Thread: Dissapointed with the New Instances

I just want to say I've been doing the new 3-man instances pretty steady for the past couple of days and over-all I don't like them much.

Fangorn was visually impressive, especially at the begining with the view of Orthanc, but what ever quality my sight-seeing added quickly dissapated after me and everyone else got one-shotted by a troll with a tree.

Instant death moves are ########. They don't add challenge. They just make your game dumb.

The rest of this instance was pretty bland. Not much strategy was needed. Just a lot of simple, mindless killing which reminded me of games like World of Warcraft, where the only real challenge is basically just trying not to get lost in all the craziness while tons of different targets flood your screen.

A very similiar result for the Pits as well. While at the beginning very cool to look at, with the windows glowing in the darkness - it too was just a lot of mindless pulls at the beginning.

And then Turbine really screwed up with me. They didn't have instant kills - but they had something even worst. And another horrible flash back from World of Warcraft enters my mind - where for some strange reason developers think it's cool to have your character bounce around the screen over and over everytime the monster hits you.

It's just annoying, and there is nothing fun about it. Making your character bounce around while you are trying to fight something just irritates the player. It brings NOTHING of worth to any game-play experience except annoying the #### out of someone. And the first thing I say after everytime I do this fight isn't ..."that was fun" or "cool fight". Nope. It's "that was annoying".

Then there was the last instance I did. Most of the challenges at the beginning were also World of Warcraftish - and I"m not a fan of the ballista or blowing up the barrels segment. The fight against the Wizards is actaully well done - and is probably the most fun of the new fights I've done so far, so I have no beef with that one at least. But the troll at the end....that is another story.

I have had enough of mega moves that almost one shot everyone so you have to constantly run here and there to avoid it. I put up with this on World of Warcraft for years, and always thought it lame and much prefered the challenge of fights to revolve around skillfully using and managing your abilities. That was always one of the main reasons I preferred this game over other games like World of Warcraft. It's sad to see this game going down that same path. If i want to play an action game where I'm expected to constantly test my reflexes and run around dodging stuff I'll go play a platformer game. When I sit down to play an MMORPG, I'm not looking for that kind of gameplay.

Now before anyone starts flaming me and says I'm just pissed off that I died, let me point out I beat all of these instances with my usual group of friends on my first try, so it's not the case I'm just upset I lost and am venting. I just miss the old days of instances like Garth Argawen and Carn Durm. They had so much more depth and quality to them, and didn't rely on simple gimmics like instant-death kills, bouncing your character around, or cheap hard to dodge AoEs that do mega damage to make their dungeons challenging.

There is fun challenge. Then there is annoying challenge. A lot of this new content falls into the latter if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I just want to say I've been doing the new 3-man instances pretty steady for the past couple of days and over-all I don't like them much.

Fangorn was visually impressive, especially at the begining with the view of Orthanc, but what ever quality my sight-seeing added quickly dissapated after me and everyone else got one-shotted by a troll with a tree.

Instant death moves are ########. They don't add challenge. They just make your game dumb.

The rest of this instance was pretty bland. Not much strategy was needed. Just a lot of simple, mindless killing which reminded me of games like World of Warcraft, where the only real challenge is basically just trying not to get lost in all the craziness while tons of different targets flood your screen.

A very similiar result for the Pits as well. While at the beginning very cool to look at, with the windows glowing in the darkness - it too was just a lot of mindless pulls at the beginning.

And then Turbine really screwed up with me. They didn't have instant kills - but they had something even worst. And another horrible flash back from World of Warcraft enters my mind - where for some strange reason developers think it's cool to have your character bounce around the screen over and over everytime the monster hits you.

It's just annoying, and there is nothing fun about it. Making your character bounce around while you are trying to fight something just irritates the player. It brings NOTHING of worth to any game-play experience except annoying the #### out of someone. And the first thing I say after everytime I do this fight isn't ..."that was fun" or "cool fight". Nope. It's "that was annoying".

Then there was the last instance I did. Most of the challenges at the beginning were also World of Warcraftish - and I"m not a fan of the ballista or blowing up the barrels segment. The fight against the Wizards is actaully well done - and is probably the most fun of the new fights I've done so far, so I have no beef with that one at least. But the troll at the end....that is another story.

I have had enough of mega moves that almost one shot everyone so you have to constantly run here and there to avoid it. I put up with this on World of Warcraft for years, and always thought it lame and much prefered the challenge of fights to revolve around skillfully using and managing your abilities. That was always one of the main reasons I preferred this game over other games like World of Warcraft. It's sad to see this game going down that same path. If i want to play an action game where I'm expected to constantly test my reflexes and dodge stuff I'll go play a platformer game. When I sit down to play an MMORPG, I'm not looking for that kind of gameplay.

