Pre warner bros. the game was made for players. The devs were consistently and highly praised for their outstanding creation. It was evident that there was a great love for the game and the lore. After warner bros., Turbine's focus is receiving praise from warner bros. in the form of "Look what I created for the store that has generated all this money for you". Why these brilliant creators cannot find some middle ground to please both is quite beyond me as I (and many other players) seem to be able to come up with excellent ideas that would generate income AND please the player base. One idea I had floating around in my mind was offer a standard quest reward for quests, but then offer an upgraded version for TP, at least that way we still feel like we played for enjoyment and earned something rather than simply pay to win. Upgrade housing, neighborhoods, and kinships (MANY players have posted wonderful suggestions over the years) and put THOSE in the store. Things people have FOR REAL asked for repeatedly, instead of concocting up false things to put in the store that alienate your customers. DUH! But the thing that has been the number one reason I'm no longer playing/paying is the fact that every time some new thing is introduced, other parts of the game are nerfed, THAT is the most unacceptable thing in my opinion
Last edited by knowfere; Jan 20 2012 at 09:14 PM.
~Nevanna~Lynxa~Amasal~
"I am rather tired, and no longer young enough to pillage the night to make up for the deficit of hours in the day..." JRR Tolkien, Letter # 174
I get that I can just ignore the store, that there's nothing there that I truly need to better my character, and that armour at low levels "doesn't really matter" because we level up so fast, but they're still setting a precedence with this. Yeah, I'll probably get over it, eventually, since if I want to play a game, this is it for me. I'm not a big MMO player in general. This was my first one and probably my last because I'm here for the lore, not for the gaming aspect. But as I said in another post, my fun is disappearing with additions like this. My motivation to log in decreases with every update as all of my friends disappear to play other games. This game has been a big part of my social network for 6 years and it's sad to see it whittled away largely in part to the addition of microtransactions.
With that said, I still maintain that the armour would be much more tolerable (for me, anyway), if it were inferior to what can be crafted and/or earned in-game.
While I do not like the in-store armours as a general idea, someone I was fellowing with tonight bought them. He found he was able to sell them for ~500 silver a piece to vendors, not an insubstantial sum for level 20-25 characters. So, a point of specific feedback:
Please make the in-store armours (if you insist on keeping them) non-sellable (or with a very low value). Otherwise, Turbine might as well just start selling gold in the store.
While I do not like the in-store armours as a general idea, someone I was fellowing with tonight bought them. He found he was able to sell them for ~500 silver a piece to vendors, not an insubstantial sum for level 20-25 characters. So, a point of specific feedback:
Please make the in-store armours (if you insist on keeping them) non-sellable (or with a very low value). Otherwise, Turbine might as well just start selling gold in the store.
Do you know which piece of armor it was? I'm trying to collect data on this specific issue and see how much gold you can buy with TP. I don't think these should be vendoarble at all if for no other reason then hackers. If your account is hacked you will lose TP as well as your gold and items.
Joe "Jwbarry" Barry: "... because there was a thread in the book to hang ourselves from..." "We will not sell end-game gear. "
Orion: "Something needs to go here"
Do you know which piece of armor it was? I'm trying to collect data on this specific issue and see how much gold you can buy with TP. I don't think these should be vendoarble at all if for no other reason then hackers. If your account is hacked you will lose TP as well as your gold and items.
Not only that but you have to have your credit card information stored......
So if you are hacked (and my mother has been, even though she had NO virus..) they would have access to that too.
You can buy... I think at least $200 worth of points a day.....
Oh this is not going to go well....
“For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
Do you know which piece of armor it was? I'm trying to collect data on this specific issue and see how much gold you can buy with TP. I don't think these should be vendoarble at all if for no other reason then hackers. If your account is hacked you will lose TP as well as your gold and items.
I believe it was the level 20+ set. All three items together sold for a total of 1g 300s to 1g 500s. So I'm guessing 400-500s a piece. At least that was what he reported.
If you don't want raid armor in the store, you need to voice that opinion NOW, not after it has been permanently introduced to the store.
As much as I agree with you on this it won't matter, there was even more outrage at stat tomes in F2P beta and they went merrily live. What will matter is when people decide it's too much and stop paying.
As much as I agree with you on this it won't matter
Likely not, but I don't think the likelihood of our voices being heard, or lack thereof, is a good enough reason to tell people 'I don't care so you should stop complaining'.
