Update 6 Lore-master changes proposal: Guide for Raskolnikov

Dec 10 2011 03:21 PM

Lots of other classes created a guide for the class developer to know about their wishes how the class could be improved further. Let’s make such a guide for our dear Raskolnikov! Thanks to his efforts the changes implemented with the Rise of Isengard improved Lore-master greatly. But there are still some issues to focus on in Update 6. Apart from some traits and skills changes, which could be easily implemented, the main efforts should be focused be on legendary legacies changes. Nothing has ever been done to improve the situation. One support legacy has recently been removed, decreasing the number of non-damage legacies we currently have. Finally we are still waiting for our long-long ago promised ranged slot item. I encourage you to join the discussion and speak out your suggestions. So let’s focus on my suggestions more detailed. [My explanations are in square brackets].

Master of the Staff: additionally Staff-sweep is more damaging, deals Light damage, restores bonus power with flanked enemies and disarms opponents on critical hit (+5% max morale moved to Awareness of Body) [It is very strange that Master of the Staff trait does not affect Staff-sweep at all. If you are a real master, then all your melee attacks should be more powerful]
Awareness of Body: additionally +5% max morale (from Master of the Staff) [If implementing the above change, Moral boost should be moved to Awareness of Body, because this trait is a bit underpowered. Morale cost of skills is really negligible at high levels, so there is no need to equip this trait, as it is now]
Tactically Adept: Sticky Gourd induction removed [This is fair. Why to occupy the whole trait slot with such a trait? What will dramatically change, if induction is removed? This trait will at list look more attractive]
Knowledge of the Past: -5% Tactical Skills Power Cost instead of -3% [Why do Minstrels and Rune-keepers have -5% power reduction, while the best Power managers in the game (Lore-masters) only have -3%? Who could explain this?]

The Study of Fire-lore: -5% Melee Damage for Fire Lore, +8% Fire Lore Miss Chance [Look at The Study of Frost-lore and Wind-lore. Compare the worthiness of both traits with this one. It should be buffed to be in line with the above two traits]
Improved Sign of Power Command: evade and block chance decreased by the same amount as parry, further reduction of block, parry, evade Rating [Another underpowered trait. Why are evade and block chances decreased to the less amount than parry? And even if this is corrected, reduction of BPE should go a bit further for this trait to occupy a trait slot]
The Ancient Master [2]: +15s Bane Flare Daze Duration [Look at these trait set bonuses! For a long time The Ancient Master trait line contains the weakest set bonuses in comparison with the other two trait lines. Let’s change these bonuses to make them really powerful and needed. Particularly this +2 Bane Flare Targets bonus is of no use]
The Ancient Master [3]: Cracked Earth’s root applies 5 seconds earlier, -15s Dispel Corruption Cooldown [ Lots of classes can manage corruptions much better than Lore-masters. Dispel Corruption is not affected by any improvement yet]
The Ancient Master [4]: Warding Knowledge now works on all genera and its target damage debuff works for melee and ranged skills as well [Let The Ancient Master get something really interesting as we trait deeper into The Ancient Master trait line!]

The Keeper of Animals [3]: additionally +50% chance to Air-lore Damage Mitigation [Let The Keeper of Animals improve Air-lore Mitigation step by step. The current situation with this skill is still not fair: Nothing (1%) or everything (100%)]

Now let’s speak about legacies. Currently there is no opportunity to make a debuff or support staff. We have a lot of useless damage legacies, which are abandoned in favor of the most popular ones. Who would ever use +15% Light of the Rising Dawn Critical multiplier instead of +10% Tactical Skills Direct Damage, +25% Fire Skills Critical Multiplier or -5s Staff-strike Cooldown? The legacies mentioned below could be removed and replaced with support and debuff legacies:
Cracked Earth Range
Light of the Rising Dawn Critical Multiplier
Burning Embers Range
Gust of Wind Damage
Lightning Skills Critical Rating
Storm Lore Damage
Test of Will Damage
Bane Flare Targets
Duration Curing Skills Resistance (already removed)
Test of Will Devastate Damage

Below is the list of the legacies that could be added to benefit Lore-master:
-5s Knowledge of Cures Cooldown [There should be opportunity for this skill to be the same as it previously was]
-30s Fire-lore Cooldown [You often kill the group of mobs and face another one before cooldown of this skill is over]
-30s Ancient Craft Cooldown [The same situation as with Fire-lore: Very important skill with too long cooldown]
-30s Frost-lore Cooldown [To be in line with Wind-lore and the proposed legacy for Fire-lore]
+7% Gust of Wind Miss Chance
+8% Warding Knowledge Miss Chance
+10% Sign of Power: Command Attack Duration
+Air-lore Mitigation and Reflection Magnitude
+15% Flank Heal
-30s Bane Flare Cooldown [Together with the trait set bonus mentioned above this change will make the skill interesting and powerful enough]

