Thread: Update 6 Lore-master changes proposal: Guide for Raskolnikov

Originally Posted by Lambs

The point Ravanel was trying to make wasn't that the raven isn't good against a BA, because the raven is amazing against BA's. The point was that the raven has more use than just an anti-BA pet.

Thanks for pointing that out. That was indeed exactly what I meant.

Originally Posted by Lambs

(...)I do feel that the cats (both lynx and saber) and the wisp spirit thing have no real place being used anywhere but solo and in solo you are probably better off with a high flanking animal like the eagle, raven, or bog lurker or you should have the bear to pull aggro.

I remember the lynx was nice for solo in the earlier levels, when its crits actually are relatively high. Later on your own damage is boosted and I totally agree that a pet like the raven is much more useful. When I leveled my lore-master myself MoNF didn't exist yet though, so I don't know if the lynx-situation-at-lower-levels is still the same.

The only use for the saber I found so far is to put him on those fume thingies in DN. But who does DN these days...

I wouldn't use the wisp solo either. I have found a use for it though (albeit a niche), which is: fights with only common damage in which healing is nice and the LM is busy. I basically mean Orthanc T2. On the trash I'm usually busy with dazing two targets, debuffing and removing diseases/wounds. The targets die fast and I don't have the time to tell my pet to follow the RAT. Instead it just is there and gives a nice miss chance debuff, and can do its aoe healing at the moments everyone is taking damage. I do ofc use the healing mark whenever possible. There's a lot of common damage in end game instances at the moment, and the wisp can be handy there if you don't trait Improved Flanking or use OD-set and you still need some healing.

Either way, I agree that the pets could use some boosting, and then especially the cats. The only use they have for me as an end-game player is for them to look cute/cool and that's a shame. They would help the soloing lore-master if they would hit harder; the other pets will still have their use in group content (and the highly flaking ones in solo if the lore-master needs self-healing). I don't feel this would make a lore-master too powerful, as we still are among the lowest dmg dealing classes as far as sustained DPS is concerned.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

At least you dont need to worry about Sticky Gourd damage

Cezelle scored a devastating hit with Improved Sticky Gourd on Purebloodnakh for 4,356 Fire damage to Morale

/feed

how on earth did you manage to convince yourself that this comment was either necessary or helpful to this conversation?? please take your complaints about freep damage (which has bothered you enough to post on the forums of several classes) and put them somewhere other than a thread on how to improve a class

my 2 cents: like others have said, give love to KoA, I've tried very hard to find a reason to use it and still cannot (other than the lurker)

Originally Posted by Ravanel

I wouldn't use the wisp solo either. I have found a use for it though (albeit a niche), which is: fights with only common damage in which healing is nice and the LM is busy. I basically mean Orthanc T2. On the trash I'm usually busy with dazing two targets, debuffing and removing diseases/wounds. The targets die fast and I don't have the time to tell my pet to follow the RAT. Instead it just is there and gives a nice miss chance debuff, and can do its aoe healing at the moments everyone is taking damage. I do ofc use the healing mark whenever possible. There's a lot of common damage in end game instances at the moment, and the wisp can be handy there if you don't trait Improved Flanking or use OD-set and you still need some healing.

The limrafn is spectacular in the Moors. The 10% morale heal affects everyone, even those not grouped with your at all, and the miss chance is very nice. Dunno if I'd give up the raven for it in groups if I was the only LM (for the mitigation), and I definitely wouldn't use it over the raven solo, but for when you're in or with a raid, it's great.

Originally Posted by Ravanel

Thanks for pointing that out. That was indeed exactly what I meant.
I wouldn't use the wisp solo either. I have found a use for it though (albeit a niche), which is: fights with only common damage in which healing is nice and the LM is busy. I basically mean Orthanc T2..

Yeah, this. It's also nice to know when to time the flank (which is usually power in these situations), and the 5% morale return on bosses adds up. The fewer people the less use it has which is kind of funny and sad. A good way to change it for small groups is something like: higher % morale return the fewer players in your group, and it goes to 5% in raids.

Originally Posted by TinDragon

The limrafn is spectacular in the Moors. The 10% morale heal affects everyone, even those not grouped with your at all, and the miss chance is very nice. Dunno if I'd give up the raven for it in groups if I was the only LM (for the mitigation), and I definitely wouldn't use it over the raven solo, but for when you're in or with a raid, it's great.

