just wondering? are turbine already begining to squeeze the last out of us? people keep talking about the poor quality of updates and the shortening of the epic game? if feels as if they are begining to rush towards the end abit more now but what do other people think? will they be making enough to continue with the game ect?
considering how the license still has years on it it's pretty darn safe to say lotro will be around for awhile still. plus with the Hobbit movies coming out, it would be silly for them not to capitalise on that.
Do everyone a favor and read your tooltips.
\\ Galidin \\ Alderid \\ Durglar \\ Rawlor \\
...::: Defenders of the Lost Light - Brandywine :::...
A valid question for sure, but I'm not sure the game forums are the best place to take a temperature reading of the game as a whole. I believe these forums represent the very vocal minority, not the majority of players in the game. I am curious as to why you say if feels like Turbine is "rushing towards the end?"
Despite what a certain proportion of the playerbase would like you to believe, the game is not dying. Far from it.
As for the 'shortening of the Epic game', RoI released with the largest Epic Book to date. If you're referring to the latest Book however, I would point out that it probably feels short because there's no absurd amount of travelling between each chapter like there was in Volume 1.
So, no Turbine will not abandon this game for a long time, certainly not until the lore-lease runs out.
Considering The Hobbit movies are coming soon, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bump in player population. Lots of players have come here from the LotR movie fanbase.
"When"? The only way LotRO will be abandoned is if playership falls so low that Turbine is forced to combine servers multiple times until only a few are left, and the combined resource overhead and licensing fees are no longer tenable against revenues. All stop.
I do not believe for a second that LOTRO is coming to an end any time soon with the f2p system and yes 'The Hobbit' will renew interest in Tolkien for a few years.
I do believe though that after the latest updates, expansions and changes made in the game play a great many old timers of SoA will quit, some permanently, some for a while and some dropping in from time to time.
Now that the game has presumably recovered any initial development costs and then some, it doesn't take a ton of resources to maintain the game. I would expect that if the game gets cancelled before 2017, it'll be a slow bleed - less people spend money -> less money to develop new content -> less people playing and spending money. Me? I think that they'll take us to mordor, I really do.
Wow, an interesting thought. I had just begun to think about the "why's and wherefore's" of Turbine's LOTRO business timeline too.
It seems they are just milking the cow now but I don't think they will cancel anything until their contract runs out or the entire population of 50% of the servers goes AWOL.
There will be many folks who will try hard to keep it running as long as possible. The pre-Warner Crew we know so well will do everything they can to keep LOTRO afloat. Many servers have dedicated populations and player run events. There is still a lot to be said about questing and much fun for the money here.
We all know about the shortcomings. Yes, the forums are a very small minority of the player base. Yes those here tend to have "strong opinions" on things too. But it's still a valid gauge of what players are thinking.
In the past when people asked if the game was folding, it was because they were having so much fun they wanted to be sure the game would be here for the long haul. Perhaps now when they ask, it's more about the "durability" of the game.
One thing to consider is that with all the things that are "right" and all the things that are "not so good", sometimes it's easier if you just pull the plug and start over. Lots of games have gone that route. LOTRO might be one of them. Even so that might not be an "abandonment" but a "re-focus".
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! <Your winnings, sir.>
[sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
Wait until January and you'll find out what the plans are, since Turbine will announce their 2012 schedule then.
A very funny comment!
Well in the "past" their plans and announcements regarding the game have come to little. There are those here from the beginning who remember all the "promises" made and broken. Turbine would never have kept faith with the elves or dwarves and Sauron certainly wouldn't trust anything they "promised".
Anything they announce is really an excerise in keeping their "stock price high" and "shareholders" happy. Little to do with those of us who fund their company.
I can speculate on what their announcement will be: 50% salary increase to the CEO, no pay raises for the staff. Hiring freeze well in place until Mordor explodes. Oh and did I mention that the CEO will get a mega bonus too? And a big hunk of stock options. For "this" we will get The MORE-DOUGH-STORE.
(ok maybe a bit much but not far off the mark most likely).
