Thread: LM main healing 3-mans

I was poking at another post in suggestions today, and went to post something, then decided I might actually be better off asking this in the Loremaster's territory rather than burying it. I'm genuinely curious how LMs are doing with their healing abilities.
edit add one major question: Do you like that we have an option of healing or do you feel a fully capstoned 5-deep Ancient Master LM should have good enough Debuffs to negate needing to heal the tank a lot, with only a side of Eagle and Improved flanking trait?

I figure I might go over some Things an LM can do to improve their healing if they find themselves in a 3-man with very little to no healing.
Improved Flanking trait (heals our air-lore target on flank)
Light of Hope trait (lessens the cooldown on our burst heal BoH)
Improved Inner Flame trait (Our self& pet heal is turned into a group heal, that requires us to bluebar-channel the skill, and hopefully not get hit.)
Healer trait ()
Beacon of Hope +10% maxxed out legacy
+50% Inner Flame Healing maxxed out legacy
Maxxed out healing bonus on our book LI
Tactical Mastery (which includes our Outgoing Healing)
plenty of the Will stat which helps with Tact Mastery numbers go up too.
*(did I miss anything here?)

Anywho, all this discussion on healing, I would really love to hear from all types of LMs who have managed to main heal any of the new instances... with a champ tank or a guardian with NO other healers.
(I consider semi-traited captains healers, of course minis & rks, I even consider burgs to be healers somewhat due to the massive amounts of cjs and possible heals from each of those CJs.) I guess this is not exactly me offering a challenge, but more out of curiousity, of things to look forward to, or not.

The groups I'm mostly curious on are.
=Main heal a group with a guardian tank and a champ dps'r.
-main heal a group with a guardian tank and a hunter dps'r. (I think this would be easier as the hunter should be able to stay out of range of most damage. But I'd still like to hear how they went.)
-main heal a group with a guardian in Overpower 24/7 and a hunter dps'r. (I had this combo in a lev 65 "library" pug once, and gosh, I about keeled over from stress, but we pulled it off with few if no deaths. I forget if we lost the hunter maybe once, too many of those runs blur together.)
=Main heal a group with a Captain - tank or DPS traited with RK DPS'r both nuking their heals for dps. I'd allow for the captain to toss up rallying cries here and there, just none of the self-healing traited words of courage.
=Main heal a group with 2 hunters (serious kudos to the group managing this versus any boss.) Was it a ping-pong fest?
=Main heal a group with a champ-tank and guardian dps'r.
-main heal a group with a champ-tank and hunter dps.
-main heal a group with champ-tank and RK (dps only)

Which instance? (I've been listening to folks on teamspeak and read forums and it sounds like the end with the dargnakh troll one might really put LM main healing to the test. So if you manage this, kudos in advance!)
Dare I ask if any LM has been main-healer for the new 6-man, or is that definitely a "no way man!" ?

Tell me which pet you use for heals or flanks: Bog lurker, Limrafn, or Eagle.
Did you have any "Yipes! That was way too close." moments? Were there a number of wipes before succeeding?
Would you write off any of these above groupings to be "crazy" for an LM to accomplish main-healing in a certain 3-man instance?
What sort of gear do you have? (feel free to link to your lotro character page.)
Do you have any uber 75 gear pieces that you think gives your LM a good advantage at this main-healing?
And last of all, do you haz any pictures to share?

Originally Posted by Griffy

I was poking at another post in suggestions today, and went to post something, then decided I might actually be better off asking this in the Loremaster's territory rather than burying it. I'm genuinely curious how LMs are doing with their healing abilities.
edit add one major question: Do you like that we have an option of healing or do you feel a fully capstoned 5-deep Ancient Master LM should have good enough Debuffs to negate needing to heal the tank a lot, with only a side of Eagle and Improved flanking trait?

I never trait AM for anything less than a 6-man, and even then there had better be a really good reason. In a 3-man I stick with 5 MoNF and add couple healing traits if required. Occasionally I may drop down to 4 or 3 MoNF if I absolutely require some other traits. Generally I try to keep DPS output high to significantly shorten each encounter.

Anywho, all this discussion on healing, I would really love to hear from all types of LMs who have managed to main heal any of the new instances... with a champ tank or a guardian with NO other healers.

Using the Instance Finder, I have completed Daghnakh and Fangorn on T1 as the main healer with a Guardian/Warden as tank and a hunter. Daghnakh end fight is tricky and requires some luck because of the huge bursts of AoE damage, but with the right timing it is possible. Fangorn is easier and we did not lose a single Huorn to the trolls in the end fight.

Dare I ask if any LM has been main-healer for the new 6-man, or is that definitely a "no way man!" ?

