Discussion: Champion DPS

Envoyé par vpram86

Nice parses; That's what I call a real fast run. Just wondering; with 4 burgs what was your crit hit percentage at after the fight?

More detail. 35.7% crit, though another champ in the group had 40% ish but I did better as far as misses went. My dev percentage was pretty low as well. This parse can def be improved upon esp with blade brother + better luck on misses (or more agility) and crits/devs plus no lag (auto attacked for a few seconds of the fight while the server herp derped), I could see 3k+. Now holding aggro against that...thats another issue

Envoyé par swordmonkey

More detail. 35.7% crit, though another champ in the group had 40% ish but I did better as far as misses went. My dev percentage was pretty low as well. This parse can def be improved upon esp with blade brother + better luck on misses (or more agility) and crits/devs plus no lag (auto attacked for a few seconds of the fight while the server herp derped), I could see 3k+. Now holding aggro against that...thats another issue

Nice thanks;

Envoyé par swordmonkey

More detail. 35.7% crit, though another champ in the group had 40% ish but I did better as far as misses went. My dev percentage was pretty low as well. This parse can def be improved upon esp with blade brother + better luck on misses (or more agility) and crits/devs plus no lag (auto attacked for a few seconds of the fight while the server herp derped), I could see 3k+. Now holding aggro against that...thats another issue

Not need for someone else to hold aggro against that. Just let your guardian shieldwall you and you are good to go

Envoyé par Vodomir

Not need for someone else to hold aggro against that. Just let your guardian shieldwall you and you are good to go

yay pleeeease go an try that, report ya experiences rite here then

havent checked dps yet...

Envoyé par Vodomir

Not need for someone else to hold aggro against that. Just let your guardian shieldwall you and you are good to go

we try it for one try. It's devasting

Envoyé par Burio

we try it for one try. It's devasting

Haven't tried this, is there something special happening? Thought one kin did this in all of the "stack burgs to finish before the first acid rise"-crazyness, maybe I misread their post?

Envoyé par Vodomir

Not need for someone else to hold aggro against that. Just let your guardian shieldwall you and you are good to go

I know I want to try that. Though the guard taking that much damage would require a second healer, and we both have to not get diseases or it gets a little sketchy.

My raid leader is going to hate me next week

Envoyé par Vodomir

Haven't tried this, is there something special happening? Thought one kin did this in all of the "stack burgs to finish before the first acid rise"-crazyness, maybe I misread their post?

I've been wanting to try it since before the first kin posted their zerg kill, but I've been unable to convince our raid leaders to give it a shot. I posted my thought about using a CBR Champ tank who is being shield-walled by a Guardian shortly after the first zerg kill, so maybe you're thinking of that. We haven't done it yet, though maybe someone else has?

(I'm still slightly sad that we didn't zerg it first, but oh well - clearly there is a highly intelligent and clever person in the kin that did. )

Yeah. Y'all go ahead and try shieldwalling....and wave goodbye to your guardian. ^^

Envoyé par Deorwyn

Yeah. Y'all go ahead and try shieldwalling....and wave goodbye to your guardian. ^^

Obviously you guys all tried it out by yourself, so it's not as dumb of an idea as you try to make it look like ^^

Envoyé par Deorwyn

Yeah. Y'all go ahead and try shieldwalling....and wave goodbye to your guardian. ^^

Yeah thats my concern, they will take all the hits the champ is taking who won't be getting any BPE and with that build I think my champ has like 4.5k tac mit...yeah. I think the guard could survive until the trash spawns but after that, its probably a group wipe unless you have an rk dedicated to healing the guard. It would most likely be a 50 second epeen measurement hehe.

Envoyé par Vodomir

Obviously you guys all tried it out by yourself, so it's not as dumb of an idea as you try to make it look like ^^

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Shieldwalling is, as others have correctly pointed out, not a very good idea, since champs are taking about two times the damage a good guardian is taking due to no b/p/a and alot lower mitigations. If you don't believe me, just try ist and watch your guardian explode after a few hits. Iorweth is dealing massive damage right at the start of the battle.

