Thread: Hey Orion can we hear about update 6 yet? :)

Hey Orion any news as to some of your update 6 preliminary ideas? I know nothing is set in stone and is subject to change. Just curious about some of your ideas. Plz guys no comments on what you think should be changed. the last 200 pages on the warden forums cover that and we have all read them. some great some not so great but were not hte ones in charge of what changes will be made. I only want to hear the devs idea of whats changing as his is the one i havent heard yet.

At the moment they're working on Update 5, I can't imagine you'll hear anything from them about 6 anytime soon...

Orion did state that wardens will get a revamp somewhere in between champs and mini's but gambits will still be the base for a warden.

So if he states that, he must have ideas in wich will change for U6, also U5 is being released very soon, i think their just fixing bugs now, not adding content or doing bigger changes.

MT

Orion stated that wardens will be somewhere in between champs and minis regarding tanking.

Or have i just mistaken cause we're already in between there so no need a revamp tbh?

Originally Posted by MeLoWaR

Orion stated that wardens will be somewhere in between champs and minis regarding tanking.

Or have i just mistaken cause we're already in between there so no need a revamp tbh?

I believe he meant the warden U6 updates would be somewhere between the changes he made for the mini and champ. The mini changes were significantly more game changing that what was done with the champ. Play style and skills were adjusted more for the mini than the champ. Just my guess.

Originally Posted by MeLoWaR

Orion stated that wardens will be somewhere in between champs and minis regarding tanking.

Or have i just mistaken cause we're already in between there so no need a revamp tbh?

well played, sir

myst:
it is obvious, it was joke

Originally Posted by Vilda

well played, sir

myst:
it is obvious, it was joke

Sorry, slow this morning. Full work week after short work week isn't going very well. Sorry for my poor satire detector...

I know about the changes update 5 are bringing and i know we are getting a revamp between what champs and minis got. I played beta on bullroarer and have been keeping up with the warden and bullroarer forums daily. This post was simply to ask Orion about those update 6 Revamps if he can share them yet.

Brace yourselves, wardens are going to be able to bubble, your problems will be over.

What if we got some sort of negative bubble. You know, one we reflect on the enemy. Clearly we are just too good at what we do now.

In all seriousness though, either an incoming healing bubble (gambit provides an increase for a set amount of incoming healing, either warden HoTs or external) or something along the lines of x amount of damage done to a mob is returned as healing would be interesting.

Yay for bubbles!

Too. Many. Flashing. Posts. Tonight.

Move along now. Nothing to see here. Just a derail post.

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

I feel confident enough ito talk about a few initial objectives and proposed changes.

1) Three distinct modes of play with a fourth generic mode. (Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS)
2) Battle Preparation (It is being proposed as it sounds.)
3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

This is a teaser only, actual implementation may not reflect any of the aforementioned changes.

Interesting, especially "ranged DPS",.

Battle Preparation sounds most needed.

Originally Posted by Orion

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

I feel confident enough ito talk about a few initial objectives and proposed changes.

1) Three distinct modes of play with a fourth generic mode. (Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS)
2) Battle Preparation (It is being proposed as it sounds.)
3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

This is a teaser only, actual implementation may not reflect any of the aforementioned changes.

Sounds very interesting, Orion.

Originally Posted by Orion

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

Tingles in anticipation!

Originally Posted by Orion

3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

Cowers in fear :P

Originally Posted by Orion

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

I feel confident enough ito talk about a few initial objectives and proposed changes.

1) Three distinct modes of play with a fourth generic mode. (Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS)
2) Battle Preparation (It is being proposed as it sounds.)
3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

This is a teaser only, actual implementation may not reflect any of the aforementioned changes.

Cannot thank you enough for sharing the thoughts! Battle Preparation is probably the most needed of these. i could care less if our dps stays horrible as long as i get to tank as efficiently as others again! (although the dps adds will be nice!) One more question and ill be satisfied. Battle Preparation- sounds like it will be a clickable trained skill that lasts the first few seconds of a fight to help with the initial squish factor of large warden pulls. Will it simply get all or some of our avoidances up? I know all of this is subject to change and none may never make it to the final cut of update 6. just hearing the initial ideas makes this warden's faith increase in the future of the class. I still play mine and tank raids but its not as much fun as it used to be for me just due to the fact that we are sub par. Been holding out faith that you will resolve our issues and hearing the preliminary ideas just builds my faith more.
/signed. - A warden who is becoming increasingly more excited with each post you give us of your changes

Originally Posted by Orion

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

I feel confident enough ito talk about a few initial objectives and proposed changes.

