Thema: LC hotspot as a sparring area

sigh... So big discussion about champs ... making my poor little warden feel jealous

Zitat von Yelloweyedemon

sigh... So big discussion about champs ... making my poor little warden feel jealous

You're not OP enough for this...

Zitat von stoffi

Warder just said he doesn't go up against good champs because he has no chance. Should we go tell him L2P as well?


A champ has about the same armour as a warg in Flayer but at the same time loads more dps and twice as much morale(including all bubbles, bracing, man heal) and not to mention better CC, and many of us heard how Graveyard(top defiler) practically got 4-shotted yesterday.


I think it's a bit drastic to conclude that wargs and champs are equal based on your 1 fight where you finally lost, after winning probably 200 straight. Go read the monsterplayer forums, see what ppl are saying, listen to experienced wargs(except a certain superwarg playing rk, everything is easy to him ofc) and champs and see what they are saying. I myself can confirm this as I'm now finding back to my old flow with the fingers, though still a bit rusty.

If you're a champion and you lose to ANY warg more than just one unlucky incident where you had cds, missed everything, etc, you better L2P and get better gear.

You made a thread on the pvmp forums, but you didn't read you responses?

Zitat von Theandil

May I know about what you talking?
Srsly, whats your problem? you buy your audacity ranks or not?
On other side when solo hunter survive 12-15 seconds which is attacked by 5 creeps, its nothing bad on freeps side but maybe on creep. Cuz every hunter die in 5 seconds.

To flayer stance. Its one of OPnes skill what we wargs have now. Look up mate I jump on duo hunter/cpt and I leave battle with 3000 morale. Big mitignations, armor, and about 5 dots, debuffs.
Or you are lazy to learn new skill combinations? Cuz after U6 I totaly must rework my skill combination while using flayer stance.

^Warg

Zitat von aad0italian

Dude, you are totally wrong. First off you only have 1 audacity, there's one of your biggest flaws in your argument, when you get 7 audacity + flayer stance, it'll be insane, trust me, I saw it on bullroarer. Second, did you even use your new stances?! Flayer and Shadow stance are pretty damn good.

^Champ

If champs are still hard, try this:

1. Put on flayer
2. Find a skill on your skillbar, that applies a 50% slow
3. Faceroll
4. Profit!

(All posts by me, and I think this goes for Borrison's as well, are about ''real'' warg vs champ fights. Not spars where we don't use our cds, kite or use other ''spar-rules''. BAs and spiders are good at kiting champs, wargs are as well.)

Zitat von Ranroth

You made a thread on the pvmp forums, but you didn't read you responses?



^Warg



^Champ

If champs are still hard, try this:

1. Put on flayer
2. Find a skill on your skillbar, that applies a 50% slow
3. Faceroll
4. Profit!

(All posts by me, and I think this goes for Borrison's as well, are about ''real'' warg vs champ fights. Not spars where we don't use our cds, kite or use other ''spar-rules''. BAs and spiders are good at kiting champs, wargs are as well.)

You quote players who use "dude", "srsly" and generally got a language that of a 14 year old? Also, the so called warg says he has no problems beating hunters and captains, which none of us are arguing....

Try again, read what the general flow is about, read what reflected, good players write. You can even find it in this thread, Warder is a very good example, a well respected creep, one of the top wargs on this server, highest ranked and has high ranked creeps AND freeps.

But I guess you must be a lot better than warder, given your long experience as a warg, since you find it extremely easy to beat champs, you even faceroll them, while Warder can't....

You won one fight against Borrison, get over it. There will always be incidents like that, but they are rare, very rare. Bringing them up won't change a thing.

Zitat von Yelloweyedemon

sigh... So big discussion about champs ... making my poor little warden feel jealous

You're op too. Feel better now?

Stoff, give it up. No one else agrees that every class except for warg is OP. No one cares. Pretty much every post is against you, yet you still ignore it. We know champs are OP, but a warg has no place to complain, considering it's the best class on creepside at the moment.

If you want to argue about your class, please use the right thread. This thread has some use and we don't want it to go off topic until it's closed. Try the monster play forum and join the QQ there, but this isn't the place. Thanks.