I've run Foundry once and I struggled simply being the secondary healer in the end fight, so I am not in a hurry to try being the main healer there. Perhaps when I learn the instance better, but I don't imagine so. I ended up going full DPS with Limrafn heals there because my group could not beat down the forge fast enough.

Tell me which pet you use for heals or flanks: Bog lurker, Limrafn, or Eagle.

Limrafn. It's a really useful pet who does not die and leave you in the lurch. I have argued in another thread that he still needs some boosting, but you can get good healing out of him.

Would you write off any of these above groupings to be "crazy" for an LM to accomplish main-healing in a certain 3-man instance?

One group I have been eager to try is LM Captain Hunter/champ. Perversely though, all the captains who get matched with me on the Instance Finder so far drop group if they do not see a main tank or main healer, sometimes quite angrily so. I don't know what's wrong with them or if they know something I don't.

What sort of gear do you have? (feel free to link to your lotro character page.)
Do you have any uber 75 gear pieces that you think gives your LM a good advantage at this main-healing?

Everything I have was bought/bartered in Galtrev or picked up in 3/6-man instances or skirmish raids. Nothing crafted. Lv 75 3rd age weaponry.

Originally Posted by Griffy

=Main heal a group with a guardian tank and a champ dps'r.

Which instance? (I've been listening to folks on teamspeak and read forums and it sounds like the end with the dargnakh troll one might really put LM main healing to the test. So if you manage this, kudos in advance!)

Ran all three 3-mans with this qroup, but we couldn't beat dargnakh. Pit and fangorn went smoothly though.
I'm not even close to optimized for healing, have none of those legacies, so you may easily do better than I did.

Dare I ask if any LM has been main-healer for the new 6-man, or is that definitely a "no way man!" ?

No way Man!

Tell me which pet you use for heals or flanks: Bog lurker, Limrafn, or Eagle.

Limrafn. The returned heals from DPS, along with limrafns third skill helped keep the champ topped up, while predicable flanks focus healing on the tank.
I dearly appreciate that the Limrafn tends to stay alive through fights providing flank heals untill the very end.

Is there any good reason to trait improved Inner Flame?
Even with +50% legacy it is too low for a pretty long channeltime.

Originally Posted by xeria

One group I have been eager to try is LM Captain Hunter/champ. Perversely though, all the captains who get matched with me on the Instance Finder so far drop group if they do not see a main tank or main healer, sometimes quite angrily so. I don't know what's wrong with them or if they know something I don't.

I've run 3man content before U5 with a hunter friend and my wife on her LM while tanking on my captain and it went pretty well. If the captain has decent gear, they'll have enough self heals to bridge the gap between beacon of hope cooldowns and flank heals.

Originally Posted by xeria

One group I have been eager to try is LM Captain Hunter/champ. Perversely though, all the captains who get matched with me on the Instance Finder so far drop group if they do not see a main tank or main healer, sometimes quite angrily so. I don't know what's wrong with them or if they know something I don't.

That group surely should be win! Although, as soon as you take a captain to a 3-man It's not really the LM "main-healing" it, in my opinion. Captains really shine in healing 3-mans (especially when having the right legacies maxed out), even when not particularly traited for it. Of course the LM will be great in keeping the captain up, while the captain can take care of the rest of the fellowship as well. The combination of LM-Captain should work very well, no matter what DPS class you pick as third. If that DPS class is a champion however, it's probably easier to let the champ tank and the captain DPS+heal.

I think people playing with random players through the instance finder just had too many failures and prefer to 'play safe' and pick a group with a tank and healer, boring though it might be. That said, champs can actually be good tanks when build for it and knowing what to do. A befriended champ managed to create a tank build with his mitigations capped, probably being more survivable than a warden can be (sadly so).

Originally Posted by Tatharil

Is there any good reason to trait improved Inner Flame?
Even with +50% legacy it is too low for a pretty long channeltime.

I have the same experience. Improved Inner Flame heals not much for a long channeling time in which you could've done a lot of other, more useful things (like debuffing, or killing the enemy). It becomes (relatively) better if you're playing with more people and thus healing more people with the skill (6-mans), but then it's due to its nature still only viable if (almost) all people take damage. And usually it's only one or two actually doing so...

Improved flanking is great, though! I must say it is sort of a shame that Impr. Inner Flame doesn't work out that well; for healing it's nice to take Light of Hope, Healer and Impr. Flanking, just breaking the AM 5-set by that (improved debuffs diminishing the amount you get hit is a form of healing too in a way). It's a hard choice how to trait now. The decision would be easier if there were more useful blue traits to pick.

--

This all said, I didn't have the chance to main-heal any of the new 3-mans yet. Fun to read about it here! I can see how Daghnakh could be hard to heal through, hitting as hard as he does. Although I've only seen the fights on T2 so far, so can't say anything about T1. I guess it would make the T1 3-mans much more fun doing them without a main-healer.

