Thread: What is new in the store, armors?????

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

The Turbine Store should not be competing against players. The Turbine Store is offering crafted-type material in several professions, and has been for a long time. That should never have happened. The Turbine Store is offering 'solutions' to what appears to be an invented problem, when the real solution should have been given in quest rewards, improved crafting, better skirmish armour for that tragically ill-supplied L20 level.

But it's just 'mean' of us to say so - that's 'insulting' Turbine. How absolutely dreadful of us all.

None of this address my question to Sabriel's comment that there are store only items "necessary to properly play the game". Are you trying to say the level 20 armor is "necessary to properly play the game"?

Originally Posted by PerinStone

None of this address my question to Sabriel's comment that there are store only items "necessary to properly play the game". Are you trying to say the level 20 armor is "necessary to properly play the game"?

I'm not 'trying to say' anything. I'm not answering your question. I felt your question was a diversion, trying to nit pick and evade the actual issue. So, no, I'd prefer not to further engage with you, or the other guy. Thanks, anyway.

Why are you intentionally trying to get this topic closed? Return to the main point of this topic, we dont want the Uber armors in the store, if you cannot comment about it, please create your own topic where you can post whatever you want.

We players who care about the game, we want the game to remain for many more years. So please stop hijacking this topic.

Originally Posted by Ellyllon

I'm not 'trying to say' anything. I'm not answering your question. I felt your question was a diversion, trying to nit pick and evade the actual issue. So, no, I'd prefer not to further engage with you, or the other guy. Thanks, anyway.

A diversion from what? The discussion about level 20 armour? I was questioning someones post about what they would like to see regarding the store. Namely the implication that store bought items are required to play the game well. An implication that I find laughable.

If you would like to discuss the "actual issue", I see nothing wrong with the level 20 armor. Even if it leads to high end armour in the future. None of the complaints I've seen in the last week have changed that opinion.

They're taking notice of unique posts so here goes.. (not used to doing this)

I started October 2010 because of the F2P thing. I was broke with two jobs trying my best to take care of my family but really wanted to play a great game. I have to say that I found it in LOTRO. Since that time, I've gotten a little more disposable income and have gone VIP. The F2P model worked for me to get me in the door and provided me a way to buy the expansions as I could. I bought TPS through their store and went VIP to purchase Moria. I have purchased other things from the store (relic removal scrolls and almost the hunter steed, but I couldn't afford it). I truly love the experience, the community, **especially** the lore, and almost everything else about LOTRO. This was my first MMO (I'm 30 btw.. not a high school kid) and I found the experience truly amazing!

Since I started, I've read many many rants and raves against Turbine and haven't agreed with many. It seemed to me that people would find something to gripe about and just go to town. I guess you could call me a Turbine supporter.. mostly because I really really enjoy this game.

However, the direction that Turbine is taking here is one that I cannot defend nor do I have any desire to try. Many of the arguments made on this thread are relevant and spoken with true concern for the direction of this game. I hope that the higher-ups will take notice of these, remove the armor from the store, and take this opportunity to adjust their course.

I don't want to see LOTRO become like the social media games or the mobile device games. They are, for the most part, nothing more than time wasters that greatly rely on micro purchases. These purchases are great boosts for quick income, but seriously degrade the quality and playability of their game.

I REALLY REALLY want Turbine to prove this guy wrong. http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01...-high-quality/ and they most definitely can. They must listen to the community. They must find creative ways to improve the game (in game and in the store <-- obviously it helps to pay the bills), and they must start now.

Ended my sub today. Will look for a play to win game. Pay to win is not a game in my wiev.

Guess this is the last time i try a game from Turbine.

Originally Posted by PerinStone

None of this address my question to Sabriel's comment that there are store only items "necessary to properly play the game". Are you trying to say the level 20 armor is "necessary to properly play the game"?

If the supposed feedback from low-level players that the armor was put in the store for is any indication, then yes, even Turbine feels it's "necessary to properly play the game".

Ok, the bickering and insulting between users needs to end. If you wish to post here, please post with your opinion on the store armors. Do not make comments about what other users have previously said -- they are entitled to their personal opinions. I've just gone through here and deleted a bunch of posts, and so has Ornaith.

Let's keep this discussion on track -- opinions and thoughts on the store armors.

Originally Posted by PerinStone

What exactly is only found in the store that is "necessary to properly play the game" apart from the relic removal scroll? And I think its a stretch to say even that is "necessary".

I will reply to this one time.

First: This is my list of what I want Turbine/WB to do. If you don't like my list, please post your own.

Second: The Devs and Game Designers know what it takes to play the game, now and into the future.

There are requirements that must be met to play the game. You need a PC for example. This you must provide yourself. There are device requirements too: keyboard, mouse, controller whatever a person needs to interface with the game. Again these you must provide for yourself.

However, once you have provided the necessary equipment, installed the game and begun play all the items you need to play the game should be provided inside the game. If you need a quest: a NPC quest giver is provided or other mechanism to give you the quest. If you need to travel from on part of the game board to another, transportation needs to be provided (even if it's running to the area). If you need to obtain and item or armour or weapon to advance your toon, these shall be included in game for you to play successfully.

