Thread: Reaver Sprint?

After playing in the moors for some time, it's become increasingly annoying, whenever I'm fighting a champion, even with help from other creeps, to see him blow Sprint, and run away from me into NPCs or a pack of freeps, where I can't touch him, and I can't catch him. I can't count the number of times I've had a champ (or guardian, for that matter) sprint away from me leaving me in the dust, having no hopes of catching him.

Frustrating as this can be, I'm not asking for a nerf on champion/guardian Sprint. However, I would like to see a change be made so that Reavers also have a skill similar to this. We constantly have to charge into the fray of battle, risking our necks (and usually losing them), to get a kill. We ought to have a way to get out of it, just like champs and guardians do.

Now, I'm sure there a lot of you are thinking "So what? Reavers get 200% run speed on Charge, we don't. Why should Reavers get another run buff?". While yes, Charge is very useful for the Reaver, there are two huge problems with it.

1. It's an out-of-combat only skill.
2. It's only 8 seconds

Usually those two reasons aren't a big deal in a 1v1, but in a RvR, Charge is practically useless to a Reaver, unless he just entered the battle and sees a running freep with low morale. If he's already there, most of the time he'll have already used up 2-3 seconds of the Charge before he's even at the target he wants to attack. Once Charge is gone, he's opened himself up to mezzes, roots, and stuns. Meaning that he needs to allow a minimum of 2 seconds if he wants a shot at making it back to safety after attacking his target. On average this means the Reaver will have about 4 seconds max to attack his target. If it's someone being attacked by other creeps, he might have a shot at killing him. If it's just him doing the attacks, it'll be darn near useless, unless he's willing to die for the kill. Even after that, he's still subject to the dps and onslaught of all the hunters and champions in the raid he just charged, and he might not make it out alive, mezzed or not.

That's why I think Reavers should be given a Sprint. Which will allow them to stay in a fight a little bit longer, without signing their own certificate of death. Or, should a champ get any ideas about running to his npc/group, the Reaver can chase him down. Obviously the Sprint should have an equal length time of the Champ/guard sprint (I'm not sure how long the guardian sprint lasts, so if someone could tell me that'd be great!), but a longer CD for reavers would be fine with me.

So, what does everyone else think about the suggestion?

Thats what wls and defilers are for.

Unfortunately there isn't always a WL or defiler at every single RvR, and even then, it's unlikely he'll be able to outheal the DPS which freeps do when I'm that far out. All of this is assuming a WL or defiler even notices me enough to bother throwing a heal, because experience has taught me, that unless I'm grouped with one, odds are, heals will be few and far between.

Totally agree!

Far too many cowardly guar/champ, use their "heroic" sprint to bugger off/flee/scamper/run like a girl!!

Give the reaver a longer cd, and make it in/or out of combat.

Originally Posted by jadacakai

Give the reaver a longer cd, and make it in/or out of combat.

Give them a ranged skill that hits for 2000 too while you're at it. Wait, nevermind they have it.

Anyway, good to see other creeps with goggles on asking for arguably the 2nd strongest creep class to get buffed.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Give them a ranged skill that hits for 2000 too while you're at it. Wait, nevermind they have it.

Cut the sarcasm please, I didn't make this topic to start a flamewar. (Also, I'm pretty sure it only hits for around 1k unless you're traited for damage or you critical)

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Anyway, good to see other creeps with goggles on asking for arguably the 2nd strongest creep class to get buffed.

It doesn't appear as though you've given any good reason for why this is a bad idea. Until you do, please stop flaming on my thread. As a side note, I don't think I've heard anyone call the reaver the 2nd strongest creep class in the game. I could see how the argument could be made for that if we were talking about R9+ reavers, but even then, we're far from unkillable.

I think reavers overall are in a pretty decent place right now besides dev strike being fairly meh for its power cost.

We have dying rage to run from battle if we really want to, we end up with a death but you can at least deny infamy/troll freeps.