I'm used to picking eagle or raven (don't underestimate 1,3k tactical mitigation for fights in which the majority of damage taken is tactical; preventing damage to be taken is also a form of healing ) for healing 3-mans, but haven't had much time to mess around with the improved version of the light yet. It certainly looks promising for 3-mans.

Most fun at LM-healing I had was duo'ing Mordirith at level 65 with a champ and doing Inn of the Forsaken T2 Challenge at level cap (before Update 5) with a champion and a burglar. Everything went smooth and flawless, although the last boss was a pain in the ... . Great feeling when we made it, though!

I did Halls of night lvl 75 with a hunter and a guardian. I went full MONF with eagle. The run was smooth up until last boss i died after tossing sticky gourd and getting aggro...the boss was almost dead so the guardian and hunter finished him off.

I have also healed Fangorn tier 1 with a guardian and hunter. Went very well. This time also full MONF and eagle.

Had the opportunity to run Dragnakh with a guardian and another LM i traited full red other LM blue with limrafn. We wiped a couple of times because it was first run for all three of us so we didn't know what to expect. We managed to pull it off tho eventually. The only real hard moment is when the adds come in and heal Hurva...they are 33k each and comes in 2. And last fight when Troll does his ground pound.. Tank takes alot of dmg before he can escape..

I did alot of scholl and library runs before update 5. My favourite composition of group was me full Red with raven and ents and 2 champions. Mobs just melted away, not much healing needed. And at last boss with birds my favourite tactic is, put tar down let tank aggro boss and all birds, lead them to tar and then drop sticky gourd in the middle of birds and start run in circles...doesn't take many seconds for all birds to die.

I'm really feel that the healing capabilities has improved alot, at moment my outgoing healing is 39% and dmg is increased with 82%. My flank heal often give me 1400 morale, and the eagle flanks alot. I haven't tried traiting blue and use boglurker yet. The limrafn is starting to look promising. LM is in a good spot now i think, we bring much to a fellowship these days.

Originally Posted by Tatharil

Is there any good reason to trait improved Inner Flame?
Even with +50% legacy it is too low for a pretty long channeltime.

Thank you for asking this. I forgot to ask myself (I didn't want to derail the intent of the post), but I am curious on this as well. Anyone use our Traited Inner Flame? Or is it pretty much as it has always been, I suspect: lousy very interruptable SLOWWWwww & Low healing, channeling bluebar. (I'm not positive, but I think I noticed once that when it is traited, you don't actually need an alive pet to use it.)
But I highly agree with Ravanel a bunch of statements (highlighted them in red).

Originally Posted by Ravanel

That group surely should be win! Although, as soon as you take a captain to a 3-man It's not really the LM "main-healing" it, in my opinion. *snipped for shortness*

I think people playing with random players through the instance finder just had too many failures and prefer to 'play safe' and pick a group with a tank and healer, boring though it might be. That said, champs can actually be good tanks when build for it and knowing what to do. A befriended champ managed to create a tank build with his mitigations capped, probably being more survivable than a warden can be (sadly so).

I have the same experience. Improved Inner Flame heals not much for a long channeling time in which you could've done a lot of other, more useful things (like debuffing, or killing the enemy). It becomes (relatively) better if you're playing with more people and thus healing more people with the skill (6-mans), but then it's due to its nature still only viable if (almost) all people take damage. And usually it's only one or two actually doing so...

Improved flanking is great, though! I must say it is sort of a shame that Impr. Inner Flame doesn't work out that well; for healing it's nice to take Light of Hope, Healer and Impr. Flanking, just breaking the AM 5-set by that (improved debuffs diminishing the amount you get hit is a form of healing too in a way). It's a hard choice how to trait now. The decision would be easier if there were more useful blue traits to pick.

*more snipped*
I'm used to picking eagle or raven (don't underestimate 1,3k tactical mitigation for fights in which the majority of damage taken is tactical; preventing damage to be taken is also a form of healing ) for healing 3-mans, but haven't had much time to mess around with the improved version of the light yet. It certainly looks promising for 3-mans.

Huzzah! Thanks everyone that has posted so far. These are all really appreciated and really cool. Thanks for confirming my suspicion on champ tanks doing well, if well built/prepared, so it can be a gamble to pug with one. While wardens have their problems, they seem to be doing better. I've been currently leveling my LM with a buddy's warden. They are very good complimenting classes. Just keep him stun dotted, toss out some debuffs when he's feeling like taking on 5+ wolves, and remove wounds. I look forward to the point we start running 3-mans and start gearing up a bit. With all those self heals, and grouped with LM healing, I think we'll be fine when we hit that point.

Originally Posted by Earengast

The only real hard moment is when the adds come in and heal Hurva...they are 33k each and comes in 2. And last fight when Troll does his ground pound.. Tank takes alot of dmg before he can escape..