Other issues to be solved:
Spirit of Nature could gain its own pet food (probably the same as Bog-guardian: “You spray some water on the Spirit of Nature and it shines brighter =^_^=) and some talismans to alter its appearance (green, red, blue shining maybe)
Pet skills minor bug after introducing of Return to Master to be addressed and pet damage to be buffed
Delay after activation of Call to the Valar should be removed
SoP: Righteousness could provide silence immunity (perhaps it could be solved later on with the skill upgrade)
Passive Skill: Range Slot Item usage to be finally added!

Dec 10 2011 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tequiero2020

Lots of other classes created a guide for the class developer to know about their wishes how the class could be improved further. Let’s make such a guide for our dear Raskolnikov! Thanks to his efforts the changes implemented with the Rise of Isengard improved Lore-master greatly. But there are still some issues to focus on in Update 6. Apart from some traits and skills changes, which could be easily implemented, the main efforts should be focused be on legendary legacies changes. Nothing has ever been done to improve the situation. One support legacy has recently been removed, decreasing the number of non-damage legacies we currently have. Finally we are still waiting for our long-long ago promised ranged slot item. I encourage you to join the discussion and speak out your suggestions. So let’s focus on my suggestions more detailed. [My explanations are in square brackets].

Master of the Staff: additionally Staff-sweep is more damaging, deals Light damage, restores bonus power with flanked enemies and disarms opponents on critical hit (+5% max morale moved to Awareness of Body) [It is very strange that Master of the Staff trait does not affect Staff-sweep at all. If you are a real master, then all your melee attacks should be more powerful]
Awareness of Body: additionally +5% max morale (from Master of the Staff) [If implementing the above change, Moral boost should be moved to Awareness of Body, because this trait is a bit underpowered. Morale cost of skills is really negligible at high levels, so there is no need to equip this trait, as it is now]
Tactically Adept: Sticky Gourd induction removed [This is fair. Why to occupy the whole trait slot with such a trait? What will dramatically change, if induction is removed? This trait will at list look more attractive]
Knowledge of the Past: -5% Tactical Skills Power Cost instead of -3% [Why do Minstrels and Rune-keepers have -5% power reduction, while the best Power managers in the game (Lore-masters) only have -3%? Who could explain this?]

The Study of Fire-lore: -5% Melee Damage for Fire Lore, +8% Fire Lore Miss Chance [Look at The Study of Frost-lore and Wind-lore. Compare the worthiness of both traits with this one. It should be buffed to be in line with the above two traits]
Improved Sign of Power Command: evade and block chance decreased by the same amount as parry, further reduction of block, parry, evade Rating [Another underpowered trait. Why are evade and block chances decreased to the less amount than parry? And even if this is corrected, reduction of BPE should go a bit further for this trait to occupy a trait slot]
The Ancient Master [2]: +15s Bane Flare Daze Duration [Look at these trait set bonuses! For a long time The Ancient Master trait line contains the weakest set bonuses in comparison with the other two trait lines. Let’s change these bonuses to make them really powerful and needed. Particularly this +2 Bane Flare Targets bonus is of no use]
The Ancient Master [3]: Cracked Earth’s root applies 5 seconds earlier, -15s Dispel Corruption Cooldown [ Lots of classes can manage corruptions much better than Lore-masters. Dispel Corruption is not affected by any improvement yet]
The Ancient Master [4]: Warding Knowledge now works on all genera and its target damage debuff works for melee and ranged skills as well [Let The Ancient Master get something really interesting as we trait deeper into The Ancient Master trait line!]

The Keeper of Animals [3]: additionally +50% chance to Air-lore Damage Mitigation [Let The Keeper of Animals improve Air-lore Mitigation step by step. The current situation with this skill is still not fair: Nothing (1%) or everything (100%)]

Now let’s speak about legacies. Currently there is no opportunity to make a debuff or support staff. We have a lot of useless damage legacies, which are abandoned in favor of the most popular ones. Who would ever use +15% Light of the Rising Dawn Critical multiplier instead of +10% Tactical Skills Direct Damage, +25% Fire Skills Critical Multiplier or -5s Staff-strike Cooldown? The legacies mentioned below could be removed and replaced with support and debuff legacies:
Cracked Earth Range
Light of the Rising Dawn Critical Multiplier
Burning Embers Range
Gust of Wind Damage
Lightning Skills Critical Rating
Storm Lore Damage
Test of Will Damage
Bane Flare Targets
Duration Curing Skills Resistance (already removed)
Test of Will Devastate Damage

