Thread: Champion DPS

Originally Posted by Gondrigue

Is there a better way to swap weapon than having hot keys for weapon swap, and having to hit buttons for (to take an exemple) :
1H, offhand, wild, 2H, brutal,...
Is there a way to configure some macro having your champ automatically swap weapons for specific attacks ?

Thank you

Keyboards or Gamepads like the Logitech G13 and G15, mice like the Razer Naga or software like AutoHotKey are a few examples... there's plenty out there to choose from.

Originally Posted by Moripopori

nuthin to hide... swap to dual wield for wild/swift, use 2h for damage skills... attack dura runes... improved CB (4x moors stuff)... thats all... could even b better, i still lack two special bracers... 600 sumthin critical missin...

why do you use swift with dual wield?

Hey guys, just one question: HOW.... THE... HELL...

I am now playing with my champ alt and cant understand how you get those 1.3k-1.6k single-target numbers on a 7 minute mark.

For testing i had 75 SA one-hand + one-hand sword from Hele Drake, 24k Physical Mastery, 6k or 7k crit(can remeber exactly), 6k morale, so really a glass canon build. 4 red, 2 yellow, 1 blue(power regen). 2x attack duration runes.

I was pushing as far as i can on a single dummy (no AoE skills, no AoE swift strike etc), only single target.

I tried WA,BW,SS to build fervour, then Brutal strikes, clobber during BS animation, Second wind (it is instant, so I dont lose time on it) and again WA,BW... etc. This rotation took me to 900 DPS on a 7 minute mark.

WA,BW,SS and then Remoreless/Clobber spam was almost the same, but i was burning through my power too fast.

I dont have that new ToO set yet, but I dont believe that it makes such a difference. Or does it?

The main thing is I cant understand where can I raise my DPS, I am already pushing this to the cooldown limit.

Could someone please help me?

Brutal + clobber is basically a 2h rotation, try using remorseless and seeking instead and try not to "overbuild" pips since that will loose you dps (i.e. whenever remorseless is available, use it). With Wyrm fang you should be able to at least reach 1.1k sustained minimum but that is also dependant on which legs you have for your weapon

Thanx for help man, but Im still on my 900 DPS no matter what I do

My rotation was:

WA,BW,WA,RS,Clobber-if-have-pip. As soon as I have 4 pip I use Remorseless, then Clobber during animation if have pip. Every second round or so I use Second Wind after RS/Clobber.

May be normally DPS would be a bit higher, because sometimes I miss a rotation because of this stupid dummy putting me out of combat.

But still nowhere near even 1.1k

My legacies are: AoE damage, WA damage, Crit Multi, Remorseless damage, Might, Battle frenzy cd. Might is rank 1, Battle frenzy rank 8, all other and DPS are maxxed out.

Originally Posted by Fralin

Brutal + clobber is basically a 2h rotation, try using remorseless and seeking instead ...

I use both when DWing as Brutal > non-crit Remorseless, dont like relying so much on random damage spikes. Besides, it helps power pool and pips consumption. For seeking blades I would suggest to switch to a 2h weapon if available.

Originally Posted by Chupakabara

Thanx for help man, but Im still on my 900 DPS no matter what I do

My rotation was:

WA,BW,WA,RS,Clobber-if-have-pip. As soon as I have 4 pip I use Remorseless, then Clobber during animation if have pip. Every second round or so I use Second Wind after RS/Clobber.

May be normally DPS would be a bit higher, because sometimes I miss a rotation because of this stupid dummy putting me out of combat.

But still nowhere near even 1.1k

My legacies are: AoE damage, WA damage, Crit Multi, Remorseless damage, Might, Battle frenzy cd. Might is rank 1, Battle frenzy rank 8, all other and DPS are maxxed out.

have you tried swift strike instead of bw? I hate remorseless spam btw, just throwing that out there. Brutal and ferocious with 2handers are the best use of those pips.

Originally Posted by Bohegar

I use both when DWing as Brutal > non-crit Remorseless, dont like relying so much on random damage spikes. Besides, it helps power pool and pips consumption. For seeking blades I would suggest to switch to a 2h weapon if available.

it is true that brutal is better than non-crits on remorse, that deosn't matter much if you have a high crit rate though since you'll get lots of crits on remorse to even it out in a long run. It is true that it bruns moer power though, so if you're short on power it might not be the best idea.