Now before anyone starts flaming me and says I'm just pissed off that I died, let me point out I beat all of these instances with my usual group of friends on my first try, so it's not the case I'm just upset I lost and am venting. I just miss the old days of instances like Garth Argawen and Carn Durm. They had so much more depth and quality to them, and didn't rely on simple gimmics like instant-death kills, bouncing your character around, or cheap hard to dodge AoEs that do mega damage to make their dungeons challenging.

There is fun challenge. Then there is annoying challenge. A lot of this new content falls into the latter if you ask me.

I totally agree - i've tried both sides of the pits and it just stupid. On the fire side the mobs pull or kick you into the lava (instant death) and on the poison side the boss at the end contantly punts you around the room. One time he punted me through the door when we only had 40k of his health left and it reset the fight. Very annoying. Its bad enough in dunland you get stunned every 5 seconds, now you feel like a football.

Mac

Sadly, being with the game from the very beginning, and seeing a range of methods, strategies and good ol' challenges being focused on by turbine, providing an interesting visual and intellectual element to the game. I have to say that i was devastated when Warner brothers brought out turbine, knowing then, that the soul therein was forever removed, and a highly commercialised approach would ensue.

I am not saying anything directly bad about Warner Bros, they have to make a buck too, but it is the inevitable when a conglomerate takes over. Some changes have been nice, but others worth every penny i did not pay for them.

Does anyone ask the consumer any more, or do we just have it shoved at us?

"Sometimes Granny Mays Marmalade is better than Rosella's Grapefruit Jam"

I think we're starting to see some of the DDO content bleeding over into LotRO....

Have a look at the Titan Raid in DDO, then compare it what you're doing with Dargnakh.

I think most of us would be shocked by the similarities.

I actually like Fangorn and Dargnakh, they are fun to play. Dont like Pits at all, looks too generic for me. The Foundry is ok, the last fight on T2 challenge is actually very funny, at least as a healer. What I dont like about The Foundry is that it looks too much like HoC and Forges.

If I would rate them, then I would give
Pits 2/5
Fangorn 4/5
Dargnakh 4/5
Foundry 4/5

Didnt finish the new raid yet, so wont rate it, but so far looks good. Not "zomg sooo coooool", but Ok.

Originally Posted by Chupakabara

I actually like Fangorn and Dargnakh, they are fun to play. Dont like Pits at all, looks too generic for me. The Foundry is ok, the last fight on T2 challenge is actually very funny, at least as a healer. What I dont like about The Foundry is that it looks too much like HoC and Forges.

If I would rate them, then I would give
Pits 2/5
Fangorn 4/5
Dargnakh 4/5
Foundry 4/5

Didnt finish the new raid yet, so wont rate it, but so far looks good. Not "zomg sooo coooool", but Ok.

Similar opinion.

Pits is just stupid with all the pulls and punts and instant death lava and pools all within narrow and tight spaces.

Dargnakh I really like. The starting cutscene is always hilarious, and all the interactions with environmental objects is just a nice change from the usual tank and spank. The challenge mode is just about right in terms of difficulty.

Fangorn I really like as well. Getting one-shotted by the trolls and getting some deed done at the same time is hilarious. The final fight where everything goes havoc is also an interesting mechanic. Apart from the infamous Golodir, I don't think we have many other instances with hostile escort NPCs that we have to keep alive.

Foundry is ok. It feels like Sammath Gul V2 with a smattering of boss mechanics we've already seen elsewhere mostly.

We did some wings of the raid, and so far it feels ok-ish too.

Mostly, my main complaint is that the amount of seals and sigils needed for anything is a major turn off, and at this point, especially with so many other games to choose from, and with the knowledge that all my efforts will become nullify by next update anyway, I just don't feel very inclined to play these instances anymore after beating the challenge modes for the first few times.

I'm also disappointed with the new instances & the new raid.
It seems the developers have hit a virtual wall when it comes to new content, i can't help but think i've seen this all before but in a different room/area with a different mob.

Once again we are presented with endless trash pulls, pointless & repetitive debuffs, DPS race boss fights and over the top CC fests.

Bar the exception of some pieces from the raid & the odd piece from the instances, loot is also disappointing - it feels like we're taking a step back instead of forward.