Success does not mean Instant Raid Ready-to-Wear Gear bought from the store. It needs to be obtained within the confines of the game. One cannot battle Draigoch in your "small clothes" and be successful, armour weapons to be earned in game should be available in game and not for purchase in the store.

This does not mean you cannot fight Draigoch in your "small clothes" should you chose to do so, but the opportunity to get the armour and weapons needed and all the parts, scrolls or other bits n pieces that might be needed in the future all need to be available and are "necessary" to the game.

Store items can still be there. Convenience is the word here. Cosmetics, non-rep horses, emotes and other items that have been in the store should remain available to all players. New items should be added too but if it is a game play item, there needs to be a method of obtaining In Game. An in game deed that cannot be completed without purchase something from the store would be an example of something "necessary" that needs to be provided in game.

There are quite a lot of items that fall under the definition of "necessary". I think Turbine and the Playerbase are able to discuss and resolve any ambiguity that might arise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessary

Ok I am going to tell what I get from the store. First to make it clear. I work 10 hours day so I have very little time left to attend my family, do stuff for work and play games. So I only play LOTRO. The main items I get are double deed slayer when attempting the 150 and 300 mobs that give you deeds. Maps when trying to teleport to really tricky areas like Angmar.

Also I get when getting ready to solo fellowship quests, some pots for morale and power. I have bought in the past the VIP, expansions, extra storage, extra cosmetic storage and when tomes go on sale I buy some. I dont mind buying from the store.

Now armor I will not buy because I can craft them, so for me no need, that in the future when I reach 75 I may change my opinion about this option? hmmmm dunno, I experienced in WoW what meant not to have the top raid gear, you never get invited to any raid, so if this become an issue I may shift my opinion of selling top end game gear so I can be invited to raids.

My addition to the headcount.

Dear executives in charge of the direction of this beloved game:

I've played Lord of the Ring's online, off and on, for about 3 years time. I keep coming back to the game because of the story. Tolkien's world, as interpreted by Turbine, keeps luring me with memories of the beauty of Rivendell and the joyfulness of The Shire.

The store...should be something I can ignore as a player, as far as game play goes. . I don't want to have to spend cash to be on equal footing with other players in the game. Anything for sale in the store should also be available in game at a reasonable amount of player effort/time. From comparing the low level gear for sale in the store to what is available in the game...that equal footing is not there. It's not fair to all types of players...players who can't spend cash in the store are just...marginalized. No one likes the feeling of being marginalized.

I want to immerse myself into the world of Tolkien. I want to escape my thoughts about my job, my retirement account (or lack there of), my worries of the day. I want to log-on to my Minstrel and play music with friends...and yes, I do want to kill internet dragons.

I know WB/Turbine has to make a profit with Lord of the Rings Online or the game servers will go dark...but please, make the cash you need to keep the game going in a way that doesn't penalize segments of your player base.

Regards,
CS.

For MMO players:
http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/pay-to-win/

Executive summary:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pay+to+win

Interesting statement regarding our recent developments here: http://www.industrygamers.com/news/n...-not-possible/

F2P inevitably leads to 'Pay-to-Win' (however you define it) after all?

Thought that I would make one last post with my feedback on alternatives to placing armour in the store.

Between adding reliable sources for places to obtain T2 one-shot scrolls and shards (3x repeatble bounties in Bree/Lone-lands and the skirmish camp for crit items) and the fact that you can crit after just being proficient vs. mastery of a tier - that could/should have helped the lower-end market and crafting availability.

But I can state that after 3-4 days of posting crit armour on Firefoot's AH, there is definitely a demand that I can no way keep up with given the current crafting/AH systems. On Sat. I crafted nearly 500 items of T1-T3 gear light/medium/heavy (roughly >60 items for nearly every tier/armour combination and stored on 8 alts to post on AH), most of them crit and have been keeping them on the AH as I can. A good deal over 50% of them have sold in less than 3 days and I sold out of T3 crit Medium armour in the first day, T3 Heavy Armor the 2nd, and others over time.

The problem arises in the fact that I can spend hours crafting the armour to put up on the AH tracking alt inventory and maintaining a gigantic supply of crit items or I can spend 1 minute posting the raw resources on the AH and make as much or more from their sales. While we've heard the armour was the store's solution to this problem, there are a few alternatives to help the game rather than band-aid the problem (even some using alternative store purchases). Among them:

