On the bright side, I can now cast slightly faster after Coda of Fury animation tweak. So more power consumed for less damage. At least the Calls and Cries were untouched.
What I am seeing, is that Coda now does damage around the same as the rest of my skills, so there is no point in pulling the trigger on it and losing the ballads unless I need power.
In a way, this just simplified things as I won't work on queuing up for that skill more than once per combat. Just queue up for the ballad damage and burn things down the way I used to after that. (in other words, its high cost in time and low output in damage isn't worth keeping it in the rotation unless you need the "when active on coda" responses... like power regen.
Strangely, I cannot seem to find the corresponding patch notes entry. Can anyone quote it? Otherwise this is a 'ninja nerf' and a most unfair one as well since the microscopically reduced pause in no way makes up for a loss of like 30-40% of CoF damage.
Yep, 'Yaviere' is the Hobbit name for an autumn holiday. But then of course, you knew that
Terrible,terrible idea...It's a healer class we get it but why do you destroy our damage dealing capabilities.If you want us to just heal then remove the warspeech completely.Also i haven't seen any improvements on the other classes either.The whole game just got worse.And probably will be even worse with a future update.I don't understand what's got in to developers heads.'Let's screw this class,don't make any significant improvements on anything and that way we'll win more players and make more money !' I don't think so.I hate you for screwing my beloved minstrel.Thank god I'm not subscribed.I can't spend any more money for this nonsense.
Strangely, I cannot seem to find the corresponding patch notes entry. Can anyone quote it? Otherwise this is a 'ninja nerf' and a most unfair one as well since the microscopically reduced pause in no way makes up for a loss of like 30-40% of CoF damage.
There was nothing mentioned in the patch notes of course about the ~%40 drop in damage. I'd rather be seeing bigger numbers with a slight pause (albeit annoying if you have to cast those "oh sh-" skills) than have to cycle through and cast CoF twice to see barely higher numbers than one cast yesterday. Looks like that ninja nerf from bullroarer carried over
Terrible,terrible idea...It's a healer class we get it but why do you destroy our damage dealing capabilities.If you want us to just heal then remove the warspeech completely.Also i haven't seen any improvements on the other classes either.The whole game just got worse.And probably will be even worse with a future update.I don't understand what's got in to developers heads.'Let's screw this class,don't make any significant improvements on anything and that way we'll win more players and make more money !' I don't think so.I hate you for screwing my beloved minstrel.Thank god I'm not subscribed.I can't spend any more money for this nonsense.
Our damage now is still far superior to the pre-RoI mini. And really, I think you're overreacting. One already extremely overpowered skill got nerfed. I rarely used the Coda much in the first place - I prefer keeping my ballad buffs/Anthem of War up to blowing them all with the Coda.
Our damage now is still far superior to the pre-RoI mini. And really, I think you're overreacting. One already extremely overpowered skill got nerfed. I rarely used the Coda much in the first place - I prefer keeping my ballad buffs/Anthem of War up to blowing them all with the Coda.
Indeed it could have been far far worse (i.e. hunter RoI). Still a bit of a bummer to everyone that primarily solos. Though at late levels this just means I'll dump all of my AoE skills and just use coda for power return. Still a viable fun solo class. Going to miss seeing those crits though.
This will be the reason why i quit lotro.This is so unfair.My main was a rk and they reduced the damage of him,now mini.The only other class I like is champion.I'm sure they'll reduce something of him too in a future update
Terrible,terrible idea...It's a healer class we get it but why do you destroy our damage dealing capabilities.If you want us to just heal then remove the warspeech completely.Also i haven't seen any improvements on the other classes either.The whole game just got worse.And probably will be even worse with a future update.I don't understand what's got in to developers heads.'Let's screw this class,don't make any significant improvements on anything and that way we'll win more players and make more money !' I don't think so.I hate you for screwing my beloved minstrel.Thank god I'm not subscribed.I can't spend any more money for this nonsense.
The Problem was simply that a WS Mini could deal 80% of the damage of a full damage dealer, has more utility than any DD and full self-heal
well, it was fun while it lasted.... but I expected a nerf sooner or later.
So, it will take a little longer to kill stuff, but remember:
"Patience is a Virtue"
:-))
This was necessary. This was expected. And this will not be the end of the world. We still do VERY respectable damage.
Let's look on the bright side! We got some very good things with the update:
Anthem of the Third Age, now works on critical regardless of spec depth in Power of Song.
We have made the delay between codas and the action of other skills a little more tolerable.
Enhanced duration and removal of the buff now work correctly on Anthem of War applied to fellows. The buff is removed from all members of the fellowship when the coda is activated.
Call to Greatness reduced to 5 minutes, the bonus trait from Power of Song 2 deep increased to 60 seconds.