As for what Starkraft wrote, a 2h with seeking+RS, brutal and remorseless is nice, the question was however for dw.

This might be a stupid question but worth asking anyway. You do have flurry traited, right?

Originally Posted by Chupakabara

Hey guys, just one question: HOW.... THE... HELL...

This is the real question i am answering Fralin

not remorseless spamming, not just dual wield nor just 2handing. Macro swapping is the answer to getting the best dps you can. (on top of using a good rotation with good cooldown management of course)

At 21000 Physical Mastery and 2h SA sword I find the baseline damage is 1.1k. If I can get a lovely couple spikes of crits it will pop up to around 1.5k. I know there are a few more pieces I can get to boost might even higher so I don't see those 1.2k-1.3k baseline DPS numbers as implausible. I also hate macro swapping so I could probably even get a hundred more on my baseline if I wanted to do that.

Try a couple of things:

Skip clobber in a DW rotation. It does a lot more damage with a 2H plus your pipgen and longer brutal cooldown gives it a good spot in the rotation. Remorseless has such a short CD, however, that you're better off saving that extra pip for your next remorseless if you're dual wielding. I also use Ferocious whenever it's up, and seeking -> remorseless whenever you can.

Now that I've got my First Age Sword, I've figured, I'd also post my numbers here.

That's me doing 1784 burst DPS after 1:16 min in fight:




This is a screenshot of somewhat sustained DPS (I was only running 3:45 before I went link dead):



Please note that I was in the low 1700s, but then I got disconnected and only realised this a couple of seconds later when my toon wasn't responding anymore and my DPS was dropping. I've probably lost like 50-70 DPS before taking the screen.

All of this was done with no external buffs, only CB and Seeking, based on a Remorseless Spam Rotation, which I can self-sustain for a prolongued period of time with only throwing an odd power pot here and there and using Second Wind every time it's off cooldown.

I could have done better, cause I'm still missing a few pieces (namely the Dwarf Silver Flask, two Bangles of Echoing Battle, the Ring of Uncommon Heroism, one of thos nice 131 DPS Offhands and of course two of those shiny cloak clasps and whatever may drop from Saruman T2 ^^)

To everyone claiming that 2H weapons are clearly in advantage of a DW setup or that macro swapping is the answer to everything: all of this was done using a pure DW setup, no fancy macro swapping included. I also didn't use any CB bonus from the moors set, as my rank just isn't high enough for that.

I guess the ultimate answer to DW vs. 2H is: Use whatever you are more confortable with

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I guess the ultimate answer to DW vs. 2H is: Use whatever you are more confortable with

QFT! Nice numbers

Originally Posted by KhelgarFK

QFT! Nice numbers

Thx Looking at the screenshot, Burst could have been a lot higher ... Just realised that I took that screenshot before ferocious+clobber went through (taking the screen a second later would have added the fercious+clobber dmg and only 1 sec).

Those are sweet numbers if ya banging on a dummy. The 6k morale really isnt plausible imo in a raid situation though. Suppose its fine out pveing doing normal content. Me personally ided rather sit at 1300 dps and 8500 morale and 45%ish mits. However thats just my opinion mind you some people may make the 6k morale work for them.

Originally Posted by Tuck4444

Those are sweet numbers if ya banging on a dummy. The 6k morale really isnt plausible imo in a raid situation though. Suppose its fine out pveing doing normal content. Me personally ided rather sit at 1300 dps and 8500 morale and 45%ish mits. However thats just my opinion mind you some people may make the 6k morale work for them.

I run Orthanc T2 just fine with this setup (just using the axe from the pit instead of the Beleriand Dagger, thus ending up at 6350 morale, but that doesn't really make much of a difference). I even Fervour tanked one of the Giants in Fire & Frost with this setup, running CBR on top most of the time. So, yes, you can make this setup work in a raid, too.

I get the cbr thing i think most champs are doing that.

I have fervour tanked first giant in fire and frost to but not with that low of mits. Im assuming you have low mits because of the armor ya use i could be wrong. I find that dude can crit 4 or 5ks. However using lm and burg debuffs may make the difference in doing that. That is sweet if ya do manage in that morale lvl. I have tested it myself and find that in most boss fights its just to low for the group I run with. I also run off tank on the trash most of the time which can take quite a bit of hard hitting to.