The Developers can make as many Dev diaries as they want regarding new game mechanics, but when faced with working content out, such is your lack of faith you're not sure if what you've just encountered is working as intended or indeed bugged, and believe me i am fed up of logging bug reports


*Also, bring back the 1 off barter items for Raid bosses (Chest barter piece = chest item) this whole mark, medallion, seal thing really sucks.

Only did Forges and Dargnakh so far, but I really liked them.

I must admit I haven't done all the old instances in LotrO and played no other MMO's so many things seem new to me.

Guiding the troll around in Dargnakh was really fun. Love the concept and the way they did it.
Novelty of this might wear of soon. Can't say yet.

I liked the Forges as well. Some fun little mechanics in there.
Love the room with the steam, lava and levers to dump stuff on the boss.

As a hunter I'm used to standing still and killing stuff most of the time.
Actually manoeuvring is new and fun for me.

Guess I'm just easily pleased. Good for me

Reading this thread just goes to remind me that some people will never be happy. It doesn't matter what they do, you will never be satisfied.

Yes some things are annoying, such as the constant stuns and being tossed around everywhere all the dumb time. Those are valid complaints. But saying that there is nothing creative about these instances is either naive or ignorant. The instance designs overall are pretty good. There implementations aren't always up to where they should be, but these have different elements than other content in this game which is a good thing.

New instances rock, yall fail.

I go for funny Fangorn and Dragnak too.

Pits is boring actually because it didn't bring anything new, just the classic boring pulls and boss. Bosses have a trick but not much apart from tank and spank. I actually found very annoying the amount of adds Zaburz has and those exploding things in Ironarm.

My thoughts:

Pit: Mix between HoC and DN. The first boss bugged on me last night, we got the chest but the boss respawned. Lukily we could loot the chest and move on to the Fire boss. The scorpion like "get over here" mobs were a little annoying but placement is enough to minimize those issue. The poison boss was challenging because I don't think I fully understand his mechanics. You have the bushes he puts on his arms and he drops clouds that produce limphrans. Took awhile to beat, but was OK. We also had the reset issue with him when moving him from a cloud. All and all, pretty fun. Turbine still seems to have issues of quests not updating when you kill a boss. End of instance we'd down all of the bosses but my non-challenge quest still said I had to beat the fire boss. Also very long runs to get back in the fight for a healer if you get pulled into a lava pool...very HoC like (the running part).

3.5/5 buggy but OK

Dragnak: I really enjoyed this instance. Moving the troll around the level is a good mechanic. The wizard boss was fun, hopefully you have some interrupters with you. The last fight in t2 CM was fun, but is a two man affair. The third should either help heal or just stay out of the way.

5/5 Loved it.

Fangorn: Really well done visuals and backgrounds. I liked the mechanic of sneaking around the mobs train. My first instinct was to just start pulling everything the moment I walked in. Getting the one-shot deed was funny. I haven't finished CM or the boss on T2 yet. Wiped many times attempting it. I'm just missing something on the last fight to get past the hump. I like a challenge so I'm glad I wasn't able to t2 CM all of the instances on my first attempt. (Feel free to call me a noob for not getting it done yet).

5/5 Still working on it.

Haven't been to foundry yet or raid.

I'm just glad we have new stuff to run. Draigoch and skraids weren't cutting it for me.

They do deserve some credit for making nearly everything associated with Orthanc "visually impressive." When RoI came out I took a lot of screenshots around the tower, the machinery, down in the pits, Quickbeam's grove, etc. Draigoch's lair is a nice nod to Smaug's hoard, and he has suitably awesome animations. The new instances continue to make for some nice screenshots and set pieces for boss fights. The "White Hand" forge in the Foundry is especially cool-looking.

There are some new gameplay elements that are interesting. New FMs in Draigoch is a neat addition, the U5 changes made the fight length more bearable, and I like the loot there. The white troll and the ents seem pretty neat thematically, I don't mind the positioning requirements of Foundary (except when I'm lagging badly), but some of the mechanics they've been using for difficulty (stuns, punts, instakills, puddles) do seem a bit overdone.

I just miss the old days of instances like Garth Argawen and Carn Durm. They had so much more depth and quality to them, and didn't rely on simple gimmics like instant-death kills, bouncing your character around, or cheap hard to dodge AoEs that do mega damage to make their dungeons challenging.

Like the knockback from the Red Maid or Mordirith or the green water in Barashal and Helchgam or the lava in Mordirith or Gnawing bones from Barz or the 300% melee buff aura if you don't interrupt the slave masters in the Rift or Lughrien blowing you off a cliff or the insta-kill eyes in Helegrod or the insta-kill skill "Execute" on Zurm or the multiple insta-kill skills in Udunion or Baleful Roar, 20 diseases, or killer poison from Thaurlach or the killer wound from the Everseer...