Maybe tweaking dying rage a bit to just be a sort of in combat charge would be a nice solution. Maybe make the buffs a little less extreme(Im looking at you 100% parry), but take away the health gate and death at the end.

also maybe a crit on blade toss could unlock charge or something

I'm not sure how much a reaver sprint would do tbh. Wargs have a 20sec sprint and that's usually still not enough to catch a sprinting champ, champ sprint can go up to 45 secs so even if you stun them at the end of the warg sprint you're still only gaining a short extra time to hit until he sprints off further away. That said the warg sprint while useful for catching sprinting guards/champs has a 5 minutes cd when traited. It would be nice if the champ/guard sprint had the same cd at least.
(doesn't really fit the lore either when a hobbit/elf/man/dwarf sprint away and effectively outrun a warg)

Best thing for a reaver to stop the sprinting champs/guards would probably be a root or a long duration sprint. Usually I don't support mirrored skills, but a traited 45sec speed boost for reavers would seem fair to counter the champs. Problem though is that if the speed was similar then the sprinting champ would already have a slight headstart before you reacted to him sprinting and that's why I might think a root would be good. (usually there is a warg near a major battle so there should be someone able to stun) If both a root and a stun were used then it should buy just enough time to kill the champ.
Of course both root and sprint would never happen, but at least here are my thoughts on both. Not entirely sure which would be better though I'd think a sprint.

Originally Posted by Tron79

Maybe tweaking dying rage a bit to just be a sort of in combat charge would be a nice solution. Maybe make the buffs a little less extreme(Im looking at you 100% parry), but take away the health gate and death at the end.

I could see this as being a good solution to the problem. But at the same time, to make it fair they'd need to tweak the skill so much that it wouldn't really serve it's original purpose, which is a "Last stand".

Originally Posted by Tron79

also maybe a crit on blade toss could unlock charge or something

Ehh, I'm not sure about that. Seems like there's too much chance involved for that to work.

Originally Posted by Dawnsinger

(doesn't really fit the lore either when a hobbit/elf/man/dwarf sprint away and effectively outrun a warg)

I hadn't ever thought about that before, but that doesn't make much sense... :\

Originally Posted by Dawnsinger

Best thing for a reaver to stop the sprinting champs/guards would probably be a root or a long duration sprint. Usually I don't support mirrored skills, but a traited 45sec speed boost for reavers would seem fair to counter the champs. Problem though is that if the speed was similar then the sprinting champ would already have a slight headstart before you reacted to him sprinting and that's why I might think a root would be good. (usually there is a warg near a major battle so there should be someone able to stun) If both a root and a stun were used then it should buy just enough time to kill the champ.

I think a Sprint would be better than a root, seeing as how a Reaver having a root skill wouldn't make much sense lore-wise. While you make the point that the champ would have the head start, that would also mean he burned his skill first, so if the Reaver sprint duration was of equal time, that would mean his skill would keep running a few seconds after the champ's burned out. However the problem that does present is that the champ would still have enough of the headstart to get back to his group or npcs before the Reaver could catch him, only now, the Reaver is a little closer...Bringing us back to where we started. Any ideas on how to solve that?

Originally Posted by Andared

After playing in the moors for some time, it's become increasingly annoying, whenever I'm fighting a champion, even with help from other creeps, to see him blow Sprint, and run away from me into NPCs or a pack of freeps, where I can't touch him, and I can't catch him. I can't count the number of times I've had a champ (or guardian, for that matter) sprint away from me leaving me in the dust, having no hopes of catching him.

Warg anyone?

The problem with the Champion Sprint skill isn't the magnitude of the speed buff, it's the potential duration of the effect and the cooldown. It can be as long as 45sec with a 3min cooldown. That means the Champion only has 2:15 between Sprint uses, which is a relatively short period of time. Melee classes do need some speed buffs to allow them to get into combat and not be kited to death, but I don't think it needs a 45sec duration to do that. They could even increase the magnitude of the run speed buff if they were shortening the duration or perhaps increase the cooldown to 5min.

Originally Posted by MrWarg

The problem with the Champion Sprint skill isn't the magnitude of the speed buff, it's the potential duration of the effect and the cooldown. It can be as long as 45sec with a 3min cooldown. That means the Champion only has 2:15 between Sprint uses, which is a relatively short period of time. Melee classes do need some speed buffs to allow them to get into combat and not be kited to death, but I don't think it needs a 45sec duration to do that. They could even increase the magnitude of the run speed buff if they were shortening the duration or perhaps increase the cooldown to 5min.

