Thread: Champion DPS

Hello fellow champions. I was curious about what you other champs were able to pull off in terms of both sustained- (5 min+) and burst- (1min-) dps.
To test it, I tried several different specs, both dual-wield and two handed and I ended up with the following for maximum damage (at least it works pretty well for me):
Traits:
4 Red (self-explanatory)
2 Yellow (swift blade, blade-wall)
1 Blue (second wind)

Equip:
I went all-out-dps, so I geared soley for might and crit, ending up with a whopping 5.8k morale, 6k crit and about 24k phys. mastery (yeah, I know, should be a lot higher with that kind of morale, but my equip isn't the best).
I find it also important to note that I use 2 attack duration runes.

The weapon I used was my level 75 second age two-hander (yes, after hours of trying it turned out to deal more dps than dual wielding, allthough I have pretty decent one-handed weapons as well).


Anyways, here are the results:
My burst dps (parsed for about 1 minute) was almost exaclty at 2000.



My sustained dps (parsed for about 8 minutes) ended up at about 1620, allthough you could say it was a bit higher, since the parser continues to tick down after you disengage the dummy.





I did not use scrolls, buff food or anything else during any of the tests (allthough I had to take 2 power potions in the 8 minute parse and I still had a hope-token from the Draigoch-run earlier).
Also, I was completely alone, unbuffed and no one else hit the dummy.

Please do not view this as a kind of e-peen thread. I am very eager to see what other (and of course better geared) champs are able to pull off and especially what setups they use.

Also, I would love to see how other classes perform at the dummies in terms of dps, to see where champs are at these days.


Sincerely

Finothor of Morthond

My single-target DPS is a little lower than that since I don't build quite that glass cannon-y. It goes through the roof during AoE sessions, though.

I mostly get 1,4k to 1,5k DPS within 10mins - but there are even Runs with 1,3k oder 1,6k - mostly because of which skills get how many Dev-Crits...

Sorry for my bad englisch :P

What is your rotation?

I know it's been done before, but don't know where to look. Would someone please explain to me in baby language how to parse like that - and will it slow my computer down?

Just go to the lotrointerface page for the plugin (link). There's a great guide there on how to set it up and use it.

Thanks, will do

Would you share your skill rotation with us? 2000 seems pretty high, I'm only getting around 1500ish, TOPS, using a brutal-focused rotation. 26k phys mastery, 5.5k crit.

Originally Posted by Fyrexiel

Would you share your skill rotation with us? 2000 seems pretty high, I'm only getting around 1500ish, TOPS, using a brutal-focused rotation. 26k phys mastery, 5.5k crit.

I think 2k are possible with a lot of Dev-Crit-Luck with Remorseless strike...

He only parsed 2mins, and with al bit of luck it's possible...

Actually, my crit luck wasn't that high, I only had 17% crit and 6% devastates.
It is key to throw all your cooldowns together to max out your dps.

For example, if Seeking Blade is off CD, but CB is still on a 10-20 second CD, I will wait the 20 seconds to make remorseless hit even harder. Also, you need to be very cautious with your fervor generation and consumption. Sometimes, for example if CB is up and you get a crit with swift strike, you will have 4 fervor but brutal (or clobber) is still on cd, so you don't want to sit there, waiting for brutals to come off CD.
In those situation, I like to hit rend real quick, it only costs 2 fervor and with maxed out legacies it deals a decent amount of damage as well (though unfortunately on the dummies the dot gets resetted after about 10 seconds).
Just never wait or do nothing, that will drop your dps immensely.

Actually, as far as my rotation goes, I did not use wild attack. If you use the +area damage legacy, blade wall deals about as much damage as wild attack, so my fervor builders were blade wall and swift blade. If you stand in the right place, you can hit two dummies with those 2 skills, and especially swift blade generates huge amounts of fervor.
At 4 fervor, if I have battle frenzy or a fervor pot, I will use remorseless followed by battle frenzy and then brutal+clobber, if I have nothing up I will just use brutals.

Originally Posted by Finothir

If you stand in the right place, you can hit two dummies with those 2 skills, and especially swift blade generates huge amounts of fervor.

