Tried this instance as a 3 man fellowship last night. I thought it was pretty fun but we had some trouble when we got to the final boss. Of course, we were getting pretty tired by this point but I'm wondering if anyone that has completed it successfully can give some pointers as to how to kick his fanny at the end? He had a powerful attack that made the ceiling crumble and we lost our lives fairly quickly when he did that. We did better trying to range him but still weren't successful.
Our group was comprised of a Loremaster, Runekeeper and Champion. I tried spamming interrupts which seemed to help a bit but wasn't entirely successful. Tried kiting him around but his arms were long enough to continue wacking me. LOL. Any bits of advice you can offer will be appreciated as I would like to try this instance again.
FYI- good job Turbine on providing a cool instance with lots of 'puzzles' to figure out. Me and my friends had a blast in here even though we finally threw in the towel at the end. :-)
You mean the very last room where the challenge is to crumble the supports? Not sure what advice I can give there really. The tank holds him under each of the supports in turn, waiting for him to do his pound AOE. When he gets a buff on his bar everyone who was anywhere near him backs well away. He'll pound down the overhang on his head and get a buff that increases his damage. Rinse/repeat four times and he's dead. Key I guess is just stay away from his AOEs and make sure you save survival cooldowns for after the third one falls when he'll be hitting really hard(I popped Never Surrender as soon as the third support crumbled as insurance, for example, though didn't need it).
This is yet another fight in the update where Hunters/RKs as DPS have a big advantage not needing to be in his AOE range before it happens. It's also yet another 3-man that, on T2C, you really need to be geared well for. Both myself and the Minstrel were raid geared and my morale was still bouncing all over the place, especially if reaction to the AOE wasn't immediate.
Our group- a Guardian, Champion and Mini- was able to drop him on T2. The Guard tanked him at a corner until the ceiling came down and then moved onto the next corner. The Mini and I stayed far away, healing nonstop on the guard and plinking him with arrows. If the guard got into trouble, I challenged and off-tanked until the guard's morale was back up (not long).
Darg's AOE is massive, so everyone but the tank needs to be as far away as possible because he will one-shot light armor classes and he came close to one-shotting me. This isn't a dps race- once all four ceilings are down, the sun kills him, so just stay alive
Our group- a Guardian, Champion and Mini- was able to drop him on T2. The Guard tanked him at a corner until the ceiling came down and then moved onto the next corner. The Mini and I stayed far away, healing nonstop on the guard and plinking him with arrows. If the guard got into trouble, I challenged and off-tanked until the guard's morale was back up (not long).
Darg's AOE is massive, so everyone but the tank needs to be as far away as possible because he will one-shot light armor classes and he came close to one-shotting me. This isn't a dps race- once all four ceilings are down, the sun kills him, so just stay alive
This all makes sense. We were so tired last night that we couldn't quite figure out the last room. Basically the problem was keeping myself (Champ) alive while moving him around. Now that I know what to do I can probably save my life saving skills for his big attack. Staying alive was definitely the issue in here. Once I went down the light armor classes weren't far behind.
I didn't have any luck even on T1. Was running with an RK and captain. Pretty much, every time of the 4 times we tried, I was marginally okay taking his hits and getting healed, but then he pulled a fast one and knocked me out and immediately started the roof crumbling. Being knocked out for 10s and taking 1700/s, I was swiss cheese in no time...
Any suggestions, or should I just use Shield Tactics and hope for the best?
My group was having the same problems as tikt on T1. Our warden just couldn't withstand that attack. I'm optimistic for a solution here, since the devs hinted that the 3-mans should be completable without a healer or a tank (i.e. if the instance finder were to put a healerless or tankless group in there).
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
You mean the very last room where the challenge is to crumble the supports? Not sure what advice I can give there really. The tank holds him under each of the supports in turn, waiting for him to do his pound AOE. When he gets a buff on his bar everyone who was anywhere near him backs well away. He'll pound down the overhang on his head and get a buff that increases his damage. Rinse/repeat four times and he's dead. Key I guess is just stay away from his AOEs and make sure you save survival cooldowns for after the third one falls when he'll be hitting really hard(I popped Never Surrender as soon as the third support crumbled as insurance, for example, though didn't need it).