The things you are complaining about aren't new, and aren't mutually exclusive from depth and quality. It sucks if you aren't able to react and move quickly for whatever reason (disability, lag, hot dog fingers), but that's part of the game--or at least part of most any instance in LOTRO, new or old.

At least the 1-shotting trolls give you a deed completion, a reward, and a hint that you MAY just want to skip all those pathing mobs.

Originally Posted by Frisco

Like the knockback from the Red Maid or Mordirith or the green water in Barashal and Helchgam or the lava in Mordirith or Gnawing bones from Barz or the 300% melee buff aura if you don't interrupt the slave masters in the Rift or Lughrien blowing you off a cliff or the insta-kill eyes in Helegrod or the insta-kill skill "Execute" on Zurm or the multiple insta-kill skills in Udunion or Baleful Roar, 20 diseases, or killer poison from Thaurlach or the killer wound from the Everseer...

I was thinking the same thing, but it wasn't worth writing up a post for me. +rep

I've been playing since 2007, and I completely disagree... about the 3 mans. I thought on tier 2 they were pretty challenging and fun, maybe the new mechanics weren't much different from old instances but still... Fangorn definitely takes some strategy. You can't just randomly choose to kill any mob in it if you want challenge... the trees or ents will definitely die. Avoiding the trolls and stuff is fun, and pretty easy. Pits was great, you need to position yourself correctly to not get thrown in lava and you have to be on your feet to make sure trolls don't get buffed by the thorn bushes. Boss fights in there weren't hard, I like the idea of having debuffs that give you something but take away from something else. Dargnakh was alright, the 2nd mechanic of the fight kind of stinks because you can get all the NPC aggro if they spawn on you. The last boss fight is a tanking fight which isn't bad but restricts the group make up a bit.

6 man was ok, could've been much better. Felt exactly like HoC, especially the easy-factor. The first boss isn't bad, but is probably more difficult than the 2nd boss and as difficult as the last boss. 2nd boss is a joke, avoiding his throw is so easy and he does very little damage (the mini accidentally died on the first run and I could solo heal it). 3rd boss is really a joke and nothing special about it, just a DPS race.

Haven't tried the raid, but I've heard it's pretty good.

I think this is a major case of rose-coloured glasses. First of all, older content (as helpfully outlined above) did have heaps of one shot mechanics and 'gimmicks' in it. Yes, there were tank and spank fights (fornost and large parts of urugath) but quite frankly these are often pretty boring and forgettable fights.

But the biggest difference imo, and what gave carn dum and urugath its overrated "epic" quality, is that the boss fights were interspersed with waves and waves and waves of largely identical, boring, trash fights which seems to have had the sole purpose of wasting your time. Yes, there was the occasional interesting trash encounter (the pale folk platform just inside the ornate gate in Carn Dum comes to mind) but by and large it's just mind numingly boring waves of trash. Go into carn dum to kill Barashal if you don't believe me. Nowdays, trash has been massively reduced and often the encounters require some sort of strategy.

Another thing to consider is that the 3-man fights particularly are a bit more gimmiky by design because this gives greater flexibility in class makeup. The more 'avoidable by movement/strategy' damage the is in an instance, the less hard the requirement for a strict tank/dps/healer combo is. Success comes down to individual player execution, not healing throughput and tank mitigation.

Originally Posted by Frisco

Like the knockback from the Red Maid or Mordirith or the green water in Barashal and Helchgam or the lava in Mordirith or Gnawing bones from Barz or the 300% melee buff aura if you don't interrupt the slave masters in the Rift or Lughrien blowing you off a cliff or the insta-kill eyes in Helegrod or the insta-kill skill "Execute" on Zurm or the multiple insta-kill skills in Udunion or Baleful Roar, 20 diseases, or killer poison from Thaurlach or the killer wound from the Everseer...

The things you are complaining about aren't new, and aren't mutually exclusive from depth and quality. It sucks if you aren't able to react and move quickly for whatever reason (disability, lag, hot dog fingers), but that's part of the game--or at least part of most any instance in LOTRO, new or old.

At least the 1-shotting trolls give you a deed completion, a reward, and a hint that you MAY just want to skip all those pathing mobs.

I mentioned Carn Dum and Garth Argawen as examples of well done instances. Most of the examples you mentioned aren't in either of these places. So a lot of your post is really beside my point and irrelevant as a response to mine.