Then your parses count for nothing as hitting multiple targets at once will obviously result in higher DPS than hitting only one target. Try to focus on one dummy for comparative results. And I was wondering why one would slot swift blade for a Single Target DPS build ^^

Originally Posted by Vodomir

And I was wondering why one would slot swift blade for a Single Target DPS build ^^

If you can handle the power cost, swift strike/blade should be your other fervor builder next to wild attack. (for a 2H)
With the legacy you at least get the fervor bonus from any crits that happen. And swift strike ignores weapon attack speed so it actually finishes faster than WA or BW.

If some other champ wants to dispute this I'd be okay with that. My dps meter agrees with me compared to WA/BW or WA/WA, but i've never done a CA parse, which would be a much better indicator.

But yeah... don't use blade wall to hit multiple target dummies. AOE dps is pretty tough to measure since it increases with the number of targets. Single target is arguably more important since you can't aoe most raid or instance bosses.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Then your parses count for nothing as hitting multiple targets at once will obviously result in higher DPS than hitting only one target. Try to focus on one dummy for comparative results. And I was wondering why one would slot swift blade for a Single Target DPS build ^^

Yeah this. I was finding it very weird as I couldnt get past 1.1k DPS without using continuous blood rage(granted, I am still lacking alot of gear to be at my right place in terms of might and crit...well, maybe I could reach 1.1k, buuut it'd be tedious).

If you want to see how high your DPS can be, its simple: go do T1 size duo Ford skirmish (more monsters since you have 2 NPCS) and parse there. you can go higher than 3k there. However, for single target dps, attack only 1 target ^^

Originally Posted by figa

However, for single target dps, attack only 1 target ^^

I got 1,4k DPS while parsing 10mins - even don't know that you couldn't use 2 Dummies for higher DPS

Well, you have to admit, parsing with multiple dummies does look better on paper than 1-1.1k dps (which is what a standard champ can do, sadly there's also those that even today cannot do more than 500). End geared you might be looking at 1.4-1.6k

I go ~2,300 dps over these dummies with no buff, no pot, for a one minute run.

A single dummy or multiple dummies? That's kind of the point here, one target or multiple ones (with multiple having higher dps) also for a 1 minute run it's all about burst dps, to get a better reading (unless you specifically ask for burst dps) you should go at it for ~5mins or so

On a single dummy without any foods, buffs and CB and such I got roughly 1,1-1,5k although I actually prefer parsing on real stuff, the cows and drakes in the moors are excellent for that. Funnily enough I got slightly higher results on my DW (they are slightly different though, 2h doesnt have wild attack legacy and the ending setting, also doesnt have the crit gem, instead it has the platinum morale setting and a vitality crit gem).

Originally Posted by Fralin

A single dummy or multiple dummies? That's kind of the point here, one target or multiple ones (with multiple having higher dps) also for a 1 minute run it's all about burst dps, to get a better reading (unless you specifically ask for burst dps) you should go at it for ~5mins or so

I was referring to the first experiment of the opening post (hit 2 dummies with blade wall and swift strike + aoe during one minute)
I also tryied stricly 1 dummy (even rend touched 1 dummy) for sustained dps ~7min, I get 1,3k.
By the way, I use dual wielding, could be interrested to know if you guys are using DW or 2H... I know, endless debate..., but sill ;-)

I parsed no less than 1300 for several 5 minute tests. That is with no rend, no battle frenzy, no seeking blades, controlled burn, no continuous blood rage, and not hitting extra targets to pad my numbers. Pretty much didn't use anything that helps, so in real situation tests, it is higher.

My rotation only consisted of Wild, Brutal, Clobber, Ferocious, and Swift Blade.

And i'm not done with my build. Need to change out relics on my rune. Need to get a 1 hand weapon that is actually good to swap to for Wild, and then its relics. I would like to change out most of my jewelry too.

It took me a while to get used to including clobber to my skill rotation...
I did the same experiments as Stardyan described, and I got one run at 1,250 and the other one at 1,340. Although, I'm not enjoying first age yet, nor the fix5 Orthanc bonus, and my sword is AOE oriented (i got +50% critical, relentless bonus legacies and aoe bonus as major legs only).
I used swift + wild, then relentless (+ clobber is up) or ferocious (+ clobber if up). If I don't end up with 4 or 5 fervor pips after swift + wild, I do a wall blade.
Thanks for the clobber tip !