This is yet another fight in the update where Hunters/RKs as DPS have a big advantage not needing to be in his AOE range before it happens. It's also yet another 3-man that, on T2C, you really need to be geared well for. Both myself and the Minstrel were raid geared and my morale was still bouncing all over the place, especially if reaction to the AOE wasn't immediate.
did you actually end up beating it on T2C? if so, how did you deal with the stun + aoe of death combo?
did you actually end up beating it on T2C? if so, how did you deal with the stun + aoe of death combo?
Yeah we beat it, group was Wrd/Min/Hnt same group we did the other T2C 3-mans with(supplemented Hnt/Cpt/Brg to do the 6-man). Another Wrd/Min/Brg group from kin did it around the same time.
You can try Shield Tactics for the stun, it probably helped me once. I got stunned a couple times but never at the same time as the AOE, or at least I was able to move out of it after a couple hits. May just be bad luck if you were getting stunned seconds before an AOE and forced to take 4 or more hits. Other thing which might be viable is just popping Never Surrender early on, like after the first one collapses, since I'm not sure the entire fight lasts more than 5m. Didn't check if the AOE was morale based so as to be avoided while the tank is stunned since we did it in one attempt so had no need to question mechanics. Sorry I can't be of more help, if I come upon any other nuances I'll let you know.
The tank holds him under each of the supports in turn, waiting for him to do his pound AOE. When he gets a buff on his bar...
I notice the red aura around his feet when he unloads his pound, but that is not much time to run.
I know he gets a buff on his bar, does that apply BEFORE he starts pounding? Would it be early enough to be considered a tell?
That hobbit you just called fat? He's skipping 2nd breakfast.
The dwarf woman you called ugly? She spends hours braiding her beard so you can differentiate her from a dwarf man.
The Uruk-Hai you just killed? he's been abused by Saruman.
See that Gollum creature with the gangly limb and large eyes? For 500 years the ring poisoned his mind.
That elf you just made fun of for crying? She just lost her wizard friend to a Balrog.
Put this as your signature if you're against bullying in Middle-earth!
We killed him in tier 1 without bringing down any of the ceiling braces at all - tank him in the middle, and just dps him down to zero. It was pretty slow, but since he never got the light buff it was also pretty straightforward. This was with hunter, warden, and minstrel.
Killed him on T1 with a champ tank, hunter dps, and captain (me) healer. Very tough fight for a cappy to heal, but we managed it on the third attempt. As Adelric said, you can kill him without the ceiling bracess being knocked down (so he doesn't get the damage buff) as long as you tank him on the far wall between the braces. Takes longer, so power could be an issue (shouldn't be if you have good ICPR and use a power pot whenever you can), but "easier."
Yeah we beat it, group was Wrd/Min/Hnt same group we did the other T2C 3-mans with(supplemented Hnt/Cpt/Brg to do the 6-man). Another Wrd/Min/Brg group from kin did it around the same time.
You can try Shield Tactics for the stun, it probably helped me once. I got stunned a couple times but never at the same time as the AOE, or at least I was able to move out of it after a couple hits. May just be bad luck if you were getting stunned seconds before an AOE and forced to take 4 or more hits. Other thing which might be viable is just popping Never Surrender early on, like after the first one collapses, since I'm not sure the entire fight lasts more than 5m. Didn't check if the AOE was morale based so as to be avoided while the tank is stunned since we did it in one attempt so had no need to question mechanics. Sorry I can't be of more help, if I come upon any other nuances I'll let you know.
Thanks, this helps given that now I know that the AOE happens every 80s or so. Therefore, I'll BM a shield tactics and pop it at around 70s. So, if I get stunned before then, I'll get out of stun before he AOEs, and if not, I'll avoid a potential stun and get out anyhow.
This is yet another fight in the update where Hunters/RKs as DPS have a big advantage not needing to be in his AOE range before it happens. It's also yet another 3-man that, on T2C, you really need to be geared well for. Both myself and the Minstrel were raid geared and my morale was still bouncing all over the place, especially if reaction to the AOE wasn't immediate.