In my mits setup i can still parse around 1400-1500 on the giant in fire and frost with a 2h second age.

Tactical mitigation is around 47%, where abouts does your toon sit? I find if i go for dps I drop to around 30% for a 5-8% gain in dps.

I am also curious what your agility is at? Thats a pretty decent miss rate your running mine tends to be a touch lower sometimes.

Originally Posted by Tuck4444

I get the cbr thing i think most champs are doing that.

I have fervour tanked first giant in fire and frost to but not with that low of mits. Im assuming you have low mits because of the armor ya use i could be wrong. I find that dude can crit 4 or 5ks. However using lm and burg debuffs may make the difference in doing that. That is sweet if ya do manage in that morale lvl. I have tested it myself and find that in most boss fights its just to low for the group I run with. I also run off tank on the trash most of the time which can take quite a bit of hard hitting to.

In my mits setup i can still parse around 1400-1500 on the giant in fire and frost with a 2h second age.

Tactical mitigation is around 47%, where abouts does your toon sit? I find if i go for dps I drop to around 30% for a 5-8% gain in dps.

I am also curious what your agility is at? Thats a pretty decent miss rate your running mine tends to be a touch lower sometimes.

When I Frevour tanked the Giant, I had a dedicated RK healing me, a 10% revealing mark was up and we also had fellowship's heart and stuff running to burn that giant down before the first bubble comes up. Obviously, we also had debuffs on him. For other off-tanking duties or tanking other bosses, I will swap gear depending on the situation. But for DPS, that's pretty much my build.

As for still parsing 1400 - 1500 in Fire and Frost ... in a Raid I will parse way above those 1.700 I've parsed on that dummy, as Reveal Weakness, Telling Mark, Bladebrother, War Cry, Ballad of War, To Arms, Cappy Buffs, Tomes, Buff Food, DP DMG Buff, Hope Tokens and LM/pet debuffs on the mob will all help with DPS.

My agility is 693 if I remember correctly

Originally Posted by Vodomir

When I Frevour tanked the Giant, I had a dedicated RK healing me, a 10% revealing mark was up and we also had fellowship's heart and stuff running to burn that giant down before the first bubble comes up. Obviously, we also had debuffs on him. For other off-tanking duties or tanking other bosses, I will swap gear depending on the situation. But for DPS, that's pretty much my build.

As for still parsing 1400 - 1500 in Fire and Frost ... in a Raid I will parse way above those 1.700 I've parsed on that dummy, as Reveal Weakness, Telling Mark, Bladebrother, War Cry, Ballad of War, To Arms, Cappy Buffs, Tomes, Buff Food, DP DMG Buff, Hope Tokens and LM/pet debuffs on the mob will all help with DPS.

My agility is 693 if I remember correctly

Mind posting a screen shot of your character panel and your sword and rune?

I prefer DW just because it's what I am used to... have been resisting the urge to go 2H despite all the big hits people are posting.

Trying to decide what to put on my first age single hand sword. Have 4 majors and 2 minors.

Crit multiplier
Remorseless

? 1 ) brutal strike, 2) AOE, or 3) wild attack (came with id at rank 5).

Wild attacks a biggy for dps. One that i like in the minors is rend armor every little bit helps imo and you dont have to put points in it. My second age 1h axe has Crit mult, Aoe, Remorseless, Ferocious strikes CD, Rend armor and sudden def. However i use that not nearly as often as i do my 2h so was testing out ferocious cd on it. I should really put wild attack dmg on it.


Hrmm yes in a raid in theory you should parse higher but not really by that much. Remember the trade of your not fighting a dummy that has little armor and no crit protection from what i can tell. I am curious what sort of dps levels you are getting to with a first age in raid setting such as burning the first giant in fire and frost. If im dpsing that not tanking i go higher then 1400-1500 that is my dps while tanking. Realistically im only around about 1600 dps so far on that giant with 2h second ager. However i think lowering my miss chance is the key to raising dps or getting a first ager lol. My miss chance on raid boss can be as high as 10% which is considerable.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I run Orthanc T2 just fine with this setup (just using the axe from the pit instead of the Beleriand Dagger, thus ending up at 6350 morale, but that doesn't really make much of a difference). I even Fervour tanked one of the Giants in Fire & Frost with this setup, running CBR on top most of the time. So, yes, you can make this setup work in a raid, too.