• Remove the need for crit items after you have mastered the tier (or 2 tiers) above the craft tier. If I have mastered T3, then I should be able to auto-crit T1-2 (not counting the "shard recipes"). This still keeps crit crafting needed at the highest tier, but allows lower level armour to be created each time that is valuable and removes the need to farm for crit items to craft the gear. The crit items can then still be used on component pieces so they would still be desired. Using marks is "so-so" for crafting for personal use/kin use, but if the choice is spending 1200 marks on a stack of T3 Tailor crit items or spending the marks/medallions for a SoGE you'll make far more money in less time going for the SoGE.
• Single-use recipes for lower than max tier need to become repeatable. The shards/flakes/sigils still can be used for critting the "best" of the tier and the guild symbols can be used for the auto-crit, but single-use recipes for T2-4 are just a pain to collect find. The top tier should still have single-shot recipes.
• Allow for the ability to place more than 30 items per character on the AH (even through store purchase). If I want to keep up a good supply on the AH of various armor pieces/sets, the 30 max is very annoying. I can still post 100s of items on the AH, so it's not that I cannot post them, but I have to swap all the items between the crafting alt AH alt. Also, the the buyer doesn't know that the AH poster is an alt of mine so they cannot tell if it's an alt or someone playing the AH picking up the crafted materials and reposting.
• Allow for an extension to the posting time on the AH (even through the store - yes a another different store suggestion) of up to 1 week. With a time of 2 days, it's a pain on slow AH days to re-post everything (especially when the cost of each item is not saved). A once-per-week posting & >30 postings would help substantially for those that want to maintain a lower-level crafting stapple of goods.
• Update the AH to have some tools/information to track goods I've sold. I'd like to be able to track what I've sold in the past at what cost and how long the posting lasted, if anything so I don't have to keep a pricing schedule outside of the game for various pieces. The information doesn't have track everything on the AH, but at least give me some trackable information so the posting-re-posting process is less of a headache for a dedicated crafter. If I've sold zzzz item 100 times, it should remember what I listed it at even if there has not been an item posted while I've been online.

There are more things I could probably suggest and many that others have suggested, but there are at least a handful that could have improved the crafting/AH systems to provide a better variety of lower-lever goods to all players without adding armour to the store. I just wish straight statted gear could have been avoided.

Originally Posted by Sapience

There are some suggestions that no one of importance reads this thread, or the forums, and that ultimately the only way to get any attention on the subject is to email or write letters to various people.

Not sure which forums you have been reading, but YOU WISH people are only trying to get attention by email or write letters. Numerous people in this thread and many others have already stated they either cancelled, have moved on, or have resolved not to spend another dime on Turbine. *That* is the reality you guys are looking at. I have been following this and other issues and I don't remember a single poster saying "oh if thats the case I'm gonna write a letter". Many people including myself have been urging folks to vote their displeasure with their spending. Nothing more, nothing less. If you guys are still sitting back waiting for the letters to come in then this ship is not seeing the reefs that is ahead.

Reposting this from another thread as it turned out more generic than I had intended.

I'm not the type of player that enjoys "grinding".
I have no interest in spending countless hours repeating the same instances over and over and over again, I want to go there once or maybe twice to enjoy the content, but then I want to move on to other adventures.
After a dozen times the place is old news, like a bubblegum that's had all its flavour chewed out, and is now only a hardened chunk of tasteless goo.
Maybe, given enough time, I might want to re-experience that content with an alt, or simply for the sake of nostalgia.

I don't want to pay for easely skipping past "old" content, I want to pay for more new content !
More awesome places to go, more cool things to do, more adventures, more enemies to pummel into the ground.
I'd much rather ther put in more warg skins/models and more areas they roam in, and more reasons to visit those areas other than grinding a warg-slayer deed, that I would be willing to pay for, not a slayer-deed scroll.

But increasing quality and quantity of the game to increase profits, seems to be ideals that Turbine have abandoned in favor of subterfuge and deceit to increase profits.

Originally Posted by LadyDena

... this ship is not seeing the reefs that is ahead.

I think it's actually gone beyond the issue of having statted armor in the store, though that still may be at issue. What the execs or decision makers in the offices there in Boston need to be facing now is how to rebuild community trust in the company. Most of the people who have posted in this thread, if I'm not too far mistaken, won't leave the game. Their love for Middle Earth and Tolkien's story is too deep. But they also won't pay for anything offered by the company, and they certainly won't trust any statement made by the company. That's been thrown away by not publicly announcing a move contrary to a publicly made statement in 2010.

You can remove the armor from the store; well and good. You can change the stats on the armor to be commensurate with available in-game gear; well and good. You can drop the price on task resets back to 50TP; again, well and good. You can unbug all the bugged material in the game; all well and good. But what are you going to do to regain the trust of your customers? A public answer to that, outlining the steps planned on being taken, and then adhering to that plan would go far. But to rebuild and regain that trust broken in a single weekend will take years. As a company, are you willing to look that far ahead? Or as a company, are you only looking at quarterly numbers? If you do at all value the long-time customer base you have recently alienated, you'll have to do some things that may irk you, go against your grain, make you lose face with your peers.

As a company, you need to ask if short-term is better than long-term. Then you will need to define the answer to that question to your customers. If, that is, you are at all interested in rebuilding the trust you've broken. Don't underestimate the social voice your customer has. In this era of ease of communication, word of reputation, whether good or bad, can and will spread far and fast.