That makes a lot more sense in my opinion. Maybe buff up the speed buff to 30%-50% instead of 25%, and make it last 15 seconds. I know that solution costs Champs about 30 seconds worth of run time, but 15 seconds should be plenty of time to catch up with someone who's kiting, and kill/slow them. Also, this way unless the champs is fairly close to his NPCs or group, he can't just run away from every fight. I wonder how much QQ we'd get from champs if this change were made though...

At the very least I think we should get some kind of in-combat sprint, regardless of whether they nerf champs or not, for times when LMs or some other class is just kiting with auto attacks until we're dead.

Originally Posted by jadacakai

Totally agree!

Far too many cowardly guar/champ, use their "heroic" sprint to bugger off/flee/scamper/run like a girl!!

Give the reaver a longer cd, and make it in/or out of combat.

Yeah, I see you sprinting in to combat on your warg all the time ROFL


Reavers don't need sprint because they can mostly avoid being kited. Only thing that would be nice is a SI/snare tail immunity on resilience like purge has.

Typical freeps gogles lol, Im sure there isnt one champ that has more deaths than me servers wide along with gaurds. Dying rage needs to be changed you cant use it to run away unless you playa deflier and thats only casue they can heal themselfs up before running. Make dying rage like last stand but no heal at the end. Simple again lol at the freeps crying.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Give them a ranged skill that hits for 2000 too while you're at it. Wait, nevermind they have it.

Anyway, good to see other creeps with goggles on asking for arguably the 2nd strongest creep class to get buffed.

lol and how many times does it hit for 2k????


Dying Rage at the moment is def a situational skill and very powerful when timed right. But........I do think it needs a bit of tweaking for how low your morale has to be to activate the skill, it should give you a morale/power heal. Long the lines of maybe a 2-3k heal just enough so you don't waste it instantly and then a full power heal. The full power heal might be over the top maybe 1k power heal or something.

Or just make it a creep side Last Stand I would love this *hint hint*

Reaver charge should be 1m or longer (potentially 2m) cooldown and usable in combat.

Reavers will have to decide whether to use it entering or leaving a battle. Always a good system to have.

Champs have sprint, it lasts a lot longer and ignores slows. An 8 second speed boost + cc immunity is pretty reasonable.

They need to just add an enhanced skill version of Charge that allows it to be combat usable. Problem solved. It's already on a 1 minute cooldown, it still only lasts 8 seconds. I don't see that as overpowering in any way compared to guardians and champs.

Didn't even need to bother reading the whole post to answer this.

Yes, of course Reavers need an in-combat movement speed increase skill * - and by this I of course also mean they need one that adds speed on top of standard walking pace regardless of slows, (for example 125% , not +25% which is totally useless v any slow) -- (on that point give Captains a self speed buff, dont assume the ###### 5 min cd 'Make Haste!' +25% speed skill is any good for them solo, they are still a MELEE class.

Ranged classes that can hit harder and move faster than melee, we all know that's a ######## concept though it appears some are too up themselves to admit it.

* or idea number 2, same concept -
-Skill (rank 1+ (yes rank 1)
-Name: Relentless charge (royalties if this goes in please)
-Action: Removes and prevents all movement impairing effects for 10 seconds
-Cooldown: 1 Minute
-P.S , hold the BS responses - Champion - 45s sprint 2 min cd. in one hour that champ can be sprinting for almost 22 minutes (late night maths, fell free to check). this skill would mean only 10 minutes speed increase, an hour; half that of a champ (again hold the ''classes aren't suppost to be identical'' BS, when it comes to the main melee classes of both factions being able to move at the same speed they they damn well should be. And don't forget i just typed this skill, it doesnt even exist so this second champs can sprint in combat 1/3 of an hour, every hour. Reavers can increase in-combat speed by...:O:O:O ... 0 %

And the only reason i haven't yet posted the blindingly (painfully) obvious solution of letting reavers charge in combat is because they havent changed it for 5 years and they ain't planing to any time soon. I'm sure the fact that every server i've ever played on ( at least 7) always have about 80% ranged freeps has nothing to do with week reavers and wargs; that'd be crazy ....