Thats a pretty insane build, you must have a crazy amount of mastery. I can't hit more than 1700 past a minute currently with 5 of the new crit multiplier set, a 1st age 2h, 23k mastery, 8k morale, and 7500 crit.

Originally Posted by nolins12

Thats a pretty insane build, you must have a crazy amount of mastery. I can't hit more than 1700 past a minute currently with 5 of the new crit multiplier set, a 1st age 2h, 23k mastery, 8k morale, and 7500 crit.

I'm currently sitting at 25k mastery and almost 8k crit (also using 2 Attack Duration Runes) with 3150 ICPR (that's key to be able to self-sustain a Remorseless Spam rotation over a long period of time, without having to trait Second Wind). Tradeoff is, of course, my morale, which somewhere between 6177 to 6346 morale, depending on which off-hand I slap on. I'll try to upload a pic of my build, if I get around to it today.

Attack duration runes are amazing its a shame they got rid of the good options. I will check my icpr when i get in game but i think im around 2900 and i run out with out 2nd wind traited using a brutal spam. My rune is focused entirely on power conservation to.

thats on a training dummy in raids powers not normally an issue.

That's impressive. I'll have to work on my build but not sure I'm ready to drop another 1500-2000 morale. I have also been traiting for more tact mit lately on bosses in Orthanc raids which lowers my dps a bit as well. Need to get my first age weapon. Planning to switch from a DW to 2H for a change of pace.

If you guys are testing DPS u should test it on the Ettenmoors training dummy. This one is armored the one in Galtrev isnt.

Originally Posted by Witalik

If you guys are testing DPS u should test it on the Ettenmoors training dummy. This one is armored the one in Galtrev isnt.

Why? I don't see the advantage. As long as everyone is testing on the same kind of dummy, we should all be fine and results are comparative. Besides that, the training dummys in the Moors stand to close together, so there's no good way to apply rend without hitting more than one dummy (thus skewing the results).

Aye that happens to me a fair bit even on the dummys in Galtrev. Gotta be really careful you arent parsing actually attacking two dummys.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Why? I don't see the advantage. As long as everyone is testing on the same kind of dummy, we should all be fine and results are comparative. Besides that, the training dummys in the Moors stand to close together, so there's no good way to apply rend without hitting more than one dummy (thus skewing the results).

Well the DPS u are hitting on those dummys in Galtrev are never something you are gonna hit against Armored mobs ? And if you take the right dummy (Orion) and stand to the right of it your rend wont effect other dummys.

But its pretty insane, i have 25k mastery, 8kcrit , 6.6k morale and i only seem to hit about 1000dps Tops. With CB + perma flurry 4 red and 2 yellow. my damage i do is around 140k+

Originally Posted by Witalik

Well the DPS u are hitting on those dummys in Galtrev are never something you are gonna hit against Armored mobs ? And if you take the right dummy (Orion) and stand to the right of it your rend wont effect other dummys.

But its pretty insane, i have 25k mastery, 8kcrit , 6.6k morale and i only seem to hit about 1000dps Tops. With CB + perma flurry 4 red and 2 yellow. my damage i do is around 140k+

Of all the dummies in the Moors, the one right dummy had to be Orion

I hereby declare all champion DPS tests done on any other dummy than Orion to be heresy. Thou shalt not disrespect the Dev that put the champ back in the champion!

Originally Posted by Witalik

But its pretty insane, i have 25k mastery, 8kcrit , 6.6k morale and i only seem to hit about 1000dps Tops. With CB + perma flurry 4 red and 2 yellow. my damage i do is around 140k+

If you dont hit more than that something's wrong. Could be either traits, but i would wager your rotation is off considering your gear should get you a lot higher than what you say you are. What's your rotation for ST dps?

Someone in one of the threads mentioned they use a 1H to build fervour, then swap to a 2H to cash them in. Assuming you could swap weapons without losing any time, what would the ultimate DPS rotation be and what would the approximate % increase in DPS be?

Wow you guys are doing some crazy dps far more than i am able to do. Im just curious what relics you guys are using on your stone and sword to get such a high crit rating and dps out put.