Originally Posted by Fipiara

Thought that I would make one last post with my feedbank on alternatives to placing armour in the store.

Between adding reliable sources for places to obtain T2 one-shot scrolls and shards (3x repeatble bounties in Bree/Lone-lands and the skirmish camp for crit items) and the fact that you can crit after just being proficient vs. mastery of a tier - that could/should have helped the lower-end market and crafting availability.

But I can state that after 3-4 days of posting crit armour on Firefoot's AH, there is definitely a demand that I can no way keep up with given the current crafting/AH systems. On Sat. I crafted nearly 500 items of T1-T3 gear light/medium/heavy (roughly >60 items for nearly every tier/armour combination and stored on 8 alts to post on AH), most of them crit and have been keeping them on the AH as I can. A good deal over 50% of them have sold in less than 3 days and I sold out of T3 crit Medium armour in the first day, T3 Heavy Armor the 2nd, and others over time.

The problem arises in the fact that I can spend hours crafting the armour to put up on the AH tracking alt inventory and maintaining a gigantic supply of crit items or I can spend 1 minute posting the raw resources on the AH and make as much or more from their sales. While we've heard the armour was the store's solution to this problem, there are a few alternatives to help the game rather than band-aid the problem (even some using alternative store purchases). Among them:

• Remove the need for crit items after you have mastered the tier (or 2 tiers) above the craft tier. If I have mastered T3, then I should be able to auto-crit T1-2 (not counting the "shard recipes"). This still keeps crit crafting needed at the highest tier, but allows lower level armour to be created each time that is valuable and removes the need to farm for crit items to craft the gear. The crit items can then still be used on component pieces so they would still be desired. Using marks is "so-so" for crafting for personal use/kin use, but if the choice is spending 1200 marks on a stack of T3 Tailor crit items or spending the marks/medallions for a SoGE you'll make far more money in less time going for the SoGE.
• Single-use recipes for lower than max tier need to become repeatable. The shards/flakes/sigils still can be used for critting the "best" of the tier and the guild symbols can be used for the auto-crit, but single-use recipes for T2-4 are just a pain to collect find. The top tier should still have single-shot recipes.
• Allow for the ability to place more than 30 items per character on the AH (even through store purchase). If I want to keep up a good supply on the AH of various armor pieces/sets, the 30 max is very annoying. I can still post 100s of items on the AH, so it's not that I cannot post them, but I have to swap all the items between the crafting alt AH alt. Also, the the buyer doesn't know that the AH poster is an alt of mine so they cannot tell if it's an alt or someone playing the AH picking up the crafted materials and reposting.
• Allow for an extension to the posting time on the AH (even through the store - yes a another different store suggestion) of up to 1 week. With a time of 2 days, it's a pain on slow AH days to re-post everything (especially when the cost of each item is not saved). A once-per-week posting & >30 postings would help substantially for those that want to maintain a lower-level crafting stapple of goods.
• Update the AH to have some tools/information to track goods I've sold. I'd like to be able to track what I've sold in the past at what cost and how long the posting lasted, if anything so I don't have to keep a pricing schedule outside of the game for various pieces. The information doesn't have track everything on the AH, but at least give me some trackable information so the posting-re-posting process is less of a headache for a dedicated crafter. If I've sold zzzz item 100 times, it should remember what I listed it at even if there has not been an item posted while I've been online.

There are more things I could probably suggest and many that others have suggested, but there are at least a handful that could have improved the crafting/AH systems to provide a better variety of lower-lever goods to all players without adding armour to the store. I just wish straight statted gear could have been avoided.

All good suggestions! I think the nature of crafting is definitely the problem here. I think the nature of guild professions needs to change immediately. This 'one week cd' needs to go, if we're to ably supply lower level players. (letting us make a set with a crafting kit does NOT count, btw!)

Single use recipes need to die horribly & be forgotten, after being smacked around. They make NO logical sense & I'm not a follower of logic normally! Just - get rid of them. If we get a crit, ONE crit, it should be added to our recipes, & be ours to make for extra mats. That's that. We'll have lowbies in glowing gear in now time, given the chance.

Skirmish rewards - make them cheaper & better, & problem solved.

Store armour sets a bad, bad precedent for the game, & for the store itself. Players need to come first - if we're not doing our job as crafters, look at the job & make it better. Right now, it's something of a mess.

Originally Posted by Celestrata

Let's keep this discussion on track -- opinions and thoughts on the store armors.

Opinion : that's a shame, your are going too far with the store.
Store is for cosmetic. Store is not there to equip players, store is not there to kill the craft.

Originally Posted by Abiyah

I think it's actually gone beyond the issue of having statted armor in the store, though that still may be at issue. What the execs or decision makers in the offices there in Boston need to be facing now is how to rebuild community trust in the company. Most of the people who have posted in this thread, if I'm not too far mistaken, won't leave the game. Their love for Middle Earth and Tolkien's story is too deep. But they also won't pay for anything offered by the company, and they certainly won't trust any statement made by the company. That's been thrown away by not publicly announcing a move contrary to a publicly made statement in 2010.