Bolster courage is once again affected by the Song of the Hammerhand bubble.
Song of Distraction and Improved Song of Distraction no longer generate threat. If the skill is resisted by a target that target will not become immediately aggressive to the player.
Outgoing healing will now affect the heal-over-time portion of the Improved Chord of Salvation.
Dirge-singer armour now has finesse at the cost of a little will. Hands and Chest pieces now have finesse.
That's practically everything we were complaining about!
The Problem was simply that a WS Mini could deal 80% of the damage of a full damage dealer, has more utility than any DD and full self-heal
Doesn´t sound fair, does it?
I think what you'll see is the majority of old time minstrel players might be rather ambivalent about the changes. The class as a whole is still significantly improved. The majority of griping will come from from the so called flavor of the month minstrels that veteran players tend to cast dispersions upon (e.g. "In my day we had to walk uphill both ways, blah blah"). I'll throw myself in with the FotM players as I came back to Lotro after RoI and I really only play this game solo. For me 'fun' does indeed include facerolling through all landscape mobs and having more utility than a pre-RoI hunter. Different strokes for different folks. If I were inclined to play as a healer or a buffer I would probably still be salivating over the yellow line.
The Problem was simply that a WS Mini could deal 80% of the damage of a full damage dealer, has more utility than any DD and full self-heal
Doesn´t sound fair, does it?
I don't agree. The problem was they removed all the nice bonuses from odd level up skills throughout the game and made mobs hit much harder. They removed medium armor so we take those hits much harder as well. The extra DPS was to help compensate the squishiness added to the class. I'm now 75, have 4 pieces of raid gear on and still get hit for 1,000 by landscape mobs at times. Get a bad pull of 2 or 3 and we don't have much in the way to defend ourselves. if we are taking 3k every hit...
Additionally, in the big RK/mini divide I saw was that RKs had a nice nuke skill they could use. We did not. This helped even out the classes so that a mini wasn't a single role option for groups while RKs could boast dual roles. The Coda and other changes made us viable DPS alternates instead of ONLY healers.
I believe I was very early to say that DPS was way too high... but if it is going to be intentionally reduced (with this not in the patch notes, I'm still not sure it was intentional, I've bugged it to be safe) then the other sliders need to be adjusted as well.
By lowering this skill at this point... it negates all reasons for the change in the first place. (I'm in favor of toning down DPS, but only if we tone down damage taken and find ways to keep the healing classes on equal footing). We started with a 40% healing nerf as well. That was by design, though I don't agree with it. Hopefully this was not by design.
If I had it my way, I'd lower the DPS, boost our heals a tad, and give us back some mitigations against landscape mobs (fine with me if instance mobs hit harder to force teamwork). But without the mitigations, I want back the ability to kill faster so morale isn't such a big issue.
I was destroying creeps with cof and now they're laughing at me because i can't do damage.Minstrel has become a weak passive class again.Needs people to protect him.Coda of fury was our secret weapon.Our foes feared us.Now we are tickling our foes and get killed with our light armour in two hits.This sounds fair ?
I was destroying creeps with cof and now they're laughing at me because i can't do damage.Minstrel has become a weak passive class again.Needs people to protect him.Coda of fury was our secret weapon.Our foes feared us.Now we are tickling our foes and get killed with our light armour in two hits.This sounds fair ?
Please don't try to make Mini's out to be victims in the moors. We are still 1A/1B in creeps eyes are the most OP class out there. I took out a 9.5K defiler last night with them getting exactly 1 skill off and I did not use CoF at all...so how exactly is that tickling? If it took an epic Dev crit from CoF to defeat creeps, you're doing it wrong. Maybe you need to work on your gear if you feel you are a weak class out there, I don't know.
We are fine and in better shape than ever...trust me.
For My BW Brethren or Those Who Love Stick Figures 3 Years of Stick Art
R.I.P NIDOR (1970-2012): You shall be missed but never forgotten, thank you.
The Problem was simply that a WS Mini could deal 80% of the damage of a full damage dealer, has more utility than any DD and full self-heal
Doesn´t sound fair, does it?
It's always been this way. Pre-ROI we were tougher which is why self heals were added btw. Pre-ROI I could stand toe to toe with 3 on level MOB's, burn em all down in short order and still have a good chunk of my morale left. I can still do it now Post-ROI. . .I just need to use a heal or a bubble. If we couldn't self heal now, we would be screwed. Self heals don't overpower the minstrel. It gives the minstrel a new survival tool to make up for the loss of survivability.
So it's perfectly fair. Oh, and the loss of DPS in one skill doesn't hurt the minstrel arsenal all that much.