Only if you are not doing challenge mode. For the challenge quest, I believe dps is irrelevant. After many attempts I feel it is pretty safe to say the 'Pounding' attack is on a timer (~60sec) rather than a health threshold. The time we successfully completed the T2 challenge, we had Chp/Mini/RK; both of the squishy's healed full time, repositioned to stay at max heal range and the champ drug him infront of the 4 support scaffolds. I believe he had about 480k health remaining when we started the fight and when he turned to stone he had about 452k left.
If you aren't doing the challenge quest and plan to burn his health down to zero, I can absolutely see the advantage of ranged damage. In that situation it would make sense to tank him in an area where he wouldn't knock any holes in the roof, b/c those buffs are worth avoiding if you can.
I definitely agree with you about the well geared part. I don't really see how a group can complete T2 Challenge w/out very capable healer and tank; I'm still hoping there is more tactically that can be done to make the fight easier.
My group was having the same problems as tikt on T1. Our warden just couldn't withstand that attack. I'm optimistic for a solution here, since the devs hinted that the 3-mans should be completable without a healer or a tank (i.e. if the instance finder were to put a healerless or tankless group in there).
I bet you they nerf him down the road....doesn't help much right now though. I'm anxious to try this again but I'm not sure how you would get it done without a proper healer.
Only if you are not doing challenge mode. For the challenge quest, I believe dps is irrelevant. After many attempts I feel it is pretty safe to say the 'Pounding' attack is on a timer (~60sec) rather than a health threshold. The time we successfully completed the T2 challenge, we had Chp/Mini/RK; both of the squishy's healed full time, repositioned to stay at max heal range and the champ drug him infront of the 4 support scaffolds. I believe he had about 480k health remaining when we started the fight and when he turned to stone he had about 452k left.
If you aren't doing the challenge quest and plan to burn his health down to zero, I can absolutely see the advantage of ranged damage. In that situation it would make sense to tank him in an area where he wouldn't knock any holes in the roof, b/c those buffs are worth avoiding if you can.
I definitely agree with you about the well geared part. I don't really see how a group can complete T2 Challenge w/out very capable healer and tank; I'm still hoping there is more tactically that can be done to make the fight easier.
Interesting. So based on your run, it looks like the pounding is NOT tied to how much damage you do? There must be some other strategy than tank 'n' spank to beat him then if we are impliedly capable of doing all 3 instances w/o a regular Tank/Healer/DPS group setup.
Perhaps if you kite him around the room until you get lucky and he knocks those columns down? I'm thinking out loud here.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
Perhaps if you kite him around the room until you get lucky and he knocks those columns down? I'm thinking out loud here.
the thing is he has a really good (read bad) reach where pretty much you're hit nearly as often as if you weren't kiting, and he can still stun you to stop the kiting
This has to be one of the worst instances i have ever played. It is either full of bugs, or just very badly designed. At the second drama with the giant, he always gets stuck on the stairs fighting the orcs, so the explosions will not damage him, therefore we have to wait for the orcs to nibble his health down enough, or try and kite him with a tank (avoiding his stuns).
The final part is a joke - my guardian is constantly stuneed, unless i am lucky enough to get a block or parry in - even worse, i get stunned while he does his pounding, and the healer cannot get close enough to me to heal, so i die. You should not have to rely on luck and random elements to complete an instance - the designer of this should be ashamed.
The final part is a joke - my guardian is constantly stuneed, unless i am lucky enough to get a block or parry in - even worse, i get stunned while he does his pounding, and the healer cannot get close enough to me to heal, so i die. You should not have to rely on luck and random elements to complete an instance - the designer of this should be ashamed.
not true. Healers have a 25m heal range...thats is where they should be at. When the pounding happens the healer doesn't get hit. And i've healed a warden who was stunned thru the pounding on T2. Very well geared warden.
I really hate that instance though. The part using the torches one time he went green just like he is suppose to advance...but then he just stayed green and couldn't advance. Had to start the instance over. And yeah the troll going on the steps is reaaaally annoying.
ROI has the worst instances 3 and 6-man instances thus far.
Tanked it on my Warden with a Hunter and a Captain... wasn't too bad once we figured out what we needed to do. I stood under the supports until the pounding, then ran to next support. Others definitely need to stay out of range, especially when he starts pounding.
I also think dps is a non-issue, i.e. the pounding (and support crashing) is probably timer based. We actually got the Hunter to hold back quite a bit on dps, which allowed me to focus more on buffs and HoTs, rather than worrying about the Hunter pulling aggro.