That's cool, I didn't think of that use yet! The miss chance will annoy those creeps a lot and the aoe heal sounds very good indeed, especially in big fights in the open (oh, I love those!). For the majority of time I'm doubtful if I want to give up my raven though, as I'm not capping my tactical mitigation without it yet.

Originally Posted by rhegan

Yeah, this. It's also nice to know when to time the flank (which is usually power in these situations), and the 5% morale return on bosses adds up. The fewer people the less use it has which is kind of funny and sad. A good way to change it for small groups is something like: higher % morale return the fewer players in your group, and it goes to 5% in raids.

We agree, although I was mostly meaning the ToO trash pulls. For the bosses I would recommend raven, as they are very heavy on tactical damage.

As for the how-many-people-mechanics, you're of course right in that it works like that. Sounds like an interesting solution you brought on, but am not sure if I'd like to see it work that way. Hard to predict for me if it would still be in balance with the other pet choices for 3-mans.

If this has already been suggested and I missed it I do apologize (and props to the OP). SoP Righteousness, in many ways it used to be similar to IDOME for the Cappie. Both skills are in high demand, both have a cd much shorter than their duration (so they can be kept up permanently), and thirdly neither one is game-breaking, just highly useful.

My proposal is that they do to SoPR what they did to IDOME, make it a toggle skill with an aura isntead of having to recast it every few minutes (which can get annoying) if this is considered OP then maybe make the toggle cost x power per second? What do yall think?

Sign of Battle: Wizardry....humm....what a about a cousin for this one? Sign of Battle: Healing. This would be like captains Words of Courage accompanied by some nerfs so that the LM dont turns into a new cpt.

Oh yes yes, Havent the minstrels got that derived skill from Echoes of Battle which applies reflect damage? Why cant the LMs untraited Air-Lore be better as he is the original owner of this mechanic?

I'd love to see a ranged slot item for lore maters... A useful one. Also I think that something needs to be done about inductions in pvp. If you get jumped by one melee creep you're gonna struggle to face them (presuming they're running around you like any good creep would) AND get an induction off, if you get jumped by 2 then you're screwed. Just my thoughts, I'd like to hear if you agree/disagree

I want a skill that removes all DoTs and bleeds form the opponent. This would allow us to blinding flash/root something with a DoT on them. Maybe removing the DoTs would add a debuff to the targets resistances (making them easier to cc) with a magnitude equal to the number of DoTs removed.

^ Or even a skill which turns the DoT's on the enemy into instant damage (removing the DoT's from them)

Already been said, but still bears repeating:

pet damage needs to scale better, the auto-attacks and specials seem lackluster at higher levels.
The lynx put a bleed on something the other day that was like 54 common damage with 3 ticks (maybe even less), its pitiful compared to other bleed effects at that level.

air-lore should also scale better, the reflect and absorb should go up much higher with character level, and the chance to absorb should increase in percentage with more blue traits instead of just jumping from 1% to 100%.

I'll preface this by saying I've played LM very little... I play a captain/champ/guard.

I like the LM as a class, my friend plays an LM as his main, and we have lengthy discussions about the loremaster. Enough that I feel comfortable commenting. He's too lazy to post on the forums.

LM's should be able to blinding flash while traited red. Maybe it's not 15s cd 30 duration, but 30s cd/30d would be acceptable. Even 15s cd/15 d would be acceptable, as long as you can keep a mob locked down.

Red - damage.
Yellow - debuff, multi-cc.
Blue - healing... misc.

I'd like to see LM's heal on par with a captain getting very few defeat events, provided they're spec'd blue. Right now there are potentially 4 tanking classes (for non-raid content) and basically 2 main-healing classes. all being very similar, but LM's already have the ability to heal, just for some reason it's an afterthought. The limrafn improved it quite a bit, so why not take it the next step? If you take captains as a model, healspec is not required for raids by smart leads, nor do I think it would be for LM's.

But it would let them heal 3man content as well as combo-healing a 6man with another captain or loremaster, provided they're both traited heals... which kinda gimps their other abilities = balance.

But i'd be curious as to what LM's think... Maybe you don't actually want to be healers.

Dunebug, it's great to see you here.

A couple of responses.

1. A LM can use blinding flash while traited red, but as you note, the duration is shorter. That's compensated by the dps. That is, you can choose to either lock mobs down, then burn them slowly (not red traited), or you can simply burn them down quickly (red traited). Further, it's important to note that how long you reduce the duration depends on how deeply you trait in red. More red = shorter duration. [Should also note that some armor sets actually give a bonus to blinding flash duration]
So, essentially what your friend is proposing is to eliminate the factor that balances out the extra damage provided by the red trait.

