Thema: Guide for PUG [Tower of Orthanc]

Zitat von RJFerret

Zitat von Crell_1

Originally I had groups doing it with about half 2a half 3a.. The more 3As, the more on top of your game people need to be, less time running around grabbing stuff, more time killing it

Ah, thanks for that insight, and suggests a strategy change that fits with one we were already planning. :-)

And our first attempt with the new strategy...successful! :-) (Just a couple wipes from first-timers and lag issues.)



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Our static group was finally able put in some serious time with Saruman T1 on Monday night. We’ve been working on getting the other wings down pat and last Thursday we did a Draigoch and clear to Saruman in about 3 hours, no wipes but a few breaks. This was our first real attempt at Sarumadness.

After a few early phase wipes while we got accustomed, got to phase 5 and had 3-4 tries at it. The plan is two champs on Shadows, two captains on Frosts, one tank on Venoms, and one tank on Fire & Storms. Yeah….that was the plan. What happened is the tanks had difficulty picking their guys up and mayhem showed up. They were trying to single target agro and there’s just not enough time before our healers get toasted.

Is there a preferred way to get aggro quick on Fire and Storms? I was thinking of having our main tank just challenge as much as she can and have the champs and off tank pull away as designated.

1 guard standing about halfway between lightning ring and frost ring can get all 4 of those sarumen with Challenge (assuming they have either the trait or belt legacy to increase targets to more than 3) , another guard over by fire/venom can get all 4 of those. We then have the captains grab a venom and lightning guy and move them over to the other guard, so that 1 each guard has 1 venom (lots of unremovable dots), 1 lightning (big distributed blast) and the 2 each of either fire or frost (mostly harmless). Also we CC 1 shadow (with frost ring to remove adaptation) and use the offensive ring stuff on the other shadow to burn it fast, since people are terrible at interrupting them. Once the first shadow guy is down it gets a lot simpler. If your tanks are taking too much damage you can have a captain stand with them to help take the distributed lightning blast (it hits me for about 4k as the only target). I also usually have agro on the middle saruman from p3 onwards just on principle, but it doesn't seem to make any kind of difference.

How we do Fire and Ice Tier 2:

Trash is easy, tank trolls away from everyone, sometimes cc one then the other once CC is down on first, blow up men adds.

Boss fight we have a guard tank both giants, everyone but heals/hunters/rk (squishies) stand directly behind the 2 giants, one tank just sits and waits for adds, when adds are up they aggro all adds and kite, while the champs taunte one into melee gorup to dps down untill they are all dead, rinse and repeat. We use 2 mini and one RK, RK healing main tank.

How we do Saruman T1,

We just have a guard tank everything, an OP guard DPS'n then running out and engaging one off main guard till they are all dead. Main tank just kites everything while all else kills one at a time, super easy strat, if you find an adequet tank.

Making tanks kite makes me cry, make a warden do it.

Not a strategy as such, but a really good advice for anyone going into Orthanc with a random group of players, is to install plugins like Buffbars or Palantir since they can be of great help when it's time to remove a wound, disease or any of the sort.

Zitat von Iracham

1 guard standing about halfway between.....

Thanks for the advice. We had 3 tries in phase 5 on Monday night and followed your tanking suggestion. Had one shadow down on our last attempt, but things went south after that due to a few reasons...the number one being execution.

This seems to us like a very viable way to do this, and confident we'll get it soon.

Maybe its different on T1, but I'm the only tank on T2 lighting for my kin. You don't wipe with T10 debuff, move away at 9 to about 1.5 squares, take the hit (only 4k - 5k) and walk back in, boss doesn't move and you can continue tanking.

As you run in pop WH + pledge, they reset when boss activates. Once you reach T7 debuff pop pledge again and for the first 50% of his hp you only have to move once or twice.

It's also less tricky then swapping aggro, as a hunter may sneak inbetween the tanks and take aggro.

Well, I have been in a group that beat acid once (tier 1, of course), but I have no idea how we did it. Every subsequent group I join for this wing is unable to defeat the boss. We can never defeat the adds quickly enough without taking way too much damage. What is the best strategy for handling the adds in the boss fight? We've tried cc on the trolls, but it's impossible to cc them before they engage the group. And we have tried using 2 tanks to intercept the trolls but then we don't do enough damage to the trolls before the acid arrives, and the champion keeps getting killed by the other adds. I'm scratching my head on this one.

The only thing I can think of (except incredibly bad DPS classes... you have 50 seconds to kill 6 mobs) is CC on the trolls... are you removing their stacking -20% inc damage buffs?