Below is the list of the legacies that could be added to benefit Lore-master:
-5s Knowledge of Cures Cooldown [There should be opportunity for this skill to be the same as it previously was]
-30s Fire-lore Cooldown [You often kill the group of mobs and face another one before cooldown of this skill is over]
-30s Ancient Craft Cooldown [The same situation as with Fire-lore: Very important skill with too long cooldown]
-30s Frost-lore Cooldown [To be in line with Wind-lore and the proposed legacy for Fire-lore]
+7% Gust of Wind Miss Chance
+8% Warding Knowledge Miss Chance
+10% Sign of Power: Command Attack Duration
+Air-lore Mitigation and Reflection Magnitude
+15% Flank Heal
-30s Bane Flare Cooldown [Together with the trait set bonus mentioned above this change will make the skill interesting and powerful enough]

Other issues to be solved:
Spirit of Nature could gain its own pet food (probably the same as Bog-guardian: “You spray some water on the Spirit of Nature and it shines brighter =^_^=) and some talismans to alter its appearance (green, red, blue shining maybe)
Pet skills minor bug after introducing of Return to Master to be addressed
Call to the Valar should reset cooldown of Dispel Corruption, and delay after its activation should be removed
Improved Sticky Gourd should benefit from Fire Skills Damage over Time
Flank heal should benefit from Healer trait
SoP: Righteousness could provide silence immunity (perhaps it could be solved later on with the skill upgrade)
Passive Skill: Range Slot Item usage to be finally added!

/signed
I like a lot of these changes. I think MoNF is good where it's at now, but the AM changes look good. What I'd really like to see would be the AM (2) line bonus cause bane flare to affect other creature types instead of the number it affected (e.g. "Bane Flare now affects the dead, ancient evil, men, dwarves, and orcs), that'd really restore our usefulness as a CC master without making us OP. I hardly ever use bane flare now that blinding flash works on the dead.

I also really liked the new legacy propositions. Our yellow capstone may need to be altered to avoid making some of them OP, however.

I think the blue line needs more love. I never see people trait down it (unless it's specifically for the bog-lurker). I feel that, ideally, a full blue's pet would do a significant amount of damage (by this, i mean it would be almost on par with a non-MoNF LM), while the LM could easily heal three-mans, and heal 6-mans with a lot of skill. There would also possibly be a damage penalty to the LM to balance it out.

Dec 10 2011 05:36 PM

Improved Sticky Gourd should benefit from Fire Skills Damage over Time

Flank heal should benefit from Healer trait

ISG is affected by that legacy (and your Will in general) as of ROI.
Flank heal is going to be affected by outgoing healing (to include Healer) as of Update 5.

I would really love to see the ranged items added for LM, or at least my instrument that affects healing crit/power cost apply to LMs in addition to minis. If I can wear it, it should affect my skills!

Dec 10 2011 05:44 PM

Most of the trait changes I could go with. Warding Lore affecting all damage is encroaching too much on burglar territory (we already have AC & SaE (with set bonus) to significantly increase all incoming damage) and would make LMs better at both offensive and defensive debuffing than burglars. As someone else said, I'd much rather see Bane Flare work on any mob type, but it shouldn't be buffed as much as you are suggesting. An AoE 30s cd/30s duration mez in addition to our other CC is too much.

Current legacies... do not remove BE range. The rest I wouldn't really miss.

New legacies... those would make the AM line much less appealing as there would be no need to trait AM for permanent debuffs. We could use a few more support legacies on a staff and some decent pool B book legacies, though. Some examples at max tier:

+5s Blinding Flash duration (Staff pool A)
+15s Bane Flare duration (Staff pool B, with the AM set bonus making it affect any genus but not changing duration/cd)
-60s Herb-Lore CD (Staff pool B)
-10s BoH CD (Book pool B)
-5s Knowledge of Cures CD (Book pool B)

CttV does reset Dispel Corruption now & SoP:R providing silence immunity would be overpowered in the moors... it would be ok for say 10-15 seconds after using the skill, but not for 1m30s.