I think someone stated some pages ago that a good guardian can hold aggro while champions going all out from the start, making smart ue of force aggro skills and the fact that all skills are reset shortly before the fight starts. Yes I know this is the champ forum so I'm not gonna go off-topic and explain the way I tank Iorweth. I'm just saying that shieldwalling is not needed and will kill your tank quickly.

Envoyé par Vodomir

Obviously you guys all tried it out by yourself, so it's not as dumb of an idea as you try to make it look like ^^

isnt a dumbarses idea at all, its sum extraordinary fun... been there done that...

our guardian was blown to smitherin, he was smashed upon the walls... i had a blast in ts...
was one me fave moments in orthanc, honestly... an he was massively pissed off...

says he: there was no point discussin with ya anyway, can we go on the normal way now?

i pissed meself laughin, swear to christ... havent seen a tank bein bashed that fast in a while

moripopori,

please for the love of God can you type the words as they are written, not as you say them!. I know you are all potatoes and Guinness but its so hard to read what you are trying to say and I want to read what you are typing!

Envoyé par Moripopori

isnt a dumbarses idea at all, its sum extraordinary fun... been there done that...

our guardian was blown to smitherin, he was smashed upon the walls... i had a blast in ts...
was one me fave moments in orthanc, honestly... an he was massively pissed off...

says he: there was no point discussin with ya anyway, can we go on the normal way now?

i pissed meself laughin, swear to christ... havent seen a tank bein bashed that fast in a while

Way to go :-) And don't listen to SoAndSo, I love the way you're typing.

+rep

Envoyé par SoAndSo

moripopori,

please for the love of God can you type the words as they are written, not as you say them!. I know you are all potatoes and Guinness but its so hard to read what you are trying to say and I want to read what you are typing!

Thankfully he is the exception to the rule, most Irish people are quite good at expressing themselves in a coherent manner...

Envoyé par SoAndSo

moripopori,

please for the love of God can you type the words as they are written, not as you say them!. I know you are all potatoes and Guinness but its so hard to read what you are trying to say and I want to read what you are typing!

there for the grace of god go i...


it is not like stupid dude, we have like tried it

our guardian was like soooo destructed... its been like so awesome duuuuuuudes...

and then he said: "dude, guys, there was like no point trying to discuss that with you"!

i was like rolling on the floor laughing...


i think ya do understand me, this a games forum, so it is...
i shall not adapt to a manner of expressing every willy and his uncle prefer...
i simply dont wanne do so... if its that hard to read, fair enough man, skip me posts...

^^ This isn't helping at all. It's just another ######## way of writing. ^^

im not trying to be a jerk, its just really painful to read, and its hard to make your point when Im wincing at your post

Envoyé par SoAndSo

im not trying to be a jerk, its just really painful to read, and its hard to make your point when Im wincing at your post

I just read his posts in Mater's Voice (Cars and Cars2 tow truck) and its all good. I can understand it perfectly and will have a laugh too.

So...burg dps> champ dps?

Envoyé par Feomalo

So...burg dps> champ dps?

Burg DPS is very near to Champ-DPS atm - but the Burg gives 6% Crit & lesser BPE and 10%DMG to all other DDs...

Envoyé par Melmadoc

Burg DPS is very near to Champ-DPS atm - but the Burg gives 6% Crit & lesser BPE and 10%DMG to all other DDs...

I think its more based on the player but yeah obviously stacked burgs are incredibly powerful right now.

Yesterday I was able to maintain 2800 dps for a while without blade brother...until I pulled aggro and blew up every time. Right now my biggest roadblock is the tank holding aggro, however, our guard just got a first age belt so I think that might help for next week. If aggro wasn't as much of an issue I am sure 3k dps for a champ would be feasible. As it is, I wait 10s to start attacking and still parse 2600 (no blade brother), so I think champs are doing just fine compared to burgs hehe.

Envoyé par swordmonkey

I think its more based on the player but yeah obviously stacked burgs are incredibly powerful right now.