The Green Water in Carn Dum was a little harsh, but it was only really a part of a boss mechanic during Helcham, and I don't remember any stupid knock back occuring, and if it did it was deffinitley not every 2 seconds. The lava during Mordirith wasn't that bad either, and compares in no way to the constant and annoying knock backs that occur in a lot of these newer fights. So if you had problems falling into the green water or avoiding lava on Mordirith, I would say you are the one with hotdog fingers or perhaps some kind of disability

Fact remains that dealing with being punted aroun dthe room is actually the main challenge in a lot of these new and pathetically designed instances. That was not the case in the instances I mentioned. W/e dangers in the environment there was, they were always easily managble with a reasonable amount of effort, unlike these current instances where it just annoys the living #### out of you.

Who cares if they make it a deed or not. I'd say making it a deed to get 1-shotted by a troll actually makes it more stupid, but w/e...

Also, having to interrupt a move isn't what I'd call gimmicky game-play. That is actually use of your's character's abilities to counter a monster's abilitiy - so I have no problem with that. So not only are most of your examples unrelated to anything I've said, but you don't understand what I mean when I call something gimmicky game-play - because interrupting dangerous moves with your character is an example of what I would actually call solid gameplay. Having to die over and over however to learn some cheesey mechanic is not. This game is becoming more and more like World of Warcraft, and it's very sad to watch.

In fact if you want a cartoony battles system where you get bounced around the screen all the time and instant killed you SHOULD go play World of Warcraft. That game would be right up your alley if that's the case, and without all the bugs and lag. I do wish they would keep Lord of the Rings for the more mature players however, people who actually prefer quality game-play that centers around using your abilities and not trying to make sense out of a chaotic mess. I believe most of us (now i could be wrong) do not like a lot of this new stuff.

Now if i'm in the minority on this so be it. But I really do think a lot of these new fights are just dumb beyond belief, and feel even I could design more interesting and fun boss battles. That's how bad they are in my eyes. When I sit down to play a video game after a long day I just want to relax and have fun - not be annoyed to death.

Originally Posted by Spacmanbobr

I've been playing since 2007, and I completely disagree... about the 3 mans. I thought on tier 2 they were pretty challenging and fun, maybe the new mechanics weren't much different from old instances but still... Fangorn definitely takes some strategy. You can't just randomly choose to kill any mob in it if you want challenge... the trees or ents will definitely die. Avoiding the trolls and stuff is fun, and pretty easy. Pits was great, you need to position yourself correctly to not get thrown in lava and you have to be on your feet to make sure trolls don't get buffed by the thorn bushes. Boss fights in there weren't hard, I like the idea of having debuffs that give you something but take away from something else. Dargnakh was alright, the 2nd mechanic of the fight kind of stinks because you can get all the NPC aggro if they spawn on you. The last boss fight is a tanking fight which isn't bad but restricts the group make up a bit.

6 man was ok, could've been much better. Felt exactly like HoC, especially the easy-factor. The first boss isn't bad, but is probably more difficult than the 2nd boss and as difficult as the last boss. 2nd boss is a joke, avoiding his throw is so easy and he does very little damage (the mini accidentally died on the first run and I could solo heal it). 3rd boss is really a joke and nothing special about it, just a DPS race.

Haven't tried the raid, but I've heard it's pretty good.

Well I'm glad you have so much fun being bounced up and down all the time. Maybe you should buy a yoyo instead though, would be cheaper and there is no monthly fee

Originally Posted by Rawlor

Reading this thread just goes to remind me that some people will never be happy. It doesn't matter what they do, you will never be satisfied.

Yes some things are annoying, such as the constant stuns and being tossed around everywhere all the dumb time. Those are valid complaints. But saying that there is nothing creative about these instances is either naive or ignorant. The instance designs overall are pretty good. There implementations aren't always up to where they should be, but these have different elements than other content in this game which is a good thing.

Visually some of the instances were creative, though even if I found nothing creative about them why on earth would that make me or someone else naive and ignorant? lol...

The gameplay however was not, and very little emphasis was put on what I like to call the meat and potatoes of a game, being the actual playing of your class.

Most of the challenge comes from dealing with grossly repeated knock-back effects and positioning, NONE of which is remotely creative and has been done ad nauseam on other games. So I would dare say if you found the mechanics of these fights creative it may be you who is naive or ignorant, because trust me, there is nothing here that hasn't been done before.