Dec 10 2011 06:20 PM

Some things I would like to see:
- some petdamage scaling
- already mentioned ranged slot
- scaling eagle aura or at least a legacy to improve the aura.
- add combatsummoning to noble savage
- increase survivability for pets (e.g. reduce aoe-damage taken)
- attacks which depend on the type of pet we are using. maybe something like this:
"combined attack"
If the target is flanked by your animal, you can attack with your pet simultanously.
Depending on the pet this attack has different effects:
bear: bear becomes target of the enemy
raven: the next 3 tacticalskills deal 20% more damage.
lynx: a deep wound
sabretoothcat: aoe-attack with staff and kitty's claws
boglurker: Target becomes rooted and disarmed for 5-10 seconds
eagle: flankheal for the whole group

Dec 11 2011 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by TinDragon

ISG is affected by that legacy (and your Will in general) as of ROI.
Flank heal is going to be affected by outgoing healing (to include Healer) as of Update 5.

Originally Posted by Tarenius

CttV does reset Dispel Corruption now

Thanks! I was not up-to-date with the above issues. Changed in my first post.

Dec 11 2011 02:02 AM

pf

Originally Posted by Tarenius

Current legacies... do not remove BE range. The rest I wouldn't really miss.

New legacies... those would make the AM line much less appealing as there would be no need to trait AM for permanent debuffs. We could use a few more support legacies on a staff and some decent pool B book legacies, though.

Burning embers range is nice to have for Pvmp so dont throw that out and if you added those cd cooldowns on our debuffs it really would make our Am trait line not needed at all so just throw those out.

-I do agree that SoP: command should get stronger when traited since finesse now makes a factor in stats now and this doesnt seem to be tuned to the new stat.

-Our warding lore is much improved when traited now to affect eveything but I do feel that the 10% tact only damage is a bit useless as in a raid what other tact is there that is dps traited??? The mini and RK are on healing duty on most raids there for the 10% tact is wasted. I know it would intrude on burg territory if it allowed melee/range but at least add those to some degree to 5% or even 3%, just something to make it more useful.

-Our range slot item is something im really looking foward tooo as we need something in there now that our pets are not as strong as everyone has pointed out, they cant take the hits or give them out like they could at 65.

-Like you said more trait benefits on the AM line would be greatly appreciated. I would like for our dispel to have a -15s cd when traited at least 3 AM as we are nessacary on keeping an eye on the enemy buff/debuff and act appropretly. Im not familiar with other classes besides wardens and minis that can remove corrution but they got other things to focus on.

-We need an increase in our power drain on a defult. While traited it is very helpful but will our newfound will come the problem of power comsumption at higher lvls along with your team. It is very hard to keep power to a team (if they are power hungry) without traiting for power drain. I know thats the point of the trait but it just doesnt seem to scale to the power consumption/pools of everything in RoI.

-Air-lore as been a subject of being underpowered and not scaling correctly, these are both right. It is patetic and weak and I dont ever use it unless in 3 man raids just cause I want more buffs on tank. The damage it reflects is horrendious and it should have been fixed a lot time ago. It needed to be fixed to be of any use in RoI, a reflect of 27 damage (dont remember what reflect was) is NOTHING to anyone anymore (not that it was when it came out). Raise it to at least reflect 70-80??? While that still seems low it is still a massive improvement, as for the negateted damage i'll let someone else decide.

Its late and im tired. I sure there are more things I could comment on but i'll put that off for later.

Dec 11 2011 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Tarenius

-10s BoH CD (Book pool B)

I would love everything forever if this became a thing.

Dec 11 2011 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tequiero2020

Now let’s speak about legacies. Currently there is no opportunity to make a debuff or support staff. We have a lot of useless damage legacies, which are abandoned in favor of the most popular ones. Who would ever use +15% Light of the Rising Dawn Critical multiplier instead of +10% Tactical Skills Direct Damage, +25% Fire Skills Critical Multiplier or -5s Staff-strike Cooldown? The legacies mentioned below could be removed and replaced with support and debuff legacies:
Cracked Earth Range
Light of the Rising Dawn Critical Multiplier
Burning Embers Range
Gust of Wind Damage
Lightning Skills Critical Rating
Storm Lore Damage
Test of Will Damage
Bane Flare Targets
Duration Curing Skills Resistance (already removed)
Test of Will Devastate Damage

Burning Embers Range is important in the Moors, Lightning Skills could be too (not sure on that one) - the rest seems useless to me

Dec 11 2011 08:40 AM

I like these ideas. Keep the range legacies though, they're extremely useful.

Dec 11 2011 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Chris91

Burning Embers Range is important in the Moors, Lightning Skills could be too (not sure on that one) - the rest seems useless to me

I know I preferred LotRD Crit over Damage when I had a 5th major at 65... with the amount of points available you could raise it a bit higher than the damage one.

Dec 11 2011 04:21 PM

Sorry, but all of that sounds pretty boring to me. It's just straight up buffs to stuff we can already do, not giving us more options or expanding the class at all. We already do what we do just fine, we don't need across the board buffs.