Yesterday I was able to maintain 2800 dps for a while without blade brother...until I pulled aggro and blew up every time. Right now my biggest roadblock is the tank holding aggro, however, our guard just got a first age belt so I think that might help for next week. If aggro wasn't as much of an issue I am sure 3k dps for a champ would be feasible. As it is, I wait 10s to start attacking and still parse 2600 (no blade brother), so I think champs are doing just fine compared to burgs hehe.

a Quote from the Burg-Forum

Envoyé par sdf-blarelius

the new set works pretty well

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5...shot00015m.jpg

only 2 Burgs - but Bladebrother

Hmmm. I just reinstalled combat analysis and found that my champ is only doing about 1000 dps on the training dummies.


ScreenShot00141 by dietlbomb, on Flickr

What can I be doing wrong? My rotation is Wild Attack, Blade-wall, Remorseless Strike, repeat. Seeking blades, battle frenzy, and Second Wind whenever they are available. Is it just a bunch of little things? I just need more might, more crit, Orthanc armour, and 1st Age to get up to 1200?

Envoyé par dietlbomb

What can I be doing wrong? My rotation is Wild Attack, Blade-wall, Remorseless Strike, repeat. Seeking blades, battle frenzy, and Second Wind whenever they are available. Is it just a bunch of little things? I just need more might, more crit, Orthanc armour, and 1st Age to get up to 1200?

If with all that you'd only be hitting 1200 you'd be doing something seriously wrong .

Traiting swift blade can help building fervour quicker, getting an extra fervour pip for every target it crits on, nice for ST dps, epic when AOE'ing. It'll also make it benefit from your +aoe damage legacy, another 10% damage on a fervourbuilder you get 'for free'.
What could help aswell is slotting a -2.5% attack duration rune on your weapon like you did on your rune.
Gear-wise, I see you're sitting above 7k morale, which is pretty solid and feels quite comfortable I'm sure, but I'm convinced that for anything but Orthanc T2 anything above 6k morale is enough. The 1k loss in morale, if reinvested correctly with the right picks of jewellery, can result in a LOT of phys mastery and crit.
What follows next is purely subjective, but I think it makes little sense to try and keep up a remorseless-based rotation with a low base critical rating. You'll profit from the big hits more and more the higher your crit rating is, I think 7.5-8k crit's a good indicator of when it really pays off to stop using brutals and start getting into the remorseless big hit awesomeness.

Envoyé par dietlbomb

Hmmm. I just reinstalled combat analysis and found that my champ is only doing about 1000 dps on the training dummies.


ScreenShot00141 by dietlbomb, on Flickr

What can I be doing wrong? My rotation is Wild Attack, Blade-wall, Remorseless Strike, repeat. Seeking blades, battle frenzy, and Second Wind whenever they are available. Is it just a bunch of little things? I just need more might, more crit, Orthanc armour, and 1st Age to get up to 1200?

It's because the author of CA, Evendale, has slipped in some code to make Burglars do more DPS and Champions do less, as he plays a Burg and considers Champs to be nothing but talentless facerollers. He'll deny this, of course.

Envoyé par Lestache

It's because the author of CA, Evendale, has slipped in some code to make Burglars do more DPS and Champions do less, as he plays a Burg and considers Champs to be nothing but talentless facerollers. He'll deny this, of course.

^
Or this.

Envoyé par Fyrexiel

If with all that you'd only be hitting 1200 you'd be doing something seriously wrong .

Traiting swift blade can help building fervour quicker, getting an extra fervour pip for every target it crits on, nice for ST dps, epic when AOE'ing. It'll also make it benefit from your +aoe damage legacy, another 10% damage on a fervourbuilder you get 'for free'.
What could help aswell is slotting a -2.5% attack duration rune on your weapon like you did on your rune.
Gear-wise, I see you're sitting above 7k morale, which is pretty solid and feels quite comfortable I'm sure, but I'm convinced that for anything but Orthanc T2 anything above 6k morale is enough. The 1k loss in morale, if reinvested correctly with the right picks of jewellery, can result in a LOT of phys mastery and crit.
What follows next is purely subjective, but I think it makes little sense to try and keep up a remorseless-based rotation with a low base critical rating. You'll profit from the big hits more and more the higher your crit rating is, I think 7.5-8k crit's a good indicator of when it really pays off to stop using brutals and start getting into the remorseless big hit awesomeness.

