eventually it ended with me killing and dying from a DoT where I could've used a poison/morale pot either 2 bubbles and dire need or even manheal if I wished to. -> My point NOT ALL CHAMPS PLAY TO WIN AND USE ALL THEY GOT TO DESTROY AND SURVIVE IN A SPAR.
hehe, same thing with me today vs hardly pronounceable pippox's spider
my god you make it sound so hard on champ. You make it sound like once a spider is burrowed you have nothing to counter it, blow your trumpet you guys are always doing and figure the rest out, its not hard to know what to do next. But please dont make out you guys would struggle.
They have roots dazes fears stuns and I'm not saying they shouldn't kite but some take it to the extreme. not saying they'll win but earlier today had a draw with one that used all CC didn't burrow and didn't kite through webbing. Granted my sprint was on cd for part of the fight which made it last so long and gave him the opportunity to attack. eventually it ended with me killing and dying from a DoT where I could've used a poison/morale pot either 2 bubbles and dire need or even manheal if I wished to. -> My point NOT ALL CHAMPS PLAY TO WIN AND USE ALL THEY GOT TO DESTROY AND SURVIVE IN A SPAR.
That spider was me. And I must say, Bori and Narg do not go all out to win. If they did, I wouldn't stand a chance (due to lack of skill on spider and the general underpoweredness) :P
But I appreciate the effort to even the battle, even if that means a death for them. Nice change from the P2W bunch with 4 rows of buffs, really ^^
Then again, I must add, using dazes, the wmb stun or roots means you have to stop and get the induction off. Bad idea unless the distance is large to begin with.
my god you make it sound so hard on champ. You make it sound like once a spider is burrowed you have nothing to counter it, blow your trumpet you guys are always doing and figure the rest out, its not hard to know what to do next. But please dont make out you guys would struggle.
from my experience mostly with dharma, spiders tend to be immune to horns after they get out of hole. i don't know if that's a store brand he's using or some skill but in short, that doesn't work either on him, don't know about other spiders.
and we were not trying to make it sound like anything, we just responded to your "you can go wait on that burrow and then slow and kill the spider when he pops up if you have any sense" and explained it doesn't go like that. it's you that make it sound like we should faceroll just about anything just because we're champs.
Aye nothing more to add to what Borrison says really. The original point was simply don't treat all the same some fight in certain ways to equal out the odds the best they can. I gave an example of where I personally would use cd's in a certain playstyle and only that has been replied on and countered by champs then. So don't say things like you're trying to make it sound like it's so hard for a champ. read the points I keep trying to make yes I can probably beat the living **** out of anything if I use all my cd's... That was the point, some champs don't so it's unfair to simply say no to sparring champs or mini's at all
So please stop dragging on about the spider example cause we got 2 reavers replying to it against 2 champs while I think the 2 champs have most experience of spider vs champion fights in this case...
And thats precicely why I tend to avoid spar and talking about them (except in this post, heh).
I think we could go on endlessly what is honorable and what is not in sparring, but I guess you'd never find a solution everyone would agree upon. Whats the point, anyways?
But funny thing is, when ppl win they think its about skill, and when they lose then its about other classes are being overpowered. Also, some silly assumptions about other classes and how they work, Rompers post for example
Oh well, I guess thats the point of those talks, to incite some competition? :P
Last edited by CptnGlupino; Feb 14 2012 at 10:07 AM.
Also, some silly assumptions about other classes and how they work, Rompers post for example
Im sorry i dont work from assumptions, my post was all facts and truth. Do you think i only have a reaver and i dont know anything about how other classes work, or talk to others for pure facts before I posted. So show me where i assumed things please, I would love to know as its sounding more like you guys have too many skills and you dont even know what to do with them. There is such a thing as having too much of a good thing or so i assume.
Guess i should throw my 22g and 1450 dwarf beards worth into this.
Id say 95% of the champs on gilrain can only be beat 1v1 on spider with extreme kiting.
> Dps as much as you can ... we cant dps through bubbles so gotta kite until they go, no point taking damage while the champ is undamagable
> Cant stand melee as we have no where near the required dps / survivability
> If a champ sprints ... a spider has to burrow ... theres no point critising the spider on that, they dont have 6k crits to fight in melee with a champ.
usually the champ will continue to dps pet down and kill it, then wait over burrow. I dont use store talismans when i come out of burrow ... ill use a 5 second stun pot, and while the champ is using horn ill fear it before it can get slow off and resume kiting. Then because champ sprint is 3 minute cooldown and spider burrow is 5 ... the spider has 2 minutes to finish off the champ before it gets its sprint back.
That is 95% of the champ fights i have ... Getting a champ down low enough and making him blow through enough bubbles and heals as possible before the sprint/burrow so i can finish him off in the 2 minutes before he gets second sprint.