1) Three distinct modes of play with a fourth generic mode. (Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS)
2) Battle Preparation (It is being proposed as it sounds.)
3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

This is a teaser only, actual implementation may not reflect any of the aforementioned changes.

But let's get one thing straight: WE ARE A TANK CLASS. Right now, we can't tank, and we don't need another DPS class in this game yet atm that's all we can do. I, like many here, play this game only for the warden, for end game, and for pvmp, because all the other classes and game content is too simple and got old in the first week.
However, IF after U6 we can tank (and, hey, IF there is actually some content in this game to run and that needs a tank?), and IF are other play styles are at least ENJOYABLE (read: not PRIMARY), people like me will continue to stay, or will come back to LOTRO who have left because their class they have devoted 2 months to of play time (e.g. me) has been trash since RoI. Also... I hope 3 does not mean we can only use some of our masteries some of the time, e.g. when traited right.

Originally Posted by Erasluindor

Battle Preparation- sounds like it will be a clickable trained skill that lasts the first few seconds of a fight to help with the initial squish factor of large warden pulls. Will it simply get all or some of our avoidances up?

My current intent is to have it allow the use gambit builders while out of combat to front load a Gambit - in much the same way that Battle Memory stores a gambit for later. This would not be combat permanent (you would not be in combat after all) but the effect would last for an amount of time that would get you to use a Gambit at the outset of a fight...

Revisions to Gambits will make them more likely to boost your efficacy in combat.

Originally Posted by duamarth

But let's get one thing straight:

Okay, let's...

Originally Posted by duamarth

WE ARE A TANK CLASS.

Correct. Hence the reason that I have it listed first. Tank is your primary role. The other two are secondary.

Originally Posted by duamarth

Right now, we can't tank, and we don't need another DPS class in this game yet atm that's all we can do. I, like many here, play this game only for the warden, for end game, and for pvmp, because all the other classes and game content is too simple and got old in the first week.

There is a difference between can't and are not as effective as other tank classes. Saying "can't" is an overstatement of truth.

Originally Posted by duamarth

However, IF after U6 we can tank (and, hey, IF there is actually some content in this game to run and that needs a tank?), and IF are other play styles are at least ENJOYABLE (read: not PRIMARY), people like me will continue to stay, or will come back to LOTRO who have left because their class they have devoted 2 months to of play time (e.g. me) has been trash since RoI. Also... I hope 3 does not mean we can only use some of our masteries some of the time, e.g. when traited right.

3 Means exactly that - If I do this right - it will make perfect sense to do that.

Originally Posted by Nimyavewe

At the moment they're working on Update 5, I can't imagine you'll hear anything from them about 6 anytime soon...

I stand corrected...

Originally Posted by Orion

3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.
[and]
3 Means exactly that - If I do this right - it will make perfect sense to do that.

While I fear that most ppl of the Warden community will be frightened to read about this =/ , I sincerely hope to get rid of this crutch.
Looking forward to a class that does not need this crutch anymore, but is potent/good/effective enough even w/o masteries.
That way the warden class could finally go back to a state where choosing which skills to use in what situation is important/in the players hand and does not simply need to spam as much gambits as possible all the time

...

There is just 1 huge downside to your teaser:
Soooooooo much time to kill until Update 6 will hit the servers next year ^^;

Originally Posted by Nimyavewe

I stand corrected...

Were it any other dev i would have agreed and probably never asked for any ideas posted. Orion has been good about checking the forums (daily i think as often as he replies to us) and communicating with us.

Originally Posted by Orion

3 Means exactly that - If I do this right - it will make perfect sense to do that.

Does this mean building and executing gambits like Conviction on the move is out the window?

As it stands, Conviction-kiting is something that wardens actually do excel at. If I'm reading this right, it seems like that won't be possible if this change is implemented.

This could also have potential implications in PvMP, as building gambits without targets drastically increases our effectiveness.