Tanked it on my Warden with a Hunter and a Captain... wasn't too bad once we figured out what we needed to do. I stood under the supports until the pounding, then ran to next support. Others definitely need to stay out of range, especially when he starts pounding.
I also think dps is a non-issue, i.e. the pounding (and support crashing) is probably timer based. We actually got the Hunter to hold back quite a bit on dps, which allowed me to focus more on buffs and HoTs, rather than worrying about the Hunter pulling aggro.
Was that T1 or T2? On T2 I healed a warden with my RK and the warden was takin a massive beating once the damage buffs accumulated. I could manage on RK, but I'm curious how a captain would, especially with the 3rd person being a hunter.
Interesting. So based on your run, it looks like the pounding is NOT tied to how much damage you do? There must be some other strategy than tank 'n' spank to beat him then if we are impliedly capable of doing all 3 instances w/o a regular Tank/Healer/DPS group setup.
We tried determining when D would start 'Pounding' so the tank could anticipate when he needed to bolt, but after conferring with several different groups, it seemed to be a different health points everytime. So naturally we got out a timer and got average times of 60sec between 'Pounding' attacks. I was traited full fire dps on our last batch of runs and could burn him down to about 440k before he did his first 'Pounding'; on the successful run, he never got below 440k at all. (I'm not making a statement about my dps, I was usually starting conservative making sure we were positioned just right and used master of writs to simultaneously build a t3 writ of health on the tank). On our last run, I switched over to healing full time, and the 'Pounding' attacks came just as frequently.
Originally Posted by dietlbomb
Perhaps if you kite him around the room until you get lucky and he knocks those columns down? I'm thinking out loud here.
One of the effects of the Light buff is +25% to run speed with each application, so that makes kiting tough. He appeared to be immune to Icy Disclosure, so I assume that means he's immune to other classes' slows.
Originally Posted by Aslird
...
The final part is a joke - my guardian is constantly stuneed, unless i am lucky enough to get a block or parry in - even worse, i get stunned while he does his pounding...
The stuns seem to be way too often; I know its been a huge frustration to everyone I've been in the instance with.
Was that T1 or T2? On T2 I healed a warden with my RK and the warden was takin a massive beating once the damage buffs accumulated. I could manage on RK, but I'm curious how a captain would, especially with the 3rd person being a hunter.
I thought it was T2 but, to be honest, I can't say for sure as I didn't create the instance. If my buddies are on tonight, we may try it again and I'll make sure it's T2. It may very well have been T1... not sure if there is any way (e.g. deed) to check that.
We actually ran this instance up to the end battle with the Captain on his Burg but after a couple attempts (and not yet knowing what to do) it was pretty obvious we weren't going to take Dargnakh down without heals. Having Captain buffs made a big difference, plus this Captain is probably one of the better healing Cappies on our server. One thing that helped a bit also was that I started with Ambush at max range (but did not run in to attack). Dargnakh always went immediately into pounding after the knockdown and I had plenty of time to get some Masteried buffs up before he reached me.
As to the 3rd person (Hunter), he always stayed out of damage range.
Only if you are not doing challenge mode. For the challenge quest, I believe dps is irrelevant. After many attempts I feel it is pretty safe to say the 'Pounding' attack is on a timer (~60sec) rather than a health threshold. The time we successfully completed the T2 challenge, we had Chp/Mini/RK; both of the squishy's healed full time, repositioned to stay at max heal range and the champ drug him infront of the 4 support scaffolds. I believe he had about 480k health remaining when we started the fight and when he turned to stone he had about 452k left.
Good to know about the timer. In that case the DPS doesn't really matter and can debuff or heal if applicable and twiddle their thumbs otherwise I suppose.
Good to know about the timer. In that case the DPS doesn't really matter and can debuff or heal if applicable and twiddle their thumbs otherwise I suppose.
Yeah I noticed this too. How would a hunter help a healer/tank out tho? It seems fairly idiotic to make a 3-man boss fight where the 3rd person is completely useless if a certain class. Yeah some classes can debuff/heal/back up tank if the first tank dies somehow...but what would a hunter bring to the fight?