Hmm, could you explain this pull... adds that heal a boss, sounds challenging'ish. Could not lock them down due to only having the MoNF 5 second mez, is that what made it rough? Or is there something else? Can the adds heal each other too? That almost sounds a bit frustrating.
Thanks for confirming that the troll puts the hurt on the tank. (it's a troll, it had better hurt! *chuckle*) That's why I was wondering how LMs were doing there.
It's interesting to see how folks go different approaches. Full dps, or semi-blue, or full AM.
Thank you again everyone... and keep the stories coming if you got 'em!

This is in the third phace where a guy have mezzed the troll somehow.

This dude does cause some wounds that does serious dmg if not cured, LM ftw. At some morale lvls adds come in. 2 at a time they hit pretty hard on tank. Heals boss abit of what i can see. If you concentrate on boss i think in the end you will have 6-8 adds 33k each, so they need to be killed before next morale treshhold.

So the rough part is we burned through alot of power in order to get 66k morale on adds down in oredr to use beacon of hope and wizards fire on tank..we had to pass power in between us and tank still gets hit... So timing with beacon and some luck with flanks is necassary...And since there are no breaks inbetween fights regen power is not an option. Boss has 139k at start and 8 adds before finished. If power were infinitive i think it would have been a breeze.

Add to that that boss do a couple of aoe blasts that can hurt pretty bad if you are affected by his wound. We felt we lacked some dps here. But with some luck on flank heals we made it. The second LM went with lurker here with airlore on tank. I had Airlore on that LM and eagle.

Was a really fun experience.

Originally Posted by Tatharil

Is there any good reason to trait improved Inner Flame?
Even with +50% legacy it is too low for a pretty long channeltime.

A few days ago I did Elendil's Tomb with three Champions. I was traited six KoA (including Improved Inner Flame) plus Fast Loader for additional interrupts and I had the eagle out. I was fully aware that my LM is not a main healer and also that our group lacked a proper tank.
So the strategy we came up with was this: I kept up Stun Immunity on everyone, cast Beacon of Hope and Share the Power as needed (and possible, due to cooldowns) and threw in interrupts and debuffs whenever I had the time. The eagle contributed more interrupts and was for back-up fearing the boss or rezzing the "healer" (which -in the end- wasn't needed).
The three Champions did a lot of running around and kiting when we fought the boss. I had instructed them beforehand to pass aggro about every 30 sec or so, so that none of them took too much damage before my Inner Flame was up again. They stuck to that plan beautifully and everything went great.

So the Champs took chunks out of the boss's morale bar, grabbing aggro and taking damage in turn, with me healing with Beacon of Hope if one of them took too much damage. Over the two minutes of Inner Flame Cooldown, they lost about 1200 or 1500 morale each. Then I healed up that much morale on all of them and we were ready for another 2 minutes of chaotic running around and trying to kill the boss (them, not me; I just stood by the side and watched the buff/debuff bars).

I am aware that this was a rather special situation and in many cases Improved Inner Flame is not as usefull, but playing a LM is all about thinking out of the box and finding new solutions for unexpected problems and/or new problems to be solved with the same old well-beloved skills.

Dargnakh T2+Challenge is pretty much duo-able with guard/warden. I traited MoNF, power drain, and Light of Hope, but with 3/5 OD set hot-swap crutch (sadly this is worth more than traiting semi-KoA still). I had Beacon of Hope legacy on 3rd age lv.75, Limrafn pet, and 23-24k Tactical Mastery.

Spoiler trick for Huva:
Drain his power twice before you start to dps. He doesn't regen it at all, so he's a sitting duck when the adds actually come. Do it after you know something else is his cower victim, though!

Originally Posted by Sealcow333

Dargnakh T2+Challenge is pretty much duo-able with guard/warden. I traited MoNF, power drain, and Light of Hope, but with 3/5 OD set hot-swap crutch (sadly this is worth more than traiting semi-KoA still). I had Beacon of Hope legacy on 3rd age lv.75, Limrafn pet, and 23-24k Tactical Mastery.

Spoiler trick for Huva:
Drain his power twice before you start to dps. He doesn't regen it at all, so he's a sitting duck when the adds actually come. Do it after you know something else is his cower victim, though!

FYI, power drain doesn't work on bosses (well, it doesn't drain bosses power, it still regens yours)

Lul, whoosh.

Originally Posted by Griffy

Hmm, could you explain this pull... adds that heal a boss, sounds challenging'ish. Could not lock them down due to only having the MoNF 5 second mez, is that what made it rough? Or is there something else? Can the adds heal each other too? That almost sounds a bit frustrating.
Thanks for confirming that the troll puts the hurt on the tank. (it's a troll, it had better hurt! *chuckle*) That's why I was wondering how LMs were doing there.