The class could use a little cleaning up, like a replacement for the cure resist legacy, and a couple of tweaks here and there especially relating to scaling but doesn't need a wholesale set of buffs. I also can't see the class getting another major overhaul just one year on from its "month of" update.

Dec 11 2011 09:33 PM

How about giving a Limrafn an ability to drain power from its target? It can give a fellowship an, say, 10% from drained amount. Or, say, 50% to LM only.

Dec 11 2011 11:00 PM

The claims that +range to Burning Embers and Cracked Earth are useless are not true. These are extremely powerful legacies and not just in the moors. +range to these skills allows you to deliver damage and CC without the need to move closer to a target. The advantages of this include: more frequent use of skills which means a more efficient LM and increased DPS, better safety, better eye on the encounter, and just plain not having to run around as much.

I certainly agree the class could be improved but be careful when making sweeping claims - this thread is not a guide but another discussion on the LM class with wildly differing opinions. We should focus on the items that are generally agreed to be truly necessary, like:

- pet damage scaling
- pet effects/auras scaling
- LM ranged slot
- better vanilla power drain scaling
- etc. (not a complete list)

I'd also suggest using attractive formatting when laying out a series of ideas. Make use of bold/titles, italics, bullet points and line spacing to make the walls of text easier to read. Otherwise a few community members may be able to follow and contribute, but the devs will just be ripping their hair out in despair.

Dec 11 2011 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by xeria

I certainly agree the class could be improved but be careful when making sweeping claims - this thread is not a guide but another discussion on the LM class with wildly differing opinions. We should focus on the items that are generally agreed to be truly necessary, like:

- pet damage scaling
- pet effects/auras scaling
- LM ranged slot
- better vanilla power drain scaling
- etc. (not a complete list)

that's a good list to start on what we need cleanup wise. I'd also like to see the CttV skills reset updated for some of our newer skills, particularly frost lore and staff sweep.

Dec 12 2011 05:26 AM

I believe some of these have been mentioned above, but I'd like to reiterate them and suggest some more ideas.

Eagle ICPR Buff - come on chaps, it hasn't been scaled past level 50. That was 3 years ago! It doesn't need a massive improvement, but it could go up a tad and this is a legendary pet after all!

Legacies - Currently staffs are dps sticks for the most part. It would be nice to have some more support legacy choices for the staffs so that we could build different staffs that didn't all focus around damage output.

Ranged Slot - Nature abhors a vacuum.

Bane Flare - Blinding Flash works on the dead too now. Perhaps Bane Floor could work on any type of mob too? We are the primary CC class after all, giving us another AOE /stun/mezz ability for all mobs isn't out of place for us.

Frost Lore - perhaps something could be done about the root effect the animation this skill has? It's just a bit too long.

Stuns - Might it be interesting for a new mechanic to be added to our stuns so that on a critical or devastating critical, in addition to the extra damage, the stun effect lasted longer? E.g. Light of the Rising Dawn could be a 5sec stun on a crit/dev crit or Test of Will could be an 8sec stun on a crit/dev crit.

Flanks - I really like the new functionality of Flanks with the Improved Flanking trait. Perhaps Flanks could be expanded further as a class mechanic? Perhaps Flanks could produce more effects with more of our skills? Using a stun with a Flank event, for example, could produce a longer stun (obviously I don't suggest this with the extra stun functionality I suggested above), or perhaps using Power of Knowledge with a Flank event returns morale instead of power, etc.

Dec 12 2011 05:49 PM

The ideas for Fire-Lore and debuffs are crazy OP IMHO.

+7% Miss chance on Gust of Wind and +8% on Warding Lore? With Raven and Fire-Lore, thats

15+10+17+10 = 52% Miss Chance. Not gonna happen. Our Miss Chance debuffs are potent enough when combined.

Fire Lore is not boosted much because most raid bosses do melee damage, tactical and ranged is only a small part of overall damage distribution. Fire Lore is already very potent, no need to buff it further.

As for legacies, your suggestions go over the top. -30s CD on AC and Lore skills? Permanent debuffs are the cornerstone of AM, the reason to trait this line. Giving that to legacies means Full KoA + potent debuffs. Not gonna happen. -15s is good enough without taking away too much from AM.

Bane Flare, I'd rather see the genus restriction lessened than buffs to duration or cooldown.

As for the Healing Boosts, Do Want. -10s BoH CD is crazy powerful again, but since they utterly failed with revamping the Limrafn (as expected, sadly), this might be the ticket to give LMs a place in 3-mans, along with Eagle + IF.