Also i am curious as to what rotations you use DW and 2h. I normally dps 2h and use a brutal+clobber based rotation and use remorseless or rend if my fervor is full and my cds on BS and clobber are not up yet. I could really the help.

That's 1754 dps burst after 1 minute. No cooldowns or self buffs were used except seeking blades and battle frenzy(if one can even call that a cooldown-40 secs). As traits I used deep strikes and improved rend.Basic rotation would be:BF, then rend, then brutal+clobber, and second wind everytime its up. I used seeking+remorseless only once, so it's a brutal oriented rotation. My crit is at 19% and mastery is at 24k(both of those could be better).

Originally Posted by Treelios

That's 1754 dps burst after 1 minute. No cooldowns or self buffs were used except seeking blades and battle frenzy(if one can even call that a cooldown-40 secs). As traits I used deep strikes and improved rend.Basic rotation would be:BF, then rend, then brutal+clobber, and second wind everytime its up. I used seeking+remorseless only once, so it's a brutal oriented rotation. My crit is at 19% and mastery is at 24k(both of those could be better).

And you are almost out of power, only one minute into the fight oO

Originally Posted by Vodomir

And you are almost out of power, only one minute into the fight oO

Forgot to trait second wind gimme a break=P

A few days ago, I parsed ~1350dps for 12m on a training dummy in Galtrev, using a +45 might food and a 10 min regen food. I was macro swapping between dw (WA and Rend, armor debuff and wa dmg as legacies) and my 2h (SS, BS+CB and SB/RS). I traited second wind and popped it everytime it was off CD. Burned CB when it was off CD. No CBR. I was traited 4r/2y/1b and wearing the 5pc ToO single target set.

I would imagine dps to be about ~50-100 higher if the rend debuff/bleed didn't reset every few seconds on the dummy.

At the time, I was sitting at ~22k phys mastery, ~7500 morale, and ~7k crit. I also didn't have the dwarf silver flask (that dropped last night for me yay).

I still have some work to do, but I'm satisfied with my dps right now, given my current gear setup (I could use more crit and phys mastery, but don't wanna take too much of a hit in the morale category).

No screenshots or anything. I'll do another parse when I get some different gear.

Originally Posted by Edlorthar

A few days ago, I parsed ~1350dps for 12m on a training dummy in Galtrev, using a +45 might food and a 10 min regen food. I was macro swapping between dw (WA and Rend, armor debuff and wa dmg as legacies) and my 2h (SS, BS+CB and SB/RS).

1350 DPS WITH macro swapping? o.O

i got 1350 - 1400 over 10min with only 2H

Macro swapping has never been that useful IMO to get more dps people that say it is really just wanna think all the extra work they do is worth something.

Originally Posted by Treelios

That's 1754 dps burst after 1 minute. No cooldowns or self buffs were used except seeking blades and battle frenzy(if one can even call that a cooldown-40 secs). As traits I used deep strikes and improved rend.Basic rotation would be:BF, then rend, then brutal+clobber, and second wind everytime its up. I used seeking+remorseless only once, so it's a brutal oriented rotation. My crit is at 19% and mastery is at 24k(both of those could be better).

BEAST TREE!!! Anyone that thinks 1 minute parses are useless, most of the t2 orthanc fights are done at 3 minutes or less, and power is covered by lms and capies at that point.

Originally Posted by Edlorthar

I was macro swapping between dw (WA and Rend, armor debuff and wa dmg as legacies) and my 2h (SS, BS+CB and SB/RS).

If im reading this right, you would be better off using rend with the 2hand

Originally Posted by Tuck4444

Macro swapping has never been that useful IMO to get more dps people that say it is really just wanna think all the extra work they do is worth something.

Its brings a little more dps, the big difference i like is more shots at pips via wild

Originally Posted by Starkraft

BEAST TREE!!! Anyone that thinks 1 minute parses are useless, most of the t2 orthanc fights are done at 3 minutes or less, and power is covered by lms and capies at that point.



If im reading this right, you would be better off using rend with the 2hand



Its brings a little more dps, the big difference i like is more shots at pips via wild

I still don't believe Macro Swapping makes all that much of a difference. I parsed higher than him with a pure DW setup and didn't have any power issues (although Second Wind was not traited).