The adds have a channeled heal that affects both the boss and the other adds around him. Something like ~450 every 4 or 5 seconds. Just like the Angmarim priests in the old Barad Gularan.

As to the troll, his ground pound does about 1k to a heavy per hit, and he has a pretty quick attack speed in it. Near the end if you are using sunlight, he can turn around at random and nail light armour wearers for ~5-6k.

I have always wondered what would happen if we had no cool down for beacon of hope. The Spell cost a bit of moral to cast and can not be cast on ourselves so we couldn't keep the healing up all the time but would it really be too much if we could throw out some heals all the time?

Originally Posted by Lambs

I have always wondered what would happen if we had no cool down for beacon of hope. The Spell cost a bit of moral to cast and can not be cast on ourselves so we couldn't keep the healing up all the time but would it really be too much if we could throw out some heals all the time?

Yes, it would be too much... unless of course the actual heal amount was nerfed. It can heal for quite a bit if traited for heals and with legacies. Even without the legacies it can heal for a lot. If we were able to spam BoH, it would be crazy amounts of healing. There's already minis and RKs for healing, oh and captains do a pretty good job as well. LMs can do some pretty amazing things if played well, with people who understand their capabilities. 30 or 20 seconds, depending on traits, is a fair cooldown for beacon of hope.

Use BoH while the minstrel sings Song of Aid.
You will realize: BoH without any CD is too strong. Very fast and high healing.

You can have captain and anything and should be ok for most 3 mans..You dont need to have a lm heal at all.

We just did pits and fang last night and nither was a huge issue, we wiped once in pits at last troll, but that was it. We came back and I just amped up my dps on my hunter.


I would always heal 3 mans with my lm pre roi, it was always funny to see people who would come in and say.. why is that lm healing. HOWEVER, you can have no healer to do sch/lib (in old days, new challenge is a little tougher, as you HAVE to kite instead of drop group. Fang, you can do without a healer as well. but what the heck, everythign is easier with a healer in tow, even if its just the LM. Plus LM can bring some nice dps.

I know when im on my mini, there are alot of times I just heal in Warspeech (CoS hot, Aotfp and SoS, very limited heals, but heck if your blasting your nukes, you wont need much) and drop for full healing mode at the boss.

The last 3 man, Dargnakh is the hardest of the current 3 man stuff, and would be tough to do as a lm, with just a champ tanking. I would want a nice gaurd or a self healing wardy. Though two lms and a champ.. hmmmm. I wonder how that would go.


I really think there is "no , way man" of doing foundry without at least a captain to add to group, I know Ive Main healed with a second lm HoC before. But , I really dont see that on foundry.

Originally Posted by xeria

Originally Posted by Griffy

Would you write off any of these above groupings to be "crazy" for an LM to accomplish main-healing in a certain 3-man instance?

One group I have been eager to try is LM Captain Hunter/champ. Perversely though, all the captains who get matched with me on the Instance Finder so far drop group if they do not see a main tank or main healer, sometimes quite angrily so. I don't know what's wrong with them or if they know something I don't.

I did all new three-mans T2 Challenge yesterday with a group consisting of a captain, champion and lore-master. I didn't expect this, but the boss fights showed to be very easy all the time! They were pretty smooth runs overall. If anything, the trash was harder than the bosses (but, again, we didn't have any real problems).

The captain was traited 5 reds + 2 blues, the champion for his usual DPS madness and I was hybrid (3 red, 3 blue with 1 yellow - improved blinding flash). I used the raven for the parts with tactical damage (pits, angmarim boss in Dargnákh instance) and the limrafn for the boss fights with only common damage (the rest).

Fangorn
The Fangorn Challenge was fun as we let the captain run in circles while healing with a train of orcs after him, while the champion took down the trolls one by one. I was doing a combination of debuffing the trolls, throwing tar/cracked earthing the orcs that were after the captain, throwing fire balls at the trolls and occasionally throwing a heal to either captain or champion. I had to be careful with Beacon though, as it often would pull some new incoming orcs to me. Easiest thing to do was to run to the champ and let him get them off me.

Pits
Nothing much to say about this, really. Both bosses went very smooth. I was expecting the last one to be hard, but it was not the case. I was on kill-the-fumes-from-range duty.

Dargnákh
This was also a fun fight, not too hard either. The only thing special thing you need to do is to stay awake and run away when he goes smashing. The champion was tanking in glory (though not traited for it). The captain had him shield-brothered, there was a revealing mark on the boss and I used air-lore on the champion with impr. flanking traited. The limrafn was useful, especially by providing some extra healing with its AoE heal when the boss went smashing. I made sure to have it off cooldown during those phases.