You can remove the armor from the store; well and good. You can change the stats on the armor to be commensurate with available in-game gear; well and good. You can drop the price on task resets back to 50TP; again, well and good. You can unbug all the bugged material in the game; all well and good. But what are you going to do to regain the trust of your customers? A public answer to that, outlining the steps planned on being taken, and then adhering to that plan would go far. But to rebuild and regain that trust broken in a single weekend will take years. As a company, are you willing to look that far ahead? Or as a company, are you only looking at quarterly numbers? If you do at all value the long-time customer base you have recently alienated, you'll have to do some things that may irk you, go against your grain, make you lose face with your peers.

As a company, you need to ask if short-term is better than long-term. Then you will need to define the answer to that question to your customers. If, that is, you are at all interested in rebuilding the trust you've broken. Don't underestimate the social voice your customer has. In this era of ease of communication, word of reputation, whether good or bad, can and will spread far and fast.

This expresses my feelings as well, much better than I ever could.

I have been playing for a little over a year, just made it out of Moria on my main, and have enjoyed my time here immensely.

However, because of my unease with the choices being made regarding store content and pricing, I'm starting to try to figure out which of my characters I'll give up when my subscription runs out in a few months. I plan to drop to Premium and I've already decided to stop spending any more money on the game in the meantime.

Ok, execs...if you really are reading this thread, here is what I have to say.

First off, I have two pieces of material that I wrote in months prior for mymiddle-earth.net:

http://mymiddle-earth.net/blog/2011/...-players-rant/ <-- written prior to Return On Investment.

http://mymiddle-earth.net/blog/2012/...-rant-round-2/ <-- written a short time ago

These may not be entirely up to date, but they give you the idea of just how far my trust in the people behind this game has been eroded.

I love Middle-earth. I love the books, the movies, and the games. I joined this community in 2008 and fell in love with the world that Turbine created. It is immense, it is diverse, it is immersive -- and, above all, it is wonderful.

I happily plunked down $300 in 2009 for my lifetime subscription, in addition to $50 for Moria. In my opinion, it was money well-spent -- I spent months running through the halls of the dwarves, and the woods of the elves.

Mirkwood was lacklustre, but it wasn't outright bad -- and it was enough for $20. And, given the state of the economy at the time, I could cut Turbine some slack.

The trouble didn't start until Free to Play went live. Back in June 2010, when I heard the news, I was excited. F2P = more $ = more dev resources = more (and better) content. And, "the Turbine Store will sell convenience, not advantage"! Oh, joy! It seemed too good to be true!

It WAS too good to be true.

The store sells advantage. Period. It did so from the moment it went live. First it was morale/power pots better than the ones in game, then it was relic removal scrolls, damage reduction scrolls, in-combat-run-speed boosts...now THIS???

We were SPECIFICALLY told that the Turbine Store would NOT sell armour with stats. But why should they stop here, since crossing lines is their favourite pasttime?

--Legendary items will grow with you.
--Look for a new PVMP zone with Moria (and later, with Isengard).
--We have no plans to go free-to-play at this time.
--The Turbine Store will sell convenience, not advantage.
--We have no plans to sell armour with stats in the store.

For the record, I am NOT against free-to-play in any way. So long as the game remained the focus, and the store remained on the side, chances are, the company could not only have avoided this whole fiasco, but the game could have become more successful than any of us could have imagined. THAT is the way to develop any product -- make a product of surpassing quality, and people will gladly pay for it.

But no. The store became the focus, and the game is now a shadow of what it once was (and could have been). That is the paradox of corporate greed -- in an attempt to get as much money as possible, you end up making less than you should. I can't say for certain, but I may very well have found something I like in the store -- say a special emblem for my captain or something -- and I might very well have bought a bundle of Turbine Points. Not only that, but I'd recommend the game to my friends, thereby increasing the number of players (and, by extension, PAYers).

Instead, I flat out REFUSE to spend another penny on this game -- IF I get Return on Investment (I'm sorry, Rise of Isengard) at all, it will be with Turbine Points -- all of them acquired with my monthly allotment and deed grinding. Also, that free gift my new characters receive at the start of the game? Any time I find those advantage items in it (you know what I'm talking about -- the pots and damage reduction scrolls), I DESTROY them out of principle, rather than use them to help my gameplay. That is how much I hate them. The only thing I've found in there that I have used is a slayer-deed accelerator (which, to be perfectly honest, was pretty handy...I have to give credit where it's due, I guess).

Bottom line is, you crossed a line knowingly and willingly -- a line that you had drawn for yourselves, no less. I shudder to think what lesson you're teaching your kids with this kind of thing (no, honey...it's perfectly fine to lie and cheat, so long as you profit from it). There's an old proverb that reads, "Promise less; deliver more" that you would do well to incorporate into your business plan.