Zitat von stoffi

Warder just said he doesn't go up against good champs because he has no chance. Should we go tell him L2P as well?

i don't know, should we? i asked him for a spar the other day but he refused so i have no idea how good is he in 1 on 1's

Zitat von stoffi

A champ has about the same armour as a warg in Flayer but at the same time loads more dps and twice as much morale(including all bubbles, bracing, man heal) and not to mention better CC, and many of us heard how Graveyard(top defiler) practically got 4-shotted yesterday.

how about flayers' ridiculous defenses? you have no idea how many times my attacks get evaded, blocked or whatever against flayers. or you do have idea but it wouldn't serve your arguments good if you mention that but then you're just plain biased. and when i get an impression that you're biased, your view about other champs and wargs from monsterplayer forums lose credibitily in my eyes. see, i don't even need to read monsterplayer forums you mention cause i'm 100% sure those champs you talk about run in glory. glory IS ridiculously OP and it's gay. but as far as i know, there are not many if any active glory champs on our server.
btw better CC? now you're just trolling, right?

Zitat von stoffi

I think it's a bit drastic to conclude that wargs and champs are equal based on your 1 fight where you finally lost, after winning probably 200 straight.

your assumptions based on nothing amuse me

Zitat von stoffi

If you're a champion and you lose to ANY warg more than just one unlucky incident where you had cds, missed everything, etc, you better L2P and get better gear.

when you mention better gear, it's true, a sudden defense legacy that reduces sd cooldown from 3 to 1 minute could come in handy for an extra bubble or 2 depending on fight duration, but i never bothered with that. not to mention first ager. i could also use macros like some to swap my 2 legendary weapons instantly but that would be plain cheating so i do it manually which isn't easy, it took me a while to practice that.

geez, if a reaver or defiler, 2 classes that really need some love would do all this qq about champs, i wouldn't say a thing.. but warg? please, get a grip

btw the way 90% of wargs play i don't think you even deserved these U6 changes, but there you go...

Zitat von stoffi

You quote players who use "dude", "srsly" and generally got a language that of a 14 year old? Also, the so called warg says he has no problems beating hunters and captains, which none of us are arguing....

Try again, read what the general flow is about, read what reflected, good players write. You can even find it in this thread, Warder is a very good example, a well respected creep, one of the top wargs on this server, highest ranked and has high ranked creeps AND freeps.

But I guess you must be a lot better than warder, given your long experience as a warg, since you find it extremely easy to beat champs, you even faceroll them, while Warder can't....

You won one fight against Borrison, get over it. There will always be incidents like that, but they are rare, very rare. Bringing them up won't change a thing.

Actually I'm not claiming to be better than anyone. But I think it's fair to say that I've fought more roi champs than some of the wargs that left with roi. Yes, I got roflstomped in the beginning (still often happen), but you don't get better at fighting champs when you don't fight them. You should try to stop hiding behind your pack and try to fight some! 1v1 ofc. Pre-u6, you HAD to kite all the bubbles and often cb. Now that's not necessary against most champs. I'm not facerolling good champs, not standing a chance to beat them consistently, and I would ragequit if I could. I'm a r9 warg! I have my p2w flayer, but that's it. I still don't have all my skills, and I've definitively not got the best movement/rotation/player-skill that a warg can have. As a class that's supposed to group, it'd be ridiculous to be 50/50 against the best of the ''most OP'' freeps at r9 (even with p2w skills).

Zitat von Borrison

i don't know, should we? i asked him for a spar the other day but he refused so i have no idea how good is he in 1 on 1's



how about flayers' ridiculous defenses? you have no idea how many times my attacks get evaded, blocked or whatever against flayers. or you do have idea but it wouldn't serve your arguments good if you mention that but then you're just plain biased. and when i get an impression that you're biased, your view about other champs and wargs from monsterplayer forums lose credibitily in my eyes. see, i don't even need to read monsterplayer forums you mention cause i'm 100% sure those champs you talk about run in glory. glory IS ridiculously OP and it's gay. but as far as i know, there are not many if any active glory champs on our server.
btw better CC? now you're just trolling, right?