Originally Posted by Finothir

If you stand in the right place, you can hit two dummies with those 2 skills, and especially swift blade generates huge amounts of fervor.

lol way to negate the basis of this whole test. If you're going to compare AOE dps on 2 targets then state that... don't make it sound like a single target test. A champ can go over 5000 dps on an AOE pull, that's just a function of how many targets are there.

Anyway, I tested my single target dps on those dummies. Was actually trying to test out different rotations. With remorseless spam it was around 1300-1400. With brutal spam it was about 1400-1450. With brutal + ferocious it was 1400-1500. This was all with a dual wield set up, first age (has brutal legacy but not remorseless), and only self buffs. Added a cappy and burg into the group later, dps increased by over 1000... it was fun

Originally Posted by Comma44

lol way to negate the basis of this whole test. If you're going to compare AOE dps on 2 targets then state that... don't make it sound like a single target test. A champ can go over 5000 dps on an AOE pull, that's just a function of how many targets are there.

Anyway, I tested my single target dps on those dummies. Was actually trying to test out different rotations. With remorseless spam it was around 1300-1400. With brutal spam it was about 1400-1450. With brutal + ferocious it was 1400-1500. This was all with a dual wield set up, first age (has brutal legacy but not remorseless), and only self buffs. Added a cappy and burg into the group later, dps increased by over 1000... it was fun

mind showing your build?

Noob question here...
Iis there a tool to statiscally measure dps or the dps numbers u are talking about derive from obsertvation only (combat log maybe)?

I am asking this because my hit damage varies alot depending on skill used


I normally trait 3 reds 1 blue 3 yellows, sometimes i switch 1 yellow for one of the others. Unbuffed my PhyM is normally 18k-19k and crits are around 5.5 I dont put my morale below 7k. Lately i have been playing with virtues to increase mittigations and resistance as well.

Originally Posted by Starkraft

mind showing your build?

This is my dps build, subtract 1500 from crit due to cappy buff:

Originally Posted by VentoPT

Noob question here...
Iis there a tool to statiscally measure dps or the dps numbers u are talking about derive from obsertvation only (combat log maybe)?

I am asking this because my hit damage varies alot depending on skill used


I normally trait 3 reds 1 blue 3 yellows, sometimes i switch 1 yellow for one of the others. Unbuffed my PhyM is normally 18k-19k and crits are around 5.5 I dont put my morale below 7k. Lately i have been playing with virtues to increase mittigations and resistance as well.

Combatanalysis is a light plugin that measures your dps and breaks it donw to numbers.

Originally Posted by Fralin

Combatanalysis is a light plugin that measures your dps and breaks it donw to numbers.

Thank you Fralin I will try it.

I cap out at about 1100 using similar rotations; then again I don't even have my dragonscale cloak yet.

Originally Posted by Starkraft

I parsed no less than 1300 for several 5 minute tests. That is with no rend, no battle frenzy, no seeking blades, controlled burn, no continuous blood rage, and not hitting extra targets to pad my numbers. Pretty much didn't use anything that helps, so in real situation tests, it is higher.

My rotation only consisted of Wild, Brutal, Clobber, Ferocious, and Swift Blade.

And i'm not done with my build. Need to change out relics on my rune. Need to get a 1 hand weapon that is actually good to swap to for Wild, and then its relics. I would like to change out most of my jewelry too.

Very nice sword! I'm curious why you would rather have ferocious cd over aoe or wild though?

after a minute in fight 1731... no buffs... just battle frenzy and seekin...

Parsing for 1 minute would still be in the class of burst. To get a reliable reading for sustained dps you need to cap out (i.e. fight until dps variation slows down), this is usually anywhere between 5-15 mins. If you, however, only is interested in your burst dps 1 min seems about right in terms of length of testing session.
Usually when people talk about dps what they are specifically talking about is sustained dps which requires a longer parsing time. The difference is that the longer time you fight the less crits and devs will play into the actual number, mind you, they are still useful but getting fivwe lucky hits on 8k in under a minute will affect the result more than getting the same hits during a 5 minute session.