Originally Posted by silverkelt

The last 3 man, Dargnakh is the hardest of the current 3 man stuff, and would be tough to do as a lm, with just a champ tanking. I would want a nice gaurd or a self healing wardy. Though two lms and a champ.. hmmmm. I wonder how that would go.

Overall, I'd say a champ can tank that boss quite well, as long as there's healing to some degree. I agree with you on this: I do have the feeling that LM as single healer would make the fight too tough. Captain and LM went great, LM + DPS RK with an occasional writs of health should work too and 2 LM + 2 limrafn... I don't see why that wouldn't work either.

I was of course doing this with two friends, so pugging it might be a different story. I do realize that 3-manning with a captain is not really LM 'main-healing', but thought I'd post it here anyway since there has been some talk about it. In the end, it was just great fun!

OK, sticking to your question of main healing with no other healer for 3 mans. I have not found a 3 man I cannot heal. While maybe not necessary, I will trait a mix of KoA and AM. If I am there to heal and support - that is what I do. The Champs, hunters, etx can be the real DPS. My book is geared towards healing.

I do not use the new glowy pet, I can't see a lot of healing from it, but I could be wrong. I prefer the eagle for self flank heals and the rez if it is needed. I have recently really gotten into playing the support role. Much more challanging and fun than mashing DPS buttons as MoNF. Mian issue I see with a main LM healer... Do not get behind, other than that, easy and fun.

1 tip for Dargnákh 1st boss is that LM with Power and Wisdom traited can easily drain all of the boss`s power and prevent him from doing aoe atk. After the using Power of Knowledge for the 1st time, use Call to the Valar and begin drainng power again. The boss will end up 0 power and wont be able to do any of his special moves.
I`ve done all of the 3 man new ins except the Fangorn tier 2 challenge with this setup : Guard/LM/LM. We LMs both use the wisp for some extra group heal, i go 2 red 3 healing blue and fast load. The other go all in dps with healer and Light of hope traited. Its a lot of fun

Sr for the bad english

Just did Pits and Dargnákh today with a hunter and guardian friend. Not that many problems on bosses with me as main healer. I tried using the limrafen for more heals and i worked. I also use traited inner heal, improved flanking, healer, light of hope as my healing traits.

Haven't tried fangorn as main healer yet but looking forward to it.

Originally Posted by Sealcow333

Lul, whoosh.

finally got an opportunity to re-confirm this and can confirm - power drain doesn't reduce bosses power (including the one in that screenshot). That particular boss has no ICPR and his power will get naturally drained as the fight goes on (from his induction attack), but power drain will not reduce boss power levels.

And if you don't believe me, I can post a before and after screenshot but it's easy enough to test yourself.

Oh, please do, with your trait window open so I can see Power and Wisdom with and without (thus 4 screenshots). Make sure you wait a little bit since the power level isn't updated in real time.

Originally Posted by Tatuaje

OK, sticking to your question of main healing with no other healer for 3 mans. I have not found a 3 man I cannot heal. While maybe not necessary, I will trait a mix of KoA and AM. If I am there to heal and support - that is what I do. The Champs, hunters, etx can be the real DPS. My book is geared towards healing.

I do not use the new glowy pet, I can't see a lot of healing from it, but I could be wrong. I prefer the eagle for self flank heals and the rez if it is needed. I have recently really gotten into playing the support role. Much more challanging and fun than mashing DPS buttons as MoNF. Mian issue I see with a main LM healer... Do not get behind, other than that, easy and fun.

Thank you much... so much for feedback everyone. Tatuaje - I am always glad to see a Loremaster really sink their teeth into our support role, over dps. It was our original artistry, so, really, I am glad to hear that you're enjoying that, and doing well on healing. I will be looking into a healing book once I am back to level cap.
I am very doubtful of our glowball's ability yet, but I am hopeful after hearing from Graal not to long ago. Eagle/raven flanking has been beyond adaquate currently.

Originally Posted by Ravanel

I did all new three-mans T2 Challenge yesterday with a group consisting of a captain, champion and lore-master. I didn't expect this, but the boss fights showed to be very easy all the time! They were pretty smooth runs overall. If anything, the trash was harder than the bosses (but, again, we didn't have any real problems).

[snipped experiences. I can't thank you enough atm Ravanel. Muchly appreciated.]

Overall, I'd say a champ can tank that boss quite well, as long as there's healing to some degree. I agree with you on this: I do have the feeling that LM as single healer would make the fight too tough. Captain and LM went great, LM + DPS RK with an occasional writs of health should work too and 2 LM + 2 limrafn... I don't see why that wouldn't work either.

I was of course doing this with two friends, so pugging it might be a different story. I do realize that 3-manning with a captain is not really LM 'main-healing', but thought I'd post it here anyway since there has been some talk about it. In the end, it was just great fun!