Another ridiculous step taken by Turbine that is proving that they have no ability to stand behind their word. I have been against the store since the first mention of it. However, I trusted they would stick to the simple enhancing of the game instead of replacing things with store only options. I understand the store in certain aspects and can deal with it, but once they did things like making relic removal scrolls "store only" I figured that was the start of something really, really bad. Granted that isn't really the biggest issue, but it was a small step in the wrong direction in which they took a huge leap with this whole armor thing. Yes it's low level gear, but that isn't the point. They gone against their word in a HUGE way and unless something major happens soon I think they'll be losing me as a VIP and most likely all together.

I've cancelled all my accounts and subs, that 17 chars I was happy to buy the occasional storage space, deed boost or task refill. Cant be bothered with a game that has no respect for its money source, us .. the players. Now they are removing posts, no one reads this thread anyways but the moderators, the execs couldnt give a fig what all of us are saying. I'm onto other games now and they will get my money and time. I will make sure to post my review of LoTR in all the game reviews out there and spread by word of mouth how Warner Brothers and Turbine ruined what was one of the best games out there.

I don't like the idea personally, but those threatening to quit over it seem to be overreacting

If people want to spend TP on things they'll just outgrow and buy more of, I say let them. Turbine makes more money, and the players who actually want this advantage keep wasting their money.

If i were to waste 1500-2000 tp, it'd be on something useful/permanent. like, say, a steed.

Let them have their armour. As long as it's not top-tier raid armour I can live with it

Originally Posted by Uron

Let them have their armour. As long as it's not top-tier raid armour I can live with it

And where did you see the statement they would not put raid level armour in? The one I saw said "not at this time". To me that just means "not right now but sooooon."

So what do you care if I can buy better uber armour than you? You can have your ingame armour but I will be better than you in my Store Bought Armour.

You see, it cuts both ways... If you let it, it's all in.


Turbine’s Director of Communications, Adam Mersky January 18, 2012
"...we have no intention at this time of selling any raid gear in the store."

http://www.gamefront.com/lotro-gets-...level-players/

A note to Turbine.

Did you know that... there's a LOT of stuff about this topic NOT in your forums?

I didn't, until I did a bit of Google and WOW! I thought it was just us on this thread but I was wrong.

You guys are gonna have one heckofamess to clean up. All those deleted posts saved out on 3d party forums. Copies of graphics and images that have been purged. Those are out there FOREVER.

I do hope you get your fingers in the dike soon. Really, don't you think you have enough info by now to make a decision? It's easy there's only 2 possibilities:

A) The stuff stays in the store. {some of us will just move on}
B) The stuff gets removed from the store permanently even if you have to do a rollback to pre5.1. {some of us will cheer and there will be celebrations in ME}

Time to earn your salaries folks..

I had no idea either. Wow, why on earth did they do that? What is with hiding/deleting civil posts that question policies? It's bizarre and totally unnecessary. It would be more advantageous to try to answer and explain to customers that are disenchanted with a product. Alot of times customer service can save the day for the buyer and the seller. good luck to all and have a great day of gaming, whereever that is.

Originally Posted by Uron

I don't like the idea personally, but those threatening to quit over it seem to be overreacting

If people want to spend TP on things they'll just outgrow and buy more of, I say let them. Turbine makes more money, and the players who actually want this advantage keep wasting their money.

If i were to waste 1500-2000 tp, it'd be on something useful/permanent. like, say, a steed.

Let them have their armour. As long as it's not top-tier raid armour I can live with it

I think I understand your point, but I can't fully agree. In my view, it's not about whether the store armour will one day undercut the importance of raiding. I don't care a bit about raiding personally, but I do care about the overall quality and content of the game. I also care very much that a new player, who enters with as much hope & wonder as I did, is facing an honest game, and honest professions.

Turbine built this system - they built the nature of crafting here. They gave us cute animations (except WHAT is my woodworker cutting...?) Anyway, they created this, and they should fix what they've done, so that we, IN GAME, can make the most of it. Right now, it's a pain. I spend time 'crafting,' while watching tv, reading - doing laundry. ("I could wash these socks. I mean, they're not really dirty, but I have 586 more ore to smelt...") I can't make a set of armour for my niece, because of the outdated craft guild system. I can make her a helm & a week later, fluffy mittens. I'm a guilded tailor (and ok, just about every other profession) What makes my character so feeble in skill, when in theory, I've earned the right to be included in this super elite group? Why do I find a recipe, make an item (which usually fails to crit) then FORGET IT??? UGH!

I don't accept the 'if it doesn't quite match up to raider gear, it's ok' attitude. I didn't see that this is about raiders, anyway. It's about making the content of the game as good as it can be. If this game is just a race to max so you can raid, it's just WoW with a better setting. Is that what IF is all about? (ugh, probably) There's a game I'd pay to avoid.

I do agree with those who have said they felt F2P and the store could have worked & been integrated to advantage. As it is, that's not the case. There's this awful, acutely depressing moment when you realize it's all about the store now - I'd like to spare new people that moment, truly. I've gone from a trusting fangirl to cynic, and I hate cynicism, enough to have deluded myself for a long time. If they change course, I'll be right back to fangirl. I admire people who admit mistakes, just as I admire people who recover from hardship more than those who haven't suffered at all. They can still do this. Not sure I'm seeing the evidence, but there is still hope.