Originally Posted by DuneBug

An 8 second speed boost + cc immunity is pretty reasonable.

...um...no

8 seconds on the target? never
7 seconds on it, 5% of the time are you close enough to achieve this
6 seconds on it, hm i'd say about 30% of this time you can juuust about get 6 seconds combat if you lucky
5 or less? well there is your 65%, not having enough time to get anything more that your starter ravage, gut punch, dot before your chain stunned and steamrolled.

Also im pretty sure its not a bug that you can get a slow on you which will take affect as soon as charge! runs out, pretty aweful that after your 5s or less is up your already slowed and being kited.

I love QQ threads, they make me laugh at what some people are demanding to have that makes them over the top OP.
All classes have unique abilities that can make them stronger than others when used right.

Originally Posted by Blakgut

* or idea number 2, same concept -
-Skill (rank 1+ (yes rank 1)
-Name: Relentless charge (royalties if this goes in please)
-Action: Removes and prevents all movement impairing effects for 10 seconds
-Cooldown: 1 Minute
-.

Ha! See this exact skill is now in the game (save on 2 min cd not 1) will go see if devs have taken any more of my ideas to make this game less painful

make charge 20-25s long, the immunity for 10 or so seconds (debate on that if you want) and lower the run speed to say 60-70% run speed and call it good, as per the CD not sure if the one now would be good enough or not, somewhat simple fix and you want have a OP immunity for 20s

enough of the QQ and lets go kill each other!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Nerglor

make charge 20-25s long, the immunity for 10 or so seconds (debate on that if you want) and lower the run speed to say 60-70% run speed and call it good, as per the CD not sure if the one now would be good enough or not, somewhat simple fix and you want have a OP immunity for 20s

enough of the QQ and lets go kill each other!!!!!!!

Sorry, but no....its already hard enough to reach freeps with the 200% @ 60 or 70 i would never reach your race-car mounts.

why does it matter about the mounts or not, not like we can fight on them xD

Originally Posted by DuneBug

Reaver charge should be 1m or longer (potentially 2m) cooldown and usable in combat.

Reavers will have to decide whether to use it entering or leaving a battle. Always a good system to have.

Champs have sprint, it lasts a lot longer and ignores slows. An 8 second speed boost + cc immunity is pretty reasonable.

Charge! being usable in combat is something i would like as well. Personally, i think the cooldown on it should stay the same though.


While we are on the topic of Reavers , it would be nice if the class could actually have decent mitigations again. My rank 5 almost rank 6 Reaver has ~23% mitigation against the various tactical sources atm. Way too low.

Dissalow entering keeps while in combat.
Problem solved (and some more).

Originally Posted by Tron79

I think reavers overall are in a pretty decent place right now besides dev strike being fairly meh for its power cost.

We have dying rage to run from battle if we really want to, we end up with a death but you can at least deny infamy/troll freeps.

Maybe tweaking dying rage a bit to just be a sort of in combat charge would be a nice solution. Maybe make the buffs a little less extreme(Im looking at you 100% parry), but take away the health gate and death at the end.

also maybe a crit on blade toss could unlock charge or something

Did you notice notice that dev strike had its power cost significantly reduced in update six?

Tis annoying indeed. I want to be in the melee battle but without sprint or some kind of protection I just get chain slowed/rooted/stunned whatever and walk around in the freeps like a mug. So I have to charge in, dps, then get out again and sigh to myself until im out of combat and charge timer is off again.
-_-

Originally Posted by mrgray28th

some people are demanding to have that makes them over the top OP..

Take away your evade and we will see your tears flow.. mm they will taste sweet i will drink them yum yum

Since ever I wished that ALL sprints would only be available out of Combat - the Guardian-Skill is namend CHARGE - guess how many of them use this skill to actually charge and how many sprint away - let Wargs only use their sprint offensive - I love the System of the Reaver-Sprint - good to get into the Combat but not usable to get away...