There is no requirement to keep your info stored. Just submit an account support ticket then follow the instructions in the automated follow-up email.
Considering that my family will be taking "a break", (we have lifetime accounts so canceling seems kind of pointless)
I would feel quite a bit safer to know my information is removed.
Thank you!
“For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
Pre warner bros. the game was made for players. The devs were consistently and highly praised for their outstanding creation. It was evident that there was a great love for the game and the lore. After warner bros., Turbine's focus is receiving praise from warner bros. in the form of "Look what I created for the store that has generated all this money for you". Why these brilliant creators cannot find some middle ground to please both is quite beyond me as I (and many other players) seem to be able to come up with excellent ideas that would generate income AND please the player base. One idea I had floating around in my mind was offer a standard quest reward for quests, but then offer an upgraded version for TP, at least that way we still feel like we played for enjoyment and earned something rather than simply pay to win. Upgrade housing, neighborhoods, and kinships (MANY players have posted wonderful suggestions over the years) and put THOSE in the store. Things people have FOR REAL asked for repeatedly, instead of concocting up false things to put in the store that alienate your customers. DUH! But the thing that has been the number one reason I'm no longer playing/paying is the fact that every time some new thing is introduced, other parts of the game are nerfed, THAT is the most unacceptable thing in my opinion
There is no requirement to keep your info stored. Just submit an account support ticket then follow the instructions in the automated follow-up email.
Thank you for the information. I think my lovely wife and I will be getting our CC information stripped out of our LOTRO accounts in the morning. Since we won't be spending any more money with Turbine, there's no reason they should have access to our information any longer.
I'm sure many others have stated this but their posts have been lost to the pages of this thread.
Turbine made a big point of saying that only convenience not advantage would be placed in the Store and that they would never put statted armour in the Store.
As we all know, Turbine broke the former promise ages ago so now all but the tattered remains are left hanging to be shot at.
The latter, however, is the recent breaking of their word. They knew what they were doing when the put it in. Their excuse for this? That it's low level armour, that there isn't enough low level armour on the AH and that it's not as good as some armour you can get.
Firstly, it doesn't matter that it's low level, it's that it's clearly the first step in putting high level gear in and that they've broken their word.
Secondly, saying that there isn't enough on the AH for low levels is ridiculous since, if that's the case, just add a vendor that sells low level armour at the same strength as crafted. The Store was not needed but Turbine couldn't pass up a chance to squeeze yet more money out of this dying cow.
Finally, that it isn't the best set at those levels. Players have already checked this and it's just a completely fallacious statement. The Store bought armour is actually the best set for those low levels and saying otherwise is misrepresenting the truth.
The best bit about all of this? Turbine has found a way to use player demands to fuel their Store. All those things we've asked for over the years and now not been given are taking a back seat to things like this.
Brilliantly, what they've done is put a load of new players on to the idea of armour from the Store. They'll buy it and play through the levels, confused as to why they're being rewarded armour from quests when they don't need it thanks to the Store. Then, when they've out levelled it, they'll complain that there isn't higher level armour for them. Turbine will then gladly meet their need and add high level armour to the Store because they're 'meeting player demand'. They've effectively created their own monster and they're ecstatic about it.
So it seems Turbine has broken their word, yet again, to add armour to the Store for a fallacious demand which will then help them later when 'genuine' demands are made for high level gear.
+ 1 to the people who are completely against stat armor in the store at any level.
IMO this is far from the first occurance of advantage over convenience that has made it into the store however I can accept that to some people previous items were convenience. My definition of advantage versus convenience differs from theirs and turbines in so far as stat tomes, scrolls, pots, li enhancements go straight into the advantage category. These I would prefer not to be there but I could initially ignore.
However when it comes to Stats on armour it was catagorically stated that they would not be added to the store. With it's appearance there is no wiggle room, there is no misunderstanding, there is no grey area, it is turbine saying one thing to appease the paying customer then and 18 (?) months down the line doing exactly the opposite. That is the crux of the issue, if these remain we are then back into the grey area of convenience versus advantage for stat armour and any stat on any level armour can be argued to be convenience. If it isnt stopped now there will be no turning back more and more advantage items will creep in.