I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! <Your winnings, sir.>
[sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
As a long time player (Since Beta) I have noticed the massive changes in this game and often worry when the WB will decide this cash cow no longer satisfies the greed of corporate HQ and pulls the plug. There is a remarkable difference in the way the game was run pre/post WB. I truly believe that Turbine in pre Warner Bros day really cared about putting out a great product knowing that the game will pay for itself (I for one loved that business model). I think now devs are forced to find ways to make money first, save money second, and third of all put out a product that satisfies goals 1 and 2. Im still kicking myself in my behind for never going lifetime in the past always telling myself I will do it later. Im now super leary as to even purchasing subs beyond 3 monts at a time in advance because I dont trust WB as far as I can throw them. A prime example is when one of the forum mods said the store would offer "Convenience NOT Advantage" only to have the store reverse direction and offer massive advantages. I really beleive the mod was told that and the powers that be upstairs changed their minds and changed the store all in the name of making a buck.
My whole point in this giant wall of text is that I dont trust Warner Bros as far as I can throw them. While I dont believe this game is going to close anytime soon, I dont trust WB to not make a giant sales push to make some fast cash and then abruptly shutter the game and run like hell to the bank leaving us players out of money and Turbine employees out of a job.
I also bevieve that people are fleeing this game like mad. With the advent of F2P there is no true leaving the game, so lets call cancelling subs leaving the game. Im from a huge kin, and it has 31 members that have subbed to TOR, and more than half of them are active subs who have chosen to have their subs cancelled thus reverting to Premium, the rest are lifers so they have no sub to "cancel" but will be doing a huge amout of playing in another game and giving their money to another company. The true test is where they will be in 2-4 months. Seems that every game that is supposed to be a Lotro killer never lives up to the hype but I fear that TOR does and D3 is right around the corner too. While I most likely wont be canceling my sub to play TOR, if TOR turns my kin into a ghost town I may cancel just for that reason and look elsewhere to spend my gaming dollars which is in effect more people leaving because of TOR and not just for it.
Everybody said that WB was the best thing for this game, the only real improvements that can be credited to WB are the store and F2P, I think otherwise the expansions have been lacklustre, updates have been blahh.
For all the stuff WB was supposed to do for this game, I cant figure out why everytime I turn on adult swim all I see are commercials for WoW with Chuck Norris and commercials for TOR. Where is the LOVE WB? Of is it just a love of all things green?
I will add that Im neither a Turbine/lotro butt kisser, nor am I a naysaying fool. Im a gamer in tough economic times trying to spend my small gaming budget wisely, and telling it how I see it.
Last edited by Followthelight; Dec 23 2011 at 09:47 AM.
Reason: Added some needed punctuation
There is a definite drop in terms of content being released these days.
The only real hope is that they are stockpiling it so that when they (hopefully) get an influx of new players around the Hobbit release they can keep them with some great updates.
However, it's looking more and more like they're providing as little as possible while trying to remove as much money as possible from players via the store.
Personally I think they've gone too far with regards to that balancing act and they are losing more players with their current approach than is sustainable over the long term. However, in meetings these days, it's all about showing a profit for this quarter. If you can make a profit this quarter then nobody cares if it means you'll be poorer next year, that's being judged against a different set of objectives and won't affect this year's bonus.
I don't think they'll abandon the game unless they actually start losing money. However, they could probably make a lot more and grow the subscriber base more, if they started putting out more content that wasn't gated by the store and kept the store for fluff and for allowing free players to unlock what comes with VIP. If you are VIP then you shouldn't have to buy anything from the store in order to enjoy the game or compete with others if you PvMP or Raid (I'm looking at you relic removal scrolls, stat tomes, etc.)
Charging people a subscription then giving them nothing in return for that subscription other than fast travel, freep PvMP and a fraction of the amount of TP that they could buy for the same amount they pay on subscription is a bad business model in my opinion. It causes resentment in the playerbase and loses you goodwill and customers.
Last edited by KitCaboodle; Dec 23 2011 at 09:51 AM.
There is a definite drop in terms of content being released these days.
The only real hope is that they are stockpiling it so that when they (hopefully) get an influx of new players around the Hobbit release they can keep them with some great updates.
Hope this ISNT true, that would make it new player friendly and nothing for us at level cap. But they way they do business around here it may very well be the case :/
Wait until January and you'll find out what the plans are, since Turbine will announce their 2012 schedule then.