Ellyllon's elloquence has expressed my thoughts on the matter very well. Crafting is a very important part of the game for me. It's important that my characters can not only kill but also create. I take care to chose a vocation that matches the class and character of the character, for example my champion is an armsman, my guardian a metalsmith, my lore-master a scholar. And, along with the cosmetic system, for me it makes the character feel a little more fleshed out than just a walking bunch of skills on cooldowns. Also, it is simply satisfying to use items that you 'made for yourself'.

So, I also lament the poor state of crafting (especially over level 60 in terms of gear quality). I fear that, with gear in the store, Turbine actually has a negative incentive to improve the state of crafting and the player economy. After all if less players craft, supplies drop and the infinite supply of store gear becomes effectively cheaper and more accessible.

So, while gear is in the store this makes crafters competitors of the store, and I fear future developments will continue to treat us as such. With no gear in the store (including tools) it's in Turbine's interest to develop and encourage crafting - after all they've made a fair few TPs from me in recipes when I can't be bothered to grind out a specific drop.

You may say that's hypocritical of me to make such a fuss of gear, and to do a little pay-to-win and support store recipes. But to me it's simple, one encourages crafting the other risks making it irrelevant. Also, they made no promises about recipes in the store, they specifically stated on the free-to-play FAQ I read before creating my account that significant game loot was solely the reward of play. That core principal of fairness against pay-to-win was a deciding factor in me spending any money on the store at all.

I simply can't believe the money they'll make off the gear is worth the negative publicity, cancelled subs and, most importantly of all, so many players vowing to go on a TP spending strike.

Ahhhemmm Sapience.. is the following "the official response" to the thread?

@9:30pm Pacific time - I get the weekly Turbine store ad in my email inbox... Along with the quest pack on sale it has the following items listed.

• 20% off Stat Tomes 1-6 and More
• Crafting Ingrediant Packs on Sale
• Scrolls of Crafting Acceleration on Sale
• Store Coupon for Max Moral X5 Coupon Code

Is THAT the official response to the "get the armour out of the store folks"... Turbine is give us CRAFTING stuff to alleviate the so-called lack of L20ish armour (to buy with TP). And tossing in some Stat Tomes too and a moral buff? Is this IT???

Please say someone forgot to pull the plug on the email server.. PLEASE.

Oh wow, I do not envy your job...

The reason for the introduction of armour in the store apparently was a good-will gesture from Turbine to help LOTRO players obtain better gear since:

Originally Posted by Turbine’s Director of Communications

Lower level players are telling us that they are having difficulty obtaining good gear.

So my question is; why did Turbine not:

Introduce better landscape drops from generic, low-level mobs?

Introduce better quest rewards from low-level quests?

Introduce better epic rewards for low-level quests?

The main reason for putting the armour into the store seems to be a way for Turbine getting people to put their credit-cards on file, not actually helping the players.

If I met someone who was about to pay 1800 turbine points for a few pieces of armour, I would gladly craft them a complete set for free, or even give them in-game money so they can purchase items from the Auction House, or even go with them to help out with a few quests.

Originally Posted by myfreezr2

But no. The store became the focus, and the game is now a shadow of what it once was (and could have been).

And you sir, you are spot on!

Originally Posted by lutemaster

The reason for the introduction of armour in the store apparently was a good-will gesture from Turbine to help LOTRO players obtain better gear since:



So my question is; why did Turbine not:

Introduce better landscape drops from generic, low-level mobs?

Introduce better quest rewards from low-level quests?

Introduce better epic rewards for low-level quests?

The main reason for putting the armour into the store seems to be a way for Turbine getting people to put their credit-cards on file, not actually helping the players.

If I met someone who was about to pay 1800 turbine points for a few pieces of armour, I would gladly craft them a complete set for free, or even give them in-game money so they can purchase items from the Auction House, or even go with them to help out with a few quests.

I think that is the heart of the problem. The store is a conflict of interest with the game itself. If the store did not exist, then those solutions you listed to the "problem" they mentioned would be the logical step to fix it. But with the store, now improvements come along with the added questions of, Is this something that we can make profitable? Can we make it store only? And for how much?

So the game itself suffers as a result because instead of just focusing on making a better game that focus now has to be split with driving more store sales. That is why I don't believe f2p will ever be good for games like this. Farmville? Ok. But not this.

Imagine two marble players...both with small groups of marbles that have been playing for years on the same stoop, honing their skills. Each adhere to a set of accepted rules. They're good, but a new, rich kid on the block wants to play. He has a whole bag of marbles and doesn't care losing them...except he doesn't lose them, because the poor kids leays give them back when he loses them. He, however, doesn't accept that rule and keeps the ones he wins. How long before the kids take what they have left and stop playing?