2. Regarding LM heals, see this thread.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...healing-3-mans

Am I correct to assume that our Limrafn pet gains no increased healing effectiveness from traiting keeper of animals? This need to change so that we may better heal 3-mans. I hope keeper of animals gets a general buff in update 6 (especially pet damage) so that it doesn't fall too much behind the other traitlines.

What i really want is that pets be fixed. Right now i only use my pet as a flank generator. I think that when i see an elite i need to pull my bear out because it doesn't make sense not to. or if there is a huge pull i need my lynx or saber.

Raven: raven doesn't pull that much aggro so, remove the evade skill it has and replace with a debuff that increases over time while raven is still alive, or the blood raven ability as aura buff

Lynx: i feel lynx should be only single target DPS. leave its last skill he same but slashing claws should be increased in damage but only for 1 target

Saber: make his normal attacks debuff frost mit on enemies and switch his frostbite for another AOE damage FM move

Bear: make the inc damage debuff an automatic ability, give him a skill that constantly increasing aggro on bear. his final skill should be a small HOT that also makes him impervios to attacks while dropping aggro. one would have to juggle between agggroo and heals/ recovery

eagle: think he should be left alone a great sub to lurker

lurker: aleready pretty awesome, leave it






im only lvl 66 so i cannot comment on the limfrifrafam thingy

Have enjoyed reading this thread and the potential Update 6 may have for us. The LM class is in a great spot and a good LM is very effective in all content of the game.

Our key roles are solid. We can control the pace of a fight, Debuff in various situations and crazy AOE DPS when our support is not needed. Some good ides have been suggested. Some suggestions are OP and will actually hurt our class.

Suggestions i do like:

1. Make the Improved Sticky Gourd fire a different color than mob fire - Our fire especially on larger mobs is just annoying. Needs and update if not only for the simple reason its considerate of others. Nothing like dropping sticky gourd in a PUG foundry run and watching them clear house.

2. Stack LM debuffs - Good idea if handled correctly. The initial debuff should not be affected much. Applications of further debuff should be severely affected by diminishig returns. For eg. LM 1 (No Trait)- Fire lore with 30% melee reduction for 30secs LM 2 (With Trait) - Fire lore for 60 secs will add say 2% reduction. When LM 1 expires, the debuff reverts back from 32% to 30% for last 30 secs. Without crippling mobs it still adds incentive to apply, it also will allow a second LM to DPS or provide other support as its not crucial that it be stacked.

3. Ranged slot.. lets get creative


Suggestions (not too happy with)

I will not point out the specific ideas that wont work. Instead will talk about these in general.

1. We are not a healing class. Our healing is OP as it is. Our spot heals make the class something special to play. I am actually really happy with the fact we are there for those top up heals. Many times members have received this 3000 heal when critted and thought to them selves "thats a bonus". I like that we arent expected to heal, yet we can help out. Please dont change it!!

2. Pets could have their numbers readjusted. Nothing more really. Mabye some food but we have a diverse range of skills.

3. Any improvement to CC... We dont need it. Locking down mobs for a large percentage of a fight is what we do anyway. Any LM who doesnt use Blinding Flash (no induction) in melee range needs to try it out no and then. Its amazing how long they sleep for during a fight.


My own thoughts - I sit down and turn on Lotro.. play my LM and love it until i get. "Stun immunity please". Like clawing a chalkboard, shredding my ear drums. Only thing i dislike about an LM.

Its an awesome skill that is helpful. Applying SI in must have situations is no issue for me. Trash pulls that knock you out for 3seconds... Get over it and let me introduce you to a new concept. Opportunity cost!! Too often have i argued... im more useful not applying SI to you.

My only real contribution to this thread is this... Give our SI a much needed boost. It is unique to our class and also a burden misunderstood by other classes.

I usually apply SI through target forwarding, losing no momentum on dps. For an instance like the Foundry i find it only crucial to have on 2 members. I would like to make it a bit easier.

An AOE stun immunity is too OP. I like the fact our SI is reactive to silence and dont think this should be changed to prevent it.

Suggestion - When applying SI your selected target +1 gets the benefit. A new toggle skill that "marks" a member and also receives SI when used. Another option which is less effective but still viableis to link it to continual air lore and not have a new skill.