Thanks. The little things add up indeed, but they're all a grind . The First Age weapon is out of the question right now since I'm not a big raider, but I'm sure I could win some better jewelry pieces, and make some better relics.

I think that as a dual-wielder I'd need to get the Swift Strike power cost legacy if I were to put that in my rotation.

How important is the Wild Attack legacy for dps? I use that skill a lot.

edit: I tried using Swift Blade and I ran out of power in 20 seconds. This build will definitely require some more refinement.

Envoyé par dietlbomb

Thanks. The little things add up indeed, but they're all a grind . The First Age weapon is out of the question right now since I'm not a big raider, but I'm sure I could win some better jewelry pieces, and make some better relics.

I think that as a dual-wielder I'd need to get the Swift Strike power cost legacy if I were to put that in my rotation.

How important is the Wild Attack legacy for dps? I use that skill a lot.

If WA is one of your prime fervour builders, it'll contribute a LOT to your dps, so it's absolutely worth it getting the legacy. This is why we want at least 4 majors on our weapons as champs, no way to fit the 4 essentials on a 3 majors weapon, alas.
You'll absolutely want swift strike power reduction on your rune if you're struggling with power, yes. I've always had it, maxed, so I don't know how our power consumption is exactly without it, traiting second wind could help though to compensate it a bit?



Sustained-ish DPS. All my gear was breaking down though, I always forget to repair

Edit: Burst DPS - a minute of all out madness - usually ends up anywhere between 1.7k-2k. Gotta love CB.

Unfortunately the SS/SB power legacy is currently broken in that it doesn't work for SB, making traiting Swift to Anger completely unsustainable. Maybe still useable in raid skirms with all the ludicrous power returns we get in there from herbies, but even with good cappies and LM's throwing me power in regular content I find it generally unusable at the moment.

It's a shame as Swift to Anger is one of my favorite traits.

Envoyé par Gylve

Unfortunately the SS/SB power legacy is currently broken in that it doesn't work for SB, making traiting Swift to Anger completely unsustainable. Maybe still useable in raid skirms with all the ludicrous power returns we get in there from herbies, but even with good cappies and LM's throwing me power in regular content I find it generally unusable at the moment.

It's a shame as Swift to Anger is one of my favorite traits.

Do you think that if I switched to a 2-hander then I wouldn't have as much trouble with power? As it is, I don't see how I could use SS/SB in my dual-wield rotation.

I also wonder what the return on investment in various stats would be. I'm hovering around 1000 dps on the training dummies with 1550 might and 5200 crit (~15%). I'd imagine that another 500 might would bump my damage by about 10-15%, but I'm not sure how helpful crit is point-per-point for increasing dps. If I bumped it up to 20%, that would make Remorseless Strike crit 33% more often. (I'll need to do some more combat analysis on this one, I guess.)

Are rotations using Brutal Strikes viable with a dual-wield setup? I'd test it, but I don't have a weapon with the right legacy to compare with my current setup.

I might need to switch to a 2-hander just to be able to have enough time to make better skill choice decisions. Sometimes I'll start with a wild attack when I should have hit Remorseless because I wasn't quick enough to choose the correct skill. Or I guess I need to have better feedback between the pip display and my cerebrum!

By the way, how many of the players in the +1500 dps crowd use dual-wield and how many use 2-handers?

Edit: The thought of playing the legacy lottery to get 4 majors is making my stomach ache. Ugh. Maybe I'll level up a hunter.

Well, I'm not in the 1500-club just yet, parsing about 1300 dual wield on a single dummy. I could probably get there if I made a few changes, like swapping the relics on my 1-h axe for more DPS goodness (currently designed for use in both DPS and tanking), using 5 Delulagos instead of 4 Delulagos/2 Ruithador (I still prefer this second setup, but the extra finesse I'm getting with that gear is probably a lot less helpful for dummy parses than the 10% strikes crit multi from the 5-piece), getting a 1st age, using the Earring of Wrath Unleashed instead of the Great River might/morale/crit/mastery one, getting a 1st age and getting a 1st age. I also have no stat tomes and don't really bother retraiting for maximum single-target DPS (I'd get more out of traiting Deep Strikes than Ardent Rage probably).