LOL. Since when? Is this a new tradition that you are especially privy to?
Turbine doesn't reveal their plans. And if they talk about what they intend for the coming year, it will be done in vagaries that would be difficult to pin down. And finally, past revelations have tended to go unfulfilled by and large.
After all the lies coming out of Turbine over their MT store, I rather expect that whatever they say - if they say anything at all - will be a work of pure fiction.
There is a lot of grousing about the last expansion on the boards, but I saw an interview where Turbine said it was their highest sell through of all the expansions. There's a very wide consensus in the industry that their f2p model "got it right." (Enough that a lot of other games are going f2p--and I would add are not getting it right.)
Note - they make far less per month for AC they for Lotro, and it still gets regular updates, still gets full support. Turbine isn't known for "abandoning" anything.
Note - they make far less per month for AC they for Lotro, and it still gets regular updates, still gets full support. Turbine isn't known for "abandoning" anything.
I seem to recall that Asheron's Call had a sequel.
Though granted, killing it was the kindest thing they could possibly have done.
just wondering? are turbine already begining to squeeze the last out of us? people keep talking about the poor quality of updates and the shortening of the epic game? if feels as if they are begining to rush towards the end abit more now but what do other people think? will they be making enough to continue with the game ect?
Turbine is still operating their first game Asheron's Call that launched in 1999. I do not see Lotro going away for many years.
Look at how long SWG limped along after NGE. It lasted until SWTOR was about to live launch.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
There is a lot of grousing about the last expansion on the boards, but I saw an interview where Turbine said it was their highest sell through of all the expansions. There's a very wide consensus in the industry that their f2p model "got it right." (Enough that a lot of other games are going f2p--and I would add are not getting it right.)
It was a "highest sell" in pre-orders. If they'd released this content in the condition it was released and then took orders, sales would have been far from satisfactory.
To many people, free will is a license to rebel not against what is unjust or hard in life but against what is best for them and true.
There is a definite drop in terms of content being released these days.
The only real hope is that they are stockpiling it so that when they (hopefully) get an influx of new players around the Hobbit release they can keep them with some great updates.
However, it's looking more and more like they're providing as little as possible while trying to remove as much money as possible from players via the store.
Personally I think they've gone too far with regards to that balancing act and they are losing more players with their current approach than is sustainable over the long term. However, in meetings these days, it's all about showing a profit for this quarter. If you can make a profit this quarter then nobody cares if it means you'll be poorer next year, that's being judged against a different set of objectives and won't affect this year's bonus.
I don't think they'll abandon the game unless they actually start losing money. However, they could probably make a lot more and grow the subscriber base more, if they started putting out more content that wasn't gated by the store and kept the store for fluff and for allowing free players to unlock what comes with VIP. If you are VIP then you shouldn't have to buy anything from the store in order to enjoy the game or compete with others if you PvMP or Raid (I'm looking at you relic removal scrolls, stat tomes, etc.)
Charging people a subscription then giving them nothing in return for that subscription other than fast travel, freep PvMP and a fraction of the amount of TP that they could buy for the same amount they pay on subscription is a bad business model in my opinion. It causes resentment in the playerbase and loses you goodwill and customers.
Well, first of all please allow me to say that you make a very fine post. Well-written, cleanly edited, and some great points. It's nice to see a post from someone who cares enough about what they have to say to make it intelligible, instead of filling it with texting shortcuts and street-level grammar. + rep.
The red highlighted text is what has affected my own attitude toward this game so much. I very strongly oppose the MT Store, because of how drastically it has changed this game, but I could live with it if they backed WAY OFF with the junk they are offering in it. A large percentage of that stuff violates their promises about what they would and would not sell in the store. I don't mind the cosmetics. But consumables are a stratagem part of the game. Players spend a good deal of time gathering resources, crafting consumables and either hoarding them or selling them. Some players do better than others because they take the time to make sure they have all of the necessary consumables. It's a strategy of gameplay. It is EARNED because it takes a fair amount of time to collect the materials and make the items.
Others will buy, but they buy FROM OTHER PLAYERS - again, part of the player strategy. When a player decides to buy, he enriches ME.