Personally I had pretty much left after the introduction of the IF, it was the straw that broke the camels back for me most of the other straws being store related. I still check these forums a lot in hopes that turbine will wake up and smell the roses, if the game had started as ftp I would not have a legitimate complaint (with respect to the store), however myself and many others have invested a lot of time and money in the game. I am not interested in paying for items that should be in game, I want to play a game where the rewards are in relation to the time and effort put in and where all players are equal in this regard. The game should provide the rewards in both character enhancements and enjoyment not by real money purchases.
My hope is that this is the pivotal point on the development and direction of the game and that turbine changes direction, stopping the introduction of store advantage. Items such as cosmetics, hobbies, storage, house related items etc are all fine in the store, but things that effect character developement (including li's) should never have made it in and should be phased out. If this started to happen I would be back in lotro in an instant.
The last thing I would comment on is the ability to vendor this armour which is a disgrace, giving hackers not only the ability to destroy your ingame chars and wealth but also the ability to steal from your back account.
I would urge anyone who has their cc information on file to raise a ticket and get it removed, perhaps if enough people do this reguardless of whether they are still playing or not that turbine may take notice and realise that this is a leap too far.
Middle Earth is a place Tolkienites want to be. There may be individually favorite spots, such as The Prancing Pony, or Weathertop; Rivendell, Lothlorien, the Bitter Stair or the watcher's pool; but it's a world so far removed from this one as is the star shining high and clear above the clouds of Mordor that people who read the story want to be there. And that's what this game provides. An opportunity to see the sights and places only imagined before; the devs have done such a superb job with the world model! Having read the stories at least once a year, often several times a year for almost 4 decades now, to find the world so wonderfully animated is a treasure.
Through 2 failed marriages, Tolkien's world was there for escape, support and comfort. Through fighting off the twin demons of drug and alcohol addiction, there were words and scenarios in the story for encouragement. It has helped through deaths of family members, seeing a child off to a RL war and later seeing him return wounded but proud. It's been there as old age creeps on and brings its many problems. Tolkien's world, his visions, his words and story provide so much more than a "video game".
That's why the outrage when this happens.
Lovely and touching post. I have many of the same feelings as you. Tolkien's works have brought so many unexpected friends into my life and changed it drastically (so big that I met my significant other and now live on another continent and learning a new language!) It too have always loved how Middle Earth was there, been thankful for what it's brought me and it's been a joy to be able to run around it through Turbine's game. I think that's why the direction Turbine is taking the game feels so bad.
+ 1 to the people who are completely against stat armor in the store at any level.
IMO this is far from the first occurance of advantage over convenience that has made it into the store however I can accept that to some people previous items were convenience. My definition of advantage versus convenience differs from theirs and turbines in so far as stat tomes, scrolls, pots, li enhancements go straight into the advantage category. These I would prefer not to be there but I could initially ignore.
However when it comes to Stats on armour it was catagorically stated that they would not be added to the store. With it's appearance there is no wiggle room, there is no misunderstanding, there is no grey area, it is turbine saying one thing to appease the paying customer then and 18 (?) months down the line doing exactly the opposite. That is the crux of the issue, if these remain we are then back into the grey area of convenience versus advantage for stat armour and any stat on any level armour can be argued to be convenience. If it isnt stopped now there will be no turning back more and more advantage items will creep in.
Personally I had pretty much left after the introduction of the IF, it was the straw that broke the camels back for me most of the other straws being store related. I still check these forums a lot in hopes that turbine will wake up and smell the roses, if the game had started as ftp I would not have a legitimate complaint (with respect to the store), however myself and many others have invested a lot of time and money in the game. I am not interested in paying for items that should be in game, I want to play a game where the rewards are in relation to the time and effort put in and where all players are equal in this regard. The game should provide the rewards in both character enhancements and enjoyment not by real money purchases.
My hope is that this is the pivotal point on the development and direction of the game and that turbine changes direction, stopping the introduction of store advantage. Items such as cosmetics, hobbies, storage, house related items etc are all fine in the store, but things that effect character developement (including li's) should never have made it in and should be phased out. If this started to happen I would be back in lotro in an instant.
The last thing I would comment on is the ability to vendor this armour which is a disgrace, giving hackers not only the ability to destroy your ingame chars and wealth but also the ability to steal from your back account.
I would urge anyone who has their cc information on file to raise a ticket and get it removed, perhaps if enough people do this reguardless of whether they are still playing or not that turbine may take notice and realise that this is a leap too far.