I said it once and I'll say it again. Minstrel's are really not that much different now than before ROI. We were awesome before ROI and we are awesome now. I personally haven't had to adjust much in terms of playstyle since the expansion and I've had mine for about 2 years now. We've just become FOTM because of perceived uberness so you have everyone playing the class and finding out what the "old-timers" have known since the Tactical Resistance fix in MoM.
It's an amazing soloing class and has been for years.
Of course all of the awesomeness I experience could be because my minnie's a dorf. . .
I was just popping on here to start a thread asking if it was just me thinking CoF had lost a lot of its punch today. nothing in the patch notes, etc...oh well.
Honestly, I shouldn't be surprised - this nerf was coming ever since RoI. When one skill was so good I never need to use cries or calls, it was probably a little bit too good. I'll miss vapourising stuff on-level, but I can't really complain.
I don't mind per-se downgrading Coda of Fury (I preferred to leave it undetonated to keep my Anthem of War myself), but I am somewhat irked that they wouldn't mention it in the update notes.
What chaps my hide is that a mini was finally fun to play solo. I levelled my neglected alt from 36 to 66, bought RoI looking forward to more and the devs steal it all away. I kinda want my money back. It's one thing to make some adjustments to the dps but another to almost HALVE it without so much as a note in the release notes about it. I figured it would get somewhat nerfed at some point but this is absolutely ridiculous. I don't want to be a friggin group healer...I want to solo and have some dps. How about giving medium armor back now? Maybe SWtOR will be better...
What chaps my hide is that a mini was finally fun to play solo. I levelled my neglected alt from 36 to 66, bought RoI looking forward to more and the devs steal it all away. I kinda want my money back. It's one thing to make some adjustments to the dps but another to almost HALVE it without so much as a note in the release notes about it. I figured it would get somewhat nerfed at some point but this is absolutely ridiculous. I don't want to be a friggin group healer...I want to solo and have some dps. How about giving medium armor back now? Maybe SWtOR will be better...
Again how is it that 1 skill makes up the bulk of your DPS? And how is it that yours is somehow magically critting to where you have the same results every time and the decreased damage is actually noticable? You telling me you bought RoI for a 5K crit skill and want you money back because now it is only 2.5-3.5K?
As for medium armor, you do realize Armor of Song is traitable and better than the old Medium armor right. You get the same benefits of medium armor while holding light armor class set bonus' and it increases all sources of armor and not just the particular items you are wearing. So if you have 3pcs of medium and 3 pieces of light you were only getting approx 20% more on those 3 pieces when medium armor was a trait, now you get +20% for 7 pieces (and I believe tale of warding +traits as well [please correct me if I am wrong]).
For My BW Brethren or Those Who Love Stick Figures 3 Years of Stick Art
R.I.P NIDOR (1970-2012): You shall be missed but never forgotten, thank you.
I don't mind per-se downgrading Coda of Fury (I preferred to leave it undetonated to keep my Anthem of War myself), but I am somewhat irked that they wouldn't mention it in the update notes.
This is my main reason for being angry as well....
"We have made the delay between codas and the action of other skills a little more tolerable."
Did they think we wouldnt notice the massive dps nerf?
As far as PvE, we wont notice much a difference, but there are several times in the moors where a CoF dev or crit managed to bring down a Defiler or WL and save my group from a face roll, and really turn the tide of a fight. I think in light of some of the creep buffs people have told me about, this was a step in the wrong direction for the mini. It seems like I am hitting harder overall, so I could understand a nerf to keep the CoF on par or move it down slightly, but I hit for 1000 less on a normal hit now. That is pretty substantial. I think as time goes by, people will definitely start to feel the other way around about the CoF.
Above all else, despite our opinions, this ninja nerf of our Coda was downright mean. The patch notes don't even hint at it, I would have at least liked a warning or something. Pretty much a lie of omission on Orion's part unless am I misunderstanding the issue, which I hope I am.
The only problem I see is that gear matters a lot.
I didn't rely on Coda of Fury and I was content with minstrel DPS. But I also had good gear, and had somebody to duo with at those times I was rushing to level and hence didn't really have good gear.
I was destroying creeps with cof and now they're laughing at me because i can't do damage.Minstrel has become a weak passive class again.Needs people to protect him.Coda of fury was our secret weapon.Our foes feared us.Now we are tickling our foes and get killed with our light armour in two hits.This sounds fair ?
I am going to be blunt here: learn to play your class. If you were depending on CoF to do most of the damage to creeps, you were doing it wrong.
Good change and much appreciated animation change especially.
Originally Posted by Acidiun
Above all else, despite our opinions, this ninja nerf of our Coda was downright mean. The patch notes don't even hint at it, I would have at least liked a warning or something. Pretty much a lie of omission on Orion's part unless am I misunderstanding the issue, which I hope I am.