Originally Posted by Blakgut

Take away your evade and we will see your tears flow.. mm they will taste sweet i will drink them yum yum

thats definatly a kid hunter that cant get a BA down?

Anw problem solved IF:
charge!
10s duration
immunity to all cc
cooldown 1minute
Usable in combat

what about blade toss giving ~+35% Movement speed for ~15seconds NOT ignoring slows like make haste from Captain?
Or make Charge! out of combat like it is and in Combat only a +25% Sprint or sth like that.
And dying Rage should be changed too. It's useless offensive and defensive cuz u normally die the moment u activate it

Originally Posted by Garofin

what about blade toss giving ~+35% Movement speed for ~15seconds NOT ignoring slows like make haste from Captain?

Blade toss/resilience pretty much does this, as well as removing the disarm, providing CC immunity and interrupting the animation of blade toss when used right.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

Blade toss/resilience pretty much does this, as well as removing the disarm, providing CC immunity and interrupting the animation of blade toss when used right.

I think what he's saying is that blade toss can be negated with sprint/make haste and the freep is long gone before you can get into kill range. I think reavers really do need an in-combat sprint skill even if it doesn't make them CC immune. It could be on a longer cooldown than charge, maybe 3-5 min.

Alternatively, they need some kind of stun/root/knockdown skill, preferably ranged, that could be attached to blade toss instead of the slow.

Originally Posted by asearchforreason

I think what he's saying is that blade toss can be negated with sprint/make haste and the freep is long gone before you can get into kill range. I think reavers really do need an in-combat sprint skill even if it doesn't make them CC immune. It could be on a longer cooldown than charge, maybe 3-5 min.

Alternatively, they need some kind of stun/root/knockdown skill, preferably ranged, that could be attached to blade toss instead of the slow.

Wow reavers are complaining about speed?

What about wargs man. You'd think the 4 legged class, the fastest of all the classes would have the most speed... Nope.

Originally Posted by kira_is_back

Wow reavers are complaining about speed?

What about wargs man. You'd think the 4 legged class, the fastest of all the classes would have the most speed... Nope.

So you can run around at 130% speed in stealth, and that's an issue?


Lol

Originally Posted by Elehir

So you can run around at 130% speed in stealth, and that's an issue?


Lol

Stealth speed doesnt matter with maps. The speed in combat matters. Any seasoned player knows this

Originally Posted by kira_is_back

Stealth speed doesnt matter with maps. The speed in combat matters. Any seasoned player knows this

if you wouldn't use your fu**ing sprint to run away but infight for runspeed-reason you ARE the fastest class of all - but that's the playstile of 90% of the lotro-wargs...

Originally Posted by kira_is_back

Wow reavers are complaining about speed?

What about wargs man. You'd think the 4 legged class, the fastest of all the classes would have the most speed... Nope.

What about wargs.....you're a stealth class that can easily position himself to reach a target. Sure a freep on a horse is difficult to catch if you can't find a quick line for a pounce, but a static freep has no clue you're coming. With a reaver though go towards a hunter, RK, or mini there are times when i take thousands of damage before i even reach my target. And really...you're worried about the top tier creep class getting love. Reaver's at the moment pretty much lack everything. We offer nothing that another class couldn't do better.

Originally Posted by Garofin

Or make Charge! out of combat like it is and in Combat only a +25% Sprint or sth like that.
And dying Rage should be changed too. It's useless offensive and defensive cuz u normally die the moment u activate it

No, it's damn near impossible for me to reach freep lines without getting blown up. I need the 200% to get in fast do as much damage as possible and either get out or fight till the death.

Lets take a look at all the freep classes with run buffs in combat...

Champ - up to a 45 sec 25% sprint buff

Cappy - up to a 55 sec 25% sprint buff (fellowship wide)

RK - 15% 20 sec sprint buff

Hunter - fleetness

Mini - 10% 10 sec speed buff

Guardian - up to a 17 sec 50% sprint buff with +10% dmg

Lets take a look at all the creep classes with run buffs in combat...

Warg - 20 sec 200% sprint buff