Ive had one 1 v 1 with narg, and he went all out sprints heals bubbles the lot, i got caught with a hamstring in the 2 minute window and died =/
Ive never known a champ to not use all heals / bubbles / sprint etc and so as a spider we have to treat every champ fight the same (judge them as all the same) ... I agree, fights were it is just dps vs CC , no tricks or kite would be close and probably more entertaining but theres no point going into a champ fight thinking theyre gonna have a straight out no kite/bubble fight ... only to have them heal/bubble right at the end when you can do f/a about it. Its the spider thats taking the risk in the champ 1 v 1 fight if they decide to stay melee.
Last edited by DharmaSpider; Feb 14 2012 at 01:19 PM.
Assumption: that we can predict the future of when a spider is to pop up to make sure we have fervour to slow it straight away
i never said anything like that. My god you are clueless its so simple what to do. But like most spars there is a lot of luck involved. But im not gonna give you tips and hints in what you could do and can do. Go figure it out for yourselves.
i never said anything like that. My god you are clueless its so simple what to do. But like most spars there is a lot of luck involved. But im not gonna give you tips and hints in what you could do and can do. Go figure it out for yourselves.
no but you said we had skills for instant fervour and we should slow the spider, that is the only option. and trust me I really don't need tips or hints on what I can do I've been playing champ for 5 years I think I know how to play it lol.
And yes you have to kill champ fast so if you're gonna kite for 3 mins+ ofc I'm gonna use bubbles cause the DoT hurts and well if you don't kite I might not use all bubbles that's the thing I've been trying to say but as you're clearly picking out stuff which has nothing to do with a point I keep trying to make I'm not gonna bother posting on the topic anymore. I mean I'm OP and got bubbles yay *spams bubbles and heals with superdps and sprints away*
oh an its not just ... im going to run around this rock for 5 minutes an hope somethin kills you while im not looking. You have to be constantly aware of distance, when you can get a quick dot off, knowing the landscape, knowing where unfriendly npcs appear. Its not as simple as just running away.
from my experience mostly with dharma, spiders tend to be immune to horns after they get out of hole. i don't know if that's a store brand he's using or some skill but in short, that doesn't work either on him, don't know about other spiders.
and we were not trying to make it sound like anything, we just responded to your "you can go wait on that burrow and then slow and kill the spider when he pops up if you have any sense" and explained it doesn't go like that. it's you that make it sound like we should faceroll just about anything just because we're champs.
R9 and doesn't know what a stun pot is. Guess you can faceroll a Champion to R9.
R9 and doesn't know what a stun pot is. Guess you can faceroll a Champion to R9.
true i forgot about the damn pot
anyways, nice epic 5 minute fight today with dharma, i like it when we both die at the same time
same thing when sparring ret's reaver. was fun
btw as far as i noticed spiders are probably the only class that can kill bubble/heal using champs no matter how good the champ is if played perfectly. but yeah, i imagine that's not easy
Ive never known a champ to not use all heals / bubbles / sprint etc and so as a spider we have to treat every champ fight the same (judge them as all the same) ... I agree, fights were it is just dps vs CC , no tricks or kite would be close and probably more entertaining but theres no point going into a champ fight thinking theyre gonna have a straight out no kite/bubble fight ... only to have them heal/bubble right at the end when you can do f/a about it. Its the spider thats taking the risk in the champ 1 v 1 fight if they decide to stay melee.
I just quoted this - but its very good post overall.
I'm fairly new to EM, ok, at least with this toon (played back in 2007 with my LM, but I guess that doesn't count at all ), and Dharma usually beats me. I know there is lots of stuff I have to catch up with, so I usually lose my encounters with Dharma. Wich says it all - if you play stuff properly (Dharma), you can make champ burn its bubbles/other stuff. Its all about tactics and practice, I guess? Ok, I'll agree that some classes match better with certain others, but still... someone earlier said that spiders lose 95% to champs, but I guess this post tells us otherwise.
So, saying why would champ use its bubbles/stuff when they can just hack and slash trough everything is just - silly I could just say to that - why don't you make them use it?
At LC hotspot again! I won't spar certain burglars and all minstrels. I don't just pick fights I can win, I pick fights which are reasonable considering the balance ><... Anywho, I'm there again, come check it out if you want spider KBs. Would be nice to get some spars going like this afternoon!
But we used to have to use everything to stand a chance against a reaver and wasn't that unfair either? just checking cause maybe you've all forgotten the 1.5-2 years before RoI, sure it was mainly champ and hunter you could destroy well we finally got some love which was needed don't care if you agree or not, we've been the punching bag for years and that's a fact. maybe we got a bit too much, guess they should change it a bit that some things stay only in tanking traitline
Lol? ^^
Champs have always been decent and good champs had a very good chance of winning, and could escape whenever they wanted with sprint. You have NOT been a punching bag.