Example - Before entering last boss in foundry, mark the healer with this new toggle skill. During the fight, DPS the orc. I can hit SI, applying it to the tank and the healer. Also putting this skill on the healer is very useful. As soon as they get silenced, regardless of target, hit the SI skill and healer no longer silenced.

Still requires us to prepare and recognise the need for SI and silence. Looking for a way to put some fun back into something that really has become a chore, without taking away from our current role.

AOE Stun Immunity... PLEASE!!! with 5 second cooldowns by the time you circle it around a group, there is maybe 30 or so seconds left on first target... I just get tired of hearing the hunters complaining that they got stunned... I just wanna tell em, look... if you want stun immunity, go roll a lore master, tank or healer... other than that, ur SOL bud...

Would LOVE to see a stag as well... I realize the saber is supposed to be our aoe pet... but dang its SO underpowered... a stag would be an awesomely majestic pet for a lvl 85 LM runnin around rohan...

Originally Posted by AfterFX

AOE Stun Immunity... PLEASE!!! with 5 second cooldowns by the time you circle it around a group, there is maybe 30 or so seconds left on first target... I just get tired of hearing the hunters complaining that they got stunned... I just wanna tell em, look... if you want stun immunity, go roll a lore master, tank or healer... other than that, ur SOL bud...

Would LOVE to see a stag as well... I realize the saber is supposed to be our aoe pet... but dang its SO underpowered... a stag would be an awesomely majestic pet for a lvl 85 LM runnin around rohan...

Making SI an AoE skills is OP. There is really no need to circle it around any grp if you are choosing your targets according to situation. It should go without saying that Tank and Healer will always come first in most cases.

As for hunter complaints, just my 2 cents since I do play one: they are (or should be) hecka way out of AoE range from boss/mob stuns most of the time. If they are not, that is not our job to fix unless it's clear the lack of dps'ing from an extended hunter stun will cause a wipe to the grp and it's a safe use of your time while your other more needed skills in rotation are on cd. As stated, tank / mini should be the SI priority.

hobbit and dwarf LM.

My 2 cents

MoNF - Cap : Less hit to CC

Blue line - Don't even know the name, since it sux so bad. Make it an effective healing line.
Combine Bog-Pet with Eagle trait, remove it from blue.
Make the cap a decent healing spell.

AM - Stack debuffs for multiple LMs in a raid. Diminishing returns is fine.
A debuff for target incoming healing.

Lore-master

• Lore-masters now have a choice of two items that can go in their ranged slot: the Brooch of Rage and the Brooch of Regrowth. The Brooch of Rage increases the Lore-master pet’s critical rating while the Brooch of Regrowth increases the pet’s in-combat morale regeneration and evade rating. Both of these items are available via multi-output Jeweler recipes. Aside from the Tier 2 recipe which is available from the Novice Jeweler vendor, these recipes can be found via treasure for Tiers 3 through 7.
• New talismans are available for the Lore master class: Talisman of Nature. These talismans will turn the Lore-master's Spirit of Nature pet into one of the following: Sprit of the Raven, Spirit of the Bear, Spirit of the Lynx and Spirit of the Saber-cat. These talismans are made via a multi-output, single-shot Jeweler recipe. The recipe requires Friend standing with the Men of Dunland and can be found on the Dunlending Quartermaster in Galtrev. There are also a couple of stand-alone talismans that can be found as drops in the new instance.
• Lore-master's Improved Sticky Gourd's burning fire will now last as long as the damaging effects. No more getting burned after the fire goes out.

Spirit of the Raven ?

I can't wait to check this on bullroarer ...

3 hours to go .

Originally Posted by Louvre

Spirit of the Raven ?

I can't wait to check this on bullroarer ...

3 hours to go .

Something like the Huntsman Wild Hunt quest spirits maybe?

More interested in

There are also a couple of stand-alone talismans that can be found as drops in the new instance.

Does this mean there are going to be instance-exclusive pet skins or are they just alternative sources?

Also "the new instance" seems to imply that we're getting a new instance.

Either way, can't wait to see what they are.

LM Melee attack and number of options needs to be upped full stop! I find as a healer, my healing is not worth having, and I die quickly in combat if I get surrounded because my decent attacks take far too long to charge up and get interrupted too easily.