Dec 13 2011 07:35 PM

I hate it when these forums just eat your text and you have to re-post. Auto save only had about half of it

Ranged Slot - Carved Pipes crafted by woodworkers in shapes like Ent, Dragon, Bear, and so on.
DPS version that gives some effect like extra DoT pulses, crit chance, fire damage, AoE targets, etc.
Pets version that gives something like better flank chance, extra pet attack proc, pet damage buff, etc
Healer version that give something such as outgoing healing buff, reduce Beacon cooldown, +resist for cures, etc.
Debuff version that has something like reduce resist chance, extra debuff magnitude, extra mez/root duration, etc.

Ancient Master - I would really like to see "Lore" skills usable while moving when traited 4 (or 5) yellow

Keeper of Animals - Maybe turn Inner Flame into a fire-and-forget HoT when traited 4 (or 5) blue
I also want to see Combat Summoning moved from Nature-friend to either 5 blue, or Noble Savage.

Call to the Valar should reset beacon of hope.

Warding Lore should use the purple decal instead of orange, to reduce conflict with induction indicator.

Dec 15 2011 11:43 AM

We are in good shape right now.
But few tweaks or addition I would like to see to Lore-master in future.
As others mentioned - ranged class item.
Air-lore basic 1% negate chance increased to 50%, instead of fixed reflect number make it % of received damage. Deep in KoA negate damage doubled.
With Improved Inner Flame trait, 16s channeling is replaced by 3s induction, after we get 16 seconds Heal over Time. Thats the biggest issue for me right now.

Dec 16 2011 10:18 AM

If i had a do-able wish list, id love to see the "creature of nature" sacrifice changed so that it gave lms an in battle rez i know it would welcomed at least by me. i would have to believe that the sacrifice would have to have a horrible cooldown but still it would really be a nice thing to have.

Dec 16 2011 11:42 AM

Here's one I noticed last night that is really annoying...

Wisdom of the Council - please move the self-heal to the front of the animation.

I was in the Pits of Isengard (already an incredibly annoying instance for LMs with so many induction interrupts from punts), I knew I was about to get hit with AoE from the troll boss, I used WotC... and then I was dead, with the skill on cooldown.

Dec 17 2011 11:12 AM

Stances for Lore-masters!

1) Condense (Dps): The Lore-master condenses all his power in just one target.
Effect: Tranforms the AoE skills into One Target skills with more damage.

2) Full Control (Support): The Lore-master knowledge predicts the opponent's mind.
Effect: Lore-master's stun skills have a chance of not pop or remove CC diminishing returns from the target, and all of Lore-masters skills have a chance of sucking some of opponent's power.

3) Animal Roar (Pet oriented): The Lore-master's cry invokes the power of nature.
Effect: Doubles pet damage and doubles healing on pets.

Dec 17 2011 12:24 PM

Just my humble opinion,

1. I'd like to see wisdom separated into 2 skills
skill 1: the normal heal we get from wisdom should around 2.5k - 3.5k 5minute cooldown as it is.
skill 2: the 1minute buff we get from wisdom possibly 3-4minute cooldown? with legacies from staff that either increase the duration or reduce cooldown.

2. Improve the Eagle's ICPR

3. Improve the trait Study of Fire-lore into:
-5% melee damage and probably increase the miss chance, the only reason i trait The Study of firelore is because of the miss chance, probably should make it worthwhile traiting

4. Improve Flanking trait: It would be great if it also increase the heal from flanks by 5% or 10% or 15%?

5. Force of Will instead of increasing duration of debuffs by 30s, why not reduce the cooldown by 30s, though this will means that we need to spam more which also results more power consumption, but i have seen too many times that mobs die faster or they just wipe the debuff

6. Combat summoning: i'd like to see this skill available by traiting 4 blues? or less..

7. Bog guardian: just to even summon this pet i need to trait 5 blues and cap it with legendary trait and i still get common damage, yea i know i know people are dont really care about it... at least please consider giving it some other damage type instead of common.

8. We already have skills which gives Stun immunity and stealth detection, i was wondering if we can upgrade stealth detection by also giving crit defence by traiting at least 2-4 blue lines? probably +500 crit defence or 1k if you're generous

thats all from me kthxbai

Dec 17 2011 12:53 PM

I would love to see the range on Ancient Craft and the distance between targets on Lightning-storm increased a little bit. Nothing too major, but 20m for Ancient Craft (same range for RK Lightning skills) and 10m distance between prime target on Lightning Storm and any other targets should be a decent increase without making it overpowered. (Right now our Lightning Storm's distance between targets is almost as bad as Split Shot for hunters, although at least our damage is size-ably higher on our skill.)