Removing your CC info is going to do nothing. That is by far going to get Turbines attention.
Removing your CC info is going to do nothing. That is by far going to get Turbines attention.
Removing your CC will do nothing? How about consumer security? That's the point of removing the CC. Not just to draw attention to Turbine, but to keep one's money safe.
To many people, free will is a license to rebel not against what is unjust or hard in life but against what is best for them and true.
Spiders in V1Pre-B13: 8-legged menace. B13: 8-legged bait. B14: 8-legged trap... no more! B15/MoM: 8-legged *splat!* Spiders in V2B7: We cope. B8: FotM? B9: 8-legged menace. Spiders in V3B3: Mourning for my hatchlings.
frog in pot!
(Though to be honest, we were in the pot with stat tomes and such...)
Though I hate that the store gear can be vendored for silver, at least it's not so much that gold farmers would be willing to spend the $200USD for less than 20g, I imagine. Of course, there's the entire problem with stolen accounts, as others have pointed out--which is why the gear should have only a 1 copper vendor value. (I don't know if any other store item has vendor value, actually. ?)
Then there's the fact that the gear is about 8-ish levels BETTER than any crafted/barter gear you can get in-game. Seriously? At least make it scale in a limited fashion similar to WoW's excellent heirloom system (where the gear level will always be par with instance/crafted because it scales up/down to equip level), and with the scaling mechanism, double the TP price. Or something. It's better if you just nerfed the stupid things to crafted minimum equip level, but the most ideal scenario is to remove them entirely from the store. Which, of course, will never happen. Same with the !@^#* lockbox keys... which I think are on the bestseller list or something. (Good job, players!) While you're at it, why don't you just delete the entire T1-T3 crafting tiers or something.
Well, wait--what was the "problem" again? This sounds like the idiot suits who tried to convince players that the Instance Finder is a solution to some kind of problem the players have never, ever complained about, instead creating a weird problem of "can't find an instance" out of thin air. Not enough good lowbie gear? There's nothing stopping new players from asking other players about lowbie gear and getting pointers on crafting or even getting free crafted gear in the process. Or joining a kinship that outfits their members. Never mind that quested gear is good enough anyway! Good golly. I can't even...
Since the discussion has moved forward to the inevitable inclusion of top-end gear in the store, there is, I think, another facet of the eternal convenience vs. advantage debate, and that is "achievement." (This may have been discussed earlier, but forgive me, my eyes were bleeding from trying to skim this thread. ಠ_ಠ) It's one thing to have any stat-related stuff and consumables and traits and relics and other non-fluff in the store, and then we get into stuff that, in terms of "playing the game," is "the point" for a number of players. For example, reputation mounts. Raid gear. Going there, huh, Turbine?
Yes, very good article indeed, very accurate and highlights all the major points around the issue.
Spiders in V1Pre-B13: 8-legged menace. B13: 8-legged bait. B14: 8-legged trap... no more! B15/MoM: 8-legged *splat!* Spiders in V2B7: We cope. B8: FotM? B9: 8-legged menace. Spiders in V3B3: Mourning for my hatchlings.
If people accept lower level OP armor because it's not level-cap raid armor, Turbine will take that as acceptance, and use that acceptance as an excuse to add higher tiers of armor, eventually reaching the level of the teal Orthanc armor or higher.
So far, Turbine has not removed anything from the store due to player feedback. If we take the attitude of "I won't complain until after raid armor is being sold", the battle will be lost. The damage will have been done.
If you don't want raid armor in the store, you need to voice that opinion NOW, not after it has been permanently introduced to the store.
The only thing I know of that was removed from the store was the rep mounts, and I noticed the other day that those had returned.
After giving it some thought, it seems to me that Turbine should just jump the shark. Put the damn top-tier armor in the Store already and get it over with. This slow death by a thousand cuts is more harmful to the game than anything else.
They are going to do it any way. This whole "we care what the players think" charade just damages them in the long run. Stop being wusses already and do what you mean to do, Turbine. Show some guts and commitment to your decisions and stop hiding behind bogus excuses.
Last edited by GalateaOrea; Jan 21 2012 at 02:47 PM.