Yeah, from what I've experienced with captains. They are definitely very heal-capable, so I was trying to find out if LMs could be traited to be VERY heal-capable by themselves, without aid from other classes. My chances to have a total impossible pugroup, are possible (anythings possible with IF'r currently), but I'm not willing to throw in the towel at my first doubts. So I definitely am appreciating everyones' more challenging encounters.

Originally Posted by Mallordir

Just did Pits and Dargnákh today with a hunter and guardian friend. Not that many problems on bosses with me as main healer. I tried using the limrafen for more heals and i worked. I also use traited inner heal, improved flanking, healer, light of hope as my healing traits.

Haven't tried fangorn as main healer yet but looking forward to it.

It's encouraging. Thanks again everyone, and if you've got more harrowing (or not-so harrowing) LM-only-healing stories, please shares!

Originally Posted by Mallordir

Just did Pits and Dargnákh today with a hunter and guardian friend. Not that many problems on bosses with me as main healer. I tried using the limrafen for more heals and i worked. I also use traited inner heal, improved flanking, healer, light of hope as my healing traits.

Was that on T1 or T2?

That said, I believe it should be possible on both tiers with a guard, since they're extremely sturdy these days.

I (partially) take back my previous words about "champion-tank-no-LM-as-main-healer". I recently did all three 3-mans on T1 to complete the deeds with a warden, champion and me (LM). The warden obviously was tanking. Fangorn was the easiest of all, since we could just let the warden run around with all the mobs after him, spamming conviction. On Dargnákh I didn't use the mentioned power-trick: whether it works or not, I feel it's a bit of a cheat. Since I wasn't able to keep the warden on full morale all the time (as a healer class would've been able to do), I feel that fight really stands or fails with positioning/running away from the AoE attack in time. And since heavy armour classes are a lot sturdier these days and a warden could do it... who knows, champ and only LM healing might work there too. Actually, I think it would.

I was traited full AM or rainbow hybrid with the eagle for flanks. I didn't have Improved Flanking traited, as I swapped in my OD-set for flanks and BoH.

Mind you, this was all T1 though. I expect this to be much harder on T2 (on which my only LM-healer tries without guard did work together with a captain).

Originally Posted by Griffy

Griffy's wall-'o-text

Glad to hear you like what you read!

My LM is but a youngling, but I'll add to this thread that my Captain tanked both wings of Pits of Isengard T1 with a pair of Lore-masters. One traited healing, the other traited full DPS but used his Limrafn pet. Not only did it work, it was one of the smoothest Pits runs I've ever had.

Originally Posted by silverkelt

The last 3 man, Dargnakh is the hardest of the current 3 man stuff, and would be tough to do as a lm, with just a champ tanking. I would want a nice gaurd or a self healing wardy. Though two lms and a champ.. hmmmm. I wonder how that would go. .

I took my LM traited full KoA and Bog pet for this fight with Champ tanking and Cappy and we did very well. The Bog's flanks were consistently high, allowing me to pretty much spam flank heals to champ on air lore, sometimes back to back. Bog added a nice bit of his own dmg too since he was also buffed up and on lvl75 food. Legacies for Improved Inner Flame and for Beacon on book. Beacon heals went mostly to Cappy and used inner flame once.

Unquestioningly, in this set up Cappy buffs definitely helped, especially for my own morale pool (presently at 6k, buffed it went to 8k). I took a 5K hit from troll's pot shot once, but between flanks and a morale pot I was able to recover nicely. Without the buff I may not have even made it, hard to say. (I've taken hunter in this instance without Cappy and had same thing happen but the hit didn't take her hp down as far - forced to come close enough to AoE range to respond to cj however was another story... lol!). Biggest thing is this fight is if you aren't the tank, no matter your armor, just get the heck out of troll's AoE range entirely. If you manage to follow his lead up before he launches into it, it's a non issue. (We wiped here more than a few times in other group set ups we tried before getting this down).

In general tho, cappy/champ/LM works very well in most places. We have run several 3 mans now np. Champ/MoNF LM/KoA LM would also work well I think. Our champ has a LM and we have run some 3 mans together with a guard and burned stuff down so fast that it was fairly impressive even to me For LM healing in general tho, I find that for the flanks alone Raven, Eagle, or Bog is of way better use than light-bulb hands down if you trait all blues. Plus they add to dmg and support in ways which light-bulb simply cannot do.

I wanted to follow up in this thread. I have beefed up my book, I traited KoA, and the healing pet. Hit the Pits with a guard and a hunter. Healing was a breeze. I only had one death due to getting punted in the acid run and could not recover. The improved beacon and all the other healing type stuff isnpretty potent. We are still not minis or RKs, but if the LM does not get behind 3 mans are a breeze. Even Fanghorn was a breeze after the the other runs.