your assumptions based on nothing amuse me

I've played warg for 4 years now(or is it 3.5? I started warging late SoA, been a slow ranker obviously), just so you know. I'm not some new guy, like Mokrum, and you obviously don't know a lot about Warder. Your lack of knowledge about him is understandable since you're relatively new, but I'm sure the entire server can testify to his skills as the HIGHEST ranked warg on the server.
Warder probably refused your request for a spar because Champions are too strong to beat, though there's always exceptions to the rule, just as with human babies you will find siamese twins sometimes, though we say humans are born with 1 head, 2 arms and 2 feet. ^^ (you would be the guy claiming all humans can be born with two heads if they want to)


A champ has better CC indeed, the Horn is ranged, AoE and WILL stun you for x seconds(I don't remember the duration). Warg stun is reliable twice, is not AoE, not ranged and I have a feeling the stun duration is shorter. The champ stun can be used plenty of times in a fight, while the warg only has access to 2 stuns, plus some POTENTIAL stuns.

The slow of a warg and a champ is equal I believe, though champ stun has a better range. Warg now has an extra slow, which gives warg an edge, but champs can counter slows with champ sprint. I'd have champ sprint + champ slow any day.



Flayer defences is insane? Armour is the same as champ with flayer, is champ armour insane?


You are sure 90% of the champs run in glory? Maybe you should go read before you assume and what does glory have to do with anything, they are still champs, are they not?



Now add the insane dps of a champ.... Math, Borrison, MATH. And please do read what experienced players are telling you, both champs and wargs, including myself. ^^

Zitat von Thaberg

Stoff, give it up. No one else agrees that every class except for warg is OP. No one cares. Pretty much every post is against you, yet you still ignore it. We know champs are OP, but a warg has no place to complain, considering it's the best class on creepside at the moment.

If you want to argue about your class, please use the right thread. This thread has some use and we don't want it to go off topic until it's closed. Try the monster play forum and join the QQ there, but this isn't the place. Thanks.

QFT
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?453900-Wargs

Zitat von Ranroth

Actually I'm not claiming to be better than anyone. But I think it's fair to say that I've fought more roi champs than some of the wargs that left with roi. Yes, I got roflstomped in the beginning (still often happen), but you don't get better at fighting champs when you don't fight them. You should try to stop hiding behind your pack and try to fight some! 1v1 ofc. Pre-u6, you HAD to kite all the bubbles and often cb. Now that's not necessary against most champs. I'm not facerolling good champs, not standing a chance to beat them consistently, and I would ragequit if I could. I'm a r9 warg! I have my p2w flayer, but that's it. I still don't have all my skills, and I've definitively not got the best movement/rotation/player-skill that a warg can have. As a class that's supposed to group, it'd be ridiculous to be 50/50 against the best of the ''most OP'' freeps at r9 (even with p2w skills).

Decide, please. You just said wargs should faceroll champs, now you say you can't faceroll them. Does this mean you are exaggerating and inventing arguments to win a debate?

My pack? What pack would that be? All my pack friends left with RoI and even before, I've got the highest amount of infamy per kill on creep side, except for probably Kodush but he won't post his stats. I'm one of the creeps on this server who's done the most 1v1's, judging by stats. I seek out 1v1's constantly and have done so for 4 years.
Don't presume to judge me without knowing who I am.

A class which is supposed to group? Where in Turbine's manual is this written?


I think you should stick to facts. Don't invent arguments, don't change your opinion based on where the wind is blowing, don't presume to know how I play when you've barely seen me ingame as you just started playing warg.


You are right though, practice does make you better, but in the end, there's only so much skill can do vs math.


Also, I want to point out that warg is in a good place. I am absolutely not complaining about warg, I really like it now. The challenge is there, I have a better chance against more freeps but there's still freep classes which are too strong when played by decent ppl. I expect they will get nerfed in time.

Unlike RoI, when I went over night from being a good warg able to beat a lot of players to a ###### warg, not able to beat very many players(obviously, this had nothing to do with anyone's skill as no one starts sucking or becomes super-good over night), U6 is a step in the right direction!


But on topic, just avoid fighting champs and minis in spars if one thinks they are too strong, and that was how this debate started, because ppl found minis and champs too strong.