And you think you deserved "some love"? SOME LOVE?! What you got was a "bit" over the top to put it mildly. You're fekkin OVERPOWERED DELUXE version. You could take away all your bubbles and bracing attack and champs would still be incredibly strong.
To all those who spar, stop complaining about how op minis and champions are in spars, just don't spar them at all unless you want another death in your stats.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
Champs have always been decent and good champs had a very good chance of winning, and could escape whenever they wanted with sprint. You have NOT been a punching bag.
And you think you deserved "some love"? SOME LOVE?! What you got was a "bit" over the top to put it mildly. You're fekkin OVERPOWERED DELUXE version. You could take away all your bubbles and bracing attack and champs would still be incredibly strong.
To all those who spar, stop complaining about how op minis and champions are in spars, just don't spar them at all unless you want another death in your stats.
Is every message you put on the forums QQ? Champs aren't that bad, you can still win against a lot of champs quite easily, I agree what you said about not sparring people, but yeah, champs aren't that bad, and minstrels are easy enough for most wargs as I see it. To be honest, just nerf mini/RK healing and EM will be perfect the way I see it.
Is every message you put on the forums QQ? Champs aren't that bad, you can still win against a lot of champs quite easily, I agree what you said about not sparring people, but yeah, champs aren't that bad, and minstrels are easy enough for most wargs as I see it. To be honest, just nerf mini/RK healing and EM will be perfect the way I see it.
What world do you live in?
And stop the "all you do is QQ" bs, it's getting old. It's only right to respond to such preposterous claims as those made by Nargai. According to you, one should simply nod and not say anything against anything when it is clearly wrong.
Also, several posters just stated that only spiders could beat champs, so how can you win against them easily?
You started playing very late and don't know how real balance was. Kids in Africa probably think the world is fair as well, as long as they get their daily doze of bread and water.
As I said, if you think a class is op, don't spar them. Simple enough.
Last edited by stoffi; Apr 06 2012 at 08:19 AM.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
Also, several posters just stated that only spiders could beat champs, so how can you win against them easily?
Well most the people who say you can't kill champs in a 1v1 or a spar are just people who spar them once, lose, say they're OP and never spar again, I'll never reject a spar, and if you spar enough, you begin to learn how to fight champs, don't listen to BS about only spiders can beat them, all it takes is for you to be a good player.
Originally Posted by stoffi
You started playing very late and don't know how real balance was.
And was balance creeps winning every 1v1 without losing any morale whatsoever?
Stoff you should log on sometime when there's sparring going on and see how it's really like and don't rely on posts on the forums when you make statements. From a reaver perspective a fight against a decent champ is not suicide, if they go all out with bubbles, sprint and heals it'll get tough sure, but isn't that how it's supposed to be? If you pop all cd's something good is bound to happen lol. It's as if you expect creeps to be able to faceroll champs like in SoM release when rvrs could 1v2 champs that were popping everything in their arsenal. But I guess I shouldn't say anything 'cos I haven't been around for long and I haven't played lately
Other classes please fill me in
Well most the people who say you can't kill champs in a 1v1 or a spar are just people who spar them once, lose, say they're OP and never spar again, I'll never reject a spar, and if you spar enough, you begin to learn how to fight champs, don't listen to BS about only spiders can beat them, all it takes is for you to be a good player.
And was balance creeps winning every 1v1 without losing any morale whatsoever?
And where do you get that from? I suggest you read this thread instead of making up arguments, there's several notable players saying this.
You can be the best player in the world but you can only do so much with the tools you are given, and that's just how it is.
You don't seem to know what you are talking about here. Freep side has generally been the strongest side 90% of the time LOTRO has been around and we were all used to that and the balance usually wasn't all that bad, you would still have a realistic chance against most freeps, even a chance vs some of the best ones. Last autumn, it all changed and then you started playing. Don't talk about things in the past that you don't know about, implicating creeps won every fight. You just can't know how it was and shouldn't speculate in producing arguments based on guessing and bs.
If you think you can spar champions and minstrels and win, no one is stopping you. I just think it's a waste of time complaining about minis and champs being op in spars as you have a CHOICE to fight them in spars, unlike real fights where you SHOULD complain in order to make the devs use the nerf bat.
Edit: Kazadan: you're just confirming what I'm saying.... Fighting champs when they use their skills is "tough", as you put it. I'm not talking about fighting a champ who holds back in some way to make it "fair". I'm talking about the real potential of the class, using all its skills. And as you admit, that's "tough", indicating extremely hard even for the best creeps.