My group was having the same problems as tikt on T1. Our warden just couldn't withstand that attack. I'm optimistic for a solution here, since the devs hinted that the 3-mans should be completable without a healer or a tank (i.e. if the instance finder were to put a healerless or tankless group in there).
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
I ran this with 2 kinmates: Mini, RK and I on my Captain. Think it took us about 7 tries. Each time brought us further in the fight I traited fully down the yellow line with captains hope and strength within. Shield-brother kinmate for the defense buff. Reveal mark for morale return. RK said he used the legendary heal. Both were healing like crazy.
I stood right in the middle of each pillar. When I saw the note on the screen and kinmates say "run!" I got out of there. That's when I threw down my defense buff. Seems like when the cd was done (1 min) was when he did his next big attack. We found it best to put your back to the wall so he doesn't accidentally knock me out of healing range or healing site
The 4th round was crazy but my friends did an awesome job healing me threw those hits. On his last big aoe, both of them caught in the hit but we had enough HOTs going that I survived with about 2k morale.
I gave both of them the crit buff and I had the parry buff. I used a lvl 75 one hand weapon and the shield from Sword Halls(was the only one I had)
Use defense scrolls and destiny points for the morale and amour boost helped. Their awesome healing helped tremendously!
Carrottop (75 elf hunter), Flosiin (75 captain), Chambo(75 hobbit burglar), Flodoc (75 hobbit minstrel), Walwulfa (75 human guardian) and Widlow (55 human lore-master.)
easiest of all the challanges for me, i was on my warden, with cappy for heals and buff and an LM once and burg other time.
his AoE has a timer of 75 sec from my opservations, so if no LM you can pop antistun yourself, keep all your avoidance buffs up at all the times, and heal yourself, only need for a few aggro gambits, no need for dps to do anthing here, only usefull if you have a debuff class, so he debuffs right before the AoE.
didn't have any unlucky stuns just before aoe, even when the lm forgot to put antistun up.
i am well equiped, but not extra well, and i have all avoidance relics on my weapon, so selfbuffed my b/p/e are around 25/20/18 with cappy parry buff, and it really helps in the fight, only time i wasn't full up healed was those AoE pounds, wich from my opservation can't be avoided.
try and have someone with a timer telling you when the attack is coming, so you are ready. but still don't start runing away until you see his red skull buff, with practice, you will be able to get hit only a few times.
It IS true. The last boss on T2hm needs absolutely no damage at all. Every minute he pounds the floor, and if you just manage to stay alive for 4 minutes, and he takes down the last ceiling, he dies automatically. However, there is a LOT of dps up to the boss, so if you're not into switching ppl in and out of the group in the middle, dps is very needed, just not on the last boss.
We did it with warden/hunter/RK, and got him down on the third try.
European l75 Hunter
Roulette l75 Runekeeper
Fantomet l67 Guardian
2nd in Command in Knights of the White Tree
Minstrel: 4k Morale, 5.5k Power, +87% to most heals (with 3x Major Ballad up).
Are we missing something, do we need to gear up more first, or (most likely) do we just suck? 8-)
Let champion clobber the hell outta em, thats important.
Damage boss, kill adds, damage boss, kill adds, damage boss, kill adds, damage boss.
Take your loot
The only weak place is champion's low morale pool (its high for a champ but 60% lower than guards have), so be ready to fast-heal after crits and champ should not forget about his bubble
Last edited by Chupakabara; Dec 15 2011 at 09:29 AM.
Yup the trick to kill this boss is to survive for 4 minutes.
My group was RK, Minstrel and Guardian. Both RK and Mini started with healing for this fight. We positioned such that Mini (main healer to heal the guardian) was just within his pound and healing range(25m) and RK standing behind mini healing him. Guardian tanking/repositioning the boss near the braces in each corner. Four pounds to survive and with mini healing guard and rk healing mini we completed the fight in his 4 pound animations. Easiest fight of all.
Minstrel: 4k Morale, 5.5k Power, +87% to most heals (with 3x Major Ballad up).
Are we missing something, do we need to gear up more first, or (most likely) do we just suck? 8-)
make sure also that the champ is using blood rage to quickly recover from stuns and clobber.
That hobbit you just called fat? He's skipping 2nd breakfast.