Zitat von Limmy

QFT

He just said what I have been saying, champs are op. And wargs are in a good place. Good place < OP




Thaberg has a point though, sorry for taking this thread off topic so much, I'll leave it at this and make a new thread about champs vs wargs if we really need any more discussion....

Zitat von stoffi

He just said what I have been saying, champs are op. And wargs are in a good place. Good place < OP


New kids on the block... ^^

New, yes.

Also the same rank as you, he didn't appear out of nowhere.

Zitat von stoffi

He just said what I have been saying, champs are op. And wargs are in a good place. Good place < OP


New kids on the block... ^^

Old women on the block... don't know when to give up and argument

Zitat von stoffi

I've played warg for 4 years now(or is it 3.5? I started warging late SoA, been a slow ranker obviously), just so you know. I'm not some new guy, like Mokrum, and you obviously don't know a lot about Warder. Your lack of knowledge about him is understandable since you're relatively new, but I'm sure the entire server can testify to his skills as the HIGHEST ranked warg on the server.
Warder probably refused your request for a spar because Champions are too strong to beat, though there's always exceptions to the rule, just as with human babies you will find siamese twins sometimes, though we say humans are born with 1 head, 2 arms and 2 feet. ^^ (you would be the guy claiming all humans can be born with two heads if they want to)


A champ has better CC indeed, the Horn is ranged, AoE and WILL stun you for x seconds(I don't remember the duration). Warg stun is reliable twice, is not AoE, not ranged and I have a feeling the stun duration is shorter. The champ stun can be used plenty of times in a fight, while the warg only has access to 2 stuns, plus some POTENTIAL stuns.

The slow of a warg and a champ is equal I believe, though champ stun has a better range. Warg now has an extra slow, which gives warg an edge, but champs can counter slows with champ sprint. I'd have champ sprint + champ slow any day.



Flayer defences is insane? Armour is the same as champ with flayer, is champ armour insane?


You are sure 90% of the champs run in glory? Maybe you should go read before you assume and what does glory have to do with anything, they are still champs, are they not?



Now add the insane dps of a champ.... Math, Borrison, MATH. And please do read what experienced players are telling you, both champs and wargs, including myself. ^^

Wargs have a fair chance to win champ in spar and can faceroll all the other classes..What else you want? I bet you would be QQ:ing even if they would give you oneshot skill on 1min cd.

I'm at LC HS if anyone wants to spar

Zitat von EU-Kazadan

I'm at LC HS if anyone wants to spar

I frapsed what happened earlier with vani mate.

Such a sad person to kill someone when afk he is.

Zitat von EU-Kazadan

I'm at LC HS if anyone wants to spar

Thanks for the spars Kaz, great fun. In the first i tried to kill myself with root pot but only does like 100 dmg on me now with audacity

And Mokrum, the one you had me one 100 morale and I came back, favourite ever lotro spar for me (prob not for you )


Thanks guys!

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

Thanks for the spars Kaz, great fun. In the first i tried to kill myself with root pot but only does like 100 dmg on me now with audacity

And Mokrum, the one you had me one 100 morale and I came back, favourite ever lotro spar for me (prob not for you )


Thanks guys!

Bele, you heal so much amagad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! -.-

Zitat von Ranroth

Bele, you heal so much amagad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! -.-

I may (or may not) have had restoration crit heal for 950 morale when i was at 150, you decide ^^

Also dps traits we have to heal against good flayer wargs every so often (my basic rotation against you is one round of bleeds, one round of self heals, one round of bleeds/up front dmg gambits for an exciting finish). Against kaz i could jus keep restoration up and stay full dps and the fight would be interesting. Wargs are defo the best 1v1 creep now imo, survivable in flayer and good dps.

My audacity is now at 4 and that will make a diff I'm sure, I can spend less time being a turtle and more time bringing the pain.

Sad truth is I could stay self healing and slowly but inevitably win, but there's no fun in that

But ye that last fight, i had to use every ounce of mastery knowledge to escape from the morale difference your knockdown produced, so dont feel bad. You woulda taken anyone else downtown that fight i reckon.

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

I may (or may not) have had restoration crit heal for 950 morale when i was at 150, you decide ^^

.... And/or you b/p/e'd everything for ~15 sec. I'm sure you even b/p/e'd my dots xD ....

