majority of the people leaving want goes against everything i have ever read or heard on both the forums and in game.
N.B, There was no option at all to suggest a decrease in store activity would bring me back to the game and so i had to select that nothing would bring me back. It seems that even the exit questionnaire is biased in favour of the store.
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Re: What is new in the store, armors?????
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From the smallest blade of grass to the largest mountain, where life goes, so too should you.
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