Okay, I have too many ideas for new skills, but i alo have an idea for skills only unlockable by doing a new class quest (how i miss those days!) So, i'll start with the class quest skills:
Lore of the Dwarves: Your studies of the Ancient Dwarf Kingdoms and Dwarf families allows you to inspire them to greater skills. +25 Agility.
Lore of the Elves: Your understanding of the Firstborn's sorrow allows you to strengthen thir resolve. +25 will.
Lore of Men: Your knowledge of the ways of men allows you to grant their desire for greater strength. +25 might
Lore of the Hobbits: Your study of the little-folk and their innocent ways allows you to remind them of their fair land far off. +1 hope.
Lore of the Free People's (legendary): Your studies of the free people's is unmatched b even the Wise. You can inspire them in the most desperate of times. +25 will, +25 might, +25 agility, +1 hope. Duration 1minute 30seconds.
Each Lore of the xxxx would buff only that race, and the skill would only be unlocked after some kind of quest studying that race. The legendary skill would be unlocked at the end, similar to the eagle trait.

New blue trait capstone:
Call To Nature: You are at harmony with nature, and in times of desperate need can call to your animal allies to save you. A swarm of Ravens attacks your foes, doesing AoE damage and increasing their miss chance by 30%.

Crowd Control skills:
Call of the Beasts: You call to the creatures of the wild, encouraging them to roar at your foes. 30second fear.
Wind of the Tundra: A lore-master's knowledge of nature allows them to summon forth the chilling winds of the tundra. AoE damage (low) and 15s daze.

DPS skills:
Heart of Ice: You strike your foe with a heart piercing chill, doing damage over time to your foe. 75-115 damage every 4 seconds for 20 seconds. (single target)
Roots of the Earth: As a Master of Nature, you can call forth the very roots of the earth to strike you foes, leaving spikey thorns within them. 270 damage initially, 40-70 damage every 5 seconds for 10 seconds.

Yeah yeah, I know these skill will never be added, always going to be considered to OP, yadda yadda yadda. But hey, I can dream cant I? hehe, anyway, just my hopes and dreams for my Lore-Master

*BIG SHOW LIGHTS* MAKE WISDOM OF THE COUNCIL SCALEABLE TO RETURN 50% OF MAX MORALE.
seriously, i loved this skill when i first got it, worked great through moria, then RoI came out and i realised i could no longer rely on it. please scale it per level, even if its not 50%

Originally Posted by Tequiero2020

Below is the list of the legacies that could be added to benefit Lore-master:

Remove "out of combat power reg." from all LM related LIs (and other items) and use something MORE usefull.

Regards
CA

We could do with more frost spells for those situations when stuff has good fire resist, tie frost skills to Keeper of Animals as well...(so there not that powerful)

So Keeper of Animals has Frost Skills/Water Skills/Healing
Master of Natures Fury has Fire Skills/Lightning Skills
Then Ancient Master has the best debuffs xD

Originally Posted by Geindir

Crowd Control skills:
Call of the Beasts: You call to the creatures of the wild, encouraging them to roar at your foes. 30second fear.

OMG Amazing skill =D

Been digging around for this post for a while now. I had a thought that as a LM is primarily a support class, if we are to have any more skills then they should really be buffs or de-buffs. So, in the spirit of this, why not post my new list
Sign of Power: Knowledge: Gives a +30 will to the fellowship for 5 minutes
Beast-lore: +10% melee damage to the fellowship for 1 minute.
Mists of the Anduin: you call the mists of the Anduin to encircle your foes. +15% miss chance, +20% attack duration
let me know your thoughts, enjoy

Originally Posted by Geindir

Been digging around for this post for a while now. I had a thought that as a LM is primarily a support class, if we are to have any more skills then they should really be buffs or de-buffs. So, in the spirit of this, why not post my new list
Sign of Power: Knowledge: Gives a +30 will to the fellowship for 5 minutes
Beast-lore: +10% melee damage to the fellowship for 1 minute.
Mists of the Anduin: you call the mists of the Anduin to encircle your foes. +15% miss chance, +20% attack duration
let me know your thoughts, enjoy

The proposed Sign of Power wouldn't really benefit anyone except ourselves really, and we already have more Will then anybody with our Passive: Ancient Wisdom.

Beast-Lore: Maybe it should only effect the Pet's and be a bigger value, as an offset the pet cannot use Skills while this is in effect.

Mists: Sounds like a good idea, however we cover miss chance and attack duration debuffs pretty well, maybe a Minor Frost Dmg spell, which 'stealths' just the Lore-Master, perfect for losing aggro, but having a pretty hefty cooling period.