The dwarf woman you called ugly? She spends hours braiding her beard so you can differentiate her from a dwarf man.
The Uruk-Hai you just killed? he's been abused by Saruman.
See that Gollum creature with the gangly limb and large eyes? For 500 years the ring poisoned his mind.
That elf you just made fun of for crying? She just lost her wizard friend to a Balrog.
Put this as your signature if you're against bullying in Middle-earth!
Minstrel: 4k Morale, 5.5k Power, +87% to most heals (with 3x Major Ballad up).
do we need to gear up more first
Alrighty, what I say here may sound harsh but its warranted I think.
Maybe, yes and yes. 10k morale in tank spec is probably ok for the champ. Ideally see if you can get both vit and might above 1k.
A hunter with 16k physical mastery might as well be healing mobs. I mean seriously, I could see a 10k morale hunter having 16k physical mastery but a 5k hunter should probably have 25k+ mastery.
Speaking as a mini, I have either 6.2k morale and 8.5k power or 5.6k morale and 9k power (1900+ will) in my all out healing build. And I am still using junk rings lol. With 5.5k power I'm guessing the mini isn't even above 1k will. What is his outgoing healing without buffs? (not tactical damage). You probably want it to be at least 40%.
So yeah, gear out better from skirms/draigoch armor or your just going to be frustrated. Not trying to be mean or anything...just yeah. You need better gear.
Last edited by swordmonkey; Dec 15 2011 at 02:59 PM.
-Findaratos mini ~ Shock and Awe
-Fingolfinfelagund champ ~ Professional Awesome
For Huva, you need to avoid damaging him enough to get 2 sets of adds at once. The adds are triggered based on his morale, so once you get one set of adds, do as little damage to him as you need to. Also, there are a ton of inductions in this fight. The boss does a big AoE fire/wound/stun attack when he puts his hands over his head. Being fast at tabbing between mobs and having an interrupt hot keyed helps a lot. You can wait a little longer on the heals that the adds do. If you don't interrupt the induction you can still interrupt them when they are kneeling on the ground healing. Champion horn to stun and interrupt both adds at once also helps a lot. I screwed up and got the last 4 adds at one time last night, and it makes the fight a lot harder.
There are a lot of fights in this game where damaging the boss through multiple morale points causes the group to get overwhelmed with adds. This is one of them, Trouble in Tuckborough raid is another. Other fights have the adds spawn on a timer or they just respawn as soon as the last adds are dead, so you need to dps the boss as fast as possible (there are lots of these in the new instances). You need to recognize the spawn mechanic for adds and deal accordingly.
Helen - Lv 85 champ, Helenrk - Lv 85 RK, Stiiv - Lv 85 Burg, Evilhelen - Lv 75 Champion
Cle - Lv 85 Captain, Unplugged - Lv 75 Minstrel
The Force of Middle Earth, Silverlode
We did Dragnakh on tier 1 last night to try to get the deed done, but it didn't give us credit. We let him destroy the support and turn to stone even though there was no challenge mode in tier 1. Does anyone know, do you have to actually kill him to get the tier 1 deed, or is it just bugged? We /bugged it anyway.
Edit: Someone in another thread said you needed to actually kill him, not collapse the roof to get the T1 deed. I tried it, and it worked.
Last edited by shazbaat; Dec 21 2011 at 07:07 PM.
Helen - Lv 85 champ, Helenrk - Lv 85 RK, Stiiv - Lv 85 Burg, Evilhelen - Lv 75 Champion
Cle - Lv 85 Captain, Unplugged - Lv 75 Minstrel
The Force of Middle Earth, Silverlode
Minstrel: 4k Morale, 5.5k Power, +87% to most heals (with 3x Major Ballad up).
Are we missing something, do we need to gear up more first, or (most likely) do we just suck? 8-)
There is a nice trick to defeating huva too.
have tank grab aggro and tank him with no dps while only interupting his inductions, and healer healing him.
just make sure tank does just enough attacks that he doesn't go for the healer while he interupts him.
it seems hulva has put a lot of effort in his offence, but forgot to use icpr gear , so after a while he will run out of power and just auto atack the tank, at that time you can start dps-ing him and the ads, you will see it's a lot easier without his AoE induction attacks to worrie about.
It may take a bit longer, but that would be the safe way to do it