Tbh a lore master for healing need to improve beacon with hot ( bonus set )
ANd you can have a good helaing with bog-spam flank

Originally Posted by furtim

My LM is but a youngling, but I'll add to this thread that my Captain tanked both wings of Pits of Isengard T1 with a pair of Lore-masters. One traited healing, the other traited full DPS but used his Limrafn pet. Not only did it work, it was one of the smoothest Pits runs I've ever had.

Hey, I was one of the LMs on that run! Good to see you here! Let's run it again.

I did some healing in various 3mans, including a Dargnakh run (T1) with a guard and hunter, recently, and some duoing of 3mans (T1). Spec'ing 5yellow/2blue (healer, flank), eagle, force of will works way way better than most of the other setups I've tried. Possibly the most micromanage-intensive gameplay for the class.

The biggest issue I've run into, other than not having time to power drain, is the pet's durability! A lot of the time my beacon goes to the eagle (or raven) and it's less than ideal. I would love to have improved flanking also affect the pet, or have some other way to counter the damage that the birds take in melee ranged. This is not an issue with the limrafn, but that has positional issues and a one minute flank rate is insufficient for sure. Alternatively, I'd love a toggle for the birds that keeps them at range somehow, or recalls them faster, or I don't know - but a dead eagle/raven is a serious hit to healing rate, especially with eagle.

The only good flanker can be the bog at last. If he decide to stay ranged enought ...

The good point of the healing of a lore master is the stun and debuff, tank will take less damage and with one stunned you have the time for healing enought the group.
But tbh i think a dargnak t2 is impossible to do

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

The only good flanker can be the bog at last. If he decide to stay ranged enought ...

Yep, I'm not sure it balances the debuff decrease (esp fire lore) for bosses, which is a significant amount of healing saved. I have tried the fight traited blue (or rather, mix of y/b, no yellow capstone) once (not lurker - guess that's next) and it was very noticeable when fire lore drops and I couldn't heal to match it. I think T2 is possible*, but it will require a guard with significant health (~20k), and ideally a conjunction or two (so dropping stun immunity at an arranged time) and perfect timing (and a timer). I do think the fight in the middle / not using the pillars method would be doable though; a lot less damage is doled out. My biggest issue is definitely having the pet drop - even with recalling them preemptively they don't always respond fast enough.


edit: * VV Yep, I remembered someone mentioning that DU T2 was run with a guard. The guard I ran with (on T1) didn't have top of the line gear, but he was a good player, so I'd imagine this on T2 would be doable with an 18k+ geared guard in great gear. Or lots of luck running through Darg's AoE at the exact instant he says he's going to blow in a few secs. Lots of fun tbh. A guard or (even easier) captain tank is essential imo, sadly.

Anyone healed in a group without another offhealer when Darg was in the middle and everyone has to dps him down? Tempted to try this (since I still need the deed).

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

But tbh i think a dargnak t2 is impossible to do

I did it on t2 with a hunter and guardian. It was close but we did it.

Originally Posted by rhegan

I did some healing in various 3mans, including a Dargnakh run (T1) with a guard and hunter, recently, and some duoing of 3mans (T1). Spec'ing 5yellow/2blue (healer, flank), eagle, force of will works way way better than most of the other setups I've tried. Possibly the most micromanage-intensive gameplay for the class.

Totally agree. I think it's the best healing setup, too.

No Light of Hope? I find that interesting, thought it was one of the more useful blue traits along with Improved Flanking and Healer.

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

The only good flanker can be the bog at last. If he decide to stay ranged enought ...

Bog guardian has one of the worst flank rating if attacking from range.

Originally Posted by Ritenn

Bog guardian has one of the worst flank rating if attacking from range.

Originally Posted by Blastoise

No Light of Hope? I find that interesting, thought it was one of the more useful blue traits along with Improved Flanking and Healer.

I wondered about this too. Recall that Beacon of Hope has a 30 second cooldown. Assume that you have a base heal of 1000 morale, a 1 minute fight, and no inductions:

Your expected heals after 1 minute:

Untraited: 2000
Healer(+10% heal): 2200
LoH(-10s cd): 3000
LoH+Healer: 3,300

Thus, Light of Hope gives you roughly 36% more heals than Healer. This is because LoH gives you 3 heals per minute, which more than makes up for the 10% bonus from Healer (and obviously both traits is better than individual traits).

In long fights that lasts 5 minutes (e.g. Dargnakh), LoH alone will heal 15000 morale. I was surprised to see that LoH+Healer would yield only 16,500. So ignoring the other bonuses (e.g. induction time), Healer provides only an extra 1,500 morale. This raises the question whether the slot might be better used on another trait, but again, all this will depend on what else you want to do. Also, Healer does add to power-sharing, whereas LoH does not.