Originally Posted by Orion

There is a difference between can't and are not as effective as other tank classes. Saying "can't" is an overstatement of truth.

This is true.. As ineffective as a warden is right now i have successfully tanked everything in RoI. I have great healers in my kin including an HoH cappy who i always have by my side when tanking anything. between the mini and the cappy i do not have too many problems tho i find it frustrating that i need 2 full time healers. My kin still thinks of me as a tank and still frequently ask me to tank things. At first in RoI the guards would rather tank but many of them have been busy lately.
...
As long as our threat generation stays on top of everyone else along with the update 6 fixes to our tankyness ill be happy! i love when guards force taunt out of frustration cause they cant get aggro any other way. Been traiting Defiant Challenge lately just to rub salt in the wound. I steal the force taunt back immediately so they look even worse in comparison. without constant heals from the mini/cappy they would get aggro back as soon as i died but this part of the post isnt about survivability its about being top threat.

Originally Posted by Orion

3 Means exactly that - If I do this right - it will make perfect sense to do that.

Hmm... like others seem to be, I'm a bit nervous about this last one(the other two sound awesome). Although I think the time I need the masteries the most is the beginning of the fight... which it sounds like is being taken care of with battle preparation.

Also I would like you to consider again changing the skill and power trait to reduce the cooldown of hampering javelin instead of shield-piercer. It makes more sense to me to have our melee skills reduce the cooldown of a skill that helps us stay in melee, instead of reducing the cooldown on a non-stacking debuff that already has a skill that removes the cooldown(minstrel's song of aid). I remember before RoI you said you were "on the fence" about this but I'm really just hoping you forgot about it :P

Not going to lie, kinda scared at first glance at #3. But, i know you have some good reasons Orion for even mentioning this early considering the chaos that has been the warden community lately. Looking forward to getting the warden back on track!

I am not even certain that I know what #3 means. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Originally Posted by cmal

I am not even certain that I know what #3 means. Anyone care to enlighten me?

If I understand it properly it means that all masteries will not be available at all times - you'll have certain masteries available depending on how you're traited.

Originally Posted by duamarth

because all the other classes and game content is too simple and got old in the first week.

Some people have a really overinflated opinion of themselves, don't they.

/rolleyes

Originally Posted by Orion

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

I feel confident enough ito talk about a few initial objectives and proposed changes.

1) Three distinct modes of play with a fourth generic mode. (Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS)
2) Battle Preparation (It is being proposed as it sounds.)
3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

This is a teaser only, actual implementation may not reflect any of the aforementioned changes.

Wow I did not see you posting in this thread Orion. I'm glad you did though, you continue to surprise me with your willingness to share and communicate with us.

#1 and #2 sound awesome, I'm glad you continue to acknowledge tanking as our primary role. More DPS sounds cool, I've always been a proponent of fleshing out our ranged DPS a bit as long as it stays secondary which you affirm. I'm hoping this Battle Preparation is for a certain duration and not just the next Gambit. Getting a SM and a Restoration (could BP allow us to use Gambits that require targets? Interesting options there...) up before the fight even starts would be awesome.

I'll be honest #3 terrifies me. I will remain optimistic for now, you have acknowledged how essential masteries are for game play so I trust that but I really hope there are some other big changes if you are planning on not allowing us to use all our masteries all the time. If we don't need them because of other changes to how we build Gambits, then that's one thing and I'm open to that. However just to be honest it's hard for me since I can't imagine how you would do this (that's why you get the big bucks!) and taking my masteries away from me right now would make me drop the class immediately, and I've never considered it even after the ROI fiasco. In a world of RKs getting to full attunement almost instantly, Champs auto critting right off the bat, 1 second Heartseekers every minute, and Guardians 1-click force taunts (just to name a few) my Gambits already feel slow as molasses sometimes; and I have almost every mastery used at any given moment in combat. I can't imagine how awful it would be to play with slower Gambits, but I'm sure you have something neat and interesting in mind. As long as we don't move backwards in terms of Gambit output (masteries or no masteries this is all that matters), I'm open to it! I trust you know this, it just feels better for me to emphasize it

I'm cautiously optimistic about your proposal regarding this, but you haven't let us down yet so I'm also pretty excited to hear your full ideas. I look forward to your next update, and any further clarification you could give on #3

Originally Posted by Orion

Caveat! Nothing approved yet, so nothing in stone.