Very well written, and also scathing, article. The words "shameless cash grab," "travesties," "seedy and underhanded," "gambling," and "pay to win" have now been used on a major gaming site in relation to Turbine - and not in the article comments. That's pretty far to fall for the once-darling of the media.
I am sure that Turbine's marketing, sales and business development people are pretty smart. But I am not sure if they understand the fact that reputation, like trust, is nearly impossible to regain once you've lost it. Perhaps they think they can "incentivize" third-party sites to do their bidding. Problem: it doesn't always work. And it certainly doesn't work with all the players they have sorely disappointed.
I didn't think we'd end up here, five years ago...
"Yet there may be a light beyond the darkness; and if so, I would have you see it and be glad."
frog in pot!
(Though to be honest, we were in the pot with stat tomes and such...)
Though I hate that the store gear can be vendored for silver, at least it's not so much that gold farmers would be willing to spend the $200USD for less than 20g, I imagine. Of course, there's the entire problem with stolen accounts, as others have pointed out--which is why the gear should have only a 1 copper vendor value. (I don't know if any other store item has vendor value, actually. ?)
...
Well, wait--what was the "problem" again? This sounds like the idiot suits who tried to convince players that the Instance Finder is a solution to some kind of problem the players have never, ever complained about,
I just wanted to keep that beautiful Frog Font alive! (though I do favor the more gourmet-sounding 'Slow Boiled Frog,' dusted with tiny, savory needles of our growing despair)
The thing about gold farmers hacking our accounts for 200 - remember, it's not THEIR 200 they're spending, it's the poor sod who was hacked. So, yes, I'd think they'd have no problem doing that.
Also, WoW's heirloom system was very good - that should be replicated here, and it would be easy to do, and something we could earn. WoW's instance finder seems to be beloved by people who don't mind being abused by random strangers, but it's one of the primary reasons I left the game. When I allow myself to tolerate abusiveness from a snarky teen, it's time to find another hobby. I don't see that *now* in LOTRO, but I can't help noticing that those objecting to the store have seemed mature and thoughtful. (and not as a reflection on age, but on... just not being a twit, I guess) If this game drops its integrity, it will attract the same people I fled from in WoW.
Don't do that, game. Just don't.
also: Road to Mordor article = Brilliance
I submitted a ticket to have my cc removed from my account, & my children's accounts. (There is, of course, no special tab for that.) I guess that's the first step to quitting. It's been really nice to see so many people who care about the actual book, & who seem to feel the same things I do about being able to wander around Middle Earth. It's actually very painful to be departing under this shadow, knowing by my own use of the store, I've helped make this happen, too.
It deeply saddens me to see the kind, sensitive, and good people who hoped for a game that shared the values in LOTR, but I don't think I've seen a single defense of this ever escalating, store-cash-grab that comes from any love or understanding of the world that brought us here. That means to me that the community itself will soon reflect not the spirit of Tolkien, but the ugly 'me first' mentality of too many mmos. I'd almost rather play one that didn't have the hope, because losing it is bitter indeed.
"At best, it's an honest attempt to fix a problem and meet customer's needs that uses the LotRO store as a crutch instead of dealing with it in the game itself."
That's the quote that stuck out to me the most. A crutch. Instead of incentivizing crafters, they tossed up some armour on the store. I completely understand that putting armour in the store takes less time than developing new armour, testing new armour, etc, or doing yet another revamp of crafting, but I still feel like that would have been the right thing to do if there truly were a problem with players being unable to obtain adequate low-level gear.
A friend and I are also keeping Windfola's AH stocked...he's doing heavy armor, my hunter is providing light/medium. And it's moving.
Wonder how the store gear is selling?
Same here on Firefoot. Probably sold close to 300 crit items so far since last week and quite a few non-crit. Was planning on doing another round of crafting tonight to post as my stocks are nearly gone for all ranges. Will probably add jewelry as well (T1-3).
I applaud your efforts to keep the AH stocked but I believe that Turbine is just waiting for you to exhaust your crit items. As all store-crafting scrolls are BOA you cannot even use your own TPs to help others. You can of course still get crit items from the skirmish vendors but after a bit, this effort will be worn down too.
The longer they[Turbine] wait to say or do anything, the easier it is for them to declare "we were right all the time."
Loading the AH today and tomorrow and the next day is only the start. This isn't a skirmish or a quick fix, it would need to be a long war to out do and out market the Store.