I played on BR and saw the nerf (which we all talked about here more than a month ago). It was an incredibly OP skill as it was - a massive nuke potential like EC but at 40 meters - and on the run even. Not to mention if you were loaded with anthems, you got a huge boon when it fired. It ended up being very unbalancing on big crits and ensured that very little skill actually had to be used to kill a creep, even if the minstrel played badly. The only thing balanced about it was the animation delay, which is now gone, allowing us to potentially do MORE DPS because we're not hindered by a three second pause.
Last edited by Gillianrial; Dec 12 2011 at 09:07 PM.
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
I am going to be blunt here: learn to play your class. If you were depending on CoF to do most of the damage to creeps, you were doing it wrong.
Really???? We're killing creeps wrong, huh? Doing it right is doing it the fastest way possible, imo. That USED to be minor, perfect, minor, cof (alternating composure and freepeeps anthems). Finished every fight quickly and full of health and power. It was fun. "Wrong" worked pretty dang snazzy. I'll admit that minis were OP and probably needed some nerfing BUT my upper DPS range on CoF changed from about 1700 to 700 (at my level)...that's an UGLY nerf. They could have done taken half that and achieved the desired effect. And it's particularly low rent to not even admit doing it in the notes. SHAME on Turbine!!!!! /end rant
Really???? We're killing creeps wrong, huh? Doing it right is doing it the fastest way possible, imo. That USED to be minor, perfect, minor, cof (alternating composure and freepeeps anthems). Finished every fight quickly and full of health and power. It was fun. "Wrong" worked pretty dang snazzy. I'll admit that minis were OP and probably needed some nerfing BUT my upper DPS range on CoF changed from about 1700 to 700 (at my level)...that's an UGLY nerf. They could have done taken half that and achieved the desired effect. And it's particularly low rent to not even admit doing it in the notes. SHAME on Turbine!!!!! /end rant
I played on BR and saw the nerf (which we all talked about here more than a month ago). It was an incredibly OP skill as it was - a massive nuke potential like EC but at 40 meters - and on the run even. Not to mention if you were loaded with anthems, you got a huge boon when it fired. It ended up being very unbalancing on big crits and ensured that very little skill actually had to be used to kill a creep, even if the minstrel played badly. The only thing balanced about it was the animation delay, which is now gone, allowing us to potentially do MORE DPS because we're not hindered by a three second pause.
Can you link me to the thread discussion? I must have missed the talk about it, I don't remember seeing one in the mini forums. That's a very valid point, and I see what you mean about it being OP, but a change to a skill this drastic should have been in the patch notes at the very least. This way, it just seems to me, is a little underhanded.
I guess my point of view comes from my server's PvMP, where Warleader raids are pretty much all we get, and we need burst damage to burn them down in between store-bought shield spams.
Edit: On a side note, I still dev for 5k on mobs, o:
I don't mind per-se downgrading Coda of Fury (I preferred to leave it undetonated to keep my Anthem of War myself), but I am somewhat irked that they wouldn't mention it in the update notes.
Indeed this is my biggest annoyance. Sort of one of those things you assume they leave out of the patch notes to look like things are only ever improved, not nerfed.
As to all of the other PvMP discussion. I don't want to imply that it isn't something worth taking into consideration but it seems like it is a vocal, if not somewhat elitist, minority as far as what classes should be balanced/nerfed etc. That's a whole other can of worms.
Last edited by ElConando; Dec 12 2011 at 11:37 PM.
Really???? We're killing creeps wrong, huh? Doing it right is doing it the fastest way possible, imo. That USED to be minor, perfect, minor, cof (alternating composure and freepeeps anthems). Finished every fight quickly and full of health and power. It was fun. "Wrong" worked pretty dang snazzy. I'll admit that minis were OP and probably needed some nerfing BUT my upper DPS range on CoF changed from about 1700 to 700 (at my level)...that's an UGLY nerf. They could have done taken half that and achieved the desired effect. And it's particularly low rent to not even admit doing it in the notes. SHAME on Turbine!!!!! /end rant
I realize that a lot of players overused Coda while in DPS mode. It's evident by how many new minstrels are in the Moors these days I'm suggesting those who did, need to learn to play their class with more depth and situational skill use, and then come back and tell us how "nerfed" they are. I think it's absolutely nuts to cry nerf over one skill when minstrels have never been stronger from an offense perspective.
CoF has been adjusted, but still does a LOT of damage on the run - at 40 meters even - and now, with hardly any animation delay. It's a buff IMO with the animation removal alone, and that's what was mentioned in the notes. Did you really think they were going to take away the horrific animation delay and let us keep that amount of damage?
CoF is part of a rotation now, IMO. I am pretty sure that's how it's intended to be. Not the minstrel equivalent of EC at 40m. *shrug*
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
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