This is no longer the case. It is a lot more convenient to just buy the consumables. So fewer people are making them, and almost no one buys them from the AH anymore because the AH is far away and the store is right there at your fingertips.
The MT store has fairly killed the economies of medium and sparse servers. Not to mention that they've turned the game into a show of how much money you can spend in the store, rather than how good or dedicated a player you are. There is nothing to show for being a dedicated player, unless you buy it in the store. And you don't have to be a dedicated player to buy it.
And you can see the change in the player base just by reading the posts from the people who get a kick out of buying their way through a game. That's not a good player. It's just somebody with money that they don't mind throwing away. Those are a dime a dozen, so nothing special there.
If Turbine could back off on the store and sell quest packs, a few benefits like auction house slots and bag space for the free players, I wouldn't mind it. But a VIP player who is paying to play the game should not have to spend money in the store to compete with richer players.
But even more disappointing that the store is the content Turbine has produced over the last couple of years. It just keeps getting worse and worse. So yes, I feel like they are doing as little as possible while milking the players for as much as they can get out of them. Let's face it: there are a lot of people out there who are pretty ignorant when it comes to handling money. Those are the people Turbine's store focuses on the most. And their presence in the game is pretty evident.
When a game has a reputation like that, it makes all of the players look bad. I'm a good player. I like to learn my class and use my class skills to their fullest. I don't like cheats, like buying my consumable and mounts from the store. Or buying my LI necessities from the store. But even though I don't touch the store, the game makes me look like every other player in the game. A bad player that can't do it without the store, without cheating. Doesn't have the patience or refuses to put in the time. Doesn't want to do it a second or third time. Boo-hoo! Excuses, excuses. Anything to justify being lazy and whipping out the wallet to take shortcuts.
The people who like to play an MMO the way an mmo is supposed to be played have left. The ones that are left are the ones that found being lazy better than actually playing the game.
I prefer to play the game. When the developer tosses in a store that makes the game eaiser for every except me, I quit. There is no longer any point in going to all that trouble, because everyone is going to assume I got my stuff the same way they did: through the store. That makes me look like the typical "buy your way through the game" kind of player. I don't want to look like that, so I don't like being in the game. I don't like being associated with the game.
As for the quality and quantity of the content these past couple of years, that was just the nail in the coffin for me. If I am paying for an MMOG, I expect new content regularly. I don't expect the developer to keep everyone occupied with new content all the time, but I expect them to at least try to keep it regular. With one main and 22 alts, I think it is pretty obvious that I don't mind doing content over again if it is decent to begin with. But I can't keep doing that indefinitely. When it takes that many alts to have something to do in the game, something is wrong. And I have never played as much as a lot of other players do. If I got twenty hours in the game over the course of a week, I had a really good week.
Turbine goes for months and months without giving us new content and then after that long wait the content is disappointingly weak and short-lived. I can get better than that elsewhere. And I have. That's where I am now - in those other games. I have like eight other games to play right now and every one of them is vastly better. So why throw money away on a game the developer obviously doesn't care about when I can use that money elsewhere on something better?
Last edited by Hammerfast; Dec 23 2011 at 10:51 AM.
Turbine is still operating their first game Asheron's Call that launched in 1999. I do not see Lotro going away for many years.
By your reckoning then, AC2 should still be in operation. Asheron's Call 1 survives because it has a dedicated following that continues to support the game. When AC2 lost its players it went belly-up. So the fact that AC1 is still standing is irrelevant to LOTRO. Turbine has showed that if the game doesn't continue to make them money, they shut it down.
That's not something to hold against them. If the game isn't making them money in some fashion by its presence, there is no point in trying to maintain it.
I seem to recall that Asheron's Call had a sequel.
Though granted, killing it was the kindest thing they could possibly have done.
One game out of 4 is not a pattern of abandoning games. And, strictly speaking, it wasn't really a Turbine project, even though they made it. It was a Microsoft project - Turbine was merely a contractor. Thats basically the root of everything that was "wrong" with that game. Don't get me wrong - it was a decent enough game... but a big problem was that it was called Asheron's Call 2...and it *wasn't* just AC with better graphics. :-P
By your reckoning then, AC2 should still be in operation. Asheron's Call 1 survives because it has a dedicated following that continues to support the game. When AC2 lost its players it went belly-up. So the fact that AC1 is still standing is irrelevant to LOTRO. Turbine has showed that if the game doesn't continue to make them money, they shut it down.