Bottom Line:
There are some visual gems inside these new Instances, but they are short-lived and don't make up for the annoying mechanics. A lot of it is just trial and error garbage with cheap gimmicks thrown in to kill people and create the illusion of challenge.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I mentioned Carn Dum and Garth Argawen as examples of well done instances. Most of the examples you mentioned aren't in either of these places. So a lot of your post is really beside my point and irrelevant as a response to mine.

His reply was an excellent rebuttal or your basic premise; which is that these new instances have annoying gimmicks which the 'good old days' didn't.

I like the instances, they're challenging enough on T2, but the 1 thing I hate too, is all the knockbacks/forwards. It's not challenging, or fun, or anything but annoying. Hopefully they can scale it back a bit..

Overall, very nice cluster.

I do see 2 majors problems:

1) The fire wing of the Pits = really?
2) The 6-man being way easier than the 3-man t2.

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

His reply was an excellent rebuttal or your basic premise; which is that these new instances have annoying gimmicks which the 'good old days' didn't.

No. It wasn't.

If you are going to refute my premis you have to actually comment on my premis, and not a make believe-one you concocted on my behalf.

I never said all the older instances were good. I named a couple I thought were, and countered all of his points relating to the ones I actually did name.

There are quite a few of the older instances I've never done, so some may have sucked, I can't say. But I can tell you out of the ones I did do - there was never anything even approaching the vast annoyance of these new fights where you are literally bounced around the room like a rag-doll nearly the entire fight. And trying to compare the lava on the Mordirith fight (which was a really fun and epic fight btw) to this new #### is almost heresy as far as I'm concerned. They are nothing alike - and if that's your idea of an excellent rebuttal, I hope to God you are not a lawyer.

Bottom line, the older content I mentioned was fun. A lot of this newer stuff is just plain annoying.

Mordirith is a fight I actually return to now and then with friends just for the sheer fun of doing it again. You deffinitely won't be seeing me doing this with a lot of these stupid fights I can promise you that.

When people were complaining about Stunland on the forum, there were some optimistic folks hoping that the devs would listen to the feedback about how stuns and cheesy tactics are almost universally despised. What a surprise that we have an instance cluster that adopts these lame tactics to the max. Knockback into pits. Pull flying into lava. Punted into glowing wall for insta-death. Punt, doubt punt forced to use unstuck and often bugging a boss. Never have I seen so much ABUSE with knockback than these new instances. Enough already. Seriously. Keep using the same lame and cheesy tactic doesn't make your game look clever. It makes you look lazy and uninspired.

Can't say instances are all bad as it'd be overreacting but they do have just plain stupid mechanics like:

pulling players - this seems to be completely random, can happen 2-3 times in a row and ending up in lava or below with broken legs is common occurrence as there is nothing You can do except luck or just skipping some mobs in more hazardous places. Hardly a thing I'd call fun or tactical. Seems like someone thought that it'd be a nice change from knockback mobs, but never actually seen how it works.

orc/troll highway - was fun dieing, waiting for 1st time, somewhat fun 2nd time but I know I'll be actually annoyed after 5th time - Oh look my pet aggroed troll...here goes wipe...

1 shot mechanics - as long as they aren't something random or bothersome it's okay. Being pulled into lava cause AI goblin had few beers and can't aim straight is again frustrating.

orc/troll highway - was fun dieing, waiting for 1st time, somewhat fun 2nd time but I know I'll be actually annoyed after 5th time - Oh look my pet aggroed troll...here goes wipe...

Exactly. It's a nice mechanic, the first few times, but I can see it getting tedious pretty fast. It'd be better if we had a choice of tactics. Drop the highway mobs down to level 76 and the trolls to elite, then let people decide whether they want to fight their way across, or dodge the traffic.

One shot kills are fine, so long as they are avoidable, and don't feel arbitrary. Getting killed by sheer bad luck, with nothing that can be done about it, might be amusing if you're in the right mood, but in the long run it's simply annoying.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

And trying to compare the lava on the Mordirith fight (which was a really fun and epic fight btw) to this new #### is almost heresy as far as I'm concerned. They are nothing alike - and if that's your idea of an excellent rebuttal, I hope to God you are not a lawyer.

Bottom line, the older content I mentioned was fun. A lot of this newer stuff is just plain annoying.

Mordirith is a fight I actually return to now and then with friends just for the sheer fun of doing it again. You deffinitely won't be seeing me doing this with a lot of these stupid fights I can promise you that.

So your main point is that you want all the new instances to be exactly like a small portion of SoA content that you liked.

I'll give you GA. Aside from the stupid knockback on the Red Maid and the tree (which you conveniently don't mention), I don't remember much. Probably because I ran GA on my main character in 2007 and never returned, it was so boring. What is fun for you was a ghost town for most of 4.5 years until they added Eglain Rep.