And yeah, I will watch some spars when I see them.
Last edited by stoffi; Apr 06 2012 at 08:44 AM.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
I should have been more specific, 90% of your posts are talking about things you don't know or haven't experienced in the last 6 months of LoTRO, so get over yourself.
I am the one who has sunken low, in the eyes of the douchebag that is comparing starving children in Africa to an MMO.
Please delete yourself.
Thank you, exactly what I wanted to say, but I just couldn't get the right words.
Stoff the fact of the matter is that you are basing your statements on knowledge that is now irrelevant. The game has changed substantially since you last played actively.
Also, there was a time when champs were rubbish. They had one mildly imbalanced sprint skill and aside from that they were weak. Even I had a good chance of beating a high ranked champ when I was only around R8.
But that is the past, the fact now is that yes they are too strong, but they are not unbeatable for a creep who does it right.
Last edited by Squelcher; Apr 06 2012 at 09:45 AM.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
I should have been more specific, 90% of your posts are talking about things you don't know or haven't experienced in the last 6 months of LoTRO, so get over yourself.
I am the one who has sunken low, in the eyes of the douchebag that is comparing starving children in Africa to an MMO.
Please delete yourself.
Don't become the forum bully, stop the personal attacks, please. Telling someone to delete himself and calling him a douchebag is way off and doesn't belong on a forum. If you disagree with me, say it without being rude. Thank you.
Originally Posted by TiberPancake
Thank you, exactly what I wanted to say, but I just couldn't get the right words.
You are just as bad as Limmy. Are you two the new bullies on the forum? Continue like that and you go on ignore, I'm not looking to be harassed by the new kids on the block.
This is the only update I haven't played a lot since Mirkwood(I had a break for a while in Moria), so you are in no right to make such accusations.
Squelcher is partially right that I don't have a lot first hand experience with this patch but judging by the changes and player experiences, things are still pretty unbalanced. Also remember I've only missed out on ONE update, this one. The last one was HORRIBLE and the update notes weren't that promising. I will be playing a bit though, to get audacity rank 7 and see what happens. Still very rusty, but I'm hoping warg has been improved, like certain high ranked wargs say.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
Yes, it can be. But this update wasn't that big except for a few classes and player responces say a lot, along with first hand experience. (correct me if I'm wrong) (plus audacity)
Time will tell.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
Yes, it can be. But this update wasn't that big except for a few classes and player responces say a lot, along with first hand experience. (correct me if I'm wrong) (plus audacity)
Time will tell.
It has changed a lot for those who get high audacity, for those who don't, changes are small.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
It has changed a lot for those who get high audacity, for those who don't, changes are small.
I remember you claimed things were a lot more balanced when RoI came though(the worst update ever for creeps), so forgive me if I don't entirely trust you here. (Don't take it as an insult, I'm saying it with a smile)
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
I remember you claimed things were a lot more balanced when RoI came though(the worst update ever for creeps), so forgive me if I don't entirely trust you here. (Don't take it as an insult, I'm saying it with a smile)
Yes I was horribly wrong. At the time I underestimated Turbine. Since then I've been turned cynical by their updates.
Keep in mind, I did not say that the changes audacity brought were good, I just said they are significant if you get enough audacity, it varies heavily from class to class.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
Yes I was horribly wrong. At the time I underestimated Turbine. Since then I've been turned cynical by their updates.
Keep in mind, I did not say that the changes audacity brought were good, I just said they are significant if you get enough audacity, it varies heavily from class to class.
Btw, Corlindel just posted saying how he doesn't play Champion because is horribly op. A lot of GOOD players are saying the same thing and that was my experience before this patch. Haven't fought any yet myself.
So, I base my statements on what several good players claim, and got trolled by the new kids on the block for it. ^^
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
Btw, Corlindel just posted saying how he doesn't play Champion because is horribly op. A lot of GOOD players are saying the same thing and that was my experience before this patch. Haven't fought any yet myself.
So, I base my statements on what several good players claim, and got trolled by the new kids on the block for it. ^^
Champ is horribly OP. Horribly OP =/= undefeatable.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
Champ is horribly OP. Horribly OP =/= undefeatable.
didn't you just say they weren't and I was wrong?
I just experienced a champ in action btw. It took him very few seconds to take away my morale. ^^ I was in shadow(mistake ofc) though, but still. Take away half their dps or all their bubbles.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
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and well if you don't kite I might not use all bubbles that's the thing I've been trying to say but as you're clearly picking out stuff which has nothing to do with a point I keep trying to make I'm not gonna bother posting on the topic anymore. I mean I'm OP and got bubbles yay *spams bubbles and heals with superdps and sprints away*
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