No, I don't think brutal is worth using in a 1h setup. Maybe it is if your crit is really, really low, but even then the long CD and long animation makes its use hard to justify. I also use ferocious whenever it's up and I've got 5 pips as it hits about as hard 1h as brutal does 2h (people complaining about ferocious really aren't seeing that it shines DW a lot brighter than it does 2h), and puts out more damage on average than remorseless.

I actually have more power issues 2H than dual wield. BW is cheaper power-wise than Swift (even if the Swift power legacy worked correctly), plus, even though remorseless costs more power than brutal, it costs less than brutal+clobber.

Envoyé par dietlbomb

By the way, how many of the players in the +1500 dps crowd use dual-wield and how many use 2-handers?

Most who are hitting very high numbers (1600-1900) are dual wielders, mainly because we can get such high crit chances with all our amazing crit mag bonuses that remorseless's crits are amazing. I'd be interested to see more parses for 5-8 minute sustained with dual wield champs. They have to build for high icpr and probably second wind.

Envoyé par swordmonkey

I think its more based on the player but yeah obviously stacked burgs are incredibly powerful right now.

Yesterday I was able to maintain 2800 dps for a while without blade brother...until I pulled aggro and blew up every time. Right now my biggest roadblock is the tank holding aggro, however, our guard just got a first age belt so I think that might help for next week. If aggro wasn't as much of an issue I am sure 3k dps for a champ would be feasible. As it is, I wait 10s to start attacking and still parse 2600 (no blade brother), so I think champs are doing just fine compared to burgs hehe.

Surely you Ebb?

Finally made some good figures today ! I really went for it



My personal record this far !

Btw this is with a second age 2h

Envoyé par Fyrexiel

If WA is one of your prime fervour builders, it'll contribute a LOT to your dps, so it's absolutely worth it getting the legacy. This is why we want at least 4 majors on our weapons as champs, no way to fit the 4 essentials on a 3 majors weapon, alas.

I was just looking at the legacies and the costs to max them out. Supposing I got a 2nd age sword with AoE damage, Crit Damage Multiplier, Remorseless Strike Damage, and Wild Attack Damage, I wouldn't have many points left to spend on other legacies. What Minor legacies would you recommend? I found I could get -17 seconds off Battle Frenzy, so that one seems ok.

Envoyé par dietlbomb

I was just looking at the legacies and the costs to max them out. Supposing I got a 2nd age sword with AoE damage, Crit Damage Multiplier, Remorseless Strike Damage, and Wild Attack Damage, I wouldn't have many points left to spend on other legacies. What Minor legacies would you recommend? I found I could get -17 seconds off Battle Frenzy, so that one seems ok.

Battle Frenzy's a solid way to go yeah, chuck a might legacy on the last one I'd say, doesn't need any points and still gives 330 mastery. I myself had enough points to max sudden defence cooldown, but that's on a FA. Not sure what your options are on a 2A.

Envoyé par Fyrexiel

Battle Frenzy's a solid way to go yeah, chuck a might legacy on the last one I'd say, doesn't need any points and still gives 330 mastery. I myself had enough points to max sudden defence cooldown, but that's on a FA. Not sure what your options are on a 2A.

According to LI Planner, I could max the 4 dps legacies and get 77 seconds off of Sudden Defense Cooldown.

Edit: On my current weapon, I have AoE Damage, Remorseless Strike Damage, Crit Multiplier, and Sudden Defense CD maxed. I had only enough points left to add 1 rank to 2 stat legacies.

Envoyé par Fyrexiel

Battle Frenzy's a solid way to go yeah, chuck a might legacy on the last one I'd say, doesn't need any points and still gives 330 mastery. I myself had enough points to max sudden defence cooldown, but that's on a FA. Not sure what your options are on a 2A.

My 2nd Age had four majors (Remorseless, AoE, Crit, and WA) and I was able to max all four plus throw a few points into BF cooldown and Might - not enough to max either, but enough to make a respectable increase in each, iirc.