Turbine isn't listening.
By contrast the recent SWTOR video (1/17/2012) about upcoming changes and enhancements James Ohlen Game Director said that they will be listening the community very carefully. "You [the community] are the people who decide what kind of changes we need to make to make to the game. Because this game is for you guys." Comments are at [1:44/2:14]
I think the folks at Turbine should go play SWTOR for a while as they have lost sight of who is the game for.
Last edited by SabrielofLorien; Jan 21 2012 at 06:26 PM.
Reason: typo
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! <Your winnings, sir.>
[sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
I applaud your efforts to keep the AH stocked but I believe that Turbine is just waiting for you to exhaust your crit items. As all store-crafting scrolls are BOA you cannot even use your own TPs to help others. You can of course still get crit items from the skirmish vendors but after a bit, this effort will be worn down too.
The longer they[Turbine] wait to say or do anything, the easier it is for them to declare "we were right all the time."
Loading the AH today and tomorrow and the next day is only the start. This isn't a skirmish or a quick fix, it would need to be a long war to out do and out market the Store.
Turbine isn't listening.
By contrast the recent SWTOR video (1/17/2012) about upcoming changes and enhancements James Ohlen Game Director said that they will be listening the community very carefully. "You [the community] are the people who decide what kind of changes we need to make to make to the game. Because this game is for you guys." Comments are at [1:44/2:14]
I think the folks at Turbine should go play SWTOR for a while as they have lost sight of who is the game for.
They might as well; a number of their customers appear to have done so.
You are right, of course, this is not a "quick fix". For me it started out as an experiment, then my heavy armor crafting friend got into the act, and now I'm just doing it because it's fun and different. My elf hunter is about to head into that ludicrous "Let's let a fully armed and equipped prisoner run loose in Isengard" sojourn, and I'm not particularly anxious to repeat that. So having her play seamstress for the people is a nice break.
The whole process for removing credit card info is ludicrous. Most companies just have a delete button by the stored info but no. not here. I had to search around and google in order to find a link and then fill out the information and form. then I had an email confirming the deletion... and then had TO REFILL OUT THE FORM yet again. It was time consuming, obtuse and incredibly over done for info that they had no right to store after a sub is cancelled.
about the article, I found the bit about the execs getting a report on the post count and those for it or against it... but which post count? the real one or the trimmed one after so many pages of posts have been arbitrarily deleted? In the end they get a modified report in a buried thread. well done!
By contrast the recent SWTOR video (1/17/2012) about upcoming changes and enhancements James Ohlen Game Director said that they will be listening the community very carefully. "You [the community] are the people who decide what kind of changes we need to make to make to the game. Because this game is for you guys." Comments are at [1:44/2:14]
I think the folks at Turbine should go play SWTOR for a while as they have lost sight of who is the game for.
when i saw the vid the other day i got a strong sense of deja-vu.
see back in the good ole days(SoA) right at launch we had one of those vids from old Steefel pretty much saying the same thing verbatim.
would love to see turbine to that original philosophy once again.
By contrast the recent SWTOR video (1/17/2012) about upcoming changes and enhancements James Ohlen Game Director said that they will be listening the community very carefully. "You [the community] are the people who decide what kind of changes we need to make to make to the game. Because this game is for you guys." Comments are at [1:44/2:14]
I think the folks at Turbine should go play SWTOR for a while as they have lost sight of who is the game for.
Uh. LOL. Oh, you poor sods who actually think Bioware/EA listens to their deeply divided constituency (lol swtor forums, MMO fanatics versus Bioware SRPG fanatics) when they were rolling in $$$-million funding with Lucas to reinvent the MMO wheel based on a single-player vision instead of studying the polished MMOs already on the market and not properly beta-testing the release or Patch 1.1, which was created only to add new buggy untested content and not fix any major issues from the initial roll-out besides creating one of the most awesome PvP exploits ever. Yeah. (Patches by definition are supposed to fix and tweak things, not merely add new content, and must certainly be properly tested for big exploits/bugs. In contrast, LotRO's Patch 5.1 is mostly very good in addressing bugs as well as new Quality of Life features--things that players have asked for, even, though it took a while to finally get timestamps!)
If people believe WB ruined Turbine, certainly EA ruined Bioware. And honestly, haven't you people learned at all? That is a suit talking. Turbine already went through this years ago--BioEA is just following the same lip-flap pattern.