Different issue in play. Turbine decided to try and operate two games for the same IP at the same time. It did not work well. Most of the population for AC2 came via people moving from AC to AC2. A lot of the movers were like me. We thought AC was the superior product we went back to AC. Or we thought AC2 was a dung game - being bored with AC - which was the reason for going to AC2 - went to an offering by another company.
It more like the SWG and SWTOR situation. The solution was to shut SWG down shortly before SWTOR reached live launch.
There was another issue that is not commonly known. At the time Turbine was operating AC and AC2. Neither of which were generating large sums of money. Turbine had a troubled development of two games DDO and LOTRO. Plus expansions for AC and AC2 underway. Sales for Throne of Destiny AC were not great and Legions for AC2 were horrid. The local EB Games could not sell any copies of Legions - I bought all their copies for a dollar.
Turbine ran out of dollars. They did not have any money to finish DDO and Lotro. This lead toa unpleasant situation where the bankers assumed control of Turbine. AC2 was shut down as part of the cost savings. Made sure that the company reduced expenses and finished the two games. Launched the games. After Lotro launched Jim Crowley of the bankers took over the CEO position with the intention of selling the company so they could get their dollars.
WB became the buyer. Apparently Jim Crowley left soon there after to run another start up with the intention of selling it to someone for dollars.
The good news is that bankers saw enough value in Turbine to complete the two games, get them live launched. Sell the company to someone like WB. The alternative was to shut Turbine down and try to recover their investment via selling what Turbine had.
Remember looking at hisgtoric data - How many game development housies that were founded in the mid 90s, managed to survive as independents for more ten year? How many of the game development houses that were bought by other companies survived being bought? There is a long list of companies like Sierra that have disappeared.
Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Dec 23 2011 at 11:33 AM.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
I'd imagine the shelf life of this game is about 5 more years.
LOL. I got a good laugh out of that one.
Believe me, Hex, I hope I am wrong. Because if it turns out that I am wrong, LOTRO will have gone one of two ways: it will either be like Wizard 101, where EVERYTHING comes from the store, or it will shape up and become an MMORPG again.
The kind of crowd that a store-based game lures is not for me. I will have moved on, deleted LOTRO and will never look back. But if Turbine does that to LOTRO, I will never LOOK at another Turbine product.
I keep asking myself "How do you screw up an IP like Lord of the Rings?"
Lord of the Rings is one of the most popular tales in the world. Long before the movies came out it was being widely read in many countries around the globe. The movies made it that much more known, that much more famous.
The IP alone should be drawing people like flies. So why is LOTRO not doing better? Why isn't it the top game out there? Why is a lousy, OLDER game like WoW doing so much better?
The answer is there. People like you, Hex, have pointed these things out on many occasions. But its a complex answer:
1) poorly designed, unreactive user interface.
2) combat based on animation timing.
3) very, very poor itemization throughout the game.
4) unfinished systems: housing, fishing, hobbies, PvMP, LI's and more that are incomplete, unrefined or simply abandoned.
5) Poor character animations.
6) poor character customization.
7) gameplay designed to put players in a mold that duplicates the same traits, skills, and gear choices that are the standard everyone has adopted.
8) an economy that is constantly interfered with or wrecked by the developer's choices.
9) Fun or interesting gameplay removed or ruined for the sake of balance .... in a PvE game!!
10) extremely sparse new content.
11) after very long waits for new content, the new content is disappointingly sloppy, buggy, and not fun. And it turns out to be too dang little too darn late!
12) turn the whole game into a buy-it-in-the-store-fest, so that all of the skilled players, the players interested in storyline or role-playing, all have to go elsewhere to find the gameplay they require.
13) handle the game in such a way as to leave only the shortcut-loving players in the game.
And you want to give five more years to THAT? I have this really cool bridge I'd like to sell you......