Carn Dum--well, half a dozen of the things I mentioned were from CD and you apparently didn't realize it. And why are you focusing on the instant-kill lava in the Mordirith fight rather than the CONSTANT KNOCKBACK that he and the trolls and the giants do? You know, since you're complaining about needless knockbacks in the new instances. And ignoring the random token wipes? That wasn't gimmicky at all!

2 instances in all of SoA you liked. One was so boring nobody ever did it, and the other you have selective memory and have totally omitted the annoying gimmicks.

And trying to compare the lava on the Mordirith fight (which was a really fun and epic fight btw) to this new #### is almost heresy as far as I'm concerned. They are nothing alike - and if that's your idea of an excellent rebuttal, I hope to God you are not a lawyer.

As someone who didn't even do most of the SoA instances, I don't think you should get to say what is and what isn't heresy. Sounds like you ran Mordirith and just stood with your back in the corner by the door to avoid the lava mechanic, if you didn't think it was a problem. If standing in a tiny corner with 5 other dudes and just tank-and-spanking is "epic" for you, I can totally see why you haven't taken to the new instances.

I was in one of the first groups on the largest server to kill Mordirith 1.0 and get my Phial of Swirling Waters...back when he would full-heal about 3 times and AoE Golodir (your aggro-stealing NPC guide who you had to keep alive). We thought he was annoying back then, and he still is. Hope wipes (recent addition), knockbacks, threat wipes, full heals...a whole lot of fun, and a whole lot of "gimmicks". Then groups learned of the "avoid the mechanics but not an exploit" method of standing in the corner, and it was just another boring way to finish a deed and watch some pug hunter win a Berghelm.

Most of the rest of the things I mentioned were from the Rift, far and away the most popular and fun encounter Turbine has created to date. But you wouldn't have liked it--too gimmicky.

The Green Water in Carn Dum was a little harsh, but it was only really a part of a boss mechanic during Helcham, and I don't remember any stupid knock back occuring, and if it did it was deffinitley not every 2 seconds.

Maybe your selective memory has erased the troll boss--Barashal--and the trolls along the way to him who would constantly knock back, bouncing you off walls and into insta-death green water.

And the roots on Helchgam's pillars that could drag you down with it if you were unlucky.

The most fun fight for me was the most gimmicky, as you would describe it--Gurthul when each member of the fellowship had to go into a separate cage and fight what was in there. Luckily for the people who don't like to move while they game, they turned it into a tank-and-spank where you just sit and press buttons for 5 minutes and win loot.

Also, having to interrupt a move isn't what I'd call gimmicky game-play. That is actually use of your's character's abilities to counter a monster's abilitiy - so I have no problem with that.

Your character has the ability to both walk and run, correct? So why is using THAT skill to avoid a massive scripted AoE gimmicky?

Seriously, just because standstill Tank-n-Spank is the most fun for you doesn't mean it's enjoyable for most people.

Originally Posted by Rawlor

Reading this thread just goes to remind me that some people will never be happy. It doesn't matter what they do, you will never be satisfied.

Absolutely, posts like this will always pop up from people who feel like they need to hate everything. Some people hope for failure and look for any chance to vindicate themselves. Any chance the OP may not actually know all the new mechanics within the first couple days of it coming out?

The major complaint I had about Pits -- insane knockbacks with Ironarm -- are avoidable if you figure out certain mechanics. It's my least favorite fight of all the new stuff, but much more fun once I figured that out. As for the pulls/knockbacks into in the Fire wing, give me a break. Every single pull has ample room to fight the mobs away from the fire where you would have no chance to get pulled into it. Figure out the mechanics before you bash something you don't understand.

You should also never be in combat with a 1-shotting troll in Fangorn (unless you want a nice deed!). Again, if you're rating these instances based on mechanics that you don't know how to get around, you're not giving a fair and accurate assessment.

Grading the raid is just laughable at this point, if anything you've only had a chance to clear it on T1 and I think most of the fights (minus Acid) are very dynamic and enjoyable.

I love the new instances and I have no effing idea what some of you whiney negative people are talking about at all. Also I'm not a fanboy, on the contrary.