We are led to believe that low level armor won't affect gameplay. It does affect me,mthough, of there are players breezing through content instead of hitting walls at parts of the game where they have to get better. The best solution, apparently, is to "buy their way out of it" according to Turbine. So, we will be left with players that aren't as skilled as others, slowly and surely, the skilled ones will leave and those that are left will be forced to waste time with "I want it NOW" brats who bought their way through hardship. It's not even a hardship at that level, so if you think it will stop there, get your head out of the sand and read some of the comments being offered about Turbine's position about future plans for the store. What will be left is players who want easy content, but then the content will be too easy and players will lose interest and leave.

A set of rules exist for that reason. You can't just do whatever you want - in life, in government, in games... Turbine set a rule, then showed us what those rules really mean. How can they stand there and pretend things like gold-selling are different? I personally would hate to see gold-selling in game and applaud their efforts to squash it, but how is breaking that signed EULA promise different from what they've done? It's their rule, but it's as if a person got invited into a special exclusive club, then heavy-handed a fundamental rules change that altered the clubs purpose, direction, and image, not for the sake of something noble, like equality, or even to make a TON of money that would be used solely for the game. It's to make a little tiny bit more cash to maybe show a tiny post in revenue that will go elsewhere so that a stock price can be inflated.

The cancer you inflict upon yourself today WILL kill you AND be the cause of death, but just because you live through it a little longer, hobbled or diseased as you may, does not mean it wasn't the true agent of your demise. Make the note of it and do not forget what it is so that future projects don't get tainted with your idiocy.

Indeed Sir.
I did read all the posts in this thread in order to have a clear idea of what is going on before I posted a reply.
Kindly do get in trouble and do the same and you may have an idea why so many people are expressing their feelings with such animation.
Cheers

It has been possible for a long time to get the best crafted gear at lvl up to supreme skill by buying ingredient packs with TP. All it took was the appropiate crafting skilllevel.

What's the real big difference? This is much more direct and in-your-face. And the quality of the gear surpasses that of in-game gear.

The latter (it's better statted gear than anything in game at it's level) is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. That is an advantage rather than a convenience and does not agree with what was promised to us.

I offer an alternative way to provide low/mid lvl players access to more gear: make it so that players can state their demand for something at the AH and add a pricequote to that. So crafters can provide what's asked on the playermarket, and players get the gear they want. You can also earn TP with that, by making 'demand slots' on the AH purchasable. I predict better sales than this lowbie armor and better value for TP for the consumer is feasible as well.

Originally Posted by Rainothon

It has been possible for a long time to get the best crafted gear at lvl up to supreme skill by buying ingredient packs with TP. All it took was the appropiate crafting skilllevel.

What's the real big difference? This is much more direct and in-your-face. And the quality of the gear surpasses that of in-game gear.

The latter (it's better statted gear than anything in game at it's level) is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. That is an advantage rather than a convenience and does not agree with what was promised to us.

I offer an alternative way to provide low/mid lvl players access to more gear: make it so that players can state their demand for something at the AH and add a pricequote to that. So crafters can provide what's asked on the playermarket, and players get the gear they want. You can also earn TP with that, by making 'demand slots' on the AH purchasable. I predict better sales than this lowbie armor and better value for TP for the consumer is feasible as well.

Your first point blew me away and completely destroys their argument. I had completely forgotten they allow that. They ALREADY have an IN STORE solution to the "problem" they invented...pretended...sorry, presented. The gear is, in fact, better than gear that can be crafted depending on level so their argument loses even more steam if it were possible. Answer us, Turbine.

Originally Posted by Ardineck

Your first point blew me away and completely destroys their argument. I had completely forgotten they allow that. They ALREADY have an IN STORE solution to the "problem" they invented...pretended...sorry, presented. The gear is, in fact, better than gear that can be crafted depending on level so their argument loses even more steam if it were possible. Answer us, Turbine.

Really? A new level 20 player is supposed to drop whatever crafting profession they chose, become an armourer and buy ingredients so they can create armor for themselves? That's the better solution?

Originally Posted by Llanfair

As Sapience has indicated executives are noting the number of unique participants in this thread, I'm compelled to add my voice to the group of posters here. My husband and I represent three lifetime accounts and one lifetime/founder account, as well as having been instrumental in other family and friends signing up with lifetime accounts. All of us have purchased every expansion, including the RoI Legendary packages. With each iteration of the Store, we have all become more disenchanted with the loss of gameplay methods to achieve goals, and more concerned as content has been removed from the game itself, only to be monetized and implemented within the Store. The ultimate result of this will be a game balanced on what the Store offers, rather than a Store that simply enhances the game.

LotRO is becoming little more than an online WalMart.

Originally Posted by PerinStone

Really? A new level 20 player is supposed to drop whatever crafting profession they chose, become an armourer and buy ingredients so they can create armor for themselves? That's the better solution?

Wouldn't a better solution be for Turbine to add the gear IN GAME rather than the store....and to fix the crafting system??

The only problem with those crafts is that they are bound to your toon and you cannot even share it in your account.