Seriously, a lot of that stuff near the end of the list has JUST BEGUN. That stuff is an avalanche. It will roll down the mountainside....indeed it has only just begun to roll. It WILL adversely affect your game.
And you want to give five more years to THAT? I have this really cool bridge I'd like to sell you......
Seriously, a lot of that stuff near the end of the list has JUST BEGUN. That stuff is an avalanche. It will roll down the mountainside....indeed it has only just begun to roll. It WILL adversely affect your game.
There are a lot of potential customers that like what you listed. Unfortunately, they are not the customers that the launch version of Lotro appealed to.
IMHO - A lot of the older long term customers are going to wander off because the game is changing in a way they do not like. It is not a problem for Turbine. A lot of these people have lifetimes. They have all the expansions. There are not many more wallet mining opportunities.
As to whether, WB and Turbine can make a go of the new game. Only time will tell.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
The servers will stay up as long as the game remains profitable.
That's not to say there aren't undesirable means to remaining profitable - such as server merges and staff cuts... The real key is keeping it in the black.
Different issue in play. Turbine decided to try and operate two games for the same IP at the same time. It did not work well. Most of the population for AC2 came via people moving from AC to AC2. A lot of the movers were like me. We thought AC was the superior product we went back to AC. Or we thought AC2 was a dung game - being bored with AC - which was the reason for going to AC2 - went to an offering by another company.
It more like the SWG and SWTOR situation. The solution was to shut SWG down shortly before SWTOR reached live launch.
There was another issue that is not commonly known. At the time Turbine was operating AC and AC2. Neither of which were generating large sums of money. Turbine had a troubled development of two games DDO and LOTRO. Plus expansions for AC and AC2 underway. Sales for Throne of Destiny AC were not great and Legions for AC2 were horrid. The local EB Games could not sell any copies of Legions - I bought all their copies for a dollar.
Turbine ran out of dollars. They did not have any money to finish DDO and Lotro. This lead toa unpleasant situation where the bankers assumed control of Turbine. AC2 was shut down as part of the cost savings. Made sure that the company reduced expenses and finished the two games. Launched the games. After Lotro launched Jim Crowley of the bankers took over the CEO position with the intention of selling the company so they could get their dollars.
WB became the buyer. Apparently Jim Crowley left soon there after to run another start up with the intention of selling it to someone for dollars.
The good news is that bankers saw enough value in Turbine to complete the two games, get them live launched. Sell the company to someone like WB. The alternative was to shut Turbine down and try to recover their investment via selling what Turbine had.
Remember looking at hisgtoric data - How many game development housies that were founded in the mid 90s, managed to survive as independents for more ten year? How many of the game development houses that were bought by other companies survived being bought? There is a long list of companies like Sierra that have disappeared.
Wow! Yula! That's the longest speech I've seen you make in a long time
Thanks you for taking the time to respond. I highlighted the one part of your reply that I am not sure I can agree with because I was there too. You make it sound like it wasn't the game that was in trouble. You make it sound like it was purely Turbine in trouble and that AC2 was merely a victim of the investor's decision making process.
While they no doubt made the decision, I was there. I was still the ONE LAST player playing AC2. There was NOBODY else playing, Yula. That game was empty and was no longer viable. If Turbine had been perfectly healthy and viable, they still would have had to shut it down.
And where did the players go? No they most certainly did NOT go to the other half of that same IP. Certainly a few players returned to AC1, but AC1 did not have that big a following to begin with. MOST of those players went to the competition: to World of Warcraft. I was in a guild of 802 players in AC2, and almost every one of those players went over to WoW. Not to AC1, but to WoW.
By the way Yula, I'm composing another PM for ya! It'll take a little while....
So, no, Turbine is not abandoning the game. Just because some members of the community have thrown tomatoes at them for ROI doesn't mean they are closing up shop and trudging over the horizon. Just because some believe the Store has over stepped and that too much content with store-bought requirements is being put into the game doesn't mean they aren't also designing for the game itself. Just because some players prefer solo end-game content and aren't getting any; just because some players want better PvMP; just because some players despise the LI system; just because some player are bored of 6-/12-mans as only end-game content; just because some players hate that so much of the game is a grind doesn't mean that LOTRO is on its last legs or that Turbine agrees with any of that or that because some forum posters heap ashes on their heads that Turbine is going to take their football and go home in a huff.