In short: If people ask for dps, they want to know sustained dps, not burst

Just curiosity: has it ever been decided whether dual-wield or 2hander is better for flat dps? It one better for aoe and one for single target? All I know is that DW is better for tanking.

I have made some tests recently with my twohanded axe in comparison to my onehanded axe and Laechathol. The twohanded axe has crit multi, brutal strikes, wild attack, sprint, SD and rend. The onehander has crit, wild attack, SD, battle frenzy, ferocious strikes cd and AoE. The relics are roughly the same (crit and -AD). Both LIs are Second Age.
I managed to reach about 1120 sustained dps with the twohander and nearly 1200 with both onehanders on a single target. I guess dual wield is besser because Laechathol has lots of good dps stats which a twohander never can achieve right now. In addition to that Laechathol has more dps than a SA onehanded axe. This seems to be enough for dual-wielding to deal more ST-damage. Wether this is still the case with FA weapons I cannot say because I do not know of any offhand with a dps value better than Laechathol. So a FA twohander might be a bit better than dual wielding.
But for AoE dual wielding outshines the twohander by a lot.
I assumed that dual wielding has an insane power consumption due to remorseless spamming but ferocious strikes deal damage similar to a twohander and have a nice power cost. So with FS a dual wielding champion can deal a bit more damage than with a twohander and has a low power consumption. And you don't have to switch weapons for AoEing .

Originally Posted by AmazingX

Just curiosity: has it ever been decided whether dual-wield or 2hander is better for flat dps? It one better for aoe and one for single target? All I know is that DW is better for tanking.

I would guess it depends on your legacies.
I've just made a 2H sword with brutal legacy, and I've got a 1H sword with remorseless legacy.
Spamming brutal with my 2H gives me a mean dps of ~1,340 one 3 runs of 3mins, and spamming remorseless with my one handed gives me a mean about 100 less dps - didn't use seeking blade and controlled burn for easy replicability. 3mins is probably too short for talking about sustained dps, but I'm convinced 2H is better here.

I would say that brutal stays triple hit with 2H, so nice to spamm with 2H. In addition, if you include clobber in your dps rotation, it dields way more damage with a 2H weapon, and isn't affected by attack durations.

I didn't try to parse numbers with aoe experiments, but I would guess DW is better since (except rend), all skills involve both weapons.

Originally Posted by Moripopori

after a minute in fight 1731... no buffs... just battle frenzy and seekin...

Great burst dps ! You did achieve 24.1% critical and 11.1% dev, so unless your critical hit chance actually achieve such impressive level, it's a lucky one ;-)

Originally Posted by Gondrigue

Great burst dps ! You did achieve 24.1% critical and 11.1% dev, so unless your critical hit chance actually achieve such impressive level, it's a lucky one ;-)

havent used CB tho... an burst is very important, nevermind boss fights but all the trash ya bash, its all bout burst...

heres a 6 mins sumthin one, used CB an TH this time...

Originally Posted by Moripopori

havent used CB tho... an burst is very important, nevermind boss fights but all the trash ya bash, its all bout burst...

heres a 6 mins sumthin one, used CB an TH this time...

OK, these are really high numbers here. Is there some secret in your rotation of skills or relics you might share with us ?

Originally Posted by mhanc911

Very nice sword! I'm curious why you would rather have ferocious cd over aoe or wild though?

because i macro swap for wild and all aoe except rend.

Originally Posted by Gondrigue

OK, these are really high numbers here. Is there some secret in your rotation of skills or relics you might share with us ?

nuthin to hide... swap to dual wield for wild/swift, use 2h for damage skills... attack dura runes... improved CB (4x moors stuff)... thats all... could even b better, i still lack two special bracers... 600 sumthin critical missin...

Is there a better way to swap weapon than having hot keys for weapon swap, and having to hit buttons for (to take an exemple) :
1H, offhand, wild, 2H, brutal,...
Is there a way to configure some macro having your champ automatically swap weapons for specific attacks ?

Thank you