But back to topic.
Originally Posted by Laweh
The whole process for removing credit card info is ludicrous. Most companies just have a delete button by the stored info but no. not here. I had to search around and google in order to find a link and then fill out the information and form. then I had an email confirming the deletion... and then had TO REFILL OUT THE FORM yet again. It was time consuming, obtuse and incredibly over done for info that they had no right to store after a sub is cancelled.
about the article, I found the bit about the execs getting a report on the post count and those for it or against it... but which post count? the real one or the trimmed one after so many pages of posts have been arbitrarily deleted? In the end they get a modified report in a buried thread. well done!
Unfortunately, I'm sure many people do not have this option, but depending on your credit card's online services, you may be able to create one-time-use "temporary" numbers with both a set limit and, more importantly, an arbitrary expiration date (I set mine to 2 months from time of creation). I don't particularly worry about card numbers that have expired, that is.
...and not properly beta-testing the release..., which was created only to add new buggy untested content and not fix any major issues from the initial roll-out besides creating one of the most awesome PvP exploits ever...
I agree but then you lost me... The above snip it defines a lot of Turbine updates too... If you've been on any LOTRO beta tests, you can attest that the above is the norm for Turbine.
But you are correct, what they say may not be what they do. The early days of LOTRO they did most of what they said. Later not so much. Now, hardly at all.
Now, how is that Warleader exploit or the new PVP zone? Oh I know! The new PVP zone is right here in this thread! Focus Fire on the Creeps er Turbine Management! And the Warleader doing the exploit is MrFP... (joking)
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! <Your winnings, sir.>
[sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
Uh. LOL. Oh, you poor sods who actually think Bioware/EA listens to their deeply divided constituency (lol swtor forums, MMO fanatics versus Bioware SRPG fanatics) when they were rolling in $$$-million funding with Lucas to reinvent the MMO wheel based on a single-player vision instead of studying the polished MMOs already on the market and not properly beta-testing the release or Patch 1.1, which was created only to add new buggy untested content and not fix any major issues from the initial roll-out besides creating one of the most awesome PvP exploits ever. Yeah. (Patches by definition are supposed to fix and tweak things, not merely add new content, and must certainly be properly tested for big exploits/bugs. In contrast, LotRO's Patch 5.1 is mostly very good in addressing bugs as well as new Quality of Life features--things that players have asked for, even, though it took a while to finally get timestamps!)
I don't know... an mmo that is closer to single-player sounds pretty much perfect to me, & my experience with these supposed 'polished MMOs' hasn't been quite the delight you describe. I'm not finding anything on SW that's any worse than, say, the Pit of Doom Death-Falls, and so far, that single-player rp aspect has been wonderful. I wish the setting was Middle Earth and not Galaxy Far, but it's nice to be away from the traditional MMO format.
As for the forums on Bioware, they could use some heavily armed moderators, & I don't care a bit for the freedom of speech complaint - it's not national politics, it's a gaming forum, & I don't think one second of abusiveness should be tolerated. Players seem to be coming mainly from WoW, which isn't a good thing, because the WoW player base seemed trained for sociopathic Bratness. This community is 1000x better. But I found a nice little pve server, & it's been fine. Rotten people are everywhere - even here, in the Pit of Doom (of course, it WOULD happen there) my daughter fell through one of the invisible death traps, onto the Devourer, & had some grand, gentlemanly player spit on her for 'taking his kill.' (He's an elitist raider, I believe - I can't say I think much of that type, either.)
Off track there (I still wish that guy a slap, btw) - but I wouldn't be sorry to see 'polished mmos' get an overhaul, because they've all come to feel pretty stale to me. Every one has become all about gear. I don't care about gear - I want a story, I want fun combat, I want a world to virtually live in whenever I log on. If that can't be done with integrity here anymore, there *are* other places to explore.
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Originally Posted by Ayrolen
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(Patches by definition are supposed to fix and tweak things, not merely add new content, and must certainly be properly tested for big exploits/bugs. In contrast, LotRO's Patch 5.1 is mostly very good in addressing bugs as well as new Quality of Life features--things that players have asked for, even, though it took a while to finally get timestamps!)
And honestly, haven't you people learned at all? That is a suit talking. Turbine already went through this years ago--BioEA is just following the same lip-flap pattern. 
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