Originally Posted by Vandellia

If i had a do-able wish list, id love to see the "creature of nature" sacrifice changed so that it gave lms an in battle rez i know it would welcomed at least by me. i would have to believe that the sacrifice would have to have a horrible cooldown but still it would really be a nice thing to have.

The eagle (a legendary trait required pet) has a skill that does this already. I highly doubt that they would add in the same skill for a non-legendary trait pet. I would much prefer to see the skill stay as an AoE heal.

Dec 17 2011 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by abukia222

2. Improve the Eagle's ICPR

Totally agree. It didn't scale for 30 levels... It isn't up to date anymore, neither was it in moria.

Originally Posted by abukia222

3. Improve the trait Study of Fire-lore into:
-5% melee damage and probably increase the miss chance, the only reason i trait The Study of firelore is because of the miss chance, probably should make it worthwhile traiting

What else can I say than "I agree". Study of Fire-Lore is a trait I only equip to fill the fifth AM-slot for Force of Will

Originally Posted by abukia222

4. Improve Flanking trait: It would be great if it also increase the heal from flanks by 5% or 10% or 15%?

The trait is good as it is, but a little improvement would be nice. 5-10% sound ok.

Originally Posted by abukia222

5. Force of Will instead of increasing duration of debuffs by 30s, why not reduce the cooldown by 30s, though this will means that we need to spam more which also results more power consumption, but i have seen too many times that mobs die faster or they just wipe the debuff

Well... yes i would like that too. It would give us more flexibilty at the cost of power.

Originally Posted by abukia222

6. Combat summoning: i'd like to see this skill available by traiting 4 blues? or less..

I would prefer noble savage. It's legendary and seems a little weak for nonKoA-Loremasters. I think Combat summoning should stay legendary, but not tied that much to KoA. For me Noble Savage seems to be the best solution. It would turn Noble Savage to a nice choice for AM too.

Originally Posted by abukia222

7. Bog guardian: just to even summon this pet i need to trait 5 blues and cap it with legendary trait and i still get common damage, yea i know i know people are dont really care about it... at least please consider giving it some other damage type instead of common.

In relation to its "costs" it wouldn't be too much. 5 KoA-traits and a legendary trait.

My ideas for Pets:
-vary petdamagetype depending on equipped ranged-slot. (like minstrels instruments)
-Combat summoning added to Noble Savage
-coordinated attack of Loremaster and pet with various effect depending on type of pet. about 1 min CD
-let sturdy companion and noble savage increase the healing of the limrafn as much as tehy increase the damage of other pets.

Dec 17 2011 06:03 PM

I like most of the proposed changes, they´re well thought, and clearly the class could use some good buffs. Props to OP

Dec 19 2011 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tatharil

I would prefer noble savage. It's legendary and seems a little weak for nonKoA-Loremasters. I think Combat summoning should stay legendary, but not tied that much to KoA. For me Noble Savage seems to be the best solution. It would turn Noble Savage to a nice choice for AM too.

This is a good suggestion. Didnt think of it lol...

Dec 19 2011 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Tatharil

attacks which depend on the type of pet we are using. maybe something like this:
"combined attack"
If the target is flanked by your animal, you can attack with your pet simultanously.
Depending on the pet this attack has different effects:
bear: bear becomes target of the enemy
raven: the next 3 tacticalskills deal 20% more damage.
lynx: a deep wound
sabretoothcat: aoe-attack with staff and kitty's claws
boglurker: Target becomes rooted and disarmed for 5-10 seconds
eagle: flankheal for the whole group

I actually like this idea. It has the potential for some neat new mechanics. Not necessarily the specific effects you mention but the idea itself is a neat one.

I also like the idea of giving us a legacy or two which, when maxed out, let us regain much of our old wound/disease cure capabilities. (if not the total regaining of the zero CD, at least an easing of the three effect limit)
The nerf was really really painful for me.
Yeah, we're LMs. We adapt and improvise. We're still kicking butt.
But I thought the nerf was way too severe.
4 years gets you attached to things

(my fellowship says to me "Elvi, can you grab that wound, my pot's on cooldown."
To actually have to say "sorry, cant. Im on CD" is the stuff of my nightmares lol)

Dec 19 2011 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vandellia

If i had a do-able wish list, id love to see the "creature of nature" sacrifice changed so that it gave lms an in battle rez i know it would welcomed at least by me. i would have to believe that the sacrifice would have to have a horrible cooldown but still it would really be a nice thing to have.

