Thread: Evil Dwarves ??

If dwarves could not be corrupted by evil, then is it against lore to have the dourhands be evil in LOTRO?

If i remember right, Elrond talked about that in Rivendell: There were Dwarves on both sides, some fought with Saurons armies, and some on the side of the last alliance.
They coulnd't be corrupted, that's true, but they were greedy. In the Silmarillion, dwarves killed king Thingol and stole the Nauglamir from him.
So, they might not be corrupted by such things like rings (Though I wouldn't be sure if the one ring wouldn't be to powerful, even for a dwarf.), but their greed can lead them to evil sides.

I think that the actual lore is that dwarves cannot become wraiths through the corruption of the rings, as the men did. However, the rings given to the dwarves caused excess greed, which led to violence and moral corruption, even if they couldn't become wraiths.

Agreeing with others, it's more about corruption from the rings than anything else. The rings amplify desires which is why only the Hobbits can carry the One Ring for extended periods.

Men desired power and longer life as they were the shortest lived of the folks in Middle Earth
Dwarves desire riches and so the rings enhance that and exploit that.
The Hobbits however want nothing more than a good smoke and some fine cheese. They don't have global ambitions so the Ring cannot corrupt them in the same manner. Over a long, long time it can happen (but that was the ONE RING, not standard Rings of Power).

This was one of the more interesting points of a Tolkien class I took in college.

Some dwarves fought for Sauron, but none of them are from Durin's Folk. Dwarves of Nogrod killed King Thingol of Doriath and sacked the city. I imagine the Dourhands are somehow descended from these "evil" dwarves.

Originally Posted by Mafusa

Some dwarves fought for Sauron, but none of them are from Durin's Folk. Dwarves of Nogrod killed King Thingol of Doriath and sacked the city. I imagine the Dourhands are somehow descended from these "evil" dwarves.

They couldn't be, as those particular Dwarves were all stomped flat by the Ents

The 'evil' Dwarves who'd once served Sauron would presumably have come from one of the Houses in the East.

Originally Posted by Erumellion

This was one of the more interesting points of a Tolkien class I took in college.

Damn! - I definitely went to the wrong college.

Originally Posted by Thendrail

If i remember right, Elrond talked about that in Rivendell: There were Dwarves on both sides, some fought with Saurons armies, and some on the side of the last alliance.
They coulnd't be corrupted, that's true, but they were greedy.

They might not have been evil as such but they'd have to have been thoroughly amoral to take Sauron's side.

In the Silmarillion, dwarves killed king Thingol and stole the Nauglamir from him.
So, they might not be corrupted by such things like rings (Though I wouldn't be sure if the one ring wouldn't be to powerful, even for a dwarf.), but their greed can lead them to evil sides.

I think the point was that they could be spiritually corrupted to some extent (hence the greed, which was quite capable of bringing evil about) but not physically, which was why there were no Dwarf Ring-wraiths (much to Sauron's disappointment). The Dwarves were made to be tough. Yes, obviously the One Ring would have been too much for them - I imagine they'd have tried to keep it rather than destroying something so 'precious'.

The business with the Nauglamir wasn't just about Dwarven greed, it was also a potent combination of the curse that had been placed on it and the general ill-fate that befell anyone who kept a Silmaril. Sticking the two together was just asking for trouble

Dwarves fought for Sauron during the War of the Last Alliance. Yes, this is from the Silmarillion, which Turbine does not have the license for, but I don't think that means that they shouldn't try to stay true to it, when possible. Since dwarves have already fought for evil, I assume it could happen again.

They may have been uncorruptable by evil, but their greed and their pride could push them into doing deeds that could be seen as evil nonetheless. The Dourhands aren't really in league with Angmar because "we are evil, we want to see the world burn, fear us!" To them, this is just a way to regain their pride, to bring glory to their house under the leadership of their "newly returned" Lord; Angmar is obviously taking advantage of this desire, and the Dourhands' belief in the return of Skorgrim, to bring them under their banner.

The dwarves fighting for Sauron during the War of the Last Alliance were never elaborated upon, save for the mention that they were not Longbeards, but I imagine it would in some sense have been comparable. Sauron probably did not go out and say to them "join me in my evil ways", but rather, play at the dwarves' greed and pride, tricking them into doing his bidding.