*Looks are awesome and every time I see something new that looks great. Fangorn looks very alive, Dargnakh kicks ###, and the Pit's two wings just ooze with atmosphere.
*Game mechanics are great for the most part, there are several different ways you can accomplish the challenges, there is absolutely nothing generic about Fangorn, you have to do a little Frogger or you'll get nuked, the last fight with the trees and trolls has a great mechanic that you will acknowledge when you've completed t2hm. Ironarm in the Pit is also a great fight, it's very tricky to position everything correctly, etc etc etc. I also love that theyve added some challenges-with-a-twist in Fangorn, which are quite interesting on themselves, especially the clear cutter deed. This keeps things interesting!~
*Rewards seem good, lots of nice loot I can put on the kin AH for people's alts and stuff, lots of nice blueys that we can use, etc etc.

They are also very well-balanced. Eg. in Mirkwood, DoDG was, although very cool, very hard and unforgiving for randoms, so people skipped it and went for the easy SH. Now, I don't see myself doing -anything- like that at all, which is great.

It's so easy to get caught up in being annoyed at things that aren't even annoying if you just take a moment to relax and being generally negative about something because you read too much of the forums or whatever, it's just a negative spiral. I think it's caused by some very annoying non-related issues with Turbine and things like the lotro store and marketing ploys that are ####. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: just a -random- example; when I was typing this, I just finished Fangorn, and I noticed the three Ents were standing together, which was cool, made me take a screenie, something I normally don't do a lot, made me smile.

Originally Posted by Neen_Eldar

*Also, bring back the 1 off barter items for Raid bosses (Chest barter piece = chest item) this whole mark, medallion, seal thing really sucks.

NO.
Please don't.


It's one of the few things i really, really like of this update.

Couldn't agree more. I absolutely hate being pushed by every mob towards or away from him. Especially when that move does 3k damage and you land into another 2k AoE hit... Sometimes you get pulled twice in row, so that's like an instant death. Now the best idea was to put the mob on this iron-island with lava all around it, so as soon as you charge at him, you get kicked in lava and die. Really?!?!

I have been having a great with the new instances. I have only been doing the 3mans but I am much happier with these. They are not as dark as Library. (I stopped doing that one since I HATED killing the pale-folk....it didn't fit with Lord of the Rings) I do dislike some of the achievements that make you feel... less than heroic. Such as letting the Rohirrim die..as well as the ents but you don't have to do those!
But all things considered, I am quite pleased!

I think the instances are too difficult for many casual players.
There shouldn't be instant death effects on tier 1. Casual players who are only doing the instances for the quests should be able to get through if they join through the instance finder. In Fangorn, it should be possible to fight through the path on tier I. Dargnakh should be beatable without having to dodge out of range of instant death effects.

I don't have a problem with tier II having instant death effects. Tier II(or even tier III) should cater to the hardcore players who like a challenge.
Instanced content has generally been more difficult than a lot of quest oriented players are capable of completing on level though, which is something I see as a problem. If they want to sell the content in the store, they should do more to make it attractive to potential customers. I'm one who would have only bought the quest pack if I'd got the expansion through the store. While I've completed a large proportion of the previous instanced content, including T2 challenge quests, it's not really a priority...partly due to the difficulty. There will be little incentive for me to unlock future instanced content if Turbine continue on this path.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Fangorn was visually impressive, especially at the begining with the view of Orthanc, but what ever quality my sight-seeing added quickly dissapated after me and everyone else got one-shotted by a troll with a tree.

Just on the trolls in Fangorn ... you don't need to fight any trolls until the final fight and those don't do the monster 1-shot attack. You shouldn't be fighting any mobs on the 2-lane pathway at all. When you get hit with a 24k attack it's a pretty good clue that those aren't mobs you're supposed to fight. You even get a deed to let you know you've made a mistake.

About Dargnakh:

as much as I understand from the last part vs. Dargnakh is that it is a pure tanking event; the tank has to position Dargnakh under each of the 4 corners, so that when the rage fit starts, a part of the roof collapses and sunlight may enter, the healer heals at maximum range to evade death by massive damage.

The first two times I did this as a champ, together with a minstrel and a guard.
In that part of the fight I didnt find anything useful to do actually, since I cant heal, and the guard can tank better than a champ (except wait for the guard to fail, and try to grab aggro).

Does anyone know if there is something for me to do, except stand at range and wait? any damage i do seems to be useless, since the morale counter doesnt drop? Does dealing massive damage perhaps reduce the cooldown til the next rage?


Yesterday's run was more fun actually, with me tanking (3r4y traited), a captain and a loremaster...

I watching at new instnces at tier 2 (mainly i speaking about raid, and exept Dar of course) and have only one though in head. Is everything in nova days must be a dps race?

Come, lets take adaptetion buff. In summary it means dps everything quick, couse each of mob you can mezz only onse...
Serioussly... I am dissapointed also.