Zitat von Tarenius

The only thing I can think of (except incredibly bad DPS classes... you have 50 seconds to kill 6 mobs) is CC on the trolls... are you removing their stacking -20% inc damage buffs?

I don't know. Do the trolls have that buff when they show up or do they build it up over time? Our biggest trouble is when the adds appear and we frantically try to get them under control, usually one troll slips through and whacks someone.

How do most groups handle this moment? Is CC the best way? I have found that it is tough to target the trolls before they are on top of the group. Or do some groups try to use a tank or two to move the trolls around?

How much dps do the adds do? I know they can do some big damage to squishies, but would it be possible for 1 or 2 tanks to take all their damage? If so, what's the best way for the tanks to grab all the adds? I'm not sure how, since the adds come from every corner of the room. Now I don't play a tank, but it couldn't hurt to hear more strategies.

I apologize if these questions seem stupid, but I am still pretty new to the raiding game.

edit 2: And I really would appreciate any advice. I want to maximize our chance at success. I only have a rare chance every other week to attempt the various wings in this dungeon. It is really tough to put together a PUG for the acid wing: the raid locks lock out too many people from a PUG, and it is too tough for the mediocre rewards it offers repeat customers (19 seals! What seasoned raider would join a 2 hour wipefest for that?).

Have a couple offtanks (cappy or champ) break off boss dps early to go right and left. Then when adds spawn they'll be right by the trolls and can turn them. Turned trolls = no frontal aoe on the raid = easy kills. If T1 you can just have 1 offtank break right and the tank on the boss aoe the second troll and turn him from the raid. All you need to do is avoid frontal aoe's and it is easy mode. You can also throw in a couple stuns on the trolls to get rid of their buff.

Zitat von Amlost

Have a couple offtanks (cappy or champ) break off boss dps early to go right and left. Then when adds spawn they'll be right by the trolls and can turn them. Turned trolls = no frontal aoe on the raid = easy kills. If T1 you can just have 1 offtank break right and the tank on the boss aoe the second troll and turn him from the raid. All you need to do is avoid frontal aoe's and it is easy mode. You can also throw in a couple stuns on the trolls to get rid of their buff.

Thanks. I guess our problem is lack of practice.

I had tried this strategy once with my captain, but I found it really tough to select the troll and taunt him before he made it over to the group. Should I have traited for AoE threat, instead? This might make the add gathering a little easier.

The last time I was in here we had 2 guardians, so we had them gather the 2 trolls, but the rest of the adds still came at the group and murdered one of the healers or lore-masters. It's still possible for the guardians to get all the adds near where the trolls spawn? We might not have had the timing down.

Is it possible we were all standing in the wrong place? What is the best location to fight the boss?

Also, is there a good way to move the boss around without him hitting the raid with a big AoE attack?

We fight right where the boss starts out, facing the door that's behind him (direction Saruman was), the Troll that spawns to the right of that a burg mezzes as it's running forward.

Since the boss is otherwise occupied when adds are out, main tank grabs adds, group positions behind other troll, squishies away further, but not so far away the tanks can't pull stuff with AoE threat.

We don't target the dragonets, letting them fall to AoE. We do Avancs and stuff first, then Troll that's up, then Troll that was mezzed. Making sure everyone knows how important it is to DPS the same target helps here I've found.

If that mezzed troll doesn't fall before the acid rise, DoTs and a few more hits can take it out during the acid (you don't need to stop fighting while running/jumping). If the troll isn't dropping really fast and you see a bunch of matching icons on it's debuffs, call out for CC which will wipe those away and it'll drop quick.

If for some reason you still have a troll up when the boss becomes active again, finish it off quick and you'll have time to get back on the boss and win. I've seen runs where someone falls to acid lag fairly early complete with time to spare, despite not dropping the second troll until after acid lowers.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

When adds spawn, they usually have aggro on a healer due to HoT's. If everyone just piles up on the rock in the middle of the room, all adds will run there. Have CC classes stun/mez etc. the trolls just to remove the buffs, and blender everything down. Champs will usually pull aggro on most stuff during this part, so I like to keep 5 pips ready at the end of a boss DPS phase so I can pop sudden defense right when the adds come because I know I'm going to get aggro quick.

I've found this brute force method more effective than trying to selectively keep trolls CC'd, and following RAT's through (people like to go dragonets -> avancs -> trolls) because you lose so much DPS futzing around with picking the right targets, trying to avoid AoE hitting trolls, etc.