Zitat von Ranroth

.... And/or you b/p/e'd everything for ~15 sec. I'm sure you even b/p/e'd my dots xD ....

Probably, I'm sure Peli thinks Wardens bpe DoTs nowadays ^^

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

But ye that last fight, i had to use every ounce of mastery knowledge to escape from the morale difference your knockdown produced, so dont feel bad. You woulda taken anyone else downtown that fight i reckon.

Does this mean you're the very best?

Zitat von Blastoise

Does this mean you're the very best?

Pfft nah got lucky as always. Meant that Mok deserved to win and woulda done gainst any other class ^^

Don't worry I haven't come across all Vani-like

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

Pfft nah got lucky as always. Meant that Mok deserved to win and woulda done gainst any other class ^^

Don't worry I haven't come across all Vani-like

how do u know he woulda win against any other class ?
u are some kind of Oracle ? :P

Zitat von Gillrain

how do u know he woulda win against any other class ?
u are some kind of Oracle ? :P

Yup :P




Also cause no other class coulda had enough HoTs running to survive that knockdown.

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

Yup :P




Also cause no other class coulda had enough HoTs running to survive that knockdown.

Find footing

Zitat von Jureon

Find footing

You use cds in spars? O.o



Hehe just kidding, by that logic could just say Never Surrender and go back to full morale, that'll teach them!

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

You use cds in spars? O.o



Hehe just kidding, by that logic could just say Never Surrender and go back to full morale, that'll teach them!

Minstrels - Fellowships heart ...

OH NOES I DIDN'T!

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

Yup :P




Also cause no other class coulda had enough HoTs running to survive that knockdown.

well not really tbh each class can win against him its all depends how u playing your class.

Zitat von Gillrain

well not really tbh each class can win against him its all depends how u playing your class.

Not beating him in general. Winning from being knocked down on such low morale with no way to get up early. Just the situation in that specific spar.

Don't be jelly bout the new Warden again Guards are great in PvP! (./chuckles)

Zitat von Bels_illuminati

Not beating him in general. Winning from being knocked down on such low morale with no way to get up early. Just the situation in that specific spar.

Don't be jelly bout the new Warden again Guards are great in PvP! (./chuckles)

Jelly ? about what exactly ? some pixels ? when i got knocked i am using turn the tabels and wargs is knocked not me lol so sry but your attempt to show only wardens can survive knocked faild

I think bele Ego eating u for last cople of days time to weak up.

Zitat von Gillrain

Jelly ? about what exactly ? some pixels ? when i got knocked i am using turn the tabels and wargs is knocked not me lol so sry but your attempt to show only wardens can survive knocked faild

I think bele Ego eating u for last cople of days time to weak up.

Come on man I just said 'with no way to get up', ie. no cds. Again: in this specific situation without cds.

Was only jokin with the jelly, everyone knows Guardians are the 'best' tanks. Well that is the consensus among the lotro community and nothing else matters really.


Amazes me how many people are asking for Warden nerfs though. I mean, wake up and smell the genuinely OP freeps please! They're still there.

Arai you bite so easy!

I'm at LC HS atm comecomecome

It seems lately, leveling my cappy has taken it's toll, I knew it was to come, I'll be at LC HS a lot of the time this next week, looking to spar anyone except shield wardens. I be there to spar fair. (And sorry about using DR Delo, I did not mean to use it, I was just so desperate)

UBAH EPIC NOTEZ::

I has new pro tacticz I also need to practice. So you get easy renown too!

Looking for spars at lc hs naow.

Damnnnn kaz your a beast O.o

At lc hs atm for spars

pomiar, next time you see me jumping in the middle of a spar i'm winning, that's a good indication that something's wrong my skills got stuck

i don't know what's the deal with that hithlad, it NEVER happens to me anywhere except at LC HS when sparring. i've heard other players experience the same thing there also

Zitat von Borrison

pomiar, next time you see me jumping in the middle of a spar i'm winning, that's a good indication that something's wrong my skills got stuck

i don't know what's the deal with that hithlad, it NEVER happens to me anywhere except at LC HS when sparring. i've heard other players experience the same thing there also

lately I have often had trouble with skills not working but it only happens in Hithlad and the Coldfells