The most popular threads see about 25,000 viewings and perhaps 500 postings, assuming those are all individuals and not back-and-forths between several posters. If the player base is 100,000, that's 25% of the population. If the player base is 150,000, that's 16% of the population. If the player base is 200,000, that's 12.5% of the population. If the player base is 250,000, that 10% of the population VIEWING the thread. With a much smaller percentage engaged enough to post. Yea, the forums are mighty, but don't be fooled into thinking that negative points of view are prevalent, overriding, or determinative.
LOTRO is really just hitting its stride. It continues to be a superior game. LoTR is the greatest fantasy franchise of all time. Turbine is unlikely to ever abandon LOTRO. They might be required to shut down the servers because they cannot renew the license, but I would be very surprised if they voluntarily said, "We quit."
Note - they make far less per month for AC they for Lotro, and it still gets regular updates, still gets full support. Turbine isn't known for "abandoning" anything.
Hi Arbalister, I see YOU are still here too
I'm not sure if you were referring to my post or not. I stuck with AC2 until it shut down. And when it shut down I was the only person logged onto the server. So I certainly did not mean to insinuate that Turbine has ever abandoned a game. They abandon lots of things inside the game, but never the game itself. I tried to play for a good three months in the last days of AC2. But the MOST people I saw during that time was 11 on a busy night. They kept supporting the game long after it had stopped making them money.
I know a lot of people disliked AC2 and felt that it was inferior to AC1. And I personally had a lot of complaints about the chat constantly failing, servers locking up and crashing, in-game functionality breaking down, etc, etc. But I loved the IP. Of all the games I've played, that one remains my favorite for the concept of the game, the story behind it, and the setting. I REALLY wish they'd redo it, and really do it up good and bring it back with a modern, reliable game engine.
My guess remains "2017", primarily because 2017 is when their license extension with Middle-earth Enterprises runs out, and when they need to make a hard decision about paying major $$ for a license renewal. It's almost inevitable that they'll be well along on a slow decline by then - that's just the lifecycle for an MMO. If Asheron's Call had faced a major IP licensing negotiation for its 10th anniversary, I'm pretty sure it would be closed now.
I also think they'll have a new "primary money-maker" in the next few years, whether it's a Harry Potter MMO or whatever else comes from their relationship with WB. That will give them less incentive to keep LOTRO running past the time when it's providing significant profit.
The store stuff is annoying, but the single most effective thing I did when it came out was:
Don't tie my enjoyment of the game to how random strangers play, or what random strangers think of me.
I play, complete, and enjoy all the content in LOTRO without having spent money outside my $10 a month.
I still get a sense of accomplishment after completing a virtue, regardless of how easy it is for the guy who pays money for it. Same with anything else.
Some of us oldtimers will adapt and survive. And there are more and more new players coming in every day.
LOTRO will be around for a while yet.
Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...
I expect lotro to be around for years to come, just maybe fewer servers, their hardcore buddies and folks that like the store should be very happy. They just need to clean up the clutter so it starts playing smoothly again. They've already lost most of the casuals and crafters and such that were here at the beginning, so shouldn't be too much more of a loss.
I'm not sure if you were referring to my post or not. I stuck with AC2 until it shut down. And when it shut down I was the only person logged onto the server.
I don't know what server you were on, but my wife and I played to the very end and weren't the only ones on TD the night it all went dark.
To second what others said...a lot of what killed AC2 were actually MS demands, not Turbine choices. The first, biggest, and possibly most important, was the use of MS's choice of a chat system: One that didn't actually work. Once Turbine found or wrote their own, it was pretty good and included cross-server /tells.
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Originally Posted by KrisDW
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Re: when will turbine abandon this game?
Different issue in play. Turbine decided to try and operate two games for the same IP at the same time. It did not work well. Most of the population for AC2 came via people moving from AC to AC2. A lot of the movers were like me. We thought AC was the superior product we went back to AC. Or we thought AC2 was a dung game - being bored with AC - which was the reason for going to AC2 - went to an offering by another company.
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