I feel confident enough ito talk about a few initial objectives and proposed changes.

1) Three distinct modes of play with a fourth generic mode. (Tank, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS)
2) Battle Preparation (It is being proposed as it sounds.)
3) Masteries are moved into trait set specs.

This is a teaser only, actual implementation may not reflect any of the aforementioned changes.

I'm very impressed that Orion is willing to share with us at this point but I really don't know what #3 means. Some people seem to be interpreting that masteries are only available at certain times... when I first read it, I thought it meant Masteries are part of traits as opposed to being in Way of the Warden...???

Originally Posted by Zed2

I'm very impressed that Orion is willing to share with us at this point but I really don't know what #3 means. Some people seem to be interpreting that masteries are only available at certain times... when I first read it, I thought it meant Masteries are part of traits as opposed to being in Way of the Warden...???

Here's the post you're looking for:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...69#post5851369

Originally Posted by Erasluindor

Were it any other dev i would have agreed and probably never asked for any ideas posted. Orion has been good about checking the forums (daily i think as often as he replies to us) and communicating with us.

Yes he has. Wardens have issues, and things are being done about it because the developer listened. A comparison with certain other class developers with undead names is apposite at this time.

Indeed. But that Turbine decided it was perfectly okay to ignore feedback going back to beta and break a class and leave it broken for - months? a year? who knows how long - was the last straw in a long series of straws for me.

I hope the folks that still trust the company enough to do business with them will finally have functional toons again.

3) if i understand it right, means it, for example: five red traits -> i can use spear mastery, five blue -> shield mastery?

i hope this is joke...

maybe you really want i choose my champ as main?

Originally Posted by Vilda

3) if i understand it right, means it, for example: five red traits -> i can use spear mastery, five blue -> shield mastery?

i hope this is joke...

maybe you really want i choose my champ as main?

If you're going to get upset while we're seeing just the tip of the iceberg that is Orion's proposed revamp, I suggest you don't come back to this thread. There's not going to be much of anything concrete in this thread for awhile, but it's extremely nice of him to interact with us about these changes that are honestly pretty far out (hopefully not too far). He doesn't need to do this, but he's throwing us a bone because we get screwed with ROI.

I would be as upset as you are if he simply took them away in that manner but give him some credit. I think he will introduce a new mechanic or system for building Gambits that will render Masteries semi-obsolete. This would seem to agree with the idea that Orion wants to change the class in a way to where Masteries would not be as essential as they are now:

Originally Posted by Orion

Originally Posted by duamarth

Also... I hope 3 does not mean we can only use some of our masteries some of the time, e.g. when traited right.

3 Means exactly that - If I do this right - it will make perfect sense to do that.

If he does whatever "this" is right, he's suggesting we won't need masteries as much as we do now. I'm as skeptical as anyone else as I rely heavily on masteries, but I feel he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point. If his changes for the class work out how he wants them to, we won't miss the masteries. At least that's how I'm interpreting it. If this results in a step backward in terms of Gambit production I will absolutely quit playing my Warden, something I've never even considered even through this ROI debauchery. I don't think that's going to a problem though because I doubt he would do something like that, it would be a huge step backward for the class.

I hope he gives us more info on this soon, pretty bad cliffhanger to leave us with!

I'm a little nervous about "3", but I can live even in masteriesless world, if released gambit means something. Now even "powerfull" gambits are pretty weak. So we have to make them fast (with masteries) to have any significant effect.

ok, we will see, but i am just saying, i cant imagine it without masteries...

it is what i love on my warden - the playstyle, and its very dependent on it...

i hope, Orion knows what he does...

YAY! thanks Orion!

Good news, i'm extremely hopeful about n° 2 and 3, maybe he wants to buff our gambits so we'll be efficient in combat without the need to spam gambits in our usual rotation (which isn't proactive tanking...but repetitive tanking)

Removing the masteries would mean everyone needs to relearn the class again... really hope we can just keep them. Right now they are essential to reacting semi-fast, without masteries I feel sooo slow.

Ranged DPS... Woohooo I am hoping for a ranged bonus on stances and a legendary javelin trait which also activates JodF. Maybe a new skill that is more spammable so we can actually have a rotation.


But we will see!