That would mean it would go back to actually sacrificing itself? Or do you just mean change the current skill (skill #3)? The eagle already has this ability and imo it might be needlessly duplicated. Or do you mean an in battle rez for other players? That would be an interesting/good addition. I do have to say that the current skill is pretty useful and I'm finding it to be the best change (along with the passive - which seems to NOT be a passive for all mobs, but a skill it slaps onto one mob out of many

).

Dec 19 2011 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by MysterX

Here's one I noticed last night that is really annoying...

Wisdom of the Council - please move the self-heal to the front of the animation.

I was in the Pits of Isengard (already an incredibly annoying instance for LMs with so many induction interrupts from punts), I knew I was about to get hit with AoE from the troll boss, I used WotC... and then I was dead, with the skill on cooldown.

Oh yes, this please! It's been like this forever and annoys me so much when it happens to me every once in a while. Seems to be an unintended effect - surely it's not meant that you hit the button in time, die anyway and have the skill on cooldown. I pull my hair out a bit less now the cooldown of WotC has been reduced, but still, it should be an easy fix.

Dec 19 2011 01:39 PM

I have just one thing i want to see changed:

The bear has an attack that makes an npc focus on it, problem is in the moors this is useless. Would be nice it would affect real players by disarming them or so, and so making the bear usefull to a reaver etc.

Not that the focus on bear thing dissapears, just against real players make it disarm

Dec 20 2011 02:26 AM

Just a couple of suggestions.

- continual air lore loss on pets whenever mounted. Captains have the same problem with their 'brother' skills. So if a fix is coming for them. Can we have ours fixed as well?

- a way to change our pet's damage type either through pet cosmetics or by reflecting our weapon's damage type.

- let the pet skill, rally!, be usable in combat so that we do not have to suffer so much for the poor A.I. pathfinding. The skill's use can be reverted to being out of combat only after the pathfinding has been improved which I am not particularly hopeful for.

Dec 21 2011 11:08 PM

It would be nice to make all pets same level as LM (and limmie +3 lvl as I heard).

Dec 22 2011 03:04 PM

There are some good suggestions in this thread. Personally, I felt like the new LM ToO skill set bonuses were lacking luster in many cases particularly 5 set blue, 3 set yellow, 3 set red

Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Spirit of Nature pet food to increase miss chance and miss chance radiance as well as outgoing healing.

2. Spirit of Nature talisman

3. Sign of Righteousness - Improved Sign of Righteousness: gains silence and disarm immunity

4. Sign of Vigilance - Improved Sign of Vigilance: If target is attacked from stealth, attacker is rooted for 3s

5. Force of Will - Legendary Trait gains -5% Finesse

6. Critical Hits - Make 125% stun duration (LotRD: 4s, Storm Lore 4s, Bear Hug 4s, Staff Strike: 5s (no change), ToW 6s, Bane Flare 6s, Lightning Storm 6s, Bursting Root 8s)

7. Devastate Hits - Make 150% stun duration (LotRD: 5s, Storm Lore 5s, Bear Hug 5s, Staff Strike: 8s, ToW 8s, Bane Flare 8s, Lightning Storm 8s, Bursting Root 9s)

8. Power and Wisdom Trait is now lackluster. Do 1 of 2 things:
a. 5% increase to Will
b. -20% Share the Power distribution, share the power is AoE (or make this 2 set bonus for yellow line)

9. Bane Flare functionality - needs improvement at least for all targets or for the dead it adds some bonus

10. Sign of Power Endow: Attacker is disarmed if target is attacked

11. Stances: Friend of Animals, Nature's Fury, Keeper of Knowledge

a. FoA: Healing +10%, Pet Skill Cooldown and power cost reduced by 20%, LM Threat decreased
b. MoNF: Power Cost +30%, Tactical Skill Induction = 0, +10% Incoming Damage
c. KoN: -10% Incoming Damage, small chance to increase debuff duration by 5s, +5% Will

12. Legacy Changes (consolidated here):

a. Change "Lightning Storm Damage" to "Lightning Skills Damage?" - The trait changed, so, thinking it makes sense to change the legacy.

b. Consolidate the +Targets legacies. We could just have a minor that was +xTargets to AoE Debuff Skills (Bane flare, fire-lore, frost-lore, ancient craft).

c. NEW legacy - "Reduce Cooldown/Induction of Pet Skills" - This would reduce cooldown of any pet skill as well as Combat Summoning and it would also reduce pet summoning skills (which we used to have but now has a better purpose due to combat summon)

d. NEW Legacy - "+Range to DPS skills" to replace the BE and CE one

e. NEW Legacy - "+x% to Warding Circle Effects"

f. NEW Legacy - "+x% effects from flanked events (damage and heals)

13. Range slot items please!